Design of new "Routemaster" for TfL revealed

schemingbohemia

Looks nice, 3 doors and 2 stairs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8685486.stm

dynamick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuV_FLsmYEQ

3d model

who the fug

Hopefully this will arrive

Ken is still a bastard and any other 4 letter swear words that come to mind

lord lucan

who the fug wrote: »

Hopefully this will arrive

Ken is still a bastard and any other 4 letter swear words that come to mind

Ken who?

Ham'nd'egger

lord lucan wrote: »

Ken who?

I assume he means Ken Livingston.

lord lucan

Hamndegger wrote: »

I assume he means Ken Livingston.

He's not even the mayor anymore!!

Ham'nd'egger

lord lucan wrote: »

He's not even the mayor anymore!!

Maybe his legacy post cedes him to the forgetful voter

who the fug

lord lucan wrote: »

Ken who?

The effer (Ken Livingstone) what got rid of the original Route Master, which makes everyday bus journeys around London a Royal pain in the arse

Why get rid of a bus designed for London, which you have re engine to extend its life for another 20 years (and the punters like them), and replace them with a bendy bus. (He still in shock about getting kicked out at the last election)

dynamick

It was part of Boris Johnson's election campaign that he would replace bendy buses with routemasters.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411785-scrap-the-bendy-bus-and-bring-back-routemasters-says-boris.do

lord lucan

who the fug wrote: »

The effer (Ken Livingstone) what got rid of the original Route Master, which makes everyday bus journeys around London a Royal pain in the arse

Why get rid of a bus designed for London, which you have re engine to extend its life for another 20 years (and the punters like them), and replace them with a bendy bus. (He still in shock about getting kicked out at the last election)

The Routemasters were great buses. As you say they were perfect for London. Great craic trying to hop off them if they were still moving. Went arse over tit off the back of one about 6 years ago at Finsbury park.:D

AlekSmart

I have to say I was extremely sceptical of this project when it was announced by Boris Johnson.

However as time has progressed I`m coming around to the view that it actually represents a high profile opportunity for the Bus Engineering Industry to actually attempt something innovative for a change.

I`m unsure as to whether the U-Tube version is a Wrightbus proposal or a generic design but it ain`t half bad ?

This one may well develop legs yet !!

BenShermin

It would be nice to see that bus with a yellow and blue livery:cool:.

Ham'nd'egger

who the fug wrote: »

The effer (Ken Livingstone) what got rid of the original Route Master, which makes everyday bus journeys around London a Royal pain in the arse

Why get rid of a bus designed for London, which you have re engine to extend its life for another 20 years (and the punters like them), and replace them with a bendy bus. (He still in shock about getting kicked out at the last election)

Open decked buses have been phased out in virtually every market for several reasons;

• They are not accessible for wheelchair users and others with lesser mobility.
• They pose a safety risk to people boarding and alighting whilst on the move.
• They require a two man crew to operate.
• Front engined buses generally have a better centre of gravity. They also carry slightly more passengers than front engined buses of similar length.
• Their overall integral design is being supported by bus builders less and less as bus companies have opted for front engined designs for the reasons listed above so rear engined models are costlier to build given these general constraints need to be overcome.

That said, I prefer rear engined buses for sheer classiness.

murphaph

So London is moving to 3 door double deckers while Dublin has committed itself to 1 door ones...stupid mofos. This "routemaster" looks suspiciously like a Berlin DD tbh:

who the fug

Hamndegger wrote: »

Open decked buses have been phased out in virtually every market for several reasons;

• They are not accessible for wheelchair users and others with lesser mobility.
• They pose a safety risk to people boarding and alighting whilst on the move.
• They require a two man crew to operate.
• Front engined buses generally have a better centre of gravity. They also carry slightly more passengers than front engined buses of similar length.
• Their overall integral design is being supported by bus builders less and less as bus companies have opted for front engined designs for the reasons listed above so rear engined models are costlier to build given these general constraints need to be overcome.

That said, I prefer rear engined buses for sheer classiness.

1. I have yet to see any wheel chair users since the Routemaster went, and I keep asking everybody else and they haven't seen them. Also they had a preferential rate in a black cab

2 Only if you are pissed or stupid , and then that is self inflicted

3. We are paying a subsidy in London for a ***** service, with over manning at every level, the clippy was also a welcome security on late night trips

4. Marginal benefit to me the consumer

5. So they prefer them buses so they can operate a cheaper service with no reduction in the subsidy they claim, tough this what the public wants.


It would be nice to have a transport policy that starts out how to transport me from A to B in cheap comfortable manner. (Which the Routemaster used to do)

Ham'nd'egger

You don't really seem to have taken these points in; clarification time....

who the fug wrote: »

1. I have yet to see any wheel chair users since the Routemaster went, and I keep asking everybody else and they haven't seen them. Also they had a preferential rate in a black cab

I can't speak for London but I assume buses need to allow access for mobility impaired people; those Mum's with buggies also like low floored buses.

