"Rising After Redundancy"

tapo

Went to air on RTE 1 Last night

Would be very interested to know your thoughts on this production

p.s I am one of the participants in he show

MrThrifty

Only have seen bits of the show but it seems to have been well made etc. Was trying to watch the whole thing on RTE Player just now but me broadband connection is just too slow. RTE should really have a repeat of this type of programme as a lot of folk would be interested in watching it after hearing from others on Mon about it... Anyway, hope all worked out for ya...

tapo

Thanks for that. There may be a repeat on later in the week for you to check out

shoegirl

I have to say I really warmed to some of the participants more than others.

The concept is nice, but as somebody who is about to be laid off in 4 weeks time I do get an impression that there is an expectation out there that people bend over backwards, perform miracles and change their entire lives in order to just have a job - which I am not sure is entirely fair on either participants or other people watching.

A few months ago I have to say I was less sensitive about the constant portrayal of unemployed folk as "not trying hard enough" to get a job, but I'm really shocked in my workplace where we've people with 2 relatively relevant degrees and many years work experience who cannot even get a callback never mind an interview. Somehow I wonder do we need to educate the rest of the country who are not in this position to understand that lots of people signing rather than making people jump through hoops on public tv.

A second concern I have right now is the sheer number of expensive self-help courses, life coaches, online marketeers etc, who honestly, in many cases are exploiting people who've been shellshocked. I have a number of ex colleagues running courses etc charging 10 times for information you can get out of a book for a small price.

Lastly I hope the programme just doesn't push people towards the route of self-employment which is much harder than people might think, having grown up in a family where this was the norm (stats from the UK show that 80% of self employed people earn average or below average wages). I'm interested to see what routes these take. One of the concerns I have about a lot of these routes is that an impression that career change is easy - I've done it once already and its pretty tough to break through in the early years.

tapo

You are certainly correct in a lot of what you say. I did not begin this programme lightly. I thought long and hard before deciding to go with it.

When you are unemployed for a period of time you will try most things in a bid to just make it work

It is hard work but I hope that there are people out there who are willing to take a risk on people with qualities that could balance with their organisations.

Its time to cross the fingers and toes and get out there and knock on some doors

Thanks for your thoughts

J

william o t

Hi,
Watched the second episode of this programme last night and it seems to be a very well made production. There is a nice build up introducing the participants. They all seem like decent skins!

A few points I would like to make: I dont in my opionion feel the 6 (i think) people are representative of the "typical" unemployed person in this country. I dont belive that the bulk of the 400,000 plus people on the dole are (very attractive!!) 60 year old ladies who appear quite well off. Also, I am not sure sbout the "token" foreign person who now appears on these programmes is necessary either. The self employed IT guy also seems quite well off and in my view not exactly on his last penny( just my opinion!!!)

Barney and the Hotel Sales Guy seems to be the two I, and maybe most people would empathise with. They seem like ordinary people , PAYE workers who just got screwed in this greedy economy.

I really hope the particpants get proper, real jobs that they can pay their bills etc with. It would be lovely for all of us to become Pilots, Artists, Singers, etc but this is the real world.

I am in the real world myself for nearly 15 months ie unemployed so I know how much the situation affects your confidence. I have done the usual nonsense of networking and putting myself out there but the simple fact is if there are no jobs there are no jobs. Companies are cutting costs and hiring people are simply not affordable at the moment. BTW what I mean by jobs are REAL JOBS. Have a look at any job website at the moment and I really dont know who has a hope of getting work ie regulatory affairs specialist???,

Anyways , I wish the 6 particpants all the very best. Its compulsive viewing and its certainly good to see we are not alone in looking for work.

Well done guys!!

tapo

William.

It never ceases to amaze me how perceptive unemployed people can be.
You called it as you see it , and your opinions are close to the mark.

As a participant in the show I can tell you it was not easy but hopefully it will give me a chance to prosper.
I also hope that someone as perceptive as you will not have to wait long before you find a job. Good luck in the hunt,I know how hard it can be

shoegirl

tapo wrote: »

When you are unemployed for a period of time you will try most things in a bid to just make it work

I think you're right there, and this was part of my unease about the show. This company is looking for 1500 euros to 2500 euro for courses and there are people coming out of companies with a good sized redundancy package, having worked many years, who might start to panic after a while and be taken in by course providers. I'm not saying a course like this isn't good, I'm but there seem to be a lot of mickey mouse courses charging hefty prices for people trying to figure out what to do with their lives.

I think the other post about there being very few jobs is unfortunately true. The labour market has massively shrunk and there are a lot of people chasing fewer roles. As I am already starting to discover, its very very tough out there.

I didn't feel anybody on the programme was particularly well off - a lot of people might on the face of it seem to have nice houses etc but you don't know what level of debt might be there or what is really going on behind closed doors. There was just one participant I found really obnoxious but most of them seemed very decent. It would concern me that also graduates are being pushed back to study again. A friend of mine went back a few years ago and only that there are free fees and she was on disability she'd have got no help financially as they will only pay you one grant and fees at that level, unless you fail and wait a certain length of time.

furiousox

I too would be a bit sceptical of the 'life coach' 'workshops' and 'self-help' approach.
Can you tell us how many of the 6 are back in employment tapo?
Good luck to all involved.

Cassiopeia1

I am still on the bench. I have two degrees in separate diciplines (bio science & eng) and have been out of work for a year, despite having 10 years in a med dev company. I have been told my CV is excellent, but I am still unemployed. I would love to see these guys progress, and lets face it if they don't get work with RTE behind them, then there is not much hope for me!

