Cut backs

Deise Tom

Have not seen a tread on possible cutbacks that Brian Lenihan has asked each minister to come up with in the next month, to save up to three billion euro.

Just wondering, what would getting rid of town councils right across the country save and merge them with County Councils save? Some councillors are double jobbing as it is, sitting on town and county councils.

Surely by having just one council they would have little to fear. If they were any good at the job they are doing, the people would see it and automatically elect them onto the county council. If they are not elected, then its a sign that the people see they are not good at the job and deserve to go.

In having just one council, there should not be extra seats on county council created.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

douglashyde

They should privatise the entire public service; we might actually have a working country that way.

Welease

I would have hoped by this stage the bulk of it could have come from the reforms we were promised, and have no need for further cuts..

But we still seem to be talking about the reforms... and the need to reform without actually changing any conditions....

Cut away...

ardmacha

Amalgamating and coordinating local authorities seems a good way to proceed, not because of the councillors removed, but the staff and plant savings. There are significant differences in local authority performance, those in charge of the more efficient divisions should be put in charge of these merged bodies.

Deise Tom

We have about 1,600 local representatives in Ireland, over 160 TD's and sixty senators. for a country of our size that is forever too many. People talk about abolishing the senate and saving money that way. Almost every country has two houses in which laws have to be passed, you would have to ask yourself why is this, and if every other country has them would it be wrong to get rid of ours. Maybe the numbers could be cut, but the real savings could be made at a local level. Anyone know what a local public representative gets each year in basic pay. Add in expenses etc which should and cutting the numbers we have, some mighty savings could be made.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Have not seen a tread on possible cutbacks that Brian Lenihan has asked each minister to come up with in the next month, to save up to three billion euro.

Just wondering, what would getting rid of town councils right across the country save and merge them with County Councils save? Some councillors are double jobbing as it is, sitting on town and county councils.

Surely by having just one council they would have little to fear. If they were any good at the job they are doing, the people would see it and automatically elect them onto the county council. If they are not elected, then its a sign that the people see they are not good at the job and deserve to go.

In having just one council, there should not be extra seats on county council created.

if you happen to be a member of both county and town councils, you DONT get a payment for both!! no saving there!
p.s. town councillors get paid a pittance!

oppenheimer1

Deise Tom wrote: »

Have not seen a tread on possible cutbacks that Brian Lenihan has asked each minister to come up with in the next month, to save up to three billion euro.

Just wondering, what would getting rid of town councils right across the country save and merge them with County Councils save? Some councillors are double jobbing as it is, sitting on town and county councils.

Surely by having just one council they would have little to fear. If they were any good at the job they are doing, the people would see it and automatically elect them onto the county council. If they are not elected, then its a sign that the people see they are not good at the job and deserve to go.

In having just one council, there should not be extra seats on county council created.

Well its not exactly news, it was flagged at the last budget there would be need for further cuts this time, in addition to further cuts next year. Its all set out in the plan the government presented to the EU commission. I wonder where the axe will fall, Lenihan must be wary of cutting too deep considering whats happening in Greece. I don't think they'll go after the PS again, this time around.

oppenheimer1

Deise Tom wrote: »

We have about 1,600 local representatives in Ireland, over 160 TD's and sixty senators. for a country of our size that is forever too many. People talk about abolishing the senate and saving money that way. Almost every country has two houses in which laws have to be passed, you would have to ask yourself why is this, and if every other country has them would it be wrong to get rid of ours. Maybe the numbers could be cut, but the real savings could be made at a local level. Anyone know what a local public representative gets each year in basic pay. Add in expenses etc which should and cutting the numbers we have, some mighty savings could be made.

Mighty savings? Do you know how much it costs to run the Oireachtas? In the grand scheme of things, not much. You'd end up saving a few million at best. We need to be looking at cuts that will save a few billion. The axe needs to fall on the dole and pensions. They are far too extravagant.

lmimmfn

tax increases for everyone is on the agenda for the next budget and the one after that, expect to be a lot poorer in 2 years time

doc_17

douglashyde wrote: »

They should privatise the entire public service; we might actually have a working country that way.

