a guilt feeling - my transitional period

celtic Liger

hey new to the site, cant find anything posted similar so forgive if its been done before...

basically, at this time in my life, i claim to be agnostic. i'm a full on i dont knower but i do know that christianity and or god is certainly not for me. il take my chances with hell if need be.

its technically a new part to my life, as i grew up i never cared but did believe because that was all id ever been told. now im old enough to look at the world around me i've chosen to opt away. ANYWAY, i havent really told my family. my ma is a believer but never goes to mass or anything, she just pray if she lost something or needs something or someone is sick kinda thing. my da couldnt care less about it all but yet he still got married in a church and will inevatibly be buried with a catholic cermon. i was talking to my granny today, who goes to mass every second day and she was telling me a story about the parish priest coming in for tea. my initial reaction was hoping he'd knock on my door some day so i could bring him in and grill him about the whole thing, but she was so happy telling me the story about how nice he was and "you'd barely even know he was a priest" kinda thing.

i feel guilty. i felt guilty. if that was a friend, a colleague or a stranger i'd be more aethiest then agnostic and would relish the opportunity for debate on the subject but this is my granny. she's in her 70's. i dont mind saying this but the little man in my head was telling me to go back to believing, to keep her and my ma happy. i told my mam about a friend who isnt getting their child baptised beacause their aethiest. my mam just more or less said sure just get it christened to keep everyone happy and leave it at that. i look on christenings as a trick to bolster statistics. if i ever have kids i really dont think id get them christened but if i never get over this guilty thing and the keeping them happy part, then i really dont know.

anyway reason for thread is just to get it off my chest. im sure others feel or felt the same. it hasnt changed my views on the situation but i'd like to think im smack bang in the middle of a transitional period. or is this something that will continue with me thru life? i hope not. i dont like feeling guilty about things when i've done nothing wrong.

Ickle Magoo

Hey OP,

I don't think you should be getting too worked up about religion or non-religion. Whether a child of yours may be christened or not may depend entirely on how religious your partner is, I'd just be nodding and smiling at the moment.

The fact your granny said the priest was so nice and "you'd hardly even know he was priest" would suggest she doesn't actually have the highest opinion of priests. There is no hard and fast rule that you must shout your agnosticism from the rooftops, again, I find nodding and smiling a good tactic in such situations and I leave the worrying about the biggies for when such a situation actually arises.

Best of luck .

kiffer

It's normal to feel guilty... It's also normal to not feel guilty... I wouldn't worry too much about guilty feelings here. You're turning your back on something that is culturally very important to your relatives and that can cause trouble.

By "go back to believing" do you mean pay lip service or do you think you can choose to believe?
People arrive at a belief status for a range of reasons... From emotional to rational... but I don't think you really choose...

You can hear all the rational arguements against the existence of God(s) and find them solid... but not be convinced on an emotional level and so believe... Or you could hear and find some sort of rational reasons for the existence of God highly plausible but feel that it doesn't actually fly on a emotional level...

Either way you'd end up feeling somewhat conflicted... (ahhh crap someone at the back of the bus is "smoking") ideally you need to bring head and heart* into harmony to be happy... Though I guess some times you need to bite the bullet and let reason win out...

*before someone points out that the heart is just a muscle I'm being poetic(not very) you jerk, it's symbolic...

I guess in that state the best thing to do is make no sudden changes... Talk and think, feel your way around the problem.
Don't worry about telling you family till you know how you feel and even then you can just not rock the boat for the sake of granny's heart(literally now)...
Maybe you should go talk to the priest... A statement I may shot for saying here :-) but stick with me for a second...
Go talk to the priest ask him why he believes... Listen to what he has to say, consider it in a critical manner... Ask yourself "is it even possible to know the answer?" ... Does anyone know? Can anyone know? If they can't then where did the idea come from? If the can then whose version is right?

Remember it's a big question but don't worry and remember "I don't know" is an exceptable answer...

Most importantly don't just listen to others... Think and reason for yourself... you may end up at the 'wrong' conclusion in the end (ie not my conclusions... ;-) ) but at least you'll have examined the issues yourself and hey, you can always rethink your position in the future.

Edit: almost home! Go bus go!

Pygmalion

celtic Liger wrote: »

i dont mind saying this but the little man in my head was telling me to go back to believing, to keep her and my ma happy.

The thing is, and I'm sure you know this (although some people don't appear to), you wouldn't actually be believing, you'd just be pretending to believe.

Incidentally if your granny knows or suspects you're having doubts about religion the fact that she mentioned the priest being nice and said "you'd hardly know he's a priest" might've been a hint that you could talk to him about it without him being too judgemental or something, though maybe I'm reading into it too much :P.

i told my mam about a friend who isnt getting their child baptised beacause their aethiest. my mam just more or less said sure just get it christened to keep everyone happy and leave it at that. i look on christenings as a trick to bolster statistics. if i ever have kids i really dont think id get them christened but if i never get over this guilty thing and the keeping them happy part, then i really dont know.

If your mam said the kid should be baptised just to keep everyone happy she doesn't strike me as being too bothered by whether people believe or not, a lot of people are more concerned about tradition and these events than the actual religious aspects.
Of course you know her more than me so no point in me telling you about this, but something to consider.

As for what to do I'd say just avoid confrontation about the issue.
Might be hard if it's something that comes up a lot, but if going to church once at Christmas and once at Easter per year will keep them happy then I'd say just do it, not for religious reasons, just to keep them happy in following the tradition.

ColmDawson

It's natural to feel a little bit guilty, OP. Still, I think you ought to be confident and honest about your agnosticism. I don't know about your personal situation and how devout some of your family are, but I know I'd feel like I were giving up some of my integrity if I were to go to mass to please people. However, I'm much more on the atheist end of the spectrum, so maybe you, as an agnostic, wouldn't mind as much. Follow your brain!

P.S. This forum is here to help you. It helped me a lot.

Daftendirekt

There's no need to feel guilty, but at the same time, there's no need to get into a philosophical debate with your granny if it's just going to end up with her getting offended or angry.

I find the language of non-committal grunts can be very helpful in cases like this. Not because you should be embarrassed about your viewpoint, but because sometimes it just isn't worth it. If you feel like lashing it out in a debate, there's plenty of opportunity to do just that in this very forum without letting your elderly relatives know that you've become a godless heathen.


The guilty feeling will probably fade away by itself. It isn't surprising that you'd feel like that when you've grown up in a culture where religion and morality are so intertwined in most people's minds. You're probably still just suffering the hangover from your belief.

bnt

There's nothing wrong with not knowing. Not knowing is normal, since none of us really know the answers to these big questions. The problems start when people claim to know, or be certain, without any real justification - and expect you to change your thoughts and your life based on nothing real.

Not knowing is not Agnosticism, though: the strict definition of Agnosticism is the active belief that it's not possible to know, that the fundamental questions can never be answered. I don't think that, personally - I think that finding answers is possible, though it may not be practical within our limited human capabilities.