Gardai -Tax money - fuel

Seanieke

I was in a petrol station the other day when a Garda car & Transit van pulled in for diesel.
Got me thinking seeing as our tax money was paying for that fuel & Gardai are the law, why dont they use red diesel??

ardmacha

THis is a useful thread, indeed. SInce regular diesel is more expensive because of tax, it makes no difference whatsoever to the taxpayer.

mink_man

sure if theyre buyin taxed fuel then the money is goin to the government which is just goin back to the cops anyways?

Seanieke

mink_man wrote: »

sure if theyre buyin taxed fuel then the money is goin to the government which is just goin back to the cops anyways?

Ah I see, thanks for that

MagicSean

On the other hand it still comes out of the garda budget which means less money to spend on other resources.

Owen

I'd imagine one of our boardsies Gardaí will clear it up, but surely they just claim the tax back, or have agreements with certain stations/chains with credit accounts.

MagicSean

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I'd imagine one of our boardsies Gardaí will clear it up, but surely they just claim the tax back, or have agreements with certain stations/chains with credit accounts.

Yes it is all done by tender. I don't know how the tax works though.

Eric Cartman

petrol stations buy fuel at raw cost and pay the duty, VAT and carbon charge on it when you put it in your car so theyre buyign unmarked fuel for 50c a litre say , and they charge 1.25 for it (diesel) , they have paid the petroleum company there 50c , now they go and pay the goverment the 70c in duty etc... (they make about 4-5c a litre) , but the gards have a fuel card deal , when that fuel card goes into the computer the computer doesnt add on the duty or VAT or anything , so when a garage send off their money to the gov'ment they only pay the duty etc on what youve bought , not the gards/army etc...

Hooch

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I'd imagine one of our boardsies Gardaí will clear it up, but surely they just claim the tax back, or have agreements with certain stations/chains with credit accounts.

Simple answer is because we are the law.....but were not above it. We have no exemption in law for the use of Agri diesel. Simples.

As kmac pointed out we pay full whack for fuel. Same with patrol cars....we now pay VRT/TAX where as years ago AGS didnt have to.

The fuel cards have a deal on them alright for Topaz....however managment cannot claim back tax which digs into our budget.....and with the averge car putting up 300,000 in three years.,....thats alot of money!!!

Hooch

Eric Cartman wrote: »

petrol stations buy fuel at raw cost and pay the duty, VAT and carbon charge on it when you put it in your car so theyre buyign unmarked fuel for 50c a litre say , and they charge 1.25 for it (diesel) , they have paid the petroleum company there 50c , now they go and pay the goverment the 70c in duty etc... (they make about 4-5c a litre) , but the gards have a fuel card deal , when that fuel card goes into the computer the computer doesnt add on the duty or VAT or anything , so when a garage send off their money to the gov'ment they only pay the duty etc on what youve bought , not the gards/army etc...

Funny enough....I do car returns and yes....the state have the Vat etc added on at the pumps.....we pay full whack!

wyndham

Doesn't the red diesel mark the inside of the tank and leave permanent contamination? They would be unable to sell former garda vehicles at the end of their use unless they were decontaminated.

JHMEG

All Gardaí get €4200 "rent allowance" a year even if they're not renting, cos they just do. It would make sense to change whatever law so they can use marked diesel, but they use regular diesel cos again, this is the way it is and no-one has changed it.

DubTony

Eric Cartman wrote: »

petrol stations buy fuel at raw cost and pay the duty, VAT and carbon charge on it when you put it in your car so theyre buyign unmarked fuel for 50c a litre say , and they charge 1.25 for it (diesel) , they have paid the petroleum company there 50c , now they go and pay the goverment the 70c in duty etc... (they make about 4-5c a litre) , but the gards have a fuel card deal , when that fuel card goes into the computer the computer doesnt add on the duty or VAT or anything , so when a garage send off their money to the gov'ment they only pay the duty etc on what youve bought , not the gards/army etc...

No they don't. The pay the price including all taxes, reclaim the VAT like any other business and then charge VAT on the higher (retail) price. They do not get into carbon taxes / excise duties etc.