Yeah great solution. Then schools would only have to teach the rich, smart children thus saving fortunes by not having to teach the children will special needs. No more learning suppport or additional resources. And of course the facilities for the poor would just spring magically oout of the ground.

And hospitals could only treat rich people who can afford it. Then we could let the sick and infirm just die thereby reducing welfare payments, freeing up hospital beds and reducing the need for staff so the company can make more money.

And also since the entire PS is in private hands there would never have been any bailout of the private sector. Think how many millions, or is that billions, the country would have saved by not rescuing Anglo and others.

What a great idea. Privatise the entire public sector. There is no way to quantify the brilliance of that suggestion.

Scarab80

doc_17 wrote: »

Yeah great solution. Then schools would only have to teach the rich, smart children thus saving fortunes by not having to teach the children will special needs. No more learning suppport or additional resources. And of course the facilities for the poor would just spring magically oout of the ground.

And hospitals could only treat rich people who can afford it. Then we could let the sick and infirm just die thereby reducing welfare payments, freeing up hospital beds and reducing the need for staff so the company can make more money.

And also since the entire PS is in private hands there would never have been any bailout of the private sector. Think how many millions, or is that billions, the country would have saved by not rescuing Anglo and others.

What a great idea. Privatise the entire public sector. There is no way to quantify the brilliance of that suggestion.

As an aside what is your opinion of the Fine Gael faircare policy, privitisation combined with Universal Health Insurance?

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

if you happen to be a member of both county and town councils, you DONT get a payment for both!! no saving there!
p.s. town councillors get paid a pittance!

What exactly is pittance. Every cent saved is a bonus and would mean that others who may be hard up will not have to be affected more.

Head The Wall

Deise Tom wrote: »

What exactly is pittance. Every cent saved is a bonus and would mean that others who may be hard up will not have to be affected more.

Clare County council recently published their expenses on line, sixteen councillers went to a conference in Dunadry, Co Antrim at the one time. They all claimed from €750 - €1000 each, there is no way in hell it costs that to go away for a weekend. A lot of it was probably mileage expenses which begs the question why wasn't a bus organised and I sincerely doubt all sixteen of them drove up on their own. More likely is they car pooled and take turns driving yet they all claim mileage every time.

Deise Tom

Head The Wall wrote: »

Clare County council recently published their expenses on line, sixteen councillers went to a conference in Dunadry, Co Antrim at the one time. They all claimed from €750 - €1000 each, there is no way in hell it costs that to go away for a weekend. A lot of it was probably mileage expenses which begs the question why wasn't a bus organised and I sincerely doubt all sixteen of them drove up on their own. More likely is they car pooled and take turns driving yet they all claim mileage every time.

Thats a disgrace. The parties of those responsible should pull them in. How can they justify such money been paid out. And i bet they were not all from the one party either.

doc_17

Scarab80 wrote: »

As an aside what is your opinion of the Fine Gael faircare policy, privitisation combined with Universal Health Insurance?

I don't know enough about it to be honest.

Head The Wall

Deise Tom wrote: »

Thats a disgrace. The parties of those responsible should pull them in. How can they justify such money been paid out. And i bet they were not all from the one party either.

A Labour councillor in Galway Billy Crowe was collecting mileage expenses for travelling to conferences even though he doesn't own a car.

Labour councillor manipulating expenses

Deise Tom

The details of the 2009 expenses played in County Waterford, are as follows.

There was 29 Councillors on the council in 2009.
11 Fine Gael Councillors recieved €348,858 and 91c between them or an average of €31,717 and 47c each.
9 Fianna Fail Councillors recieved €168,800 and 84 cent betwen them or an average of €18,755 and 65c each.
5 Labour councillors recieved €107,129 and 26c between them or an average of €21,425 and 85c each
2 Sinn Fein Councillors recieved €32,982 and 88c between them or an average of 16,491 and 44c each.
1 Non Party or Independent Councillor recieved €15,399 and 32c.
On average, each councillor recieved €23212 and 80c.

5 of the 29 councillors, did not go on any Junkets during the year. 2 of these were Sinn Fein Councillors (who i understand do not go on any in any council), 2 were labour councilors, and 1 was Fianna Fail. Of the Five, 1 did not seek re-election in june, 1 was not returned, and 1 was newly elected in June.

