Would you recommend the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre to an abused male

CDfm

I am a bit biased here and admit it.

I have seen claims by some posters saying that DRCC is gender neutral.

This thread is really that in the light of recent comments in the media by DRCC in relation to the Hunky Dory campaign that they have a stereotypical view of men who their spokeswoman asserted could be influenced to rape by suggestive media images-even though their is no evidence to back up the statement.

It came accross as all men are rapists and also in some way that women in skimpy clothing are at risk or even asking for it which I thought weird.

(Hunky Dorys thread is here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055908545 )



My take on it is that while they offer a good service to women and may be able to deal with assaults/rapes where the perpetrator is male they are not set up for the situation where the pepetrator is female whether or not the victim is male or female. A young guy assaulted by a female relative etc would not go there as that is the message thats out there on abuse.

I dont know whether a male victim of a male attacker would go there. I suspect a female victim of a female attacker/abuser would not.

problemchimp

what makes you think they are not capable of dealing with a male being abused by a female?

CDfm

Its my impression based on the image they portray. They come accross as using the male perpetrator model.

Thats by the by. The Hunky Dory thing conjured up an image in my mind of a girl/woman being told she was asking for it (as in M'lud the alledged victim was wearing a miniskirt so it is obvious she wanted sex with my client type portrayal of men ) so men as out of control of their sexual desires.

You also here of stories of guys not being allowed on parenting courses etc because women dont want men there. I can understand part of that in some types of situations in a well young mothers and modesty/privacy in a Curves Gym (men not allowed) kind of way. In other situations it is just trite as men have every right to get parenting help too.

So if you have a guy who may not be welcome in a place & with a media portrayal by the organisation saying he is likely to be the perpetrator well he is not going to go there is he?He may feel he wont be believed before he starts. Thats what I think and its not without what I feel is valid justification.

PeakOutput

CDfm wrote: »

This thread is really that in the light of recent comments in the media by DRCC in relation to the Hunky Dory campaign that they have a stereotypical view of men who their spokeswoman asserted could be influenced to rape by suggestive media images-even though their is no evidence to back up the statement.

ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH:mad:

this is the type of statement i was talking about in the feminist thread

****ing ridicolous

Kimia

I think that if a man chooses to not seek help after being abused/assaulted because of an attempt on the DRCC's part (however misguided) to defend women, then that is very sad.

I don't think that their comments were meant to alienate men. When someone defends women it doesn't automatically mean to attack men at the same time. In Ireland today, the sexual assault of women is unchallenged, just as (I'm sure) it is of men, it just so happens that in this instance, this ad campaign relates to attitudes towards women.

“These posters add to attitudes and behaviours that make Ireland a place where the casual and everyday sexual assault of women is permitted and unchallenged,” RCNI director Fiona Neary said.

And I believe that the DRCC spoke out about the ads being 'irresponsible' and promoting 'unsafe actions' because of the fact that the ads told views to 'tackle this' while showing a very skimpily dressed woman. Organisations have to be super PC and I am sure that if there was an ad showing skantily clad men, which the DRCC felt was irresponsible, that they would speak out against it too. I have never seen an ad that was the exact mirror of the Hunky Dorys ads targeted towards women. In the Aero ad there was no invitation towards interaction with the actor, it was similar to a woman's ad for body lotion or something, the gratuitous nakedness of the guy does not ask the women viewers to 'tackle this'. I think this is where the complaint lies.

But again, for men to improve services for men, they need to ask for them and unfortunately if men don't report assault to the likes of the DRCC it's going to continue on the way it is already where men feel ashamed and embarrassed. It's the same for women. Noone wants to go to the DRCC after being assaulted, noone. But it's necessary to track statistics, to get a clear idea of the amount of PEOPLE being assaulted in Ireland, and to improve conviction rates.

So to answer your question CDfm, Yes I would recommed the DRCC to an assaulted male and anyone who doesn't is irresponsible and an idiot in my opinion. You're not making a stand, you're not showing your outrage to the DRCC for your opinions on their statement, you are just denying another man the opportunity to get help.

CDfm

PeakOutput wrote: »

this is the type of statement i was talking about in the feminist thread

Yes but it is in this context its not about advertising crisps its about promoting a victim services group.