I checked the presenter out and he does not seem to have any qualifications of any description ( at least that he has noted on the 'Harmonics' page). He is well able to talk..but is that it?
Is he going to give them an internal 'Blarney stone' that they can tap into to get a job in Supermacs?
I am just wondering if this show is more about duping us into thinking that there are jobs out there and it's we 'the unemployed' who are the issue.

I have a good group of friends from a broad spectrum of professions and unemployment has hit every sector. I fail to see how changing sector will be productive.

Saviour or spoofer...only time will tell!

seven-iron

Firstly, I dont think this guy is credible. After watching the first couple of episodes, he lacks substance. He is a major spoofer.

I have worked with trainers/career coaches before and this chap come no where close in terms of impact.

Cassiopeia1 puts it better than I can. Also +1 on knowing more about this chaps experience/qualifications.


EDIT: I empathise with the participants, particularly Barney and marketing guy. Im not sure where Noel is going calling himself an entrepreneur though?!

Equanimity

Hi there

I think naturally everyone is different & it's not really fair for us to speculate as to what someone's financial situation may or may not be. If you are not earning money it's a nightmare no matter what background you are from.
Most of us have big mortgages, loans etc. Remember the unemployed person has now changed & could be anyone from any background.

I think the show is very thought provoking myself. I have no experience with life coaches etc. but I think people on the outside can often see more clearly than we can.

From my own experience of unemployment & also discussing with friends who are unemployed, initially you panic but think you will find something else, then when you realise there are no jobs in your industry you start to downgrade if you like - apply for jobs that you never in the past would have dreamed of doing (they pay less, require less qualifications etc.). I did this myself. I was in a highly paid job & have very good qualifications but found myself looking at assembly line work just to get cash in & because there was a higher chance of getting a job like this.

Gradually as all of this happens you are knocking away at your own self confidence & abilities. It's very hard to control & I would imagine all our our job applications begin to diminish in terms of appeal, that we become poor sellers of ourselves. In short I think our lack of confidence begins to show in our applications. And if we don't believe in ourselves how can we expect potential employers to?

Anyhow As we all know it's a very scary place to be. You have two choices; if your industry is badly affected (such as building, architects, bankers etc.) then you really need to re-think things. I have come across people who say 'well I have worked in this industry for years so I am not changing now'. We have to face facts, badly affected industries are going to be this way for a few years to come. So now we have to get inside our own heads to either dig out old passions for other types of work or choose an industry where our existing skills will benefit an employer/company. I don't think a life coach is there to wave a magic wand & ensure employment. I think they can help you to think clearly & see things you could never see before - especially when your head is very clouded in negativity.

What I found interesting about the show was that a lot of the people discovered that they never really liked what they were doing in the first place.

I really did find it thought provoking. It's literally a sink or swim situation & you need to think carefully. You need to weigh up which is more beneficial:
1. Find my true passion & do what ever I need to do (study, borrow money etc.) to do this to earn a living.
2. Find out what skills I have that I can bring (or develop further) to a new industry which is currently hiring.

If you don't look at either, your self confidence will only get worse, & others can see this. You will possibly end up taking up a job that you utterly hate, get paid less than you were used to & most likely back in the same situation in the near future.

I do hope they all end up working. It's a frightening situation & there are an alarming amount of people in the same situation. Once again it's not fair to decide who is entitled to be considered unemployed or in need of help because we all don't know what goes on in other peoples lives!

Oh & one last point which I have raised before. Someone really needs to sort out the recruitment agencies & the way they are operating. I am hearing from so many people & have experienced this myself, all applications are being ignored. to someone who really needs a job this is a cruel way to operate. With modern technology allows these agencies to send auto replies in seconds. A simple reply to say they received the application, a note to say you were not successful in your application etc. Being ignored is not helpful & quite degrading. I often question if a lot of these jobs are actually real. I have heard they can make up jobs to get cv's in so they can approach client's with a lot of candidates - It would explain the being ignored but I hope it's not true!

S

shoegirl

Cassiopeia1 wrote: »

I checked the presenter out and he does not seem to have any qualifications of any description ( at least that he has noted on the 'Harmonics' page). He is well able to talk..but is that it?

[snip]

I am just wondering if this show is more about duping us into thinking that there are jobs out there and it's we 'the unemployed' who are the issue.

Yeah I agree with you on that, but honestly, after discovering a total Gowl I worked with who did nothing at all for 10 months was delivering courses for a fairly well respected provider, I really started questioning how a lot of these "trainers" and "coaches" are screened.

Anyway then I discovered that another guy I worked with was doing all these courses in social marketing, without a single day worked in Sales or marketing before he started doing this. And not even a business qualification that might indicate he'd at least some background in it.

I guess people are not stupid though, and most approach these guys with the same level of cynicism and critical assessment as I would.

As for the Bill Cullenesque perspective that its the unemployed who are the problem - yeah - I can see why some people might have this perspective. There are a lot of people working in highly protected sectors like the public sector who have no idea at all about how insecure it is working in some sectors at the moment - the multinational area truly is facing meltdown in most industries. People have no real idea until it hits them personally. And there are so many people who "got lucky" where jobs are concerned.

I do feel though, that there is a problem with agencies also. I experienced this when I originally made a career change 10 years ago. The problem isn't so much the agencies themselves as the policies of the companies hiring. They are quite happy to allow 10-15 agencies to seek out candidates on their behalf rather than just one, but then penalise candidates who might have their CV in with more than one. Now I think thats unreasonable as the agencies are messing each other and the candidates around. A little more regulation would go a long way.

