poaching

cbrjohnthou

Are the wildlife Rangers doing enough to prevent poaching, I have been shooting for most of my life and have never been stopped by a Ranger anywhere near my stalking ground. The only place I ever see Rangers are the areas that are being used for commercial Deer stalking,or National Parks, these seem to be the only areas that the Rangers bothered to protect.

Rovi

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Thread moved to Hunting
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jwshooter

the problem is there under staffed and under funded to prevent wildlife crime ,kinda defeats there purpose i know .

its not the ranger thats on the ground at fault as there is "some " that give there own time to help .
there is a few that go out of there way to help and there in the job for the right reasons . they cant be thanked enough .

the problem is no interest at the top .

johngalway

What would you suggest they do? I'm not being flippant, as I know very little about the subject. But, Ireland is a big spot, with a limited amount of rangers.

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

What would you suggest they do? I'm not being flippant, as I know very little about the subject. But, Ireland is a big spot, with a limited amount of rangers.

My Rangers RANGE is thousands of Hectares. one Man, hard Job, but their job entails more than Deer Management the manage all wild life!

cbrjohnthou

johngalway wrote: »

What would you suggest they do? I'm not being flippant, as I know very little about the subject. But, Ireland is a big spot, with a limited amount of rangers.

Well I don't know much about their resources or funding etc, but I am wondering if funding is a problem then why don't some of the money being made on commercial shooting go towards paying for more Rangers. Does Coilte pay anything towards their resources? I can't afford to shoot on Coilte land or even pay to shoot a nice head, but the few deer that I do stalk are constantly being lamped which has meant the decline in anyway descent antler qualty, or deer quantity for that matter!

meathstevie

If you're asking if individual rangers do enough I've no doubt they do. Problem is there isn't half enough of them or Gardai dedicated to "rural or wildlife crime" ( read poaching ). When push comes to shove a poacher would be a juicy catch for a Garda as well, there's not only the wildlife acts related offences, quite often there'll be firearms offences as well.

cbrjohnthou

yeah maybe I should have said 'is enough being done to prevent poaching' I wasn't having a go at the Ranger as an individual but perhaps at how they are being dispersed. I have never seen one, let alone be approached by one where I shoot. I know exactly where I will come across a Ranger and I also know when I won't. If I know when and where these guys are then so do the poachers. The only way to have any effect on poaching is to approach it from a poachers angle, it will never be stopped, but why make it easy for them.

If coilte bring in so much money by charging ridiculous money for leases then surely it is in their best interest to take a more active approach. Why can't they set up there own Rangers to protect their woods leaving NPWS Rangers to do their job in areas where they are badly needed.

CJhaughey

shank1 wrote: »

If coilte bring in so much money by charging ridiculous money for leases then surely it is in their best interest to take a more active approach. Why can't they set up there own Rangers to protect their woods leaving NPWS Rangers to do their job in areas where they are badly needed.

The simple answer is that Coillte don't really give a monkeys if the deer are all shot out, as long as they can get good money from stalkers to shoot deer off their ground then they are happy.
Besides employing your own Rangers is not really a simple operation, you are talking about firearms and possible lawbreaking, not really a job for a rent-a-ranger.

doyle61

well i was told by a farmer where i have permission that the area where i hunt is being pounded by lampers. im one of the few that have permission to shoot this area and a stalker from the nearby said its one of the best spots in the entire area. if he knows this then surely the garda and rangers know this aswell so it should be easy eneough to catch the poachers.
another farmer was telling me that years ago you couldnt come down the mountain road in the morning without a ranger stopping you. begs the question.......was there more rangers years ago or was it better use of resourses years ago but something defenetally has to be done about the lamping problem

underthetumb

havin problems with people lampin down my way aswell, plenty at it, problem is they are so ignorant to what they are doin, had a lad tell me in a pub that he shot 8 one NIGHT, he is sellin them to a game dealer in clane. when i told him my 2 cents he didnt care. they have no interest in stalking or in deer, dollars is all. problem is how do you tackle such pig ignorant ppl, who unfortunatly carry a firearm