Victims have difficulty coming forward and I dont know if its easier or harder for male or female victims but these type of statements add a "just because your paranoid doesnt mean they are not out to get you" dimension and "who will believe you" scenario.All that goes with abuse.

PeakOutput

Kimia wrote: »

I think that if a man chooses to not seek help after being abused/assaulted because of an attempt on the DRCC's part (however misguided) to defend women, then that is very sad.

if you take these comments in isolation thats fair enough but if you take them with the other statements organisations like this make and with reports that they simply dont treat men the same then it would make it very difficult for a guy who ahs heard such things to go to the center for help

Yes but it is in this context its not about advertising crisps its about promoting a victim services group.

ye but even leaving aside the sexism displayed by the center and again taking the comments in isolation they shouldn't make statements that are patently false

there is NO risk of these ads causing one extra rape in the world

Kimia

PeakOutput wrote: »

if you take them with the other statements organisations like this make and with reports that they simply dont treat men the same

Links? Evidence? That's extremely vague.

I hope that's not true. If it is then men's advocacy groups could possibly look into creating a men's only rape crisis centre? Shouldn't be necessary and if it is then I'm disappointed, but if what you're saying is true, then the only thing that matters is that these men get help and support.

CDfm

Kimia wrote: »

I think that if a man chooses to not seek help after being abused/assaulted because of an attempt on the DRCC's part (however misguided) to defend women, then that is very sad.

I agree

I don't think that their comments were meant to alienate men. When someone defends women it doesn't automatically mean to attack men at the same time. In Ireland today, the sexual assault of women is unchallenged, just as (I'm sure) it is of men, it just so happens that in this instance, this ad campaign relates to attitudes towards women.

I am not singling those comments out in isolation but saying its a cumulative affect of comments of that nature which have added to it.

And I believe that the DRCC spoke out about the ads being 'irresponsible' and promoting 'unsafe actions' because of the fact that the ads told views to 'tackle this' while showing a very skimpily dressed woman.

The Hunky Dory thread is elsewhere and I dont think the advert promoted rape or assault. There is no evidence whatsoever that adverts of this type do.

But again, for men to improve services for men, they need to ask for them and unfortunately if men don't report assault to the likes of the DRCC it's going to continue on the way it is already where men feel ashamed and embarrassed.

The DRCC is a voluntary organisation people dont ask for help from voluntary organisations organisations set themselves up to provide assistance to people in need. Its not a case where victims are going to come forward but they need encouragement. Victims dont ask to be victims.

I disagree with you that the services should be supplied on the basis of gender but can see the point of gender sensitivity. Breast checks and prostate checks are gender issues this should not be.

So to answer your question CDfm, Yes I would recommed the DRCC to an assaulted male and anyone who doesn't is irresponsible and an idiot in my opinion. You're not making a stand, you're not showing your outrage to the DRCC for your opinions on their statement, you are just denying another man the opportunity to get help.

I have been open that I believe it is biased. I dont believe the services to victims should be gender based and I am afraid they have become like that. I mean Queen Victoria signed an Act of Parliment criminalising homosexuality and it is said she could not conceptualise lesbianism. So what I am saying is that how can a group who do not display understanding that a female can abuse and a male be the victim provide that service.

I am not showing any outrage as I think they provide a usefull and much needed service to female victims and support that.

Kimia

CDfm wrote: »

I am not singling those comments out in isolation but saying its a cumulative affect of comments of that nature which have added to it.

I just asked the poster above to show where there has been other statements released by the DRCC and other organisations that are insenstive to men. If there are and it's contributing to men's hesitancy in coming forward then something needs to be done, like my male advocacy idea above.

The Hunky Dory thread is elsewhere and I dont think the advert promoted rape or assault. There is no evidence whatsoever that adverts of this type do.

I don't believe that there is a direct route from a man seeing the Hunky Dory's ad and then believing that he can go out and rape a women because she's asking for it. That's complete stupidy and I can't believe this is what the DRCC meant by it. I believe that they meant the 'tackle this' tagline was insensitive in light of the gratuitous nature of the images.

Its not a case where victims are going to come forward but they need encouragement.

I agree. How do you think this can be improved for male victims?

Victims dont ask to be victims.

Of course they don't and this was pretty unnecessary to say.

