A 3rd way of organising races?

--amadeus--

Clubs up and down the country put on well run, accuratley measured and affordable races week in and week out. But with the explosion in popularity of running recently there are more people wanting to do races than there are races available to do. So into that gap commercial race organisers have crept.

To my mind commercial race organisers break into two camps. There is the "fun run / mini-marathon" camp; these races are often set up by a charity and the emphasis is on inclusion and entertainment rather than athletic achievement. Often the distances are non-standard or the course is inaccurate. Prizes are minimal (if present) and it is activity as entertainment. The other camp are the "for profit" commercial race organisers. They will (usually) have accurate courses that are chip times, all the gear in terms of goodie bags and prizes, great support and the like. But you pay for them, often shockingly high prices.

And as long as these two classes of event sell out they will continue to be staged. And as long as there is a lack of alternatives they will sell out.

But it doesn't *have* to be like that, does it? While mowing the lawns around Amadeus Mansion (the gardening crew need a hand sometimes) I was pondering this. IMRA are renowned for putting on outstanding events for a nominal fee. But they only do crazy run up mountain stuff. BHAA have brilliant and affordable races. But only in Cork and Dublin.

But what if there was a BHAA type organisation that covered the entire country?

Imagine an organisation that was fairly inexpensive to join, for arguments sake lets say €25. And imagine that this organisation used it's membership fees to recruit either full or part time regionally based staff with extensive race direction experience.

The only responsibility that these people would have would be helping stage good, cheap, local races. They would help out anyone who was planning a race completely free of charge. The race directors could be the charities that currently do races, they could be local athletics clubs who maybe lack expertise or manpower to stage more events, they could be local members of teh organisation, or local authorities, chambers of commerce or businesses looking to boost tourist numbers.

The organisations staff would go to the new Race Director with a "pre-pack" race. A sample event management plan, a book of contacts for course measurment and permiting, checklists - basically everything you need to run a good event all handed over in a folder and on disks. And they would be there to help every step of teh way, from planning through to execution.

And the payback? A €1 surcharge on all non-members running the race to go to funding the organisation and a guarantee that all members entering teh race will be charged a maximum of €10.

So, rough numbers...

Assume that after three years you have 5,000 members of this organisation (conservative, given that 6,000 ran in the Limerick race). That generates €125,000 in membership fees. Assuming that the regional reps work from home costs would be kept low but assume €25k on tax, accounting fees, admin, stationary, website, etc. That leaves €25k per year for 4 part time regional co-ordinators, before you factor in the monies from race events. If teh economy ever picks up something like this could also attract sponsorship (and possibly even grant aid) which would also help.

So we get more and better run races at a lower cost. The cowboy events - uncertified, inaccurate and expensive - will wither away as people won't pay for them when cheaper and higher quality alternatives are available. It all sounds ridiculously simple, what am I missing?!

gerard65

Your assuming you'd get 5000 members, is that a bit ambitous? I don't know what the membership for the BHAA is in Dublin but numbers of 200 to 300 is what usually turns out. I wonder what the membership of AAI is?
Actually what your proposing - is this not what AAI should be doing?

useurename

sounds great.I'd gladly take one of those positions also.Great idea.Take it to Ian O Riardan in the irish times.tell him to run with it.

smmoore79

That sounds in theory like a good idea. In Dublin, we are blessed with the BHAA. Just finished a BHAA race an hour ago and it was so well organised. Perhaps if BHAA type organisations were set up around the country then ya would have the option of not doin rip off events and do a local value for money event instead. Eg a Limerick city, Galway city, South west, south east, west, north east and north west organisation for example..

littlebug

I don't know about there being more people wanting to run races than there are races to run. I think it's more a case of people who aren't in clubs either knowing about the smaller races or feeling like they're only for faster runners.
The big races also have the marketing edge for catching the non club runners/joggers/walkers.

--amadeus--

gerard65 wrote: »

Actually what your proposing - is this not what AAI should be doing?

That's a whole other can of worms!

To an extent they do - the key difference to my mind is that the AAI's job is to regulate and govern road racing, not to orgainse races themselves.