doyle61

i reackon that if they think theres a high chance of them getting caught and loosing everything..........permit, rifle the lot......it'll put a big dint into the numbers out lamping. the rangers know the areas where there are problems, the poachers are obviously using the same areas so it shouldnt be too hard to catch them.
as i said before, a farmer was telling me that years ago the rangers were stopping cars coming down the mountain road where he lives checking for poachers........ild like to know are there less rangers or what way are the resourses being utalised

underthetumb

your right, if even one lad got caught and lost his permit, licence, firearm etc, the news would spread like wildfire. and you would like to think it would have some impact on their (hobby). it would be uplifting to see some sction being done. even the sight of a rangers van knockin about

daveob007

just thinking about the guy who was in court last year for shooting pidgeon over stubble,,was it a ranger who caught him or the gardai.
he won his case anyway but just curious as to who might have caught and prosecuted him.

doyle61

in fairness, whoever caught him it was a bit of a crap case.....from the outside anyway. i mean half the piggions in the country are only flying rats:eek:. now if hes known for poaching phesents etc and they were after him for a while and this was the only time they caught him, then i can understand bringing him to court but think the ranger/gardas time would have been better spent catching some deer poachers instead.
the uncle works in the forstery and he was telling me yesterday about once finding three deer carcases in the ditch (heads missing:mad:) one morning. again poaching but to make matters worse dumping the beast after is totally criminal.

cbrjohnthou

well I'm glad to see that a lot of guys are of the same opinion as myself:). The Rangers and Garda need to take a tougher approach to this whole area. I am still of the opinion that the areas used for commercial stalking are def getting more attention/protection than the small bits of private shooting that people like myself have.

jwshooter

are you all handicapped ? . whats stopping u looking after your own ground .we spend many a long nite on poaching patrols the gards and rangers are very helpfull .

ring the local ranger/garda station tell them you have a problem,tell your going to be out ,tell your going to be calling on them .

take down numbers ,make it awkward for them .you cant stop them on the roads buy u can on your ground .

this issue is talked to death , the bottom line is if the stalkers are not prepared to look after there own ground ,no one is going to do it for you.

underthetumb

i know what your sayin jw, however its difficult when you approach some of these ppl, and they have an attitude with you. it would be good to hear of some of them being made an example of. i keep good tabs on my permission, and have had words with some of them, but they pay no heed. i have reported regs, but i still see the same old jeeps knockin around

cbrjohnthou

I aint Handicapped anyway JW, ARE YOU? I have reported poaching on several occasions and nothing ever came of it.

some of us are new to Boards and don,t know what has been discussed in the past, we are entitled to post whatever comments we like and debate whatever subjects we want.

Its comments like yours that make things like wildlife crime go on and on without little regard. raising the subject time after time is no harm as it helps to keep it in the spotlight.

If this subject doesn't suit you then don't have to read this thread let alone pass useless comments.

jwshooter

shank1 wrote: »

I aint Handicapped anyway JW, ARE YOU? I have reported poaching on several occasions and nothing ever came of it.

some of us are new to Boards and don,t know what has been discussed in the past, we are entitled to post whatever comments we like and debate whatever subjects we want.

Its comments like yours that make things like wildlife crime go on and on without little regard. raising the subject time after time is no harm as it helps to keep it in the spotlight.

If this subject doesn't suit you then don't have to read this thread let alone pass useless comments.

i say your new to stalking as well as boards ,to read through your posts on this thread.

my comments are the way to go about stopping it ,u say you reported poaching in the past and noting was done .to who did u report it to ? npws/garda .

there is both garda and npws rangers on boards and this might be news to them .

on my phone i have the number of the duty ranger ,some personal numbers for rangers that will go out of there way to help .
the local garda station and some personal numbers of the local guards on duty .these people will help if u do your bit .

you say u know where to find rangers and where not to find them ,again im interested where ? .

also please give a run down on the incident ,when u stopped poachers on your ground .

fodda

Go out ......take numbers ......ring guards.....take camera for photos......take mate with you for evidence.