I disagree with you that the services should be supplied on the basis of gender but can see the point of gender sensitivity.

I don't think the services should be supplied on the basis of gender. I have said that if men are hesitant to seek help after being assaulted because of offence taken to statements by these organisations, then perhaps a men's advocacy group could investigate a men's only crisis centre. I think it's disappointing if it is necessary but again, it is necessary and the main objective should be to get these guys some help and support.

So what I am saying is that how can a group who do not display understanding that a female can abuse and a male be the victim provide that service.

Have they shown this? I read some of the reports they've published and it seems that they are very aware of the fact that men get abused and assaulted by women too. I don't think there's any confusion about whether men can be the victim of abuse - sadly we all know that this is a fact. I don't think it's right to accuse them of not understanding this.

CDfm

Kimia wrote: »

I just asked the poster above to show where there has been other statements released by the DRCC and other organisations that are insenstive to men. If there are and it's contributing to men's hesitancy in coming forward then something needs to be done, like my male advocacy idea above.

I thought I lost a post.

Motoring on. This is the 21st Century and DRCC gives all the appearence of supplying its services along gender lines.

I don't believe that there is a direct route from a man seeing the Hunky Dory's ad and then believing that he can go out and rape a women because she's asking for it. That's complete stupidy and I can't believe this is what the DRCC meant by it. I believe that they meant the 'tackle this' tagline was insensitive in light of the gratuitous nature of the images.

Absolutely insane thinking, it sort of could put off people coming forward and its hard for victims no matter what gender.

I agree. How do you think this can be improved for male victims?

Of course they don't and this was pretty unnecessary to say.

I don't think the services should be supplied on the basis of gender. I have said that if men are hesitant to seek help after being assaulted because of offence taken to statements by these organisations, then perhaps a men's advocacy group could investigate a men's only crisis centre. I think it's disappointing if it is necessary but again, it is necessary and the main objective should be to get these guys some help and support.

Getting rid of stereotypes helps. One of the big things would be proper gender neutral and sexual orientation neutral information and campaigns.
You dont provide addiction recovery services on gender,age or orientation lines so why this.

I am not saying DRCC was not set up by good people but they wear gender goggles from the 1960s.

Have they shown this? I read some of the reports they've published and it seems that they are very aware of the fact that men get abused and assaulted by women too. I don't think there's any confusion about whether men can be the victim of abuse - sadly we all know that this is a fact. I don't think it's right to accuse them of not understanding this.

There are loads of academic studies out there and I have quoted them loads of times on boards.

Its not about publishing reports etc but its about how an organisation acts and what it represents. I have a feeling "it" doesnt really believe" anything other than the male perpetrator model or has difficulty with it.

Its like Queen Victoria signing an Act into Law criminalsing homosexuality but a similar lesbian law was not put in place. Until the get they concept they wont change.

So what I am saying route out the gender bias and it would really make a change.When I post on some issues I am always conscious that I need to acknowledge that its not always straight forward but a huge step would be for the various groups to accept that the issues cross gender lines.

I also think it would help victims of both genders and victims of either gender seek help.


I am not convinced that a guy would get help at DRCC or a female victim of a female abuser would get help there -nothing I have seen convinces me they would..

Kimia

CDfm wrote: »

I thought I lost a post.

Motoring on. This is the 21st Century and DRCC gives all the appearence of supplying its services along gender lines.




Absolutely insane thinking, it sort of could put off people coming forward and its hard for victims no matter what gender.



Getting rid of stereotypes helps. One of the big things would be proper gender neutral and sexual orientation neutral information and campaigns.
You dont provide addiction recovery services on gender,age or orientation lines so why this.

I am not saying DRCC was not set up by good people but they wear gender goggles from the 1960s.





There are loads of academic studies out there and I have quoted them loads of times on boards.

Its not about publishing reports etc but its about how an organisation acts and what it represents. I have a feeling "it" doesnt really believe" anything other than the male perpetrator model or has difficulty with it.

Its like Queen Victoria signing an Act into Law criminalsing homosexuality but a similar lesbian law was not put in place. Until the get they concept they wont change.

So what I am saying route out the gender bias and it would really make a change.

I've made my point above. I don't think your 'feeling' that the DRCC has no interest in men and that they believe only in female victims is correct, at least I hope it's not. I've asked for proof and there has been nothing yet that I've seen to change my mind on this.