One thing I found really disturbing was the prices this crowd Harmonics are charging for looking at CVs - 400 euro for 4 hours? Like who outside of professions gets 100 euros an euro? I'll look at your CV and give you feedback for nothing!

The idea of the programme is great but honestly I feel its a bit of a glossy piece of free advertising for Harmonics and other parasites on the back of the scourge of unemployment.

xxlplease

Hi,

It is a pity that Tapo didn't reply to the above posts, especially that he started this thread.

I am also one of the participants of "Rising After Redundancy". I have been really happy with the progress I have made since August 2009 and I am very happy with all my choices, however I actually agree with some of your comments:

1) I think that seven-iron is right saying that John Fitzgerald lacks in substance a little bit. He was far too generic to me and I found it almost impossible to bond with him or trust his judgment of the situation. I suppose it may work in an executive coaching but didn't work for me.

2) Let's not forget that after all it is a TV show and it has been edited accordingly. All you see on the screen are pieces that were choosen carefuly to match the label each of us got at the start of the show.

3) Maybe I was a bit naive to expect more interaction, understanding and involvment from the career coach...These qualities are so important and I hope I will never forget to offer them to my clients.

4) During the 8 month process I mentioned a few times that I needed help with my business set-up and it was a big mistake because all of this was turned against me. I was portraited as a totally confused, lacking in clearance person and never got any really practical help that I was expecting to receive ;(

I can go on and on but it is too late to change anything.
I suppose, despite being sceptical abouth the whole coaching process and the way the programme was edited I have no regrets and I know that it would have taken me probably a bit longer to focus on my interests and stick with my plans if it wasn't for this programme.

I wish you all best of luck!!

P.

tapo

Yes, its a television programme that was made to entertain and inform. I am not 100% happy with the outcome, but am certainly glad that I participated in it.
There have been various comments made by many posters here and most are valid. The recruitment agencies leave a lot to be desired, and unemployment is now felt across all social spectrums

To be honest I don't really care if John Fitzgerald is a qualified Life Coach or not. That is not the real point.
Can he help me get out of the unemployed mindset? Yes is the answer and I will take assistance from wherever it comes
John has been helpful and thoughtful throughout the process of Rising After Redundancy and I thank him for that.

You make the best of all opportunities that come your way and I will certainly be doing that. Unemployment is tough, soul destroying and depressing, but I will make a success of my new career and so should everyone else reading this post

Good to hear from you P , and I hope that all your dreams come through

nmoran

Wow lads, its very interesting to hear from people who have actually been on the programme. My gf and I have been watching with interest, like a lot of people she is looking to change careers has loads of ideas that she would like to pursue but there is the little matter of the mortgage! Its easy to say I love Interior Design I think I will set up a company or I love baking think I will open a cafe, saying it is the easy part.

We started watching the programme thinking that it might give an insight into how to go about changing careers in a realistic way, but at this point in the series it looks like 5 honest hard-working people following their dreams without getting any useful guidance from the guy who is supposed to be directing them. I havent heard John Fitzgerald say anything beyond simplistic platitudes. There seems to be no direction, no process, no plan just 'follow your dream' oh and 'add value' while you are at it. I cant believe they charge 400 quid for looking at your cv, I heard him on with Lucy and Colm on 2FM saying that cvs are not important!! If I recall correctly he said he had never done an interview in his life either!!!! It just goes to show that in every crisis there is money to be made and thats what it seems to me your man is at. What happens if your passion is juggling, what if you cant be the best at it and what if there is nowhere to add value! The guy is selling dreams but people are looking for reality. Looking at this site I wonder too about his qualifications and experience there doesnt seem to be any mention of any.

I will watch the rest of the programme with interest, I know the participants are probably prevented from saying anything about the outcome so I wont ask! I would hate to be on a programme like this myself as the editing like you say xxlplease is almost never going to show the full story. I thought you all come across as very capable, ambitious and determined people and I admire you for following what you want in a career, its not easy and I hope your efforts are rewarded.

niamh_snap

Tapo and xxlplease,


I have been watching this show with interest and was hoping it would be a good news story, unfortunately, so far I am not impressed. This so called Career Coach enjoys smiling at the camera, and waffling - I think he is in this for himself and promoting his business . From what I can see he has not done anything positive for anyone that their good friend, sister or brother, aunt or uncle could not have done. No one seems to have a plan for the future, so far the entire programme is about exploring options, I would have thought this could have been done in the first month. I think this guy is a major spoofer. I agree with 'nmoran', it looks like whatever idea anybody comes up with this guy tells them it is a great idea and encourages them to pursue it, no reality testing happening at all.

Tapo, I think it is important that the coach is qualified, he needs to have training in how to deal with the different emotions and problems that may arise. If he is not qualified, how can he coach you to take the right direction. People are at their most vulnerable when they lose their jobs, if the coach is not qualified he might do more harm than good. I really felt sorry for the Barney guy during one of the episodes when he had bad memories of his childhood, I don’t think he was helped much by the coach. I also think the coach treats the participants as if they were children

Xxlplease, I am not surprised you didn’t bond well with the coach, he seemed to be patronising you a lot during the programme. I would have thought that a Business Coach or some other qualified professional would have been brought in to help you when you decided to set up a business. Was RTE saving money or is the coach a Business Coach as well??

I do agree also that Recruitment Agencies need to cop on. I have heard some awful stories over the past number of years about they advertising fictitious jobs on their sites as they try to steal clients from their competitors by attracting in good candidates. Also, I believe Recruitment Agencies are now going into career coaching,etc as they have no recruitment business at the moment. God help anybody who ends up in their greedy, unethical hands. I see this guy John Fitzgerald has a Recruitment Agency also, I wonder what else he is into – ‘Jack (John) of all Trades’? I have to agree with’ shoegirls’ parting shot.

