ATTENTION: Blair Horan and the CPSU Leadership...

Silvio.Dante

A 2:1 majority rejecting the Croke Park sellout is pretty comprehensive.

However it gives Blair Horan, who is an ICTU conformist at heart, enough wriggle room to try and bring us under the Yes umbrella as I'm sure SIPTU and IMPACT will accept.

If you do try to railroad us into the deal and therefore totally ignore our deomcratic ballot I and many of my colleagues will resign from the CPSU fortwith...

How was that a democratic ballot?
The ballot paper had 3 pages of vote no propaganda on the ballot paper itself signed by Blair Horan.

You wouldn't have seen as biased an operation in the old soviet union.

Silvio.Dante

Deleted User wrote: »

How was that a democratic ballot?
The ballot paper had 3 pages of vote no propaganda on the ballot paper itself signed by Blair Horan.

You wouldn't have seen as biased an operation in the old soviet union.

Each member had the option to accept or reject the sellout. Nuff said...

average_runner

A fair ballot paper is not ment to have any biased information on it.


It be like the FF saying vote FF on the ballot papers. That kind of behaviour does get extra votes and so its not a fair ballot.

But then again thats unions for you and doesnt matter if ye vote yes or no, you be getting a pay cut, except if the EU has its ways you be out of a job!!!

bonzos

I think the CPSU members are right...look for a better deal,even a pay rise. The country is full of wealthy people who made a fortune and had better working conditions than us....P.S. if your trying to contact me i wont be at work until 9.30 and i wont be able to take and work related phone calls because its not in my contract:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

Deleted User wrote: »

You wouldn't have seen as biased an operation in the old soviet union.

old soviet union is exactly where the unions want us to end up

Silvio.Dante

I wonder how many of you will howl from the rooftops when SIPTU defile their ballot papers with Zanu FF propaganda calling on members to support the sellout...:D

hobochris

ei.sdraob wrote: »

old soviet union is exactly where the unions want us to end up

is that speculation or your opinion?

hobochris

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I wonder how many of you will howl from the rooftops when SIPTU defile their baoolt papers with Zanu FF propaganda calling on members to support the sellout...:D

how is it a sell out? are options not pretty much agreed cuts or forced cuts.

Agreed cuts would sure;y be more favourable of the two for PS workers as they would have some input.

The_Honeybadger

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I wonder how many of you will howl from the rooftops when SIPTU defile their baoolt papers with Zanu FF propaganda calling on members to support the sellout...:D

Having said no, and lets assume for a minute that the croke park deal falls apart, where would you like to go from here? Do you think you can get a better deal somehow, and if ye can how will it be paid for?

No redundancies and no further paycuts was a great deal I thought, I'm not in the PS so i suppose I don't fully understand the anger that is among the membership, but anger is not a strategy, I really fail to understand what you think can be acheived from a refusal of the deal on offer.

murphaph

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

A 2:1 majority rejecting the Croke Park sellout is pretty comprehensive.

However it gives Blair Horan, who is an ICTU conformist at heart, enough wriggle room to try and bring us under the Yes umbrella as I'm sure SIPTU and IMPACT will accept.

If you do try to railroad us into the deal and therefore totally ignore our deomcratic ballot I and many of my colleagues will resign from the CPSU fortwith...

Your union (as you have known all along) is a member of ICTU and if ICTU as a whole accepts the deal, your union will have to accept it too.

It looks increasingly likely that deal or no deal, public sector pay will have to be cut further as Merkel has indicated the EU will want a greater say in domestic economic policy of member states requiring bailouts from German taxpayers! And rightly so Angela!

gandalf

If this deal is rejected then god help you and all the others in the CPSU and other unions. As we saw from what happened in Greece last week we as a country have no choice but to knuckle down and sort out our finances and cuts to Public Service costs is one of the areas this is going to happen.

The Croke Park deal was a very good one that guaranteed job security for those lucky enough to have permanent positions which by itself should have meant the deal was a no brainer to pass.

Riskymove

average_runner wrote: »

A fair ballot paper is not ment to have any biased information on it.


It be like the FF saying vote FF on the ballot papers. That kind of behaviour does get extra votes and so its not a fair ballot.

I dont agree here, its a private vote by members of an organisation, not a national democratic election...its 'leaders'(!) are entitled to put forward their reasons for supporting or oppossing it...its up to members to decide.

Your union (as you have known all along) is a member of ICTU and if ICTU as a whole accepts the deal, your union will have to accept it too.

no they don't....like other unions before, they can leave ICTU and go on their own

A 2:1 majority rejecting the Croke Park sellout is pretty comprehensive

67% of 74% is just less than half the members

Tipp Man

Deleted User wrote: »

How was that a democratic ballot?
The ballot paper had 3 pages of vote no propaganda on the ballot paper itself signed by Blair Horan.