Whats the big deal??

cbrjohnthou

jwshooter wrote: »

i say your new to stalking as well as boards ,to read through your posts on this thread.

my comments are the way to go about stopping it ,u say you reported poaching in the past and noting was done .to who did u report it to ? npws/garda .

there is both garda and npws rangers on boards and this might be news to them .

on my phone i have the number of the duty ranger ,some personal numbers for rangers that will go out of there way to help .
the local garda station and some personal numbers of the local guards on duty .these people will help if u do your bit .

you say u know where to find rangers and where not to find them ,again im interested where ? .

also please give a run down on the incident ,when u stopped poachers on your ground .

I am 47 next month and started stalking in my 20's so NO I'm not new to stalking. I did give it up for a while due to a motorbike accident but since moving to tipp I decided to give it another go.I am the first to admit I don't know all there is which is why I joined boards, to learn from experienced stalkers.

I already stated I have no problem with the rangers as individuals but perhaps how they are dispersed.

We all want the same thing here , which is to stop poaching, so I don't see why bringing up the subject raised such an issue.
I didn't stop anyone on my ground, I did the same as underthethumb and gave regs.

jwshooter

get to know the stalkers next door if there ok , work together , every one do a little .the poachers will soon get the message .

i have often spent all nite at it , i dont mind this it goes with the territory .

shoot any animals along the road bounds at the start of the start of the season ,dont hunt the core/safe part of your ground until you have whacked the silly lads looking at the cars .

cbrjohnthou

thats a bit more like it JW all I'm after is some info, we are all in the same boat.

jwshooter

i stalk some parts tip ,where u at pm might be best

cbrjohnthou

moved to Nenagh last oct, Only just copped that I still had wex as my location, thats the yella belly in me:D:D:D( old habits die hard) UP WEXFORD. settings are screwed up at the mo on boards, I,ll pm when I get it sorted.

jwshooter

shank1 wrote: »

moved to Nenagh last oct, Only just copped that I still had wex as my location, thats the yella belly in me:D:D:D( old habits die hard) UP WEXFORD. settings are screwed up at the mo on boards, I,ll pm when I get it sorted.

nena ,know it well . puckion and that area .

Half-cocked

Friend of mine caught a poacher shooting a sika from his (my friends) high seat! Reported to Gardai and NPWS, no action taken - he had the poachers reg from following him back to his car. A few months later he was at the agm of one of the deer associations and was surprized to see the culprit in attendance, ranting about lack of action against poachers by the NPWS. Well he should know, shouldn't he:mad: Bloody hypocrit.

anmaorbeag

There are less rangers than before and decreasing with retirements and no recruitment. In different parts of the country lamping patrols and general wildlife act enforcement vary greatly depending on set work priorities, resources, atitude of ranger and/or managers etc. Definately Patrol your own ground, give as much info to ranger/gardai as possible. Where there is a problem that you feel is not being tackled after reporting it etc, make an official complaint to NPWS Head Office and/or local politicians etc. If you want to keep this on the agenda let the powers that be know - a lot of them are too happy to let the public think NPWS are out there enforcing the Wildlife Act when they are doing very very little. Its the same for hare lurching, badger digging, finch trapping and most stuff under the Wildlife Acts. A FOI for prosecutions taken by the Wildlife Service and Gardai under the WA for the last 20 years for different parts of the country would tell a lot about what your local ranger thinks about the Wildlife Act.