Tapo and xxlplease, I hope you begin to earn soon, I too spent some time unemployed and I know how difficult it can be.

xxlplease

Thanks lads for your support!

Good to hear your opinions about the programme.

nmoran

If Barney wasn't a target himself but was playing the x Factor-type sympathy card by letting people assume he was an abuse victim at school, then it's a clever but cheap reality programme trick.

Doobiyus - I think its extremely unfair to speculate about a person like that and I would add that the programme is not a competition like X-Factor, but a show where people are trying to change their careers for the better. From what I saw no play was made for public approval by anyone, just refreshing honesty.

furiousox

Doobiyus wrote: »

How do you know the Coach didn't give Barney advice with his childhood trauma at school but it ended up on the cutting room floor, like xxlplease talked about? But what I really wonder is when Barry said "experiences he witnessed", what did he mean?. I had a look at it again on the rte player. It is so ambiguous, like something a politician would say. I don't know where Barney went to school but in the CBS every schoolboy was a "witness" to abuse "experiences" (some wicked stuff happened as I know too well) but didn't actually "experience" the abuse. If Barney wasn't a target himself but was playing the x Factor-type sympathy card by letting people assume he was an abuse victim at school, then it's a clever but cheap reality programme trick.

That's unfair, it's not a popularity competition so what's he got to gain by pretending?
You could clearly see how uncomfortable he was talking about the subject.

Doobiyus

But you think it's fair to diss the Coach, his business, his qualifications and his methods. Everyone knows he has an agenda for making the show. Deal with it. If he has an agenda likewise the participants. I'm sure they didn't agree to let the world into their lives just to make comfy viewing for you on a Sunday night. If you want to be an Actress what better opportunity ???

furiousox

Doobiyus wrote: »

But you think it's fair to diss the Coach, his business, his qualifications and his methods. Everyone knows he has an agenda for making the show. Deal with it. If he has an agenda likewise the participants. I'm sure they didn't agree to let the world into their lives just to make comfy viewing for you on a Sunday night. If you want to be an Actress what better opportunity ???

Where did I say "it's fair to diss the coach, his business, his qualifications and his methods" ??
You made an assumption about Barney which I disagreed with, that's all I said.

nmoran

But you think it's fair to diss the Coach, his business, his qualifications and his methods.

I think it is fair to question someone who sets himself up as an expert. Anyway there are a couple of episodes to go so maybe it will all come good, we'll have to wait and see.

As for the participants as I said earlier they all seem to me to be just people trying to make the best of their careers I didnt see any other agenda.

xxlplease

2 years ago I was contacting various recruitment agencies. I was then approached by the consultant working for one of them. She rang me and simply asked why do I want to change my job, I said: I learnt all I could possibly learn and would like to move on, challenge myself a little bit more, her response was: "Don't you think that you need better reason for considering moving jobs in recession?" I told her not to ring me again.

Agencies can be an expensive obstacle between employers and employees I am afraid.

Doobiyus

Apologies to whoever it was, furious something. I was refering to the general theme in this pathetic thread. My excuse is I watch TV for a living. Before I go any further Furious whatever and the rest, what's your excuse for watching such a dull, contived and totally disinteresting production? I've seen better wedding videos.

furiousox

Doobiyus wrote: »

Apologies to whoever it was, furious something. I was refering to the general theme in this pathetic thread. My excuse is I watch TV for a living. Before I go any further Furious whatever and the rest, what's your excuse for watching such a dull, contived and totally disinteresting production? I've seen better wedding videos.

No problem dubiyuss, I watched the programme as I was made redundant myself so I felt the programme was relevant to my own situation.

boscohead

Doobiyus wrote: »

Apologies to whoever it was, furious something. I was refering to the general theme in this pathetic thread. My excuse is I watch TV for a living. Before I go any further Furious whatever and the rest, what's your excuse for watching such a dull, contived and totally disinteresting production? I've seen better wedding videos.

If you're just going for the most provoking comment of the board award Doobiyus then well done, otherwise you're the most condescending twat I've come across in a while. Let me guess, you're one of those who think if they really want to work there's work there for them. Or are you just missing the sensationalism of every TV reviewers dream, i.e. anything produced by Simon Cowell or spin-off there from. Regardless of what might have been left on the cutting room floor, the participants just express a lot of the thoughts and emotions that people go through having been made redundant. And yes I am in the same position myself despite 8 years experience with 2 multinationals and a degree.

Of course the programme isin't perfect but fair play to all the participants for putting themselves up there. I agree that it's easier to sympathise with some more then others but I think that has a lot to do with being able to identify with their situations to a greater extent, it doesn't mean their stories aren't genuine. As for the comment above questioning the relevance of having a foreign national on the show, what godforsaken hilltop village have you been living in for the last 15 years? She's obviously been living in Ireland for a long time, why should her story and experiences be any less relevant?

tapo

Doobiyus - Christ I am sorry to hear that you have the difficult task of watching T.V for a living. I fully understand that the show is not perfect. Show me a documentary that is.

The show gave each of its participants an opportunity to confront the difficulties that come with being unemployed and try to make a fresh start. I will also state that the programme was made in a very considerate fashion and at no time were the participants intentionally harranged.