You wouldn't have seen as biased an operation in the old soviet union.

Is this actually true??

If so is it even legal??

dean21

murphaph wrote: »

Your union (as you have known all along) is a member of ICTU and if ICTU as a whole accepts the deal, your union will have to accept it too.

It looks increasingly likely that deal or no deal, public sector pay will have to be cut further as Merkel has indicated the EU will want a greater say in domestic economic policy of member states requiring bailouts from German taxpayers! And rightly so Angela!

The IMF is visiting Ireland next week and they have said that they are very happy with what has being done in Ireland
The pay cut that is coming is TAX increase for all worker and we will then hear the entire moan from the private sector workers
I can just hear it now “why are we paying more tax to keep dose public sector workers on they inflated wages and gold plated pensions, it not fair"
Well it is fact so live with it

Welease

So Vote No, and leave ICTU.. You won't because as usual you are all talk, and the only reason you are getting listened to is we have a weak incompetant government.

There are about 450,000 people who didn't get to vote on continuing to receive bloated salaries and benefits..

If you are looking for sympathy, then why don't you have a pity party at work.. It will give you something to do while you are not answering the phones.

Riskymove

Tipp Man wrote: »

Is this actually true??

yes

If so is it even legal??

yes

galway2007

Welease wrote: »

So Vote No, and leave ICTU.. You won't because as usual you are all talk, and the only reason you are getting listened to is we have a weak incompetant government.

There are about 450,000 people who didn't get to vote on continuing to receive bloated salaries and benefits..

If you are looking for sympathy, then why don't you have a pity party at work.. It will give you something to do while you are not answering the phones.

Sorry it is not the PS fault that 450k are on the dole
A lot of that is due to private sector employers protecting there massive profits

Silvio.Dante

murphaph wrote: »

Your union (as you have known all along) is a member of ICTU and if ICTU as a whole accepts the deal, your union will have to accept it too.

Nonsense. If ICTU try to bulldoze this through us, despite our rejection and our union leaders lie down then there'll be mass resignations from the union.

If however the CPSU leaders stand their ground and properly represent their members then we will see a dismantling of the ICTU cabal...

Welease

galway2007 wrote: »

Sorry it is not the PS fault that 450k are on the dole
A lot of that is due to private sector employers protecting there massive profits

Who said the PS were to blame?

I said they didnt get a vote on their conditions..

You have your vote.. You all want to talk the talk on here.. Lets see if you will walk the walk..

I'm guessing you won't.. Vote No, leave ICTU and give the rest of us the biggest laugh we have seen in years..

problemchimp

I don't think the croker deal is as straight forward as no job losses and no future pay cuts. As I have said in previous threads, the cuts need to start at the top down. Judges immune from pension levy because they are judges? Is this fair? pensions being paid to politicians in their 50's while still working. The majority of the cabinet are teachers on a career break and the tax payer is still paying contributions into their teachers pension fund. Is this fair? Ex taoisigh having government cars driven by garda at a time when we need Gardai for more important things, not driving around the country promoting their book like Bertie. We are also paying their mobile phone bills. It all adds up. The lower paid PS workers shouldn't be the first ones hit in PS reform, it should be from the top down. The system is set up to protect the people in power not the average citizen in public or private sector. When that system starts to fail they set up NAMA to protect the big donators of the past and meanwhile stirring up trouble among the working class public and private. The PS workers are trying to protect themselves and their families and I suggest the private sector do the same by organising themselves and protesting about the real reason we are in the shiite instead of having a go at lower paid PS workers. And please note that I am not a PS worker myself but a self employed worker on my fukcing knees with no benefits.

Silvio.Dante

Welease wrote: »

Vote No, leave ICTU

Thats my ideal scenario...

Welease

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Thats my ideal scenario...

The option is there.. You lot haven't the balls to do it though..

All fkin talk.....

garhjw

too many civil servants are overpaid and underworked.

i feel sorry for those civil servants who work hard and take pride in their jobs.

along with the government squandering money, the unions have bled this country dry. how can this country progress with a government and union leaders like this.

institutionalised incompetence

PeakOutput

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Nonsense. If ICTU try to bulldoze this through us, despite our rejection and our union leaders lie down then there'll be mass resignations from the union.