If garages sell petrol at €1.35, the chances are they're buying it at about €1.32.

MagicSean

JHMEG wrote: »

All Gardaí get €4200 "rent allowance" a year even if they're not renting, cos they just do. It would make sense to change whatever law so they can use marked diesel, but they use regular diesel cos again, this is the way it is and no-one has changed it.

No they get paid rent allowance because they can be sent to any station in ireland at 4 weeks notice. An lot of gardaí have to rent a a room near their station and still pay off their family home mortgage back home.

Guy:Incognito

k_mac wrote: »

No they get paid rent allowance because they can be sent to any station in ireland at 4 weeks notice. An lot of gardaí have to rent a a room near their station and still pay off their family home mortgage back home.

OT but normal practice would be for a company to pay money only if that situation arises, not pay it forever in case at some point they moght have to rent.

challengemaster

Before I start, I'm not actually trying to get a dig in at the gardaí here... I just want to try make sense of what's been said

nice guy always wrote: »

Simple answer is because we are the law.....but were not above it. We have no exemption in law for the use of Agri diesel. Simples.

As kmac pointed out we pay full whack for fuel. Same with patrol cars....we now pay VRT/TAX where as years ago AGS didnt have to.

The fuel cards have a deal on them alright for Topaz....however managment cannot claim back tax which digs into our budget.....and with the averge car putting up 300,000 in three years.,....thats alot of money!!!

Either way though, you're still not paying for it out of your own pocket.

Also, the average car does 300k in 3 years? 100k/year, if that's in km, then that's more than doing a ring around Ireland 8 times. And for that to be the average, then some do more, some do less..

Seeing as Gardaí don't tend to move outside the county limits they're posted in, can you explain how exactly such great milage is put up?

I'm only really wondering as I never actually see Gardaí doing anything all that important. On 2 occasions, over a year apart I've come across something actually happening where they did something. 1 was a checkpoint that people on a bike tried to flee from, crashed the bike and took off on foot with garda chasing, the other was where an unmarked had already pulled a jeep, spotted someone on the phone driving by and took after them. The majority of times I see Gardaí around the place in squad cars, they're actually doing nothing (cruising), or sitting at checkpoints/etc. I just can't possibly figure out WHY such great milage would be done....

MagicSean

challengemaster wrote: »

Before I start, I'm not actually trying to get a dig in at the gardaí here... I just want to try make sense of what's been said



Either way though, you're still not paying for it out of your own pocket.

Also, the average car does 300k in 3 years? 100k/year, if that's in km, then that's more than doing a ring around Ireland 8 times. And for that to be the average, then some do more, some do less..

Seeing as Gardaí don't tend to move outside the county limits they're posted in, can you explain how exactly such great milage is put up?

I'm only really wondering as I never actually see Gardaí doing anything all that important. On 2 occasions, over a year apart I've come across something actually happening where they did something. 1 was a checkpoint that people on a bike tried to flee from, crashed the bike and took off on foot with garda chasing, the other was where an unmarked had already pulled a jeep, spotted someone on the phone driving by and took after them. The majority of times I see Gardaí around the place in squad cars, they're actually doing nothing (cruising), or sitting at checkpoints/etc. I just can't possibly figure out WHY such great milage would be done....

When a garda doesn't have something to do they have to patrol, or cruise as you put it. For about 6 hours of an 8 hour shift. That is a lot of driving. What exactly do you want them to do? Drive around all day with lights and sirens so you feel happy with your investment. Head out with a car crew on a saturday night and you will see the work that is done.

challengemaster

k_mac wrote: »

When a garda doesn't have something to do they have to patrol, or cruise as you put it. For about 6 hours of an 8 hour shift. That is a lot of driving. What exactly do you want them to do? Drive around all day with lights and sirens so you feel happy with your investment. Head out with a car crew on a saturday night and you will see the work that is done.

Well, why the hell don't they just change that. It's just a gigantic waste of money. They've got legs, wouldn't kill them to walk a bit. How about doing some work at the station? Where does it actually make sense for them to drive around for 6 hours doing nothing? Like I said, it's not like they're paying for it. If they were they sure as hell wouldn't be driving around for that long.

