ATH Knockout Quater final 1: Gimmick vs Cactus Col

Bounty Hunter

So we had a quality opener with Voltwad seing off Volt_2007 to progress on to face Flahavaj in the quaterfinal and the really tight Degag vs Campo match which saw Campo progress to another QF, This was followed by Waltersobcheck booking his place in the next round at Danger Dave's expense. Then we found out the final first round winner as Dieselqueen took on and defeated Dare 2 Defy in what was lterally the ATH Rock vs Austin.

So here we are with our first Quaterfinal as the Co-Champions from the last ATH come head to head in the form of Gimmick vs Cactus Col!

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the first round match ups or OP of the main thread for further details if any are needed

Q. In your opinion Which WWE superstar will benefit the most from the recent WWE draft (does not have to have been someone who was actually drafted)? not who has but who will, why do you choose them over other potential choices? and how do you see them benefitting from this roster shake-up as things progress?

good luck.

Cactus Colm

Q. In your opinion Which WWE superstar will benefit the most from the recent WWE draft (does not have to have been someone who was actually drafted)? not who has but who will, why do you choose them over other potential choices? and how do you see them benefitting from this roster shake-up as things progress?



Tough question. The way I see it, CM Punk has the chance to benefit from the draft more than anyone else. With no Edge, Chris Jericho, or Batista, Punk finally has a chance to cement himself as both the no. 1 heel for the brand, and in the process a top main eventer. Punk is a very versatile performer, extremely talented in the ring, extremely charismatic outside it. He has a fantastic gimmick. And now the Smackdown roster has been completely cleared out of main event heels.

Nobody who went to Raw will benefit too much from the draft. Edge and Jericho go to a Raw where the main event is already jam packed with the likes of Orton, Triple H, Cena, and Batista. AT best they will maintain the status quo. More likely both men will feature in main events periodically, but also spend a lot of time lower down the card, playing second fiddle to others.

John Morrison and R-Truth move to Raw as well, but we all know RAW’s reputation for taking hot talent from Smackdown and wasting their potential. At best they might feature in an Elimination chamber match, and maybe feud with main eventers who aren’t in the top feuds. More likely they’ll lose any momentum they have, be put into a couple of random tag teams, and just spend their time feuding on and off for the US title, and doing nothing much else in particular.

Goldust’s time has come and gone. He is useful, may occasionally rise up for a US Title or a tag title challenge, but like ECW he will be there to help the younger talent improve and get over.

Khali ... well, his wrestling talents are limited (at best). Any mystique as a giant he lost long ago. I just see him being used mostly for comedy bits, and maybe being brought out every once in a while as part of someone else’s feud.

The Hart Dynasty is a stable made up of a tag team and a diva. Neither the tag division nor the diva division will exactly set the world on fire. All involved in this stable seem to be quite talented, and have a lot of potential. But WWE has made it very clear that they have little interest in building a tag division. However, they see the tag titles as useful. So the Harts will mostly likely spend their time fueding with one randomly thrown together tag team after another. Several of those teams will feature The Miz.

Ezekial Jackson, I think is the most likely of all the people gone to raw to benefit. He has the look (if not the talent) to succeed for a while as a big monster, which we all know the WWE likes. But unfortunately these monsters only last as long as their mystique, and once that is ruined by a Cena or Triple H, he’ll be stuck in the mid card bumping bellies with Mark Henry.

The people on Raw won’t benefit because their main event has been expanded with two more great wrestlers, meaning the glass ceiling has just become a bit harder to break through. The mid card itself has expanded, so there’ll likely be less time for those already there.

As for those going to smackdown ... well they have a much better chance to benefit from their moves fewer main eventers, and traditionally Smackdown has been the better brand for pushing mid card talent into the upper mid card / main event.

Big Show is obviously benefiting from it at the moment, having being put into a title feud straight away. The problem with big show is the problem he has had for the last several years, every time he gets a good push, it’s followed by several months of doing nothing. He may win the title for a few months, but then before you know it, he’s spinning his heels in a tag team with Billy gunn. And this is how I see his time on smackdown going again.