2 Only if you are pissed or stupid , and then that is self inflicted

Ask any bus fleet manager how many pissed and stupid people who claim off bus companies over same

3. We are paying a subsidy in London for a ***** service, with over manning at every level, the clippy was also a welcome security on late night trips

Point taken on security but employing a driver only has economy benefits for operators worldwide and buses are trending towards this in all markets.

4. Marginal benefit to me the consumer

Until your bus arrives and you can't board it as it's full:) More seats means more fares for the company and better fleet management in the long term.

5. So they prefer them buses so they can operate a cheaper service with no reduction in the subsidy they claim, tough this what the public wants.

No, subsidies doesn't come into this as it's for it's service operations.

They prefer them as overall they are more economical to design and build given their generic nature over one off or special designs and builds and it's easier for a company to manage their fleet and cheaper to buy and maintain. That's why the average Bus company has a small amount of designs dominating it's fleets with smaller types of buses for specialist/niche services.

who the fug

Hamndegger wrote: »

You don't really seem to have taken these points in; clarification time....

I don't really care what the logic is, all I see is the bus and tube operations companies keep making a profit their fares go up every years, whilst the service gets worse every year.

I am sure they will have made up loads of statistics to prove I am wrong, but ask any one in London and they are not happy.

The return of the Route Master is one small victory, as was Ken getting booted out on his arse.

The current situation in London is about squeezing costs, whilst claiming maximum subsidy whilst screwing over the customer and the employees.


Not going to be logical about this till I stop having to pay high fares and high taxes for a crap service.

Ham'nd'egger

who the fug wrote: »

I don't really care what the logic is, all I see is the bus and tube operations companies keep making a profit their fares go up every years, whilst the service gets worse every year.

I am sure they will have made up loads of statistics to prove I am wrong, but ask any one in London and they are not happy.

The return of the Route Master is one small victory, as was Ken getting booted out on his arse.

The current situation in London is about squeezing costs, whilst claiming maximum subsidy whilst screwing over the customer and the employees.


Not going to be logical about this till I stop having to pay high fares and high taxes for a crap service.

No point in arguing with you on this but it's worth saying that your points are valid.... Just not on a thread about a new bus design

who the fug

Hamndegger wrote: »

No point in arguing with you on this but it's worth saying that your points are valid.... Just not on a thread about a new bus design

Yes I know, but I will post pics the first day these come into service

Run_to_da_hills

What an ugly bloated up monstrosity, its like comparing the New shaped VW Beetle to the original.

Volvo B9's in red are far nicer.

murphaph

who the fug wrote: »

The return of the Route Master is one small victory, as was Ken getting booted out on his arse.

You do realise that this is not a Routemaster and you won't be able to "hop on" the deck plate at the back as the bus is pulling off? ALL THREE access/egress points will have DOORS! Look at the image of this "Routemaster" more carefully: you can clearly see they have just left the doors open in the graphic to make it look like a traditional routemaster. Be assured: modern 'elf an' safety' rules mean a return of a traditional routemaster is never going to happen.

It's a heavily stylised Berlin double decker with an extra door and set of stairs at the back, nothing more! It will provide dwell times similar to a properly operated articulated bus tbh, so I wouldn't get too excited.

lord lucan

You can see the closed rear door in this vid.

Stonewolf

lord lucan wrote: »

You can see the closed rear door in this vid.

In which the guy actually says it's designed to operate on a hop-on hop-off basis where appropriate and with the doors closed where single crew member operation is desired.

lord lucan

Stonewolf wrote: »

In which the guy actually says it's designed to operate on a hop-on hop-off basis where appropriate and with the doors closed where single crew member operation is desired.

In practical terms i can't see the TFL H&S dept. letting them travel with the rear door open. Lawsuits because 'little johnny' "slipped" off the back will see an end to that imo.

Run_to_da_hills

lord lucan wrote: »

In practical terms i can't see the TFL H&S dept. letting them travel with the rear door open. Lawsuits because 'little johnny' "slipped" off the back will see an end to that imo.

More than likely some idiot trying to bunk a lift on the back when the thing is moving and then trying to claim.

I believe this was the reason CIE scrapped all the Taitans.

ciaran67

who the fug wrote: »

The effer (Ken Livingstone) what got rid of the original Route Master, which makes everyday bus journeys around London a Royal pain in the arse

Why get rid of a bus designed for London, which you have re engine to extend its life for another 20 years (and the punters like them), and replace them with a bendy bus. (He still in shock about getting kicked out at the last election)

What would you prefer... 50 year old Routemasters still driving around costing a fortune to keep them running, or a bus service, he completely updated, where a bus appears about every 5 minutes and runs on time?

