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Compared to Brian Cowen

  • 13-05-2010 03:52PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 792 ✭✭✭


    Looking at a photograph on the front page of today’s Irish Times, it shows David Cameron and Nick Clegg entering 10 Downing Street and I can’t help noticing how presentable, well dressed and fit these guys look.
    Whatever their policies or beliefs might be the impression they give is one of leadership, confidence and ability. Contrast that against our Taoiseach Brian Cowen who has constant difficulty buttoning his jacket, talking into his chest and at the best of times looks as though he’s just learned to stand up straight.
    Surely impressions are everything especially in the role of representing our country, but more importantly in instilling confidence and leadership at a time when we need it most.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Darsad


    Not only are impressions valuable actual actions and credibility of which he is devoid would help too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Cowen comes from a long line of shambolicly attired mumbling Irish leaders. I tend to think its less to do with having been poorly educated in these matters and more that politicans are scared of looking to "posh" and sounding too "clever" ref Alan Dukes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭Poly


    mike65 wrote: »
    Cowen comes from a long line of shambolicly attired mumbling Irish leaders. I tend to think its less to do with having been poorly educated in these matters and more that politicans are scared of looking to "posh" and sounding too "clever" ref Alan Dukes.

    FF have carefully avoiding sounding too "clever" by having a cabinet full of morons.


  • Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah yes. A well dressed leader like this:

    leaders2_177301t.jpg

    The golden boy himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Does the OP prefare style over substance?

    Cowen may have neither, but I would prefare a leader that isn't a result of PR consultants. Cameron is a boyband type leader, a boyzone, a westlife, a spicegirls leader.

    He is the epitimy of the exact opposite of what I would like in a leader.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    I first read this page without having logged in.

    The ad between the OP and post no. 2 was for a special offer on the Supermac's Double Bacon Cheeseburger meal.

    Apt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked
    :eek: *shudders*


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭bad2dabone


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

    so true!

    but still I wonder how he manages to look like a drunk at a wedding considering the salary he's on. It's baffling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    If Cowen could actually do the job he's paid to do (or better still, had done his previous job) then I wouldn't care if he showed up naked

    Very true. We cant be hypocrites and knock Cowen for style when we castigate the FFers for knocking Enda Kenny for how he appears on TV. We can however knock Cowen for his substance and his performance both as Taoiseach and in his previous ministries, dire, dire, dire.

    And now I'm going to wash my eyes out. Thanks Liam for the vivid picture you paint


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    danman wrote: »
    Does the OP prefare style over substance?

    Cowen may have neither, but I would prefare a leader that isn't a result of PR consultants. Cameron is a boyband type leader, a boyzone, a westlife, a spicegirls leader.

    He is the epitimy of the exact opposite of what I would like in a leader.

    That's a bit premature isnt it, we just don't know how Cameron is going to turn out, do we?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭cm2000


    I think how one presents themselves is very important. Cowen looks sloppy, unfit and as a result doesn't inspire confidence. It isn't the key characteristic you would look for but it certainly matters. The mantra healthy body healthy mind is very very true.

    On a side note, I am sick of having an obese minister for health, though to be fair she seems to be trying very hard to rectify this and I believe James Reilly should really trim down if he wants to be her successor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    And now I'm going to wash my eyes out. Thanks Liam for the vivid picture you paint

    I had NOTHING to do with those paintings! ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    cm2000 wrote: »
    I think how one presents themselves is very important. Cowen looks sloppy, unfit and as a result doesn't inspire confidence. It isn't the key characteristic you would look for but it certainly matters. The mantra healthy body healthy mind is very very true.

    On a side note, I am sick of having an obese minister for health, though to be fair she seems to be trying very hard to rectify this and I believe James Reilly should really trim down if he wants to be her successor.

    I suppose you have a point. Although I do prefer substance over style 'presentable' should be a minimum expected standard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    It took a lot of money, most probably ours, to give Cowen that physique. No amount of sartorial expertise could counter that.
    Cowen is representative of the whole "it'll do" attitude to spoken and written English in the education system. It doesn't help to have teachers of English who can't spell, parse or punctuate or else are too fcuking lazy to ensure their pupils can.
    It is amazing to see how many, supposedly well educated people, can't differentiate between, for example, their, there and they're. Kids are walking out of school with Leaving Certs in English and a standard that wouldn't have passed the Primary Cert not so long ago.
    Cameron and Clegg are both products of the Public school system in the UK, historically the training ground of the country's leaders and a system not noted for it's tolerance of low standards. I'd imagine public speaking and deportment would be quite high on the list of desired qualifications.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    i agree somewhat with the op. charisma is a very important aspect of leadership and looking the part can indeed be a big component of it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Whilst "substance over style" is correct, Cowan has neither.

    Also, a bit of style, or gravitas, or whatever you wish to call it, is a sign of a good leader.

    Gordon Brown was attacked for not having charisma during the UK elections. But he looked the part of the leader, and by all accounts, was a good one in his collective 13 years in government.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    aDeener wrote: »
    i agree somewhat with the op. charisma is a very important aspect of leadership and looking the part can indeed be a big component of it

    This.

    It has already been mentioned here about "style over substance" and vice versa, and someone has mentioned that if its "substance over style" then at least being presentable would be expected.

    For these reasons I am totally in favour of the TV debates in the run up to elections. I think they should start having them here in Ireland. A candidate is till just a frontman for his party but you may be instilled with a bit more confidence if you could see that the candidate can carry themselves well, think on their feet and have some smattering of appeal about them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 792 ✭✭✭juuge


    danman wrote: »
    Does the OP prefare style over substance?