Christian (or Matt Hardy 2.0), MVP, and Kofi Kingston are all around the same level being over wise. And each of them has the potential to go up into the main event. However I do not see them staying in the main event for very long. Christian is a good hand, fine wrestler, decent on the mic, but seems to lack “IT” that one thing to get him over fully. MVP comes in after doing absolutely nothing on Raw. He went over there hot, but was wasted, and has taken a step back or two. At the moment nothing is being done with him, he is being used as filler. Getting match wins, but that’s all. Kofi’s at one stage was hot on raw, but then the foot was taken off the pedal and the push came to nothing. Upon coming to Smackdown he is put straight into an angle around the IC title, and I see him spending most of his time at this level. A push up the card for all three wrestlers is possible, and at least one will make it to the main event (and maybe even champion) but that is long term, and don’t see it happening any time soon.

Cody Rhodes has a chance to establish himself in the midcard. He will benefit by hopefully getting some experience and learning from others.

As for Chavo ... well wwe has never known what to do with him. Too often he has been forced into the weasley heel role, someone else’s lackey. It would be nice to see him given a good push, I think he deserves it. But more likely he’ll spend his time in the mid / lower mid card.

Chris Masters ... is a makeweight. Wasn’t given anything to do on Raw, isn’t going to be given anything on Smackdown. Likely to be future endeavoured.

The divas and hornswoggle ... well ... they’ll do alright, but none of them are gonna set the world on fire.

As for the rest of the Smackdown roster, there is plenty of room for people to benefit here. ‘Taker and Rey are obviously the two top names, but both are slowing down and while still legit main eventers, their job will be to help others (Punk) reach that level. Jack Swagger will likely hold onto the belt for a while longer, but eventually it will be lost to a face (who will be a transitional champ to get the belt onto Punk). Swagger will then drop down the card a bit for a while and wrestle in the upper mid card, occasionally main eventing. As I said, the rest of the smackdown roster has room to benefit greatly, but nobody stands out as much as Punk.

Punk has everything going for him, and there are no heels left above him. This is his big chance to dominate Smackdown as a heel, he is in the position Edge, King Booker, and JBL all were in before him, and I certainly believe that Punk has the talent, the charisma, and the IT factor to succeed in that role. This is his chance to join the ranks of Triple H, Ric Flair, The Rock, and Randy Savage.

gimmick

This might be kind of an obvious choice from me, but I would draft NXT "hopeful" Brian Danielson into Smackdown.

This would happen in the so called "supplemental draft", the one where there is no pomp or ceremony about it as pretending to make this one anything other than an incidental addition to the roster would be stretching ones imagination a little too far. Taht is not to say that it would not be valuable, otherwise I would not be typing this answer right now.

Why I would like to see Danielson on the main roster are many. Some selfish, others more commercially driven. Dragon is a top wrestler, he can get a good match out of just about anyone. He is not a one dimensional athlete who can only do a certain type of match. Danielson can do technical as his forte, but he can also do comedy, he can also brawl, he can also fly. This can only be of benefit to any roster.

By moving him to Smackdown you are not thrusting him into the limelight straight away, with it not being televised live, but you are putting him into a show where you stand out more by having decent matches. His opponents would be almost entirely fresh and new and he can vary it about with the various opponents.

I would start Danielson not as the curtain jerker, more probably around the 40 minutes part of the show, where the momentum has been set storyline wise, and a mtach is needed. How he would be booked wouldn't be the guy in a losing run like he is currently on NXT, nor would I have him on a winning streak. I would just have him as the highlight of the night, win, lose or draw.

Eventually he would get some momentum having beaten the likes of Chavo, Finlay, masters etc. rather than rush it all, I would like to see him enter an IC title feud with another rising star - Drew McIntyre.

The reason I would go this way rather than any other potential choices is that I feel the drafts tend to throw people around too freely without any particular view as to what to do with them. My moving Dragon to the main roster gives us a new face on tv, capable of talking and wrestling who can move up the card in a Chris Benoit fashion. It will also show that a bit of hardwork in developmental does reap its rewards even if you are not 6'5 and just a block of muscle.

gimmick

Now to rebutt some of CCs answer:

The way I see it, CM Punk has the chance to benefit from the draft more than anyone else.......................And now the Smackdown roster has been completely cleared out of main event heels.

Is Punk not already a Smackdown superstar?

I am a big Punk fan and would certainly love to see him in such a position, but I do not think he is the man, yet, to take that particular ball, a ball which he has been given in the past. While his time at the top was not a failure, it did not cement his name at the top, merely made a imprint of what is more to come.

Personally I think the usage of Punk at the moment is perfect. He is placed perfectly in the upper part of the mid card. He is a hated heal who is legitimately hated by the fans with his whiny preaching. Why change a formula too quickly which is already working so well?