Unbelievable, the BS written about Ken Livingstone.

who the fug

lord lucan wrote: »

In practical terms i can't see the TFL H&S dept. letting them travel with the rear door open. Lawsuits because 'little johnny' "slipped" off the back will see an end to that imo.

You were never supposed to stand on the platform whilst the bus was is in motion, so if ickle Jonny slipped off the back,it is his own tough ****

who the fug

ciaran67 wrote: »

What would you prefer... 50 year old Routemasters still driving around costing a fortune to keep them running, or a bus service, he completely updated, where a bus appears about every 5 minutes and runs on time?

Unbelievable, the BS written about Ken Livingstone.

They replacements were and are blocking junctions holding up traffic which means they are never on time, and the back of which are a mugger paradise.

The ones that replaced the 38 bendy buses are nice though.

Ken well and truley messed up when he got rid of the Route Master

Run_to_da_hills

ciaran67 wrote: »

What would you prefer... 50 year old Routemasters still driving around costing a fortune to keep them running, or a bus service, he completely updated, where a bus appears about every 5 minutes and runs on time?

Unbelievable, the BS written about Ken Livingstone.

The Routemaster was london. :mad:

lord lucan

who the fug wrote: »

You were never supposed to stand on the platform whilst the bus was is in motion, so if ickle Jonny slipped off the back,it is his own tough ****

But most people made their way to the platform before the bus arrived at the stop to enable a speedy departure. I came off the back of one a few years back because i was late down to platform and the driver and conductor thought everyone who wanted off was off.

ciaran67

who the fug wrote: »

They replacements were and are blocking junctions holding up traffic which means they are never on time, and the back of which are a mugger paradise.

The ones that replaced the 38 bendy buses are nice though.

Ken well and truley messed up when he got rid of the Route Master

Never on time? Mate, you're talking out the back of your trousers! The improvement in London is unbelievable. I was a regular user of buses in London, I couldnt get over how regular they were. Bendy buses carried dozens and dozens of people. They are the same length of about 5 cars which generally carry one person per car.

Like i said before. How on earth was he supposed to keep a fleet of buses that were about 50 years old and must of had a million miles on clock?

I loved the routemaster, i spent a lot of the 70's and early 80's as a kid in S London dodging paying the scary lady Jamaican conductor on them.

Stonewolf

They were designed to be refitted every few years and were mostly all old bodies (the bodies were found to be still well within acceptable tolerances) with new mechanical parts.

What did for them was lack of wheelchair access.

dynamick

Although there may be much to dislike about Ken Livingstone, the bus service certainly greatly improved under his tenure. Fares are fixed at £1.20 for every journey in London, no matter how long. There is real time passenger info at bus stops. Integrated smart card ticketing, on-street ticket machines, excellent bus stop information. The congestion charge improved speed and reliability of services. Children and old people travel free. They even have a working form of privatisation.

The 'bring back the routemaster' campaign was classical political emotional rubbish. It reminded me of Jim Hacker in 'Yes, Minister' defending The Great British Sausage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYP1ibYdZI

Open deck buses can only operate with conductors and you can't have conductors on buses as they double the staff costs for the service.

So I am calling BS on this new routemaster. It's just a big bus with a rear deck that will never open except for the launch photocall with Boris grinning.

One problem with having two staircases on a bus is that it creates a circuit that children can chase each other around.

London buses are miles ahead of Dublin buses and a relative joy to use.

who the fug

dynamick wrote: »

Although there may be much to dislike about Ken Livingstone, the bus service certainly greatly improved under his tenure. Fares are fixed at £1.20 for every journey in London, no matter how long. There is real time passenger info at bus stops. Integrated smart card ticketing, on-street ticket machines, excellent bus stop information. The congestion charge improved speed and reliability of services. Children and old people travel free. They even have a working form of privatisation.

£1.20. give you that

If you ever tried to use the bendy bus during rush hour in the morning you would know what pieces of crap they are. Cheap and nasty seats from a burger bar, with joys of rush hour tube crush.

I pays me cash up front, and if it goes tits up I waits till the following Saturday for a refund, instead of getting there and then. Still on the whole it is a good thing but not happy with the track and trace it give the authorities

Congestion charge at the start moved people off the roads, but people factored it into cost of doing business so no real difference just another form of taxation

OAPs always had free travel.

Bottom line is in 22 years of living in London, the only progress I see is LT ability to gouge money out of you for a pretty bad service.

dynamick

who the fug wrote: »

Bottom line is in 22 years of living in London, the only progress I see is LT ability to gouge money out of you for a pretty bad service.

Do you think the bus service in London has become worse over the past 22 years? Do you think it has become more expensive?

Run_to_da_hills

dynamick wrote: »

Do you think the bus service in London has become worse over the past 22 years? Do you think it has become more expensive?