By car crew, do you mean car enthusiasts/etc or the gardaí?

I was out friday night with about 7 or 8 modified heads. Dunno how many Gardaí passed us and none did a thing. Atleast 4 cars, 1 van and probably a few on foot too.

If you mean the gardaí, I wouldn't really consider slapping people on the wrist for peeing in public a great use of tax income or garda time tbh.

MagicSean

challengemaster wrote: »

Well, why the hell don't they just change that. It's just a gigantic waste of money. They've got legs, wouldn't kill them to walk a bit. How about doing some work at the station? Where does it actually make sense for them to drive around for 6 hours doing nothing? Like I said, it's not like they're paying for it. If they were they sure as hell wouldn't be driving around for that long.

By car crew, do you mean car enthusiasts/etc or the gardaí?

I was out friday night with about 7 or 8 modified heads. Dunno how many Gardaí passed us and none did a thing. Atleast 4 cars, 1 van and probably a few on foot too.

If you mean the gardaí, I wouldn't really consider slapping people on the wrist for peeing in public a great use of tax income or garda time tbh.

So you don't think garda patrols have any benefit? And how is a garda supposed to walk around a district that takes 20 minutes to cross in a car and still be able to respond to emergencies?

Guy:Incognito

challengemaster wrote: »

Well, why the hell don't they just change that. It's just a gigantic waste of money. They've got legs, wouldn't kill them to walk a bit. How about doing some work at the station? Where does it actually make sense for them to drive around for 6 hours doing nothing? Like I said, it's not like they're paying for it. If they were they sure as hell wouldn't be driving around for that long..

I'm sure you'd be delighted if you rang 999 andthey told you you'd have to wait halfan hour for the Gaurds to walk back to the station to get their car.

challengemaster

Stekelly wrote: »

I'm sure you'd be delighted if you rang 999 andthey told you you'd have to wait halfan hour for the Gaurds to walk back to the station to get their car.

Half an hour would be a vast improvement on their response time as it is..

Guy:Incognito

challengemaster wrote: »

Half an hour would be a vast improvement on their response time as it is..

Well it would be whatever it is now + whatever time it takes them to get back to the cars.

Hooch

challengemaster wrote: »

Either way though, you're still not paying for it out of your own pocket.

Also, the average car does 300k in 3 years? 100k/year, if that's in km, then that's more than doing a ring around Ireland 8 times. And for that to be the average, then some do more, some do less..

Seeing as Gardaí don't tend to move outside the county limits they're posted in, can you explain how exactly such great milage is put up?

I'm only really wondering as I never actually see Gardaí doing anything all that important. On 2 occasions, over a year apart I've come across something actually happening where they did something. 1 was a checkpoint that people on a bike tried to flee from, crashed the bike and took off on foot with garda chasing, the other was where an unmarked had already pulled a jeep, spotted someone on the phone driving by and took after them. The majority of times I see Gardaí around the place in squad cars, they're actually doing nothing (cruising), or sitting at checkpoints/etc. I just can't possibly figure out WHY such great milage would be done....

So because you only saw Gardaí in action twice they do nothing?? Do you follow your local patrol car around?? Do you not realise that Garda Districts are vast?? While your in one area the patrol car could be in another??

Gardaí patrol their areas.....funnyly enough for some reason criminals travel outside towns into the countyside (I know....like whats up with that!!) Patrol is a crime prevention method. It also means the car is more likely to be ready to respond to a call and is already on the road.

Garda cars are hot 24/7, constantly being driven. Driven responding to calls or driven on patrol.

challengemaster wrote: »

Well, why the hell don't they just change that. It's just a gigantic waste of money. They've got legs, wouldn't kill them to walk a bit. How about doing some work at the station? Where does it actually make sense for them to drive around for 6 hours doing nothing? Like I said, it's not like they're paying for it. If they were they sure as hell wouldn't be driving around for that long.

Right so all Gardaí should be walking around the town.....or stay in the station??