Nobody forced us to sign up to this process and I for one am glad that I took the opportunity
Just watch the last two episodes and see how it all works out, but bear in mind that as in life it's not all about happy endings

If that were the case I would now be up in Montrose sitting in Ryan Tubridy's chair trying to set the world to rights

shoegirl

tapo wrote: »

To be honest I don't really care if John Fitzgerald is a qualified Life Coach or not. That is not the real point.
Can he help me get out of the unemployed mindset? Yes is the answer and I will take assistance from wherever it comes
John has been helpful and thoughtful throughout the process of Rising After Redundancy and I thank him for that.

I guess that is true but honestly (and its not targetted at John Fitzgerald) but 2900 euros is a hell of a lot of money for somebody on welfare and even if I was in a job, I'd expect something for that!

Hell, a full diploma from the Open University in Systems Thinking cost me less than that!!

I am concerned at people I know who are not really competent delivering expensive courses under various brands and labels without their clients knowing it. Thats all.

That said, I think this kind of development would be useful if it could be developed, cost free, for people who are out of work for a few months and not really getting anywhere. I just don't think people who are already on their uppers should be milked because they are desperate.

The tough thing is that Irish society is really only coming to terms with full employment no longer being the norm, and high salaries being relatively accessible. Thats a sea change.

They actually used to have a whole service running inside the DWP in the UK as part of the New Deal where after 13 or 26 weeks depending on your circumstances they would assign you a dedicated adviser who could help you through all the options available to you. I think it would be helpful if something like this was available in Ireland. Some friends of mine who found it hard to get work found it useful. A kind of one-stop-shop really.

Not everybodies circumstances are the same and its particularly striking that there isn't really a lot of thought out there anymore for people who are maybe fresh out of college in non vocational courses - or industries that are practically wiped out.

shoegirl

nmoran wrote: »

I think it is fair to question someone who sets himself up as an expert. Anyway there are a couple of episodes to go so maybe it will all come good, we'll have to wait and see.

As for the participants as I said earlier they all seem to me to be just people trying to make the best of their careers I didnt see any other agenda.

Absolutely! This is exactly my point.
To me the programme seems like a glossy ad for Harmonics. Now surely advertising would have been cheaper - but less effective.

Future Proof Your Career and Financial Future Programme Programme Cost - €2,900 + Vat @ 21%
(NB I see the VAT man found him)
Career Health Check Programme Programme Cost - €1,500 + Vat @ 21% "This intervention is primarily focussed on career decision making. The programme involves 10 hours of one-to-one coaching sessions over a 2 month period with an accredited career coach to ensure individuals make the right decisions on their career choices."

For individuals seeking CV preparation and Interview skills preparation we offer a programme of 2 x 2 hour one-to-one coaching sessions with an accredited career coach.
Cost per 2 hour session: €300 + VAT @ 21% - looks like prices have been reduced (obviously read my criticism)

(Seriously though - I WILL read your CV and tell you what I think for FREE!!)

Here is a link to the New Deal programme - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Jobseekers/programmesandservices/DG_173717

Something like that could be really helpful in Ireland, especially for people who are trying to change careers.

Did change career around 10 years ago - agencies were helpful and unhelpful. In the end I did get a job through one. I couldn't afford to retrain so that wasn't an option (I was still working part time in my old role). I found it difficult to get through to employers that I had gone as far as I could in my old career - they seemed to think I wasn't really serious. I was applying for totally entry level positions, honestly, I probably would have been better off had I never worked a day in my life. People make stupid assumptions about you based things you've previously done. The challenge is to try to steer potential employers away from that. That can be difficult if you did achieve a lot but you don't want them to read incorrectly into it that you are "moody" because you previously had a "creative" career etc. That is hard to do.

aoifefc

This much hyped programme is a major diappointment .Unfortunately after 5 months working with John Fitzgerald no one of the unemployed programme participant has a full time job or have successfully set up a business/self employed ! THE COMPLETE LACK OF TANGIBLE RESULTS SPEAK FOR IT SELF. If I paid 2,000-3,000 euros I would expect to get a job.

I think that Cassiopeia 1's revelation is very worrying - "I checked the presenter out and he does not seem to have any qualifications of any description ( at least that he has noted on the 'Harmonics' page). He is well able to talk..but is that it?"

It is quite shocking to hear from a programme participant say she felt that John Fitzgerald "lacked substance ". I suppose what else can you expect if you do not have the qualifications.

Would you or I even entertain the idea of allowing a person with no qualification perform a life saving operation like heart surgery ?

How can RTE let a self syled Career Coach with NO QUALIFICATIONS loose on vulnerable unemployed people ???

shoegirl

Very curious after watching tonights programme.
Having looked at most of the episodes (had trouble with one which RTE player skipped around on), I'm seeing 3 things:

- lots of diagrams - rich pictures, mind maps, causal diagrams
- selective use of a little psychology - the "PAC" stuff is straight out of Eric Berne's Games People Play which is a study of the area of transactional analisys - this does pop up in courses from time to time
- some effort to get results but also a lot of soft focus on general improvement

From this I am guessing that the coach has either done a formal course and not finished it, or has done a crash course (somebody with a full practictioners diploma in problem solving, systems practice or applied psychology would already be into self-evaluation as you do get trained to actually reflect on the process itself as a means of evaluation, certainly if you learn VSM or SSM - this is why I reckon he's got a short course in one of the above). Its a start and not unhelpful but I did feel he was opening people up to ideas and letting them develop ideas that were not unique and so difficult to put into practice either because others are covering the same territory or there are serious barriers.

For example he started to question the lady with the acting ambitions financial plans after 2 months of allowing her to put into practice a plan to get into acting - surely evaluation of feasible plans should have been done earlier than this? It seems like his ideas are broadly ok, but he's not leading the participants to critically evaluate ideas and get broad feedback at an earlier stage - to me this does smack of somebody whose got an outline of some problem solving methodology but not a complete grasp.