I also think you lost the run of your answer talking about the other possibilities. Surely you should have been more firm as to why Punk moves as opposed to why others shouldn't?

Love,
gimmick

Cactus Colm

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Q. In your opinion Which WWE superstar will benefit the most from the recent WWE draft (does not have to have been someone who was actually drafted)? not who has but who will, why do you choose them over other potential choices? and how do you see them benefitting from this roster shake-up as things progress?

gimmick wrote: »

This might be kind of an obvious choice from me, but I would draft NXT "hopeful" Brian Danielson into Smackdown.

This would happen in the so called "supplemental draft", the one where there is no pomp or ceremony about it as pretending to make this one anything other than an incidental addition to the roster would be stretching ones imagination a little too far. Taht is not to say that it would not be valuable, otherwise I would not be typing this answer right now.

Why I would like to see Danielson on the main roster are many. Some selfish, others more commercially driven. Dragon is a top wrestler, he can get a good match out of just about anyone. He is not a one dimensional athlete who can only do a certain type of match. Danielson can do technical as his forte, but he can also do comedy, he can also brawl, he can also fly. This can only be of benefit to any roster.

By moving him to Smackdown you are not thrusting him into the limelight straight away, with it not being televised live, but you are putting him into a show where you stand out more by having decent matches. His opponents would be almost entirely fresh and new and he can vary it about with the various opponents.

I would start Danielson not as the curtain jerker, more probably around the 40 minutes part of the show, where the momentum has been set storyline wise, and a mtach is needed. How he would be booked wouldn't be the guy in a losing run like he is currently on NXT, nor would I have him on a winning streak. I would just have him as the highlight of the night, win, lose or draw.

Eventually he would get some momentum having beaten the likes of Chavo, Finlay, masters etc. rather than rush it all, I would like to see him enter an IC title feud with another rising star - Drew McIntyre.

The reason I would go this way rather than any other potential choices is that I feel the drafts tend to throw people around too freely without any particular view as to what to do with them. My moving Dragon to the main roster gives us a new face on tv, capable of talking and wrestling who can move up the card in a Chris Benoit fashion. It will also show that a bit of hardwork in developmental does reap its rewards even if you are not 6'5 and just a block of muscle.

That’s a pretty good answer. However, it’s the answer to a question that has not been asked. The question (as quoted at the start of this post) is pretty clear. In relation to the recent draft, which superstars (drafted or not) will benefit from it.

It does not ask: “if you were to draft a superstar, which one would you draft, and why?”. The draft is over. Supplemental and all. I’m afraid a fantasy draft doesn’t come into it.

gimmick wrote: »

Now to rebutt some of CCs answer:



Is Punk not already a Smackdown superstar?

Yes Punk is already a smackdown superstar. But as the question said it “does not have to have been someone who was actually drafted”. So (unlike your answer ) he is a perfectly valid choice in that regard.

gimmick wrote: »

I am a big Punk fan and would certainly love to see him in such a position, but I do not think he is the man, yet, to take that particular ball, a ball which he has been given in the past. While his time at the top was not a failure, it did not cement his name at the top, merely made a imprint of what is more to come.

I think he was not in a position to run with the ball as much as he is now, there was always somebody else just that bit higher in the pecking order, whether that be Edge, Batista, or Jericho.

Previously I felt that the creative side didn’t quite have the faith in to really let him do his job. But now, obviously after clearing the decks this is his chance. The backstage staff have made him the top heel (by removing all others).

gimmick wrote: »

Personally I think the usage of Punk at the moment is perfect. He is placed perfectly in the upper part of the mid card. He is a hated heal who is legitimately hated by the fans with his whiny preaching. Why change a formula too quickly which is already working so well?

I’m not talking about changing the formula, but evolving it. Some of the best superstars and angles quickly go stale without evolution. It’s just that simple.

gimmick wrote: »

I also think you lost the run of your answer talking about the other possibilities. Surely you should have been more firm as to why Punk moves as opposed to why others shouldn't?

Well, I wanted to fully answer the question in regards to those who would benefit (or not) from the draft.

gimmick wrote: »

Love,
gimmick

….. I love you too ….


But just to re-iterate …. The biggest problem with Bryan Danielson as an answer, is that you include a lot of fantasy drafting, that is outside the boundaries of the question. I could easily have drafted 1996 era Mick Foley, and it would have been as legitimate an answer as yours.