Not a great supporter of smart cards, but at least the Oyster has proved successful with cheaper capped fares. DB might learn from this.

AlekSmart

DB might learn from this.

They already have,however their masters in the Department of Transport do not believe in all this oul Knowledge Based Economy crap and so there`ll be none of this innovative stuff !! :mad:

who the fug

dynamick wrote: »

Do you think the bus service in London has become worse over the past 22 years? Do you think it has become more expensive?

Got worse In that network has been slashed yes


You could hop on the 109 in central London and get off in Croydon ditto the 19 from South London to North London and drop in bus fares has been more than compensated by the cost £4.00 on the tubes.

Why should I pay £3.00 deposit for a bloody card, that buggers up at any time and my cash is gone, when a paper ticket goes you show it to the ticket inspector and you get in or out of the tube same with a bus.

Davidth88

As an Ex Londoner , now living in Ireland for 9 years , I can see huge improvements in the public transport in London

The Oyster card is simply fantastic , yes of course there is the possibility of ' track and trace ' , but the simplicity of the system is wonderful. Dublin ( indeed Ireland ) could learn from it , considering that most public transport in Ireland is run by one public body it stupid that a system like this wasn't available 10 years ago .

The new bus looks nice , IF ( only IF ) the deck at the back is open then this will be a great addition to the streets of London.

To be honest , I feel buses in the centre of town need a conductor , partly to speed things up , partly as a form of security.

ciaran67

Davidth88 wrote: »

As an Ex Londoner , now living in Ireland for 9 years , I can see huge improvements in the public transport in London

The Oyster card is simply fantastic , yes of course there is the possibility of ' track and trace ' , but the simplicity of the system is wonderful. Dublin ( indeed Ireland ) could learn from it , considering that most public transport in Ireland is run by one public body it stupid that a system like this wasn't available 10 years ago .

The new bus looks nice , IF ( only IF ) the deck at the back is open then this will be a great addition to the streets of London.

To be honest , I feel buses in the centre of town need a conductor , partly to speed things up , partly as a form of security.

Trouble with Ireland is the bus routes are just too long. There is no chance they're going to run on time. My local bus 84 goes from Kilcoole/Newcastle, Wicklow to somewhere near Dawson St in Dublin. If they split them into two separate routes they'd have some chance.

Ive still got my oyster - top it up when i go home to London, its brilliant. But please dont give Ken any credit David. Who the fug will be after you.

dynamick

The 84 will be split this summer into two services, a shuttle to the N11 where you transfer to a 145. Diagram here:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/5998/Stillorgan4.pdf

The 84 was one of the routes that passed through the college green bus gate so its reliability should have improved since the bus gate was put in.

Davidth88

ciaran67 wrote: »

Ive still got my oyster - top it up when i go home to London, its brilliant. But please dont give Ken any credit David. Who the fug will be after you.

I do the same

Discussions about Ken ...... political forum

---

>>>> that way , or in Kens case <<<<

---

that way ( ie to the left )

Although saying that , I remember back in the 80's the ' Fares' Fair scheme Ken brought in from the GLC when he slashed fares by 50% , and the tubes were MOBBED .... but then he upset Maggie and she abolished the GLC and Ken along with it .

I.S.T.

dynamick wrote: »

Fares are fixed at £1.20 for every journey in London, no matter how long.

Not true. It is £2 without oyster card or £1 on an oyster card.

BenShermin

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Not true. It is £2 without oyster card or £1 on an oyster card.

I'm afraid it is actually £1.20

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14415.aspx

I.S.T.

BenShermin wrote: »

I'm afraid it is actually £1.20

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14415.aspx

Ok, £2 without oyster card or £1.20 with it.

Red Alert

A lot of the Routemasters had new engines so they were already quite efficient...

alastair

I used to love the routemasters, but anyone who reckons that open platform busses are on their way back in London is deluding themselves. The routemasters were pretty fragile beats too - was in one that was rear-ended at pretty low speed and the back just fell to bits - not sure that a bunch of light aluminium and timber equates to an intentional safety crumple zone.

devnull

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Ok, £2 without oyster card or £1.20 with it.

You can thank Boris for the oyster fare hike.

dowlingm

In fairness Boris is busy buying back the bad PPP deals he inherited.

Capt'n Midnight

ciaran67 wrote: »

Trouble with Ireland is the bus routes are just too long. There is no chance they're going to run on time. My local bus 84 goes from Kilcoole/Newcastle, Wicklow to somewhere near Dawson St in Dublin. If they split them into two separate routes they'd have some chance.

Does that still stop and wait at the Dart station ?

KC61

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Does that still stop and wait at the Dart station ?

As the bus is operated out of Bray bus garage, yes it does. The buses have official departure times at Bray Station as that is where the driver changes take place.