Africa Day, Iveagh Gardens Dublin 16th May

Nodin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, look, the racist card.
What a surprise.
Let's play, so. Firstly, you tell me how I'm racist for highlighting that we pay for a festival celebrating a distant continent with little links to this country when we do not for our own continent..

....the sweeping generalisations re Africans, for starters.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Then you can (.....)recording it.

If theres St Patrick represented, thats a "christian theme". If theres a float with a dozen religons on it including some christians, thats some "christian theme" there too.

MagicMarker

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It's a religious festival is what's wrong with that.
I speak as an ardent atheist when I say that the state has no right to bar references to Christianity in the St Patrick's Day parade, because it's not their parade - it belongs to the Irish people, who celebrate it in commemoration of the national saint, in keeping with a lengthy tradition.
Even worse is to do so hypocritically, by banning Christian references but then putting a float of all sorts of other religions up O'Connell Street.

It's as religious as christmas tbh, as in, not religious at all.

biko

orourkeda wrote: »

When are we having a go back to Africa day?

Banned

Cavehill Red

Nodin wrote: »

....the sweeping generalisations re Africans, for starters.

I haven't mentioned Africans at all. Care to try again?

Nodin wrote: »

If theres St Patrick represented, thats a "christian theme". If theres a float with a dozen religons on it including some christians, thats some "christian theme" there too.

I've no evidence that any Christians WERE on the 'city fusion' float. Have you?
And just as Jesus in 'South Park' is not a Christian theme nor is some punter in an anachronistic mitre waving a rubber snake about at drunk people in O'Connell Street.
I couldn't care less about the Catholic Church or any other, but it renders the national feast day meaningless to seek to strip it of it's traditions and heritage which are indisputably rooted in Irish Catholicism.
To seek to bar them from the parade in which they should be central is shameful, in my opinion. But no less shameful than a government borrowing money at 6% on our behalf to throw a party to celebrate a distant continent with little connection to us.

Nodin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It's a religious festival is what's wrong with that.
I speak as an ardent atheist when I say that the state has no right to bar references to Christianity in the St Patrick's Day parade, because it's not their parade - it belongs to the Irish people, who celebrate it in commemoration of the national saint, in keeping with a lengthy tradition.
Even worse is to do so hypocritically, by banning Christian references but then putting a float of all sorts of other religions up O'Connell Street.

St patrick = christian reference
float with all different religons = more than likely christian references

starbelgrade

orourkeda wrote: »

You anti racism people wouldn't propagate sterotypes or fuel myths would you?

It's a rather foolish thing to say when one considers that you dont know the first thing about me. Practice what you preach. I presume you are preaching something.

All I know about you is what you have posted on boards & none of it suggests to me that you are a the kind of person who I would like to spend any time with.

And I certainly have no time for racists or bigots.

rovert

The liberal do-gooders finally beat orourkeda

Cavehill Red

Nodin wrote: »

St patrick = christian reference

No, it isn't. See my previous post for why.

Nodin wrote: »

float with all different religons = more than likely christian references

Was there or wasn't there? I don't know and I doubt you do either. And in any case, seeking to create equivalence of religions in a feast day celebrated by one and not the others is a nonsense.
I don't doubt there are plenty of people happy to see the erosion of all that is unique and indigenous about Ireland. The state is central to that, and their multicult propaganda is no less evident when they blow fortunes on parties for Africa than when they seek to turn St Patrick's Day into a multicult Arirang.

ejmaztec

Cavehill Red wrote: »

borrowing money at 6% on our behalf to throw a party to celebrate a distant continent with little connection to us.

Nothing like international peace, friendship and harmony, is there?

Nodin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I haven't mentioned Africans at all. Care to try again?.

So go along, and celebrate the only culture our state agencies don't actively wish to destroy - the non-indigenous cultures of a far-off continent with little in common with Ireland, few historical connections relatively speaking, and slender achievements.

You weren't talking about the Finns there.

non-indigenous

That term is all the rage with some people these days.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I've no evidence that any Christians WERE on the 'city fusion' float. Have you??.