I must see are the figures for Waterford City, Tramore Town Council, Dungarvan Town Council and Lismore Town Council available on the net anyplace, to compare and contrast.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

The details of the 2009 expenses played in County Waterford, are as follows.

There was 29 Councillors on the council in 2009.
11 Fine Gael Councillors recieved €348,858 and 91c between them or an average of €31,717 and 47c each.
9 Fianna Fail Councillors recieved €168,800 and 84 cent betwen them or an average of €18,755 and 65c each.
5 Labour councillors recieved €107,129 and 26c between them or an average of €21,425 and 85c each
2 Sinn Fein Councillors recieved €32,982 and 88c between them or an average of 16,491 and 44c each.
1 Non Party or Independent Councillor recieved €15,399 and 32c.
On average, each councillor recieved €23212 and 80c.

5 of the 29 councillors, did not go on any Junkets during the year. 2 of these were Sinn Fein Councillors (who i understand do not go on any in any council), 2 were labour councilors, and 1 was Fianna Fail. Of the Five, 1 did not seek re-election in june, 1 was not returned, and 1 was newly elected in June.

I must see are the figures for Waterford City, Tramore Town Council, Dungarvan Town Council and Lismore Town Council available on the net anyplace, to compare and contrast.

how much do you think co councillors should get paid?
p.s. there are a couple of glaring inaccuracies in your post!!

Head The Wall

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

how much do you think co councillors should get paid?
p.s. there are a couple of glaring inaccuracies in your post!!

If you are going to try and justify councillors expenses then please give us some proper info. I think a lot of councillors would view their expenses as their wages for being a councillor.

Somebody chooses to be a councillor, they don't have to be. The Councillor Michael "Stroke" Fahy is still waiting a retrial on his fraud case.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

how much do you think co councillors should get paid?
p.s. there are a couple of glaring inaccuracies in your post!!

Point them out. Do you want me to name the councillors and to saw what each got inclusive of expenses on junkets and additional payments for serving as Mayors, vice Mayors and for serving as Chairmen/persons of certain committees.

The_Honeybadger

@OP reform of our political and local authority systems may well happen, but that is more about planning for the future, the savings would be a drop in the ocean when you consider a 20bn budget deficit. Our structural deficit is at least 12bn, as we could expect a higher tax take in the order of 5-10bn with recovery, so 12bn is what needs to be cut to have a sustainable economy, we won't do that by cutting the number of local councillors. The real savings are to be made by cutting the cost of our public services, reductions in SW and pensions, as well as bringing lowerpaid (under 35-40k which includes myself) into the tax net. These are back of an envelope calculations but broadly accurate I would think, it is a very difficult task to take this much out of the economy without upsetting a great number of people so we may see alot of social unrest and PS strikes going forward. However I would also question the resolve of government to stick with the plan they have agreed with the EU to make these cuts over the next few years.

Head The Wall

People in general wouldn't have an issue if Public money was spent reasonably. Councillor expenses are just a scam and are therefore a waste. It's akin to welfare fraud in my eyes, they are getting the money but not legally

Jaysoose

Head The Wall wrote: »

People in general wouldn't have an issue if Public money was spent reasonably. Councillor expenses are just a scam and are therefore a waste. It's akin to welfare fraud in my eyes, they are getting the money but not legally

BUt they will trot out the old 'im entitled to this expense' line even though they know they are ripping off the nation while attending a very important conference where nothing is decided and they get to have a piss up on tax money.

maninasia

So they should have a set budget every year for expenses, anything over and you pay yourself.

bondjames

lmimmfn wrote: »

tax increases for everyone is on the agenda for the next budget and the one after that, expect to be a lot poorer in 2 years time

Have to agree
The options are
1) 5% pay cut for 350k public sector
Or
2) Tax rise for 1.8 million tax payers (everybody will pay tax not just 50% of workers)
it will be option 2 as there is no way they are going to hit the public sector twice so private sector get ready to pay your way

Head The Wall

maninasia wrote: »

So they should have a set budget every year for expenses, anything over and you pay yourself.

There should be no budget at all. They should have to prove there is a valid point to every junket they go on. They will all just spend up to the budget limit becasuse it is there. Bar a few with morals maybe (if they exist)