Deerhunter2

anmaorbeag wrote: »

There are less rangers than before and decreasing with retirements and no recruitment. In different parts of the country lamping patrols and general wildlife act enforcement vary greatly depending on set work priorities, resources, atitude of ranger and/or managers etc. Definately Patrol your own ground, give as much info to ranger/gardai as possible. Where there is a problem that you feel is not being tackled after reporting it etc, make an official complaint to NPWS Head Office and/or local politicians etc. If you want to keep this on the agenda let the powers that be know - a lot of them are too happy to let the public think NPWS are out there enforcing the Wildlife Act when they are doing very very little. Its the same for hare lurching, badger digging, finch trapping and most stuff under the Wildlife Acts. A FOI for prosecutions taken by the Wildlife Service and Gardai under the WA for the last 20 years for different parts of the country would tell a lot about what your local ranger thinks about the Wildlife Act.

you don't happen to work in the gaeltacht?:D
couldn't agree more, in some areas the rangers are doing no wildlife act stuff. managers don't care and tell rangers not to bother with it. the rangers that do work hard at it put themselves at great risk, some have suffered very badly at the hands of poachers, not physically but campaigns have been strted to destroy certain active rangers. there are very few cases getting to court for deer poaching and all seem to be in wicklow and the same ranger seems to be involved in them all. i know of 2 cases over there in the last couple of months, one well known poacher in the area was prosecuted for €500 and lost his licences and two others were fined €1800 and €2400 and lost two very expensive rifles after a hard fought case by the defending nargc solicitor:eek:, there has never been so few ranger in ireland since the wildlife act was created, and now they have so much other stuff to do that the wildlife act is bottom of the pile, and then there's all the areas with no rangers at all and they have to try keep the paper work going in those areas. as for rangers covering only certain areas, thats what the are told to do, it's hard for them to catch poachers from a desk.

jwshooter

Deerhunter2 wrote: »

you don't happen to work in the gaeltacht?:D
couldn't agree more, in some areas the rangers are doing no wildlife act stuff. managers don't care and tell rangers not to bother with it. the rangers that do work hard at it put themselves at great risk, some have suffered very badly at the hands of poachers, not physically but campaigns have been strted to destroy certain active rangers. there are very few cases getting to court for deer poaching and all seem to be in wicklow and the same ranger seems to be involved in them all. i know of 2 cases over there in the last couple of months, one well known poacher in the area was prosecuted for €500 and lost his licences and two others were fined €1800 and €2400 and lost two very expensive rifles after a hard fought case by the defending nargc solicitor:eek:, there has never been so few ranger in ireland since the wildlife act was created, and now they have so much other stuff to do that the wildlife act is bottom of the pile, and then there's all the areas with no rangers at all and they have to try keep the paper work going in those areas. as for rangers covering only certain areas, thats what the are told to do, it's hard for them to catch poachers from a desk.

one ranger in galway area that did a lot of work to stop poaching and wildlife crime , came the centre of a campaign to dirty his name .

the few in wicklow that are active do so on there own time as well , the rest should have taken a job in the passport office .

its all coming from the top down ,i do think it would be a frustrating job to have .

cbrjohnthou

I honestly don't think its the attitude of the Ranger him/herself, I think if they weren't bothered in doing their duties as a ranger then they would never have taken the job in the first place.I reckon the Ranger has to cover whatever ground they are told to cover, well thats only a presumption, I don't have a clue how they are dispersed, but they must have someone deciding who' is placed where. Maybe JW is right, maybe the problem is at the top.

johngalway

jwshooter wrote: »

its all coming from the top down

Sh1t runs downhill as the saying goes.

Deerhunter2

when your at the bottom of the ladder, look up and you'll see nothing but assholes, and what comes from assholes?....:D

jwshooter

i have no problem with some one shooting a yearling or two to feed there family .

the problem is organised gangs killing hundreds of deer a year ,some of the same are getting section 42s for out of season shooting and even lamping licences .

i know of at least one gold medal sika shot with such a lamping licence ,the guy that shot it bragged about doing it ,i even got a picture of it 3 hand via pic mess.we find many shot animals along the road over a season ,how many more run into the nite baldly shot

why dont the deer groups ,countryside alliance , nargc wake up and lobby the npws and garda to stop wildlife/gun crime .

we have a green party trying to stop the potential death of one or two deer a year or a potential accident .there is a far more potential danger from ass holes driving around in the middle of the nite ,shooting at every flash of eyes they see.