It might be unfair on some participants since the idea is, after all, to lead away from redundancy and towards paid work.

One thing I did find worrying was that he keeps pushing people to "follow their dreams" - sorry but but start trying to make a living from your passion in life and your heart ends up broken - even you make some success of it you eventually realise that its just a job. That is some passion killer. Anybody who thinks otherwise I dare to prove their point - unless of course, your passion in life is for management accountancy, open heart surgery or assessing insurance claims. Honestly. Read http://gapingvoid.com/books/. 25% of the book is up there for free - go to number 7 - "keep your day job" and "The Sex and Cash theory." Great stuff and I got to say I agree.

Bit disturbing that after several months there is really a bit of derailing going on for some of the participants. Maybe a more business focus evaluating the ideas and looking at barriers to entry and ways to overcome would be useful. Or maybe taking the participants ideas and trying to match them to something more commercial?

The poor deluded lady looking to earn 150k as an actress kinda says it all. This kind of mindset should have been questioned earlier on in the process.

nmoran

Well I said I would reserve judgement about the whole process until the programme is over next week, but I will make some observations on last nights episode and as I said before I have nothing but admiration for the people who have signed up and are trying to make a living from their passion.

I really felt sorry for Noel and that he was treated unfairly. John Fitzgerald seemed to be visiting him with the message 'you are being childish', he called him narky and accused him of putting in 'digs' in emails. Not very encouraging at this late stage in the process and not very professional. Noels whole career change seems to revolve around getting a suitable site, getting a site is only the beginning of the battle, making it a reality and then making money from it is a whole other story. There has been no help for him in terms of finance, busines planning and checking the viability of his plan. Its as if John Fitzgerald was beginning to shift the blame to Noel which I think is very unfair.

People came to him looking for guidance and expertise, they were promised career change. He has sold them the dream of working and being successful at what they are passionate about. That is an extremely appealing prospect for anyone, but now as we approach the end of the 'project' as they call it no one seems to be anywhere near having a job or a career in a new area. I think reality is beginning to set in and having being told to follow their dreams and their passions people are now being given a sudden reality check. Reality should have been a thread running through the process from the very beginning. Presenting participants with a euro symbol and a question mark at this point is a bit simplistic I think. 'So now you have a dream, how are you going to turn it into gold?', its like something a parent would say to an 18 year old who want to join a band rather than go to college. Asking them how are you going to make money? How much does an actress make? Where is the first 50k going to come from and the second 50k and the 3rd? He should have seen it coming, he should have kept thing realistic all along. Now it looks like he is just going to have built people up for them to be let down, and he seems to be blaming them for being unrealistic.

It still amazes me that there has been nothing about CVs or interviews or job-hunting, but what do I know!! Anyway its been a very interesting programme I have to say, these people are trying to do what most people would love to do i.e. get a career that they are passionate about and I wish them the very best in their attempts.

by the way shoegirl your posts seems bang on the money to me. But we will have to wait and see next week now things turn out.

danbohan

aoifefc wrote: »

This much hyped programme is a major diappointment .Unfortunately after 5 months working with John Fitzgerald no one of the unemployed programme participant has a full time job or have successfully set up a business/self employed ! THE COMPLETE LACK OF TANGIBLE RESULTS SPEAK FOR IT SELF. If I paid 2,000-3,000 euros I would expect to get a job.

I think that Cassiopeia 1's revelation is very worrying - "I checked the presenter out and he does not seem to have any qualifications of any description ( at least that he has noted on the 'Harmonics' page). He is well able to talk..but is that it?"

It is quite shocking to hear from a programme participant say she felt that John Fitzgerald "lacked substance ". I suppose what else can you expect if you do not have the qualifications.

Would you or I even entertain the idea of allowing a person with no qualification perform a life saving operation like heart surgery ?

How can RTE let a self syled Career Coach with NO QUALIFICATIONS loose on vulnerable unemployed people ???

we have 500k unemployed here , many with loads qualifications , qualifications are very very necessary and useful in many situation but they are not be all and end all , Ireland of today is hung up on qualifications and missing what is really needed which is entrepreneurial spirit and ability , that's the only thing will get us out of this mess .
this coach may or may not be qualified , does it matter , him having a PHD in whatever would still make him a spoofer and a lightweight.

shoegirl

danbohan wrote: »

we have 500k unemployed here , many with loads qualifications , qualifications are very very necessary and useful in many situation but they are not be all and end all , Ireland of today is hung up on qualifications and missing what is really needed which is entrepreneurial spirit and ability , that's the only thing will get us out of this mess .
this coach may or may not be qualified , does it matter , him having a PHD in whatever would still make him a spoofer and a lightweight.

So I guess you'd rather be operated on by a witch doctor than an accredited surgeon so?

Ireland is not hung up on qualifications. The majority of people with 3rd level qualifications at all levels work in a field other than that they studied, often alongside people with no PLC qualification. Entrepeneurial spirit existed - in property speculation, banking and half hearted light touch regulation - look what we got in return. Plus 25% of the population is funtionally illiterate. Hardly a nation "hung up on qualifications."

What we need is measured risk taking and good business planning.

The coach initially promised this group either a job or support in starting a business. He achieved neither so far. Its disturbing as many people manage to start businesses without going to guys like this for support.