If however the CPSU leaders stand their ground and properly represent their members then we will see a dismantling of the ICTU cabal...

you knew before you voted that it would be an ictu majority and not just cpsu that would decide it

if you didnt agree with that you should have said so before the vote and forced the cpsu to so not after when its sour grapes cause you look like your not going to get your way

dean21

dean21 wrote: »

The IMF is visiting Ireland next week and they have said that they are very happy with what has being done in Ireland
The pay cut that is coming is TAX increase for all worker and we will then hear the entire moan from the private sector workers
I can just hear it now “why are we paying more tax to keep dose public sector workers on they inflated wages and gold plated pensions, it not fair"
Well it is fact so live with it

What?

@ Silvio - there's 400k people who'd love some scab work if you're planning on striking. Go for it!

Welease

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Nonsense. If ICTU try to bulldoze this through us, despite our rejection and our union leaders lie down then there'll be mass resignations from the union.

If however the CPSU leaders stand their ground and properly represent their members then we will see a dismantling of the ICTU cabal...

You don't have the balls or intelligence to do anything of the sort..

A few weeks ago you were all proclaiming no deal would be agreed...
Then you were claiming no one would vote for the CP deal
Then the majority are voting for the CP deal..

The government have played you like the muppets you are.. They know you are all talk and when push comes to shove will go crawling back looking for more handouts.

So this weeks cry is.. we will walk away from ICTU.. <laughs> you have been wrong on everything else so far...you will be wrong on this ..

Standing alone you would be right in the firing line for this weak government, and without your big bully union mates standing behind you... you are nothing..

You lack the balls to do anything.. and have proven that amply thus far...

cson

I want to know what a gold plated pension is. I want me one of those. :cool:

Head The Wall

cson wrote: »

I want to know what a gold plated pension is. I want me one of those. :cool:

It's one where you pay feck all in compared to what you get out. Some members can also start collecting theirs at 50 yrs

problemchimp

cson wrote: »

I want to know what a gold plated pension is. I want me one of those. :cool:

gold plated pensions are for Fingleton, Fitzpatrick and other private sector workers of their like. Hard workers who saved our country from ruin.

Silvio.Dante

Welease wrote: »

The option is there.. You lot haven't the balls to do it though..

All fkin talk.....

All in good time compadré. No point jumping until the ship begins to sink. We'll await the results from the other unions and go from there...

Silvio.Dante

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

@ Silvio - there's 400k people who'd love some scab work if you're planning on striking. Go for it!

Scabs are a blight in every society, sadly...

PeakOutput

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

All in good time compadré. No point jumping until the ship begins to sink. We'll await the results from the other unions and go from there...

oh right so what your saying is you will throw a tantrum if the democratic process dosnt go your way

real mature

PeakOutput

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Scabs are a blight in every society, sadly...

so now your calling the poor people who have been affected by the crash a blight

god your lovely

Head The Wall

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Scabs are a blight in every society, sadly...

Guess who the scabs are in this country?

problemchimp

PeakOutput wrote: »

so now your calling the poor people who have been affected by the crash a blight

god your lovely[/QUOTcalm down

PeakOutput

problemchimp wrote: »

calm down

:rolleyes:

Welease

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

All in good time compadré. No point jumping until the ship begins to sink. We'll await the results from the other unions and go from there...

Yeah till the next excuse lol...

Six months from now you will still be in ICTU and we will still be listening to your sabre rattling whining comrade.

Lol how long ago was the first pay cut? and your still here talking... and still being "sold out" by your unions.. come back when you have the balls to walk the walk.

murphaph

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Nonsense. If ICTU try to bulldoze this through us, despite our rejection and our union leaders lie down then there'll be mass resignations from the union.

If however the CPSU leaders stand their ground and properly represent their members then we will see a dismantling of the ICTU cabal...

I would welcome that, bring it on!

murphaph

problemchimp wrote: »

gold plated pensions are for Fingleton, Fitzpatrick and other private sector workers of their like. Hard workers who saved our country from ruin.

Don't forget Patrick Neary

Welease

Welease wrote: »

You don't have the balls or intelligence to do anything of the sort..

A few weeks ago you were all proclaiming no deal would be agreed...
Then you were claiming no one would vote for the CP deal
Then the majority are voting for the CP deal..

The government have played you like the muppets you are.. They know you are all talk and when push comes to shove will go crawling back looking for more handouts.

So this weeks cry is.. we will walk away from ICTU.. <laughs> you have been wrong on everything else so far...you will be wrong on this ..

Standing alone you would be right in the firing line for this weak government, and without your big bully union mates standing behind you... you are nothing..

You lack the balls to do anything.. and have proven that amply thus far...

I recieved an infraction for this post.. deserved..

My intention was not to directly insult Silvio.. some of the YOU's were aimed at the CPSU and some at Silvio. However neither was clear.

Public apoloigy for the post to Silvio.. It could and should have been phrased far better. Sorry.