there will be some one badly hurt or kill yet as it is out of control .

if tracy hogan wants a story there is one hear.

landkeeper

but the problem is not confined to lamping deer i live in a fairly open area with big fields alot of which rise up from the road ,as a result it's a favored area for eejits lamping whatever, but supposedly foxes from the back of a van or suchlike , i agree it won't be long before someone is killed or seriously hurt by such as these , there are too many idiots in the countryside at night with lamps who have no right or reason to be there
a couple of years ago my bedroom window was lamped at 12pm i challenged the lads who were by that time in a field down the road amongst a couple of hundred ewes and lambs to be told they were after foxes ,
one with a centrfire 22 ,one with a lamp and one with a semi auto 12g ,after i finished frothing at the mouth it turns out they were from 30 something miles away and had no idea where they were other than they were in'888888'
it beggars belief sometimes now lads seem to get a 223 or swift at the drop of a hat utter madness in my book

mister gullible

'Professional poachers' are doing a lot of damage. However they have to have a market for the deer. What's the story with game dealers? It would surely be easier to police the game dealers properly than to patrol thousands of square miles of land. Are the game dealers being properly regulated (a dirty word in Ireland).

Deerhunter2

professional poachers have deer licences and they can't be taken from them unless they are convicted, once they meet the requirements to get a licence they can't be refused even if the ranger knows they are the biggest poacher in the country, the game dealers are above board for the most part, some dodgy dealing going on with stags in the closed season and heads being removed. those that lose their licences put the deer through their buddies licence, it's impossible to regulate:rolleyes:

arrowloopboy

There is a simple solution to this problem.

A tagging system ,like with Salmon fishing.

Each stalking licence issued ,a set of tags are also issued ,say 10.
When you shoot an animal,you apply a tag to the carcus,the tag is numbered and relates to you and you only.
You are issued with a log book ,you record your used tags and return the unused tags.
If you sell an animal,tag is recorded.
If your caught in posession of an untagged animal,your prossecuted.
If a game dealer is caught in posession of an untagged animal,their prossecuted/shut down.

If the powers that be were intrested in stamping out poaching,
this would be a massive start.

Simples.

doyle61

i like your idea. in theory itld be a great start and it would work but unfortantly i dont think it'll work in paractic. there are that many deer being lamped these days, and everyone and their dog knows that this type of poaching is going on and they still arent getting caught, so i dont think some tags are going to stop them. granted about untagged deer in game keepers premises, that would defenetally work as long as inspections regularly take place.
the only way to frighten anyone, weither it be drink driving etc or poaching, is the probability of getting caught........not just a chance but a real probability. that means more patrols and spot checks especially in known poached areas at different times including nights.

jwshooter

arrowloopboy wrote: »

There is a simple solution to this problem.

A tagging system ,like with Salmon fishing.

Each stalking licence issued ,a set of tags are also issued ,say 10.
When you shoot an animal,you apply a tag to the carcus,the tag is numbered and relates to you and you only.
You are issued with a log book ,you record your used tags and return the unused tags.
If you sell an animal,tag is recorded.
If your caught in posession of an untagged animal,your prossecuted.
If a game dealer is caught in posession of an untagged animal,their prossecuted/shut down.

If the powers that be were intrested in stamping out poaching,
this would be a massive start.

Simples.

does not work ,has been tryed years ago

pat58

Have to agree with jw , It has being tried and didnt work,

landkeeper

just make the sale of wild venison illegal like the scots did with geese
discuss

iwsf

more Garda patrols and more rangers would be the only solution in my opinion together with tags as previously mentionned. But again last time a Garda stopped me on the road to check insurance etc.. was over 5 years ago so patrols at night to look for poachers will most likely not happen.
Back in France you see very often armed rangers patroling the countryside, same in Poland. I am fairly new to stalking but when i shoot my first deer last year dad could not believe that i did not have to put a tag or call a ranger to check it out. deer in the back of the car and off you go home for tea.