Compared to Brian Cowen

juuge

Looking at a photograph on the front page of today’s Irish Times, it shows David Cameron and Nick Clegg entering 10 Downing Street and I can’t help noticing how presentable, well dressed and fit these guys look.
Whatever their policies or beliefs might be the impression they give is one of leadership, confidence and ability. Contrast that against our Taoiseach Brian Cowen who has constant difficulty buttoning his jacket, talking into his chest and at the best of times looks as though he’s just learned to stand up straight.
Surely impressions are everything especially in the role of representing our country, but more importantly in instilling confidence and leadership at a time when we need it most.

Darsad

Not only are impressions valuable actual actions and credibility of which he is devoid would help too.

mike65

Cowen comes from a long line of shambolicly attired mumbling Irish leaders. I tend to think its less to do with having been poorly educated in these matters and more that politicans are scared of looking to "posh" and sounding too "clever" ref Alan Dukes.

Poly

mike65 wrote: »

Cowen comes from a long line of shambolicly attired mumbling Irish leaders. I tend to think its less to do with having been poorly educated in these matters and more that politicans are scared of looking to "posh" and sounding too "clever" ref Alan Dukes.

FF have carefully avoiding sounding too "clever" by having a cabinet full of morons.

Ah yes. A well dressed leader like this:



The golden boy himself.

danman

Does the OP prefare style over substance?

Cowen may have neither, but I would prefare a leader that isn't a result of PR consultants. Cameron is a boyband type leader, a boyzone, a westlife, a spicegirls leader.

He is the epitimy of the exact opposite of what I would like in a leader.

kraggy

I first read this page without having logged in.

The ad between the OP and post no. 2 was for a special offer on the Supermac's Double Bacon Cheeseburger meal.

Apt.

Liam Byrne

If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

murf313

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

:eek: *shudders*

bad2dabone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

so true!

but still I wonder how he manages to look like a drunk at a wedding considering the salary he's on. It's baffling.

Laminations

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

Very true. We cant be hypocrites and knock Cowen for style when we castigate the FFers for knocking Enda Kenny for how he appears on TV. We can however knock Cowen for his substance and his performance both as Taoiseach and in his previous ministries, dire, dire, dire.

And now I'm going to wash my eyes out. Thanks Liam for the vivid picture you paint

LordSutch

danman wrote: »

Does the OP prefare style over substance?

Cowen may have neither, but I would prefare a leader that isn't a result of PR consultants. Cameron is a boyband type leader, a boyzone, a westlife, a spicegirls leader.

He is the epitimy of the exact opposite of what I would like in a leader.

That's a bit premature isnt it, we just don't know how Cameron is going to turn out, do we?

cm2000

I think how one presents themselves is very important. Cowen looks sloppy, unfit and as a result doesn't inspire confidence. It isn't the key characteristic you would look for but it certainly matters. The mantra healthy body healthy mind is very very true.

On a side note, I am sick of having an obese minister for health, though to be fair she seems to be trying very hard to rectify this and I believe James Reilly should really trim down if he wants to be her successor.

Liam Byrne

Laminations wrote: »

And now I'm going to wash my eyes out. Thanks Liam for the vivid picture you paint

I had NOTHING to do with those paintings!

Laminations

cm2000 wrote: »

I think how one presents themselves is very important. Cowen looks sloppy, unfit and as a result doesn't inspire confidence. It isn't the key characteristic you would look for but it certainly matters. The mantra healthy body healthy mind is very very true.

On a side note, I am sick of having an obese minister for health, though to be fair she seems to be trying very hard to rectify this and I believe James Reilly should really trim down if he wants to be her successor.