By the way, homosexuality is not gender specific. You can be a girl and be a homosexual you know. There was no need for a separate law for women.

CDfm I can see that you're passionate about men's rights and I think that's great, and necessary in today's society. But I would ask you to champion men's rights without attacking women's. I keep saying that it's possible to work towards equality for men (and women) without running down the opposite gender, and it's something I try to do myself. I will not attack men just to promote women's rights (I myself agree with several men's rights issues, one being paternity leave for example) and it would be great if others practiced the same respect for others.

CDfm

Kimia wrote: »

I've made my point above. I don't think your 'feeling' that the DRCC has no interest in men and that they believe only in female victims is correct, at least I hope it's not. I've asked for proof and there has been nothing yet that I've seen to change my mind on this.

By the way, homosexuality is not gender specific. You can be a girl and be a homosexual you know. There was no need for a separate law for women.

Thats my feeling based on how they portray themselves and I have no control over that. I do not think they are inclusive

CDfm I can see that you're passionate about men's rights and I think that's great, and necessary in today's society. But I would ask you to champion men's rights without attacking women's.

I am egalitarian and I am not attacking womens rights but pointing out that its become a little bit like Orwells Animal Farm ,how, did it go "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others." Thats the part I dont like.

I still am none the wiser why centres for victims of sexual crime need to be split on gender lines either. Its a bit Judeans Peoples Front.

By that logic it should be called the Dublin Crisis Centre for Rape of Women by Men and we would have a whole variation of the same based on the genders of the victims and perpetrator. The same with domestic violence. Wouldnt it be a lot less complicated just to treat these as issues rather than gender issues.

It seems to me that the help groups view these issues as their little power bases and seem to be more interested in the survival of their organisations first and providing services is a secondary aim.

Nevyn

Yes.
I have and I will again.
I know men personally who have recieved much needed help there and then went on to
when healed enough to help out on the Rape Crises Centre's helpline.
I think people are too quick to jump to the assumption that stating men who are abusers and rape are bad is the same as stating men are bad.

CDfm

So they would not have contacted it without your intervention and that is part of the problem, a man would probably need a referal. Thats not right to control the provision of services by gender.

Were the abusers male or female?

Have you ever recommended to a female who has been abused by a female to go there.

Nevyn

I know of men whom I have referred and who went there long before they ever meet me.
As for men needing to be told to go, there is still a perception that only women get raped or sexually assaulted and that's a societal thing.

Yes, I have referred people of different genders and some of those were attacked by members of their own gender or family members.

The referring people that I do here on this site is merely an extension from what I have done in real life for the last 18 years or so. A lot of people don't know where to go or what info they need until something like this happens to them or someone close and then they panic and go looking for info and chances are will want to get it from someone they know of and trust. Someone who has some experience of the system and can reassure them.

As for man who was abused by a female relative it's a shame he didn't have someone who could be that for him and to urge him to get help. When ever we are going somewhere strange and unfamilar we always look for information from those who have been there to help guide us. We see the same here on various forums where people look to read the shared experiences of others to better equip themselves for what is to come.

Maybe the RCC network should put up a section doing this have "mary" and "john" speak about their experiences of the services so that the process is a bit easier for people to go get help.

Kimia

CDfm you are grasping at straws in your last post. You asking with this thread if anyone would recommend the DRCC to an abused male. Thaed said yes, she did, and she would do so again.

From that, where did you assume that the men in question needed a referral and that these services are controlled by gender??

CDfm

Kimia wrote: »

CDfm you are grasping at straws in your last post. You asking with this thread if anyone would recommend the DRCC to an abused male. Thaed said yes, she did, and she would do so again.

From that, where did you assume that the men in question needed a referral and that these services are controlled by gender??

I am asking genuine questions - I would have reservations sending a bloke there so I am being straight up about it. My reservations are based on how the organisation conducts itself.

So I would be prudent and look for other options.

Now its not my fault if organisations are percieved or portray themselves along gender or sexual orientation lines.

That their client group has a 90 /10 female /male split just shows that males are not coming forward.