According to your own account of the conversation via the organiser and the priest, the clear implication was that their would be "religious iconography" on the float.

starbelgrade

rovert wrote: »

The liberal do-gooders finally beat orourkeda

Oh yeah - it's someone else's fault that he is a racist.

Nodin

rovert wrote: »

The liberal do-gooders finally beat orourkeda

I think it fairer to say that he beat himself.

Nodin

starbelgrade wrote: »

Oh yeah - it's someone else's fault that he is a racist.

....probably some African.

Cavehill Red

Nodin wrote: »

You weren't talking about the Finns there.

I wasn't talking about Africans either. It's Africa Day, not Africans Day, after all.
Was there something about that quote of mine that you find to be inaccurate?

Nodin wrote: »

That term is all the rage with some people these days.

As is calling people racist because they'd like to see more fiscal responsibility and less multicult posturing from our morally bankrupt government.

Nodin wrote: »

According to your own account of the conversation via the organiser and the priest, the clear implication was that their would be "religious iconography" on the float.

Nope. According to my account and the tape, Donal Shiels, the festival organiser said that religions would be represented on the float by people.
Here's his actual quote for you: "There will be a float entitled 'City Fusion' in the parade, celebrating 20 different nationalities and 14 different religions will be represented on that."
I take from that that it's the different nationalities were being 'celebrated' whereas their mere presence meant that religions were 'represented.'
Which of course raises the question about why they were celebrating other nationalities during the Irish national feast day.
Let's cut to the chase here - why are we paying for an Africa Day and not an Ireland Day or a Europe Day?

nachoman

Nodin wrote: »

I think it fairer to say that he beat himself.

Ooarwh Matron!

rovert

Nodin wrote: »

I think it fairer to say that he beat himself.

That is one way to bring back corporal punishment.

southsiderosie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ye might as well go. Ye're paying for it, via the Dept of Foreign Affairs and other state bodies.
We don't have an America Day or an Asia Day or (God forbid) a Europe Day paid for by the state (to the tune of hundreds of thousands of euro, incidentally.)
The same state turned our national day, a religious feast day for Catholics and Anglicans, into a multiculti propaganda fest of 'New Irish' floats while banning any references to Christianity in the Dublin parade.
So go along, and celebrate the only culture our state agencies don't actively wish to destroy - the non-indigenous cultures of a far-off continent with little in common with Ireland, few historical connections relatively speaking, and slender achievements.

Actually, the Arts Council - which is publicly funded - supports a variety of cultural events for and with other countries and regions; the Franco-Irish Literary Festival immediately comes to mind. The government also quite generously funds a number of American artists and scholars to come to Ireland every year for several months, and finish their time with multiple public exhibitions of their work. Dublin City Council sponsors a number of cultural events, including Chinese New Years celebrations. I'm not sure what it is you're complaining about; all of these events are open to the public, not just specific ethnic groups. Frankly I think it's nice to have free cultural events in Dublin; most other "global" cities (cough, cough) have loads of these types of festivals and such, especially during the summer months.

That said, this funding pales in comparison to what the government pays to support Irish culture - language, artists, theater, etc.

I will agree that the St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin is lame. Unfortunately, I don't think adding religious symbols will save it. :P

biko

I'd probably go if I was over there, African food is fantastic.

Cavehill Red

southsiderosie wrote: »

Actually, the Arts Council - which is publicly funded....

Forgive me for stopping you there. That's a problem in itself. Shakespeare didn't require a government grant. Pace the 'National Campaign for the Arts' but they have to take their cuts like everyone else.
And I suspect people would rather keep hospitals and schools open than pay for the fat faces in Aosdana, visiting American sculptors, or the multicult festivals.
As I recall, the Chinese had no problem celebrating their new year for many years without state aid.

southsiderosie wrote: »

I will agree that the St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin is lame. Unfortunately, I don't think adding religious symbols will save it. :P

Whereas a 'City Fusion' float...?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Nodin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I wasn't talking about Africans either. It's Africa Day, not Africans Day, after all.

As a landmass of itself doesn't acheive anything, all such being due to it's population, its perfectly obvious what you were getting at. At least some on this thread had the balls to be upfront with their views - you seem to be trying to wheedle out of it now.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Was there something about that quote of mine that you find to be inaccurate?