    I think that’s too simplistic.
    A person's appearance tells a lot of how they feel about themselves. Would you have someone like Cowen represent your company for instance?. If someone can’t sell themselves they can hardly sell your company’s image/expertise. Image and substance are of course two very different things, however is it too much to ask that our leader might have both?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,007 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Camelot wrote: »
    That's a bit premature isnt it, we just don't know how Cameron is going to turn out, do we?

    I agree and I find it hilarious that so many Irish people are prejudging Enda Kenny on how he would perform if he took power.

    It comes down to prejudice really. And I believe this prejudice is as a result of these parties spending so long in opposition.

    There is basically a generation of people that have never known the opposition parties in government.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    I'm only prejudging Enda Kenny on the basis that he's got an alarming capacity to make me cringe whenever he opens his mouth on Oireachtas report - almost as much as Cowen does, even if he does occasionally handle himself quite impressively.

    That and the fact that some of the stuff he's come out with over the years leads me to believe the country would be in an even worse state with him as Taoiseach.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    ...and I'm going to list today's splendid Dáil performance as one of the cringe-makers.

    On a day when Merkel announces that the economic union of the single currency poses an "existential test" which "will" be met and will have to result in increased cultural and political union, Enda Kenny - who bravely fought for a "Yes" vote on Lisbon (I voted yes, not because of Enda, but I did vote yes) - gets up in the Dáil and asks the government for a cast-iron guarantee that we will retain economic sovereignty.

    ...but this is all going completely off-topic, sorry mods!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Style over substance in Dáil Éireann? There quite simply isn't anyone there who fits the bill as an inspiring leader quite frankly. Dare I say it but what we need is something like the expenses scandal, that requires a mass clearout of the drones the publicans and teachers that sit in Leinster house. I know it will never happen as it is undemocratic, but I would love to see the parties among themselves set a minimum educational qualification before they let someone run under the party banner.

    What annoys me about all the big parties is that there is talent in their organisations. There are many well educated members of FF and FG, yet competence is not rewarded, but those that have bided their time. What you'll find is a party with maybe 10-15 real achievers and they won't let anyone with a bit of talent get a sniff in order to protect themselves for as long as possible.

    My own constituency of Longford/Westmeath the choice is lamentably poor. The day voting comes, I don't know who I'd vote for, because I do not have much belief in any of the candidates. I want someone who will make decisions in the national interest, not someone who feels they need to attend every funeral/door opening in the county.

    We need a new politics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    I'm a big fan of Gilmore I must say, voted for him in the last election, but can't now because I've moved to another contituency.

    Haven't a notion of who I'd vote for around these parts yet...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    Papa Smut wrote: »
    Ah yes. A well dressed leader like this:

    leaders2_177301t.jpg

    The golden boy himself.



    t1larg.hato.jpg


    Better or worse than the Japanese Prime Minister though?

    Bertie was many things, to many people, but I think that stylewise he's hardly the worst politician we ever had in this country.

    Ethics-wise, of course, well, there's been enough talk about that

    ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    bad2dabone wrote: »
    so true!

    but still I wonder how he manages to look like a drunk at a wedding considering the salary he's on. It's baffling.
    From what I can see, he is a drunk who thinks he's at a wedding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,283 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    I don't think that Cowen wouldn't look smart whatever he wore. He's a bit of a skulker at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I'm only prejudging Enda Kenny on the basis that he's got an alarming capacity to make me cringe whenever he opens his mouth on Oireachtas report - almost as much as Cowen does, even if he does occasionally handle himself quite impressively.

    That and the fact that some of the stuff he's come out with over the years leads me to believe the country would be in an even worse state with him as Taoiseach.

    I had to laugh at this.......

    1) Kenny occasionally handles himself "quite impressively"
    2) Some of Kenny's utterances make you think he'd have the country wrecked

    Meanwhile.....

    1) Cowen never handles himself "quite impressively" (never even remotely adequately, tbh)
    2) All of his utterances make me think he'd have the country wrecked if he was Minister for Finance or Taoiseach.....

    .....and look.......he's done precisely that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    What a terribly silly thread.

    Slagging Brian Cowen over his appearance and at same time Gilmore and Kenny are all dressed up with nowhere to go !

    Can I remind those with an obsession about FF that THE WORST DAY IN GOVERNMENT IS BETTER THAN THE BEST DAY IN OPPOSITION

    Surely there is something better to do ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Style over substance in Dáil Éireann? There quite simply isn't anyone there who fits the bill as an inspiring leader quite frankly. Dare I say it but what we need is something like the expenses scandal, that requires a mass clearout of the drones the publicans and teachers that sit in Leinster house. I know it will never happen as it is undemocratic, but I would love to see the parties among themselves set a minimum educational qualification before they let someone run under the party banner.

    What annoys me about all the big parties is that there is talent in their organisations. There are many well educated members of FF and FG, yet competence is not rewarded, but those that have bided their time. What you'll find is a party with maybe 10-15 real achievers and they won't let anyone with a bit of talent get a sniff in order to protect themselves for as long as possible.

    My own constituency of Longford/Westmeath the choice is lamentably poor. The day voting comes, I don't know who I'd vote for, because I do not have much belief in any of the candidates. I want someone who will make decisions in the national interest, not someone who feels they need to attend every funeral/door opening in the county.

    We need a new politics.

    thats james bannons constituency isnt it?


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