Sandwith Street - Cycle Lane

rjr2

Interested in cyclists opinion on this, there's a cycle lane on Sandwith Street Lower in Dublin 2 just before the junction with Pearse Street which splits in two like a fork. I've attached an overhead view from google maps, it's a one way street.

Last week I was cycling along and when I came to the fork in the cycle lane I took the right hand cycle lane in order to go straight through the junction. A bus driver beeped his horn at me and then when stopped at the lights said I had cut in front of him. It would of been my understanding that I had the right of way as he was cutting across the cycle lane in order to go left at the junction.

This happens all the time, cars cut across the cycle lane as if they have priority over the cyclist who wishes to take the right lane at the fork. It's an unusual setup but surely as the car has to cross over the cycle lane does the cyclist not have the right of way?

does anyone know what rules of the road would apply here?

tomasrojo

The status of on-road, unsegregated cycle lanes/tracks in Irish law seems to me to be rather hazy. I've discussed this with some people I know with legal training and they agree that it isn't clear what status they have.

Consider also standard traffic lanes that are retrofitted with cycle lanes. The cycle lane is rather narrow for a bike and a car can't possibly fit in what's left of the traffic lane. They are clearly still a single lane in practice.

I definitely find it safer to assume that cycle lanes are not legally separate and to assume that they do not confer any right of way on cyclists.

So I'd forget about right of way and concentrate on what the safest approach is. It turns out usually that it's what you would do if there were no cycle lane and you were just using the road.

With that mental attitude, what you should do is negotiate your way out from the side of the road before the bus is beginning to turn. This, I judge from your photo, means leaving the cycle lane before the right split. The right split is too abrupt a swing to the right, and it's in the wrong place; by following it, you swung in front of a bus just as the bus was starting to turn. That's a very bad idea. In the absence of any other information from you, a driver will usually assume you're going to continue following the leftmost part of the roadway.

So what you need to do (or what I'd recommend anyway) is look back over your right shoulder, signal that you're turning right to move away from the side of the road, and check to make sure that the bus driver (or whoever is behind you) has seen you, noted your intention and is willling to let you do it. Then proceed onwards in the straight-ahead lane; I'd probably line myself up with the part of the lane that will be the straight-ahead cycle lane, if you see what I mean. Then the bus driver can proceed left behind you. Move back over the leftmost part of the road as soon as it is convenient for you to do so -- it's usually the far side of the next junction, but use your common sense.

If you find that intimidating, then look over your shoulder as you reach the right split and if any traffic is coming, stop completely, let it go and then proceed onwards when your path is clear.

Whatever you do, look over your right shoulder as you approach any change in the road that means other vehicles might be crossing your trajectory from behind you. Don't assume you have right of way; try to act how any other road user would act in the same situation, allowing for the limitiations of being on a slow-moving vehicle.

tomasrojo

Incidentally, when I mention moving back to the leftmost part of the road, I don't mean cycling in the gutter. Cycle an arm's length away from the footpath.

Beasty

It's pretty clear to me - you were in front, the bus was moving from one lane to another - you had right of way. The bus should not have moved across lanes until the road was clear.

tomasrojo

Since the OP says this happens all the time ( I assume he or she means using this cycle lane), then it's unsafe to use it as designed. I'm not surprised that it is unsafe; from a purely practical point of view, you shouldn't lurch to the right from the side of the road, and no-one should be painting lines on the road to encourage you to do so either.

It's not clear from the image whether the cycle lane is colour-coded. If it isn't, other road users might not even be aware that you were following a cycle lane.

(I'm not taking the side of the bus driver. Far from it. Life would be far better if road users made for the brake instead of the horn when confusing circumstances arrive.)

rjr2

tomasrojo thanks for the reply, your view point makes sense and in future I think I'd be wise to use this road as if the cycle lane markings are not present. It would seem to be an unsafe practice for the council to mark out these type of cycle lanes

To answer your question on the markings, the cycle lane is colour coded, it is painted orange

petethedrummer

Just ignore the cycle lanes. They are a waste of good paint.

Harrybelafonte

Used to use this cycle lane every morning, made the exact same move, just indicated before I made it, you'd wanna be stupid not to.

But I do feel it's a ridiculous design and better off not being there at all.

ROK ON

I work around the corner frin this one and know it well.

Few points.
Any vehicle in front of another vehicle has the right of way.
As a bike you are a vehicle.
Drivers may not be aware of this particular cycle lane even when driving on it daily.
You need to legislate for that.
Be road aware, signal and take your line in the middle of the straight ahead lane well in advance.

If you get hit it would be too late to worry about who was in the right etc. Be assertive, signal and stay safe.

Ant

The problem with cycling in most cycle lanes is that being in the cycling lane is a bit like Schoedinger's cat. The cyclist is simultaneously travelling both in the traffic lane and to the left of it. From the bus driver's point of view, you're in a separate lane to his/her left while from your perspective, you're continuing straight ahead as the bus driver decides to move into the new filter lane for left turning traffic.

I definitely find it safer to assume that cycle lanes are not legally separate and to assume that they do not confer any right of way on cyclists.

So I'd forget about right of way and concentrate on what the safest approach is. It turns out usually that it's what you would do if there were no cycle lane and you were just using the road.

I'd agree with tomasrojo's approach to such situations and I act the same coming up to any junction where there's a left-turning filter lane. Sandwith St. is unusual in that the designers are at least aware that cyclists sometimes want to go straight ahead - or god forbid, turn right - at a junction.

tomasrojo

Ant wrote: »

Sandwith St. is unusual in that the designers are at least aware that cyclists sometimes want to go straight ahead - or god forbid, turn right - at a junction.

Yeah, it seems harsh to criticise them for at least trying to meet cyclists' requiremens, but it would be better for the cycle lane to disappear. As I said, encouraging novice cyclists to lurch suddenly to the right is extremely poor design. Mind you, then people would complain about the cycle lane disappearing.

I think Cyclist.ie wanted cycle lanes to peter out before junctions, for this reason, and to get rid of those that leave straight-ahead cylists on the left of left-turning traffic.

It really is quite hard to superimpose another network on top of an existing network. In a lot of cases (most cases in my personal opinion) it would be better if they didn't try.

SubLuminal

Not even going to bother reading past the first post here, only to say what I've said a thousand times, the cycle lanes in Dublin are dangerous, badly thought out and ill maintained. Avoid them. Choose your own path, make your own choices about where to cycle, if you follow the path some ****wit at the council has laid down for you, you're going to end up under a bus. If he hadn't beeped you (if he'd been adjusting his radio, looking at a phone, arguing with a passenger, drunk, etc) we'd be painting another bike white this evening instead of reading your post...

Ant

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think Cyclist.ie wanted cycle lanes to peter out before junctions, for this reason, and to get rid of those that leave straight-ahead cylists on the left of left-turning traffic.

That seems like the best solution, I've heard yet. It would remind cyclists that they are traffic too and that it's their responsibility to get in the correct lane well in advance of the junction. I wonder what the legendary Northern Europeans do in this situation.

It really is quite hard to superimpose another network on top of an existing network. In a lot of cases (most cases in my personal opinion) it would be better if they didn't try.

Agreed.

oceanclub

I've had cars nearly knock me down twice when trying to use those cycle lanes as designed, so from now on I simply ignore them if going straight ahead; I move to the right as soon as possible on that reoad.

P.

BostonB

I think what I'd do is...

Ignore the cycle lane and move over and block/command the entire lane before the Y split. After that move back into the lane.

That said I've not used that road in years.