So you were talking about Africans then?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

As is calling people racist because they'd like to see more fiscal responsibility and less multicult posturing from our morally bankrupt government.

Not at all. It's perfectly possible to question Government spending on any number of issues without being racist. You being a racist, however, obviously haven't taken that route.

"multicult"....that badly made up word tends to hang around with "non-indigenous" a lot.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Nope. According(.....) Europe Day ?

So according to you, there was a float with religons on it, and you're now trying to resort to semantics to undermine your own account, on top of your special pleading re St Patrick.

rovert

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Forgive me for stopping you there. That's a problem in itself. Shakespeare didn't require a government grant.

AMAZING

Cavehill Red

Nodin wrote: »

As a landmass of itself doesn't acheive anything, all such being due to it's population, its perfectly obvious what you were getting at. At least some on this thread had the balls to be upfront with their views - you seem to be trying to wheedle out of it now.

Incorrect. I stand by everything I wrote.

Nodin wrote: »

So you were talking about Africans then?

No, I was talking about Africa. Do try to keep up.

Nodin wrote: »

Not at all. It's perfectly possible to question Government spending on any number of issues without being racist. You being a racist, however, obviously haven't taken that route.

Still waiting for you to provide some evidence for that slur. What if I start calling you a bigot, just for the craic?

Nodin wrote: »

"multicult"....that badly made up word tends to hang around with "non-indigenous" a lot.

What word wasn't 'made up' by some person? And who made you arbiter of which words are well-made or not?

Nodin wrote: »

So according to you, there was a float with religons on it, and you're now trying to resort to semantics to undermine your own account, on top of your special pleading re St Patrick.

It's spelt 'religions', firstly.
Secondly, there was a float with people from different nations on it. There weren't any religions on it. If you're going to engage in your kneejerk responses, at least read what you're responding to first.

Nodin

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Forgive me for stopping you there. That's a problem in itself. Shakespeare didn't require a government grant.

Really? He didn't receive royal patronage?

LpPepper

Eileen Curved Scorecard wrote: »

Blue Thunder is a chipper

Its also a blues rock band

southsiderosie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Forgive me for stopping you there. That's a problem in itself. Shakespeare didn't require a government grant. Pace the 'National Campaign for the Arts' but they have to take their cuts like everyone else.
And I suspect people would rather keep hospitals and schools open than pay for the fat faces in Aosdana, visiting American sculptors, or the multicult festivals.
As I recall, the Chinese had no problem celebrating their new year for many years without state aid.


Whereas a 'City Fusion' float...?

Shakespeare? Oh dear lord.

Given that Ireland doesn't really produce anything but culture (and beer, and houses that nobody wants to live in), I can see why there might be some government incentive to fund the arts at home...Especially since so many of the country's greatest cultural icons have historically left for Continental Europe and beyond.

The cost of one American to spend a year here on a cultural exchange is less that Irish taxpayers spend in 6 months for your lazy-ass TDs to get driven around in Mercs. Yes everyone needs to make cuts, but they should start at the top, and I have yet to see that happen. And in the meantime, why cut an event that is family-friendly and open to the public? There aren't enough of those in Dublin AT ALL.

Irish leaders talk about wanting a knowledge economy, but part of what makes knowledge "clustering" work is that they are in areas where highly skilled creative people want to actually live (San Francisco, for example). Ireland has traditionally been hopelessly provincial, but has changed a lot over the last decade. It still has a loooooooooong way to go, however, as many of the attitudes here make clear.

biko

Obaraten wrote: »

Really?what do you recommend i try?:)

Try rice with shrimp if they have it. And the chicken.

theboxer

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ye might as well go. Ye're paying for it, via the Dept of Foreign Affairs and other state bodies.

Can you provide a link for that?

rovert

Nodin wrote: »

Really? He didn't receive royal patronage?

That came from a guy who wants to cut funding from arts and culture :rolleyes:

theboxer

southsiderosie wrote: »

Shakespeare? Oh dear lord.

Given that Ireland doesn't really produce anything but culture (and beer, and houses that nobody wants to live in), I can see why there might be some government incentive to fund the arts at home.

What arts will be on show tomorrow? A few yams, some singing and dancing, what else?