I suppose you have a point. Although I do prefer substance over style 'presentable' should be a minimum expected standard.

bmaxi

It took a lot of money, most probably ours, to give Cowen that physique. No amount of sartorial expertise could counter that.
Cowen is representative of the whole "it'll do" attitude to spoken and written English in the education system. It doesn't help to have teachers of English who can't spell, parse or punctuate or else are too fcuking lazy to ensure their pupils can.
It is amazing to see how many, supposedly well educated people, can't differentiate between, for example, their, there and they're. Kids are walking out of school with Leaving Certs in English and a standard that wouldn't have passed the Primary Cert not so long ago.
Cameron and Clegg are both products of the Public school system in the UK, historically the training ground of the country's leaders and a system not noted for it's tolerance of low standards. I'd imagine public speaking and deportment would be quite high on the list of desired qualifications.

aDeener

i agree somewhat with the op. charisma is a very important aspect of leadership and looking the part can indeed be a big component of it

Nijmegen

Whilst "substance over style" is correct, Cowan has neither.

Also, a bit of style, or gravitas, or whatever you wish to call it, is a sign of a good leader.

Gordon Brown was attacked for not having charisma during the UK elections. But he looked the part of the leader, and by all accounts, was a good one in his collective 13 years in government.

Funkfield

aDeener wrote: »

i agree somewhat with the op. charisma is a very important aspect of leadership and looking the part can indeed be a big component of it

This.

It has already been mentioned here about "style over substance" and vice versa, and someone has mentioned that if its "substance over style" then at least being presentable would be expected.

For these reasons I am totally in favour of the TV debates in the run up to elections. I think they should start having them here in Ireland. A candidate is till just a frontman for his party but you may be instilled with a bit more confidence if you could see that the candidate can carry themselves well, think on their feet and have some smattering of appeal about them.

juuge

danman wrote: »

Does the OP prefare style over substance?

I think that’s too simplistic.
A person's appearance tells a lot of how they feel about themselves. Would you have someone like Cowen represent your company for instance?. If someone can’t sell themselves they can hardly sell your company’s image/expertise. Image and substance are of course two very different things, however is it too much to ask that our leader might have both?

thebman

Camelot wrote: »

That's a bit premature isnt it, we just don't know how Cameron is going to turn out, do we?

I agree and I find it hilarious that so many Irish people are prejudging Enda Kenny on how he would perform if he took power.

It comes down to prejudice really. And I believe this prejudice is as a result of these parties spending so long in opposition.

There is basically a generation of people that have never known the opposition parties in government.

Executive Steve

I'm only prejudging Enda Kenny on the basis that he's got an alarming capacity to make me cringe whenever he opens his mouth on Oireachtas report - almost as much as Cowen does, even if he does occasionally handle himself quite impressively.

That and the fact that some of the stuff he's come out with over the years leads me to believe the country would be in an even worse state with him as Taoiseach.

Executive Steve

...and I'm going to list today's splendid Dáil performance as one of the cringe-makers.

On a day when Merkel announces that the economic union of the single currency poses an "existential test" which "will" be met and will have to result in increased cultural and political union, Enda Kenny - who bravely fought for a "Yes" vote on Lisbon (I voted yes, not because of Enda, but I did vote yes) - gets up in the Dáil and asks the government for a cast-iron guarantee that we will retain economic sovereignty.

...but this is all going completely off-topic, sorry mods!

oppenheimer1

Style over substance in Dáil Éireann? There quite simply isn't anyone there who fits the bill as an inspiring leader quite frankly. Dare I say it but what we need is something like the expenses scandal, that requires a mass clearout of the drones the publicans and teachers that sit in Leinster house. I know it will never happen as it is undemocratic, but I would love to see the parties among themselves set a minimum educational qualification before they let someone run under the party banner.

What annoys me about all the big parties is that there is talent in their organisations. There are many well educated members of FF and FG, yet competence is not rewarded, but those that have bided their time. What you'll find is a party with maybe 10-15 real achievers and they won't let anyone with a bit of talent get a sniff in order to protect themselves for as long as possible.

My own constituency of Longford/Westmeath the choice is lamentably poor. The day voting comes, I don't know who I'd vote for, because I do not have much belief in any of the candidates. I want someone who will make decisions in the national interest, not someone who feels they need to attend every funeral/door opening in the county.