As for 5,000 members after 3 years I think that's achievable. Look at how many people run the Great Ireland Run, teh Dublin, Cork and Belfast marathons and the like. I think if we got 1 in 10 road runners to sign up we'd have multiples of 5,000 registered.

nerraw1111

A Well thought idea.

I do agree with gerard in that it's something the aai could organise. There would be huge benefits for all, incl funds for elites.

It's bit like the GAA not bothering to organise leagues etc

gaf1983

Sounds like a great idea, do you know if it's been tried out anywhere else in the world?

shels4ever

--amadeus-- wrote: »

That's a whole other can of worms!

To an extent they do - the key difference to my mind is that the AAI's job is to regulate and govern road racing, not to orgainse races themselves.

As for 5,000 members after 3 years I think that's achievable. Look at how many people run the Great Ireland Run, teh Dublin, Cork and Belfast marathons and the like. I think if we got 1 in 10 road runners to sign up we'd have multiples of 5,000 registered.

Think your slightly wrong there. If i want to play football i can have a game with my mates form time to time , but if i want to play each weekend I would join a football club. Same for running the AAI system provides for exactly what your talking about. AAI may not run the races but it the Clubs do.

Just because races arent all over the papers and even on the AAI site doesnt mean that there isnt a race almost ever week held by clubs,

I know most clubs in Dublin anyway have a winter and summer league with races at least ever couple of week. These are never just for club members and may only have 30 runners. Have a quick look at a few club sites and it will open the door to lots more races...

If people are looking to race more your better off joininga club and doing club events as a huge increase in other systems and events will lead to a drop in quality. Maybe a section on the AAI site would help for this to promote club events more.

TFBubendorfer

shels4ever wrote: »

I know most clubs in Dublin anyway have a winter and summer league with races at least ever couple of week. These are never just for club members and may only have 30 runners. Have a quick look at a few club sites and it will open the door to lots more races...

You are looking at it from a Dublin point of view. There are plenty of clubs there and accordingly there are plenty of races. It's similar in Cork, at least in Cork City/East Cork, where the clubs and the BHAA are very active.

Go anywhere else in the country and you get an entirely different picture. I think an organisation like that would be a great idea, I think the whole operation is realistic and I also think that 5000 members in 3 years is actually a cautious estimation.

thirtyfoot

Why create yet another organisation, sounds like a waste of time to me and barking up the wrong tree. If real progress was to be made it would the national governing body of the sport doing this. Getting the right people into the national governing body should be the way forward. Getting AAI to accept organistions like the BHAA, IMC etc and include them more.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

To an extent they do - the key difference to my mind is that the AAI's job is to regulate and govern road racing, not to orgainse races themselves.

AAI (as in the organisation itself and the clubs) do organise races, they are called championships, road races, open sports, race series, club championships, club leagues etc etc at which the best athletes and those athletes who really want to improve compete in. It really is like real rugby vs tag rugby or real football vs cage astro football.

Would this new organisation require an AAI permit? If they didn't get a permit would they be ratified by the international governing body? If I was a member of your organisation could I also be a member of the AAI? If not, I decided to be a member of your organisation, realised I was really, really good and wanted to progress and maybe win championship medals or get international vests, would I have to leave your organisation and join the internationally recognised organisation in order to do this? Even if I wasn't of that standard but wanted to take it more seriously and train properly, how would I do this? Would you have clubs/training groups in your organisations? If so, how would you attract the best coaches to these clubs/training groups? Would the top athletes run in these races? What element of benefit would the grassroots of the sport get from such an organisation? Who would benefit most from this? Would it be just the road runners or the sport in general (as in jumping, throwing, putting, hurdling, harriering, felling from the age of 7 to 70)? If it was just the road runners would we be creating even more division and getting away from the concept that athletics is a sport for all the family and a sport for life and not just a sport for an individual person who trains alone 3 or 4 days a week, for themself and nobody else?

Lots of questions, the only answer for me is if you want real change get involved in the national governing body (that includes joing a club) in whatever guise is the best way to achieve your goal.

If you want to get away from the cowboy, for profit events, join a club and run in club organised races.

Did I say, join a club. Get involved in Fit4Life and help that grow.