Driving around for 6 hours doing nothing??? Your attitude is a strange one....so you think Gardaí should not patrol an area? Not patrol the roads?? So Gardaí should.....just give up their job??

challengemaster wrote: »

If you mean the gardaí, I wouldn't really consider slapping people on the wrist for peeing in public a great use of tax income or garda time tbh.

Why not......you wouldnt be too impressed if some drunk urinated into your letter box or door way on a Saturday night would you??

slimjimmc

Seanieke wrote: »

I was in a petrol station the other day when a Garda car & Transit van pulled in for diesel.
Got me thinking seeing as our tax money was paying for that fuel & Gardai are the law, why dont they use red diesel??

I hope they don't, I'd hate to see them boosting coffers of HM's Government instead of our own.;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes

freighter

challengemaster wrote: »

Half an hour would be a vast improvement on their response time as it is..

Hold on you said you only had two examples of the gardai in action as you say.. How do you know what their response time is. You never said in the above post you rang 999. You are talking bs.

challengemaster

freighter wrote: »

Hold on you said you only had two examples of the gardai in action as you say.. How do you know what their response time is. You never said in the above post you rang 999. You are talking bs.

And because *I* never rang them myself, that immediately invalidates my arguement? I'm not a hermit, I do have family and friends.

If you want to call bs, feck off somewhere else unless you can prove otherwise.

JHMEG

k_mac wrote: »

No they get paid rent allowance because they can be sent to any station in ireland at 4 weeks notice.

They get paid rent allowance as it was a way of getting a pay rise without getting an actual pay rise. The GRA and an Bord Snip have publically acknowledged this. 99.9% of Gardaí never stay anywhere away from home unless they're on holidays. Ironically when they're on holidays they get an allowance to compensate for the overtime they might miss if they were on duty. My father was a garda for 38 years, and for the latter 20 years he stayed comfortably in the house he owned, despite getting rent allowance.

freighter

challengemaster wrote: »

And because *I* never rang them myself, that immediately invalidates my arguement? I'm not a hermit, I do have family and friends.

If you want to call bs, feck off somewhere else unless you can prove otherwise.

Yes it is bs you have no concrete evidence to back up your post its all hear say.

MagicSean

JHMEG wrote: »

They get paid rent allowance as it was a way of getting a pay rise without getting an actual pay rise. The GRA and an Bord Snip have publically acknowledged this. 99.9% of Gardaí never stay anywhere away from home unless they're on holidays. Ironically when they're on holidays they get an allowance to compensate for the overtime they might miss if they were on duty. My father was a garda for 38 years, and for the latter 20 years he stayed comfortably in the house he owned, despite getting rent allowance.

The GRA have spouted a lot of bull lately. Your statistics are wrong. At least 30% of the gardaí in my station live away from their family in rented accomodation. And you've shown how little you know with that crap about claiming missed overtime. That doesn't happen either.

Hooch

k_mac wrote: »

The GRA have spouted a lot of bull lately. Your statistics are wrong. At least 30% of the gardaí in my station live away from their family in rented accomodation. And you've shown how little you know with that crap about claiming missed overtime. That doesn't happen either.

While I agree in regards the rent allowance......hes right about holidays etc. We get a premium payment every year to cover this.....granted its only small but its still there.

This were going wayyyyyyyyy off topic here.....

Andrew33

k_mac wrote: »

No they get paid rent allowance because they can be sent to any station in ireland at 4 weeks notice.

Only if they're naughty and write up a TD for drink driving;)

freighter

nice guy always wrote: »

While I agree in regards the rent allowance......hes right about holidays etc. We get a premium payment every year to cover this.....granted its only small but its still there.

This were going wayyyyyyyyy off topic here.....

Time for the auld padlock;)

MagicSean

nice guy always wrote: »

While I agree in regards the rent allowance......hes right about holidays etc. We get a premium payment every year to cover this.....granted its only small but its still there.

This were going wayyyyyyyyy off topic here.....

The premium pay is for missed allowances isn't it.

Hooch

k_mac wrote: »

The premium pay is for missed allowances isn't it.

And missed overtime.

-Chris-

Thread closed. The OP's question has been answered and the rest of the Garda bashing/defending has no place in a Motors forum. Take it to ES if you want to discuss it further.