We need a new politics.

Executive Steve

I'm a big fan of Gilmore I must say, voted for him in the last election, but can't now because I've moved to another contituency.

Haven't a notion of who I'd vote for around these parts yet...

Executive Steve

Papa Smut wrote: »

Ah yes. A well dressed leader like this:



The golden boy himself.

Better or worse than the Japanese Prime Minister though?

Bertie was many things, to many people, but I think that stylewise he's hardly the worst politician we ever had in this country.

Ethics-wise, of course, well, there's been enough talk about that

Sleepy

bad2dabone wrote: »

so true!

but still I wonder how he manages to look like a drunk at a wedding considering the salary he's on. It's baffling.

From what I can see, he is a drunk who thinks he's at a wedding.

ejmaztec

I don't think that Cowen wouldn't look smart whatever he wore. He's a bit of a skulker at this stage.

Liam Byrne

Executive Steve wrote: »

I'm only prejudging Enda Kenny on the basis that he's got an alarming capacity to make me cringe whenever he opens his mouth on Oireachtas report - almost as much as Cowen does, even if he does occasionally handle himself quite impressively.

That and the fact that some of the stuff he's come out with over the years leads me to believe the country would be in an even worse state with him as Taoiseach.

I had to laugh at this.......

1) Kenny occasionally handles himself "quite impressively"
2) Some of Kenny's utterances make you think he'd have the country wrecked

Meanwhile.....

1) Cowen never handles himself "quite impressively" (never even remotely adequately, tbh)
2) All of his utterances make me think he'd have the country wrecked if he was Minister for Finance or Taoiseach.....

.....and look.......he's done precisely that!

scr123

What a terribly silly thread.

Slagging Brian Cowen over his appearance and at same time Gilmore and Kenny are all dressed up with nowhere to go !

Can I remind those with an obsession about FF that THE WORST DAY IN GOVERNMENT IS BETTER THAN THE BEST DAY IN OPPOSITION

Surely there is something better to do ?

aDeener

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Style over substance in Dáil Éireann? There quite simply isn't anyone there who fits the bill as an inspiring leader quite frankly. Dare I say it but what we need is something like the expenses scandal, that requires a mass clearout of the drones the publicans and teachers that sit in Leinster house. I know it will never happen as it is undemocratic, but I would love to see the parties among themselves set a minimum educational qualification before they let someone run under the party banner.

What annoys me about all the big parties is that there is talent in their organisations. There are many well educated members of FF and FG, yet competence is not rewarded, but those that have bided their time. What you'll find is a party with maybe 10-15 real achievers and they won't let anyone with a bit of talent get a sniff in order to protect themselves for as long as possible.

My own constituency of Longford/Westmeath the choice is lamentably poor. The day voting comes, I don't know who I'd vote for, because I do not have much belief in any of the candidates. I want someone who will make decisions in the national interest, not someone who feels they need to attend every funeral/door opening in the county.

We need a new politics.

thats james bannons constituency isnt it?

ejmaztec

scr123 wrote: »

What a terribly silly thread.

Slagging Brian Cowen over his appearance and at same time Gilmore and Kenny are all dressed up with nowhere to go !

Can I remind those with an obsession about FF that THE WORST DAY IN GOVERNMENT IS BETTER THAN THE BEST DAY IN OPPOSITION

Surely there is something better to do ?

They've got their job-interview suits on, waiting for the call.:P

Raiser

Noffles

I always thought he looked like one of those creatures from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy.... like attached.

ejmaztec

With scruffy FF politicians in general, it's tempting to say that the only thing they ever took to the cleaners was the electorate.

scr123

ejmaztec wrote: »

They've got their job-interview suits on, waiting for the call.:P

Have had a look at their CV, unless they make huge improvements the 3 week interview with the electorate will be a wasted effort. There are signs the competition are gearing up and will be fighting like never before .