Dont take it up with me take it up with Esther Rantzen and Childline -I am asking why

So ChildLine counsellors believed that far too many boys and young men were reluctant to disclose a problem until it became so overwhelming that they felt life was not worth living. That is why we have focused on boys – with so much success that the number counselled has reached an all-time high of more than 58,000.
Last year, more than half the boys who rang disclosing sexual abuse reported that they had been abused by women. The most common female perpetrator – in almost 1,000 cases – was the boy's mother. Among the boys who reported being sexually abused by a man (almost the same number of callers), the most common perpetrator was the father – again, in about 1,000 incidents. Both shocking statistics.
How can we help these children? Certainly not by refusing to discuss the problem in the hope that it will disappear.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/09/boys-sexual-abuse-childline

problemchimp

CDfm wrote: »

I am asking genuine questions - I would have reservations sending a bloke there so I am being straight up about it. My reservations are based on how the organisation conducts itself.

So I would be prudent and look for other options.

Now its not my fault if organisations are percieved or portray themselves along gender or sexual orientation lines.

That their client group has a 90 /10 female /male split just shows that males are not coming forward.

Dont take it up with me take it up with Esther Rantzen and Childline -I am asking why

you say that the organisation is percieved or portray themselves along gender lines. you also say you wouldn't send a bloke there because of how the organisation conducts itself. I as a man think you are talking out of your hole. I would recomend any bloke to use their services if he was assaulted by a woman. The organisation conducts itself the way it should and I don't see a problem with that . They are there to help all victims but it just so happens that the vast majority are women. You haven't posted any thing here that justifies your opinion so therefore I think you are being a bit paronoid about women. Answer me this, if your best male friend told you he was raped, what advice would you give him?

CDfm

problemchimp wrote: »

You haven't posted any thing here that justifies your opinion so therefore I think you are being a bit paronoid about women.

It is my honest opinion. I have never said that I am not a little biased.

I may be wrong but I feel the stereotype has something to do with it.

Tell me this -why dont guys report and how many females have been prosecuted in the past 12 months for sexual assault of males or females. It is not because it doesnt happen.

So you tell me why people (victims) are not reporting ???

I would love to be proved wrong.

Do you have a solution - should they maybe advertise the service to male victims more?

Answer me this, if your best male friend told you he was raped, what advice would you give him?

First stop would be report it and second to go to a GP/hospital.I would offer to go along too.

It would then depend on the support needed or what was available.

EDIT - I came accross this website NEHB -which stated

"as a general rule it is the husband or partner "

and is peppered with he this and he that.

http://www.nehb.ie/youthhealthne/safety%20domestic%20violence.htm

So where do you go when this is the ingrained attitude and is factually disproved by studies.

Here is what Psychiatry Today says

Men Shouldn't Be Overlooked as Victims of Partner Violence

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/42/15/31.2.full?eaf

NamelessPhil

The DRCC keeps statistics on how many men contact them and whether they see male clients. The last posted data is from 2008.

Their FAQ states that they do have male clients.

"FAQs

4. Does the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre see male clients?

The Dublin Rape Crisis Centre welcomes male clients for one-to-one counselling and group therapy. Currently 12% of our clients are male and we are committed to see this expanding as awareness of male victims of rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment and childhood sexual abuse increases."

Pages 27 -29 of the the most recent report from 2008 here give the statistics for the relationship between victim and offender for those attending the counselling service and 92 who reported the incident to the Gardai. In both cases no mother or sister had been an abuser.

They also frequently look for volunteers to help out and if anyone feels strongly that they could help, I would suggest that they volunteer. You can contact the centre by phone 01 661 4911 or email at: volunteerservices@rcc.ie.

CDfm

I think that when it omes to abuse definitions in Ireland you have a man as the abuser and that attitude seems to be pervasive throughout society and it certainly ame thru to me on the DRCC spokeswoman on Hunky Dorys .

I read the report and certainly the Chief Executives statement and noticeable in its absence in the thanked organisations list is Amen the helpline for abused men.

@nameless phil what we can safely say is that men and boys who were abused or are currently being abused by a female abuser are not coming forward. Is it also the case that women/girls who are/were abused by a female abuser are not coming forward.

I am not against DRCC and they do a lot of good work but when they say just 1 in 10 of people who are raped come forward the figure is closer to 0 in 10 when the abuser is female.