If it is a dressed up glossy ad for this agency, its not a very promising one.

d'NObodyspecial

All of the comments here I think are completely valid, but I also believe that you have to take a look at the bigger picture. What would these 5 candidates be doing if they weren't on the show? How would their lives be different 6 months ago to today? Some comments here suggest a giving of false hope and that their ambitions to change their lives may be futile. Well, in all honesty if you don't try how the hell would you know? Sure the market is down & jobs are scarce & plenty are in the same position - like myself - but it's the mentality that you have to keep moving in order to progress TOWARDS something. Cynically speaking you could say 'towards nothing', but what do you have to gain in your life from being too pessimistic at a time when change is desperately needed in this country. I agree that the programs in place here in Ireland are a bit lax when it comes to supporting people on a 1-to-1 level like the UK. Don't get me started on FAS. Having said that though...you also have to ask - what kind of 1-to-1 support are they receiving? How qualified are they to give such personal assistance? The grass may look a bit greener, but even in that sense they still won't be able to get you a job. I don't think John (the presenter) has all the answers - he's even put himself in the spotlight giving away "his" ideas/advice for free to all us viewers. I'm not about to go & pay the man for any services, but I'd at least like to thank him for his opinions/advice. I mean, do you think that someone like me could even afford a career coach right now when I can barely afford rent? We've got several qualified people in this country (scientists, engineers, artisans, etc.) and I truly believe that these people could be a force for change around the globe (ie. replace fossil fuels with biodegradable renewable energies) if they had investors backing them. Well, maybe John's right about not just trying to apply for the open vacancy, but to approach a company & create a job where there isn't one with the idea is to bring money to the company by 'adding value'. I've applied to several IT companies here & have had only 1 interview in almost 18 months. That plays pretty harshly on the human psyche especially when people say that your CV is excellent. It would be much better for everyone to avoid the depression of unemployment & keep working on ideas to increase your potential.

boneym

Many interesting views and, rightly, many different views but Doobiyus must not be anywhere near the age of Barney and must have no experience of schooling as it was then. It was difficult, it wasn't an option for most to stay on at school as the necessity was for many to leave school early and pay towards the family/house although I watched the programme and do not recall Barney detailing 'abuse'. What I took from it was that school was a hard/tough time, likely made difficult by the tutors (brothers!) and that it was a regret for Barney that he never got the opportunity to go on to further education, as is now the norm.

I think a few of the participants have made good progress with taking stock, looking at where their interests lie and exploring possible career opportunities in those areas. If it doesn't lead to a career for them, hell they had fun trying, meanwhile I dare say they have continued to put in cv's in their areas of experience and expertise.

Doobiyus, trust and hope that all your life experiences are wonderful and continue to be and if not, hope I never have to see you on a tv programme!!!!

BoneyM

Kazbah

I watched the series and I agree with a lot of the comments about the 'process' on here. It's very interesting to see J and Ps input! I think the participants have not really been harmed in any way by taking part bar maybe Noel who was not portrayed particularly well. A lot of that is editing though and I completely agree that John did not appear to guide him very well.

He seemed to encourage him to run around looking for a site like a bluearsed fly and then sat back and took potshots at him. There seemed to be no mention of significant market research or for Patrica either. Both businesses require customers with disposable income the feasibility of which seemed like it warranted further investigation in this day and age!

The follow your dream approach was a total disappointment to be. I can't believe they didn't look at what industries/areas there is a demand for people in. There did not appear to be any connection to reality. All in all I found it pretty disappointing in practical terms but entertaining in its own right as a piece of television.

shoegirl

Kazbah wrote: »

I watched the series and I agree with a lot of the comments about the 'process' on here. It's very interesting to see J and Ps input! I think the participants have not really been harmed in any way by taking part bar maybe Noel who was not portrayed particularly well. A lot of that is editing though and I completely agree that John did not appear to guide him very well.

He seemed to encourage him to run around looking for a site like a bluearsed fly and then sat back and took potshots at him.

Yeah, I got that impression too, but more so I felt that Noel's case was a genuinely difficult case that exposed the lack of depth of the approach.

In all honesty, if you get somebody in who hasn't got a leaving cert, or who has worked all their life in an industry that no longer exists, there is really only one option and that is back to education. So Barney wasn't really a huge challenge.

Kazbah wrote: »

There seemed to be no mention of significant market research or for Patrica either. Both businesses require customers with disposable income the feasibility of which seemed like it warranted further investigation in this day and age!


The follow your dream approach was a total disappointment to be. I can't believe they didn't look at what industries/areas there is a demand for people in. There did not appear to be any connection to reality. All in all I found it pretty disappointing in practical terms but entertaining in its own right as a piece of television.

I felt the same criticism of his approach for both marketing/radio guy, Patricia and the lady who wanted to act. It seemed very obvious in all 3 cases that there were several what I'd call "side options" - related career moves that would satisfy their need to like what they do or at least bring them a little closer AND make some bit of a living. For example it seemed very obvious to me early on that a little bit of teaching drama would hugely help the lady with that interest without harming her greater ambitions.

Same for Patricia - her meeting with the specialist DID reveal a lot I thought, and felt this was glossed over. There are a lot of moves that she could have made - from working in retail fashion, for photographers or on the alternate, a little training in nutrition or counselling would make a break into one of many diet management schemes, where there is lots of work and a lot of what she'd learned was usable.

As for radio - was it also not obvious that local radio isn't rolling in cash right now? And lots of people doing voluntary shows also for various purposes.

I'd be interested in revisiting the group in a years time to see how things went.

I really felt he'd only managed to make things much worse for Noel in the end. I had to say I agreed with Noel's wifes feelings. Again a "sideline" move could have been made of this - there are lots of related areas in leisure that could have been explored. And consider that Noel's current business is struggling to survive as it is.