Oh, as they have been out of work for so long maybe they should start immediately a course on modern economics and politics

goose2005

danman wrote: »

Cameron is a boyband type leader, a boyzone, a westlife, a spicegirls leader.

He is the epitimy of the exact opposite of what I would like in a leader.

Is that you, Dunphy?;)

Presentation does matter - it's the only reason anyone thinks Brian Lenihan is competent.

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

Can I remind those with an obsession about FF that THE WORST DAY IN GOVERNMENT......

.....and FF have certainly had a fair few of those!

Jenneke87

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

This man has childeren right? Someone must have turned off the light, otherwise........ugh!

Laminations

scr123 wrote: »

There are signs the competition are gearing up and will be fighting like never before

You're only gearing up now? That explains it. Are you saying you haven't been running this country during this time of crisis in top gear?? You should have bloody geared up years ago.

Biggins

bad2dabone wrote: »

...still I wonder how he manages to look like a drunk at a wedding considering the salary he's on. It's baffling.

He always come across to me as someone that just fell out of bed in the morning after falling into it, still wearing the same crumpled suit.

If he was able for the job of running the government circus in Dublin - genuinely - I wouldn't care if he turned up in a clowns outfit.
As it is, he is just one in disguise, in a rumpled suit instead half the time.

Darsad

Well he looks to me like a man who is beat and has given up , he carries himself terribly and I would liken him against against a leader with real substance like listening to your favourite song as a ring tone on a phone when it should only ever be played in pro logic Dolby surround sound.

scr123

Though FF I have to admit Brian Cowen when he is in Dail listening to Gilmore and Kenny has too much of a dismissive look on his face. As we all know when these two clowns open their mouths their heads vanish but it should be acknowledged they are doing their best with very limited resources in the brains area

ejmaztec

scr123 wrote: »

Have had a look at their CV, unless they make huge improvements the 3 week interview with the electorate will be a wasted effort. There are signs the competition are gearing up and will be fighting like never before .

Oh, as they have been out of work for so long maybe they should start immediately a course on modern economics and politics

Was that the course that FF missed out on due to unforeseen circumstances?

scr123

Laminations wrote: »

You're only gearing up now? That explains it. Are you saying you haven't been running this country during this time of crisis in top gear?? You should have bloody geared up years ago.

Obviously you do not support FF so would you mind telling me who you support and why your party has not geared up to defeat FF in an election since 1982 ?
Perhaps you could also tell me how to deflate an economy and at same time reflate it. In fact, if there is anyone on this board who has the answer there are many governments around the world who will pay big money for a working solution

Stroke Politics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhYb6ZM-vds

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

Perhaps you could also tell me how to deflate an economy and at same time reflate it. In fact, if there is anyone on this board who has the answer there are many governments around the world who will pay big money for a working solution

Well, we told FF how not to inflate it in the first place, and Ahern told us all we'd be better off committing suicide!

And if anyone in FF wants to forego their half-a-million quid, or hire us as consultants like they did their buddies, then maybe we might actually look at giving them some help.....

.....but at the moment, considering they shafted us with NAMA, why would we ? If they're devoid of ideas, let them quit and let someone competent and ethical have a go.

BroomBurner

Obviously, substance should win out over style, but is there anyone who doesn't cringe when they see Cowen with Obama Berlesconi and Sarkozi.

I can hardly wait for the shudder of despair when he meets the Wonderboy Cleggeron.

How can you take him seriously at all? Going by his reaction to those portraits hung in the gallery, Cowen is the only one that takes Cowen seriously.

steelcityblues

What is the bet that whenever they first meet, David Cameron will go back to his aide saying along the lines of; "Nice chap that Mr. Cowen, but one didn't know what he was bloody on about half the time."

DeVore

I think this pic of me outside the US Embassy last year says more then I can about how I feel about this administration compared to others!



DeV.

steelcityblues

DeVore wrote: »

I think this pic of me outside the US Embassy last year says more then I can about how I feel about this administration compared to others!



DeV.

You jokingly meant Ireland to be invaded, right?