Rgds,
Welease.

OMD

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

All in good time compadré. No point jumping until the ship begins to sink. We'll await the results from the other unions and go from there...

If the deal is passed and CPSU leave ICTU then what happens? There is absolutely no way the government could give the CPSU anything or else every other union would be up in arms.

You could go on strike but would have no possibility of winning. Not only would Joe Public be against you but your former union colleagues would also be against you.

waster81

Deleted User wrote: »

How was that a democratic ballot?
The ballot paper had 3 pages of vote no propaganda on the ballot paper itself signed by Blair Horan.

You wouldn't have seen as biased an operation in the old soviet union.

The into have be putting their yes propaganda in the in touch magazine, and eolas supplements which is sent out to every single member!

waster81

murphaph wrote: »

Your union (as you have known all along) is a member of ICTU and if ICTU as a whole accepts the deal, your union will have to accept it too.

It looks increasingly likely that deal or no deal, public sector pay will have to be cut further as Merkel has indicated the EU will want a greater say in domestic economic policy of member states requiring bailouts from German taxpayers! And rightly so Angela!

No they dont they can remove themselves from ICTU.

zootroid

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Scabs are a blight in every society, sadly...

So you are unwilling to do work below a certain amount of money, but there are those out there who are, and you refer to them as scabs?

Do you think you the laws of the labour market don't apply to you?

Personally, all this industrial unrest leaves a sour taste, especially given the state of the public finances. If it is possible to save money by outsourcing to the private sector, I am all for it. Not having to listen to people who don't know how well off they are moan about how public sector workers are victims would be an additional benefit.

murphaph

waster81 wrote: »

No they dont they can remove themselves from ICTU.

Do you honestly think that the CPSU will withdraw from the ICTU? Be honest now!

The_Conductor

I don't really understand how/why the CPSU membership decided to vote against the Croke Park agreement to be perfectly honest. With the best of will in the world- the government does not have the money it needs to pay its day to day expenses- we're over 20 billion a year in the red. Certainly the public sector have taken a large hit both with the pension levy- and also with the paycuts- the Croke Park agreement was a recognition of this, an agreement that there would be no further paycuts for the duration of the agreement- aka the government will have to focus elsewhere for its 3 billion of savings in December- and the same again next year.

It really isn't rocket science- the money very simply is not there. It doesn't matter how much disruption you cause- how many Passport Office disputes there are, or work-to-rules implemented. An all-out strike would actually be helpful, as salaries could then be witheld in their entirety- a la the days salary that was recently docked in lieu of last November's industrial action.

How simple does it have to be- the money is not there. Kick and fight and scream to your hearts content- blame the bankers, the developers, the politicians, more senior civil servants, the private sector- whoever you want really- it simply doesn't matter. The cupboard is bare. It really is.

cson

Excellent post.

Yet many would still like to chop the cupboard up and throw it on the fire.

Riskymove

smccarrick wrote: »

I don't really understand how/why the CPSU membership decided to vote against the Croke Park agreement to be perfectly honest.

I agree with all you have said.......but....



...firstly not all CPSU have same opinions as the couple of posters coming on here with flamebait...as I mentioned earlier the 67% yes vote represents just less than 50% of the CPSU membership

...it was mentioned last night that it was 'unfortunate' that the clarifications about the croke park deal came late in the day as far as this ballot was concerned and I do think it would have adjusted the % somewhat

..the more time goes on, the more anger/resentment will abate in my view, especially given issues like increments as discussed earlier

SkepticOne

smccarrick wrote: »

It really isn't rocket science- the money very simply is not there. It doesn't matter how much disruption you cause- how many Passport Office disputes there are, or work-to-rules implemented. An all-out strike would actually be helpful, as salaries could then be witheld in their entirety- a la the days salary that was recently docked in lieu of last November's industrial action.

How simple does it have to be- the money is not there. Kick and fight and scream to your hearts content- blame the bankers, the developers, the politicians, more senior civil servants, the private sector- whoever you want really- it simply doesn't matter. The cupboard is bare. It really is.

Paradoxically, it may be the fact that public finances are known to be in such a dire strait that the deal was rejected. Extremely poor public finances means that the government (or the IMF/EU) is probably going to have to renegue on the deal some time down the line, in which case the union is going to look foolish for having accepted it. Therefore the deal lacks credibility and so it is rejected.

Now obviously this is not a totally rational course of action, however I think observers are perhaps assuming too high a level of rationality in the first place.

I think part of the reason why the government was so keen to push the "we've turned a corner" line earlier in the year was for this reason, i.e. to lend credibility to deals with unions. Otherwise, they would have preferred preparing the public for further cuts.