The danger of "following your dream" is that you can end up with a "career" made up of several interrelated "sidelines." These eventually start jostling against each other - you get 3 calls for one day but can only do 2 - or deadlines start to clash, etc. With unpredictable patterns you can end up refusing nothing and overloading yourself. This can end in severe burnout. I don't think any of the participants were prepared for the reality of self employment at all.

xxlplease

Hi Guys,

My name was mentioned here a few times so I just would like to respond briefly.

As you know I come from the country of very high unemployment where having Master's after your name is completely natural and where it is harder to find a good plumber or carpenter than PhD graduate fluent in Chinese and French, obviously I exaggerate slightly but only to make it easy for your to understand my background. I have never had it easy, and despite working part - time and studying full-time I still managed to graduate in the top 5% of best students (I had no choice, that was the condition to get scholarship and to get 25% of my student loan refunded, I was too poor to f....it up .)

I changed jobs so many times already that I have lost the track and I was never recommended by anybody or used any sort of network, it was through honest CVs and interviews. It was hard but I didn't know any other way, it was my reality and I never felt that I was stuck. I was not afraid to get challenged or work on the positions that I was overqualified for, as I believe that life is a learning process.

So for me applying for Rising After Redundancy was more than just hoping to find a job as I have no doubts than sooner or later here or there I would have found employment. I understood that the whole project was about using redundancy as an excuse/opportunity to do something new, something different, something that was in our head but we didn't address it before. (a dream? :-) well, I don't know, I prefer using words interests and plans than dreams ). So ,replying to Shoegirl: I wanted to be self-employed and I know that it is a big challenge but it is impossible to move on without making mistakes, however the pleasure of even trying is priceless.

TV made my new venture sound rather flat, I am not really a style coach or a stylist, I work as body confidence coach with people with impaired body perception. I don't have big interest in fashion as such so retail job as an everyday profession is rather not for me ;-) I am particularly interested in working with young people and plus size individuals and with those whose physical appearance has changed and decreased their self-confidence - this hasn't been mentioned on TV as well, so there is a slight misunderstanding of what I actually do. (Labels, as I described it in my earlier post)

Please don't take it as a stupid cliché and don't feel offended but we really have only one life and I would rather spend it working hard in happiness than working hard for somebody else. So, although, like you all said, all the participants should have been directed better and looked after better I will fight for myself because there are many women out there waiting for my help and because just like 10 years ago I can’t afford to f...it up ;-)

Take care and Good Luck for all of you!

P.

Kazbah

P I think from what was shown on TV Eva gave you good advice when you met her. I think a counselling qualification would really boost the title of a body confidence coach. Do you hope to work on the emotional, underlying reasons why your clients are unhappy with their appearance as well as practically through nutrition/diet etc? One thing is that people with low body confidence have by their very nature low self esteem and may be slow to access resources like a body coach to help. Definitely they may benefit from such a servce but I'm not sure if they would actually sign up!

best of luck with your new venture!

danbohan

xxlplease wrote: »

Hi Guys,

My name was mentioned here a few times so I just would like to respond briefly.

As you know I come from the country of very high unemployment where having Master's after your name is completely natural and where it is harder to find a good plumber or carpenter than PhD graduate fluent in Chinese and French, obviously I exaggerate slightly but only to make it easy for your to understand my background. I have never had it easy, and despite working part - time and studying full-time I still managed to graduate in the top 5% of best students (I had no choice, that was the condition to get scholarship and to get 25% of my student loan refunded, I was too poor to f....it up .)

I changed jobs so many times already that I have lost the track and I was never recommended by anybody or used any sort of network, it was through honest CVs and interviews. It was hard but I didn't know any other way, it was my reality and I never felt that I was stuck. I was not afraid to get challenged or work on the positions that I was overqualified for, as I believe that life is a learning process.

So for me applying for Rising After Redundancy was more than just hoping to find a job as I have no doubts than sooner or later here or there I would have found employment. I understood that the whole project was about using redundancy as an excuse/opportunity to do something new, something different, something that was in our head but we didn't address it before. (a dream? :-) well, I don't know, I prefer using words interests and plans than dreams ). So ,replying to Shoegirl: I wanted to be self-employed and I know that it is a big challenge but it is impossible to move on without making mistakes, however the pleasure of even trying is priceless.

TV made my new venture sound rather flat, I am not really a style coach or a stylist, I work as body confidence coach with people with impaired body perception. I don't have big interest in fashion as such so retail job as an everyday profession is rather not for me ;-) I am particularly interested in working with young people and plus size individuals and with those whose physical appearance has changed and decreased their self-confidence - this hasn't been mentioned on TV as well, so there is a slight misunderstanding of what I actually do. (Labels, as I described it in my earlier post)

Please don't take it as a stupid cliché and don't feel offended but we really have only one life and I would rather spend it working hard in happiness than working hard for somebody else. So, although, like you all said, all the participants should have been directed better and looked after better I will fight for myself because there are many women out there waiting for my help and because just like 10 years ago I can’t afford to f...it up ;-)

Take care and Good Luck for all of you!

P.

good luck to you , i am sure with your desire and hunger you will do well and most importantly enjoy your life

xxlplease

Thanks Danbohan

DT100

I think they were all very brave to go the show in the first place,and I am sure they have learned a lot about themselves.I think one pulled out after the recording of the first programme???...I saw the greatest change in Barney...He found a belief in himself that probably would never have been tapped into,if he was still in the job he had done since 1975.There are many out there now in the same position,and when you hit rock bottom,its hard to believe in anything, never mind yourself.The programme may not cure all their problems,but I think it was a worthwhile exercise to take part in.I wish them all the best.