PS: Join a club.

thirtyfoot

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Go anywhere else in the country and you get an entirely different picture. I think an organisation like that would be a great idea, I think the whole operation is realistic and I also think that 5000 members in 3 years is actually a cautious estimation.

Off the top of my head. Waterford have the best race series in the country, Donegal have a pretty active race series too. There are many club race series around the country.

Hard Worker

Tingle wrote: »

Off the top of my head. Waterford have the best race series in the country, Donegal have a pretty active race series too. There are many club race series around the country.

There's also a 4 county league in Leinster. Don't Galway have a race series also?
To be honest, I think there are far too many races.

MarieC

Hard Worker wrote: »

To be honest, I think there are far too many races.

Is it not a good thing though that there are lots of faces to choose from? Or is it that the standard at each is being diluted due to too many choices?

oldrunner

Here is the list of races that Athletics Ireland has for the first 16 days of May (I have left off school's and international) - the fixture list goes on in a similar vein.
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?page_id=714#april
Sat 1 Crusaders AC Track and Field Meet
Sun 2 Donegal Athletic Board 10km Road Race
Sun 2 Dochas Offaly Cancer Support Group Road Race
Sun 2 Great Limerick Run
Sun 2 Western People & Mayo Sports Partnership in association with Mayo A.C. Road Race
Mon 3 ANI Deep River Rock Belfast City Marathon
Mon 3 Leinster Novice & Masters Road Race Gowran
Mon 3 Arc Cancer Support Men’s Mini Marathon www.arccancersupport.ie Phoenix Park
Mon 3 Munster Track & Field Championships
Mon 3 St. Abban’s A.C. Open Track and Field Sports Carlow
Tue 4 Ballynonty A.C. Series-1 mile
Tue 4 Galway Clubs Race Series
Wed 5 Dublin Graded Series Irishtown Stadium Dublin
Wed 5 Dundalk Half Marathon
Wed 5 Mullingar Harriers A.C. 5km Road Race (Series 1 of 4)
Thur 6 Midleton A.C. Road
Fri 7 Clare County Board Road Race
Sat 8 Croghan 10k
Sat 8 Waterford AC Road Race
Sat 8 Irish Milers Club/Crusaders A.C. Track and Field Meet rishtown Stadium Dublin
Sat 8 Le Cheile 5k Road Race
Sat 8 Road Race in aid of Pieta House “Darkness into Light 2010 Phoenix Park
Sun 9 Kildare Marathon/Half
Sun 9 Clonmel AC 10k Road Race
Sun 9 St. Abban’s A.C. “M3 Monavea Women’s Mini Marathon” 7km Road
Sun 9 Clonliffe 2 mile Finglas/Glasnevin, Dublin 9
Sun 9 Inishowen A.C. Road Race
Tues 11 Galway Clubs Race Series
Tues 11 Ballynonty A.C. Series-1 mile
Wed 12 Mullingar Harriers A.C. 5k Race Series (2 of 4)
Fri 14 Navan AC Road Race
Fri 14 Donegal Athletic Board 5km Road Race
Sat 15 Mullingar Harriers A.C. 5k Race Series (3 of 4)
Sat 15 Sligo AC Road Race
Sat 15 Mayo A.C. Road Race
Sun 16 Woodie’s DIY AAI Games & Relay Championships Castleisland Co Kerry
Sun 16 Rising Sun AC 1 Ballinhassig Co Cork
Sun 16 West Waterford A.C. Road Race
Sun 16 The 26th Annual Sportsworld 5 mile
Sun 16 Monaghan Phoenix AC Road Race
Sun 16 River Moy Half Marathon

This doesn't include club races, the BHAA, the IMMA, etc.

plodder

I think the BHAA is successful for two reasons. It's a well organised and competitive series of races (as opposed to well organised one-off races that clubs do), catering for all standards. It's news to me from reading this thread, that there are other race series out there, which brings me to the other reason. BHAA is well publicised. There is a single website where you go to get all the information you need. This business of relying on handing out flyers at club races doesn't cut it, in the modern age.

One thing the AAI could do, would be to expand the Fit4Life thing to add a competitive, inter-club, team based competition to existing one-off club races. ie no need to create new races - just create series(es) from existing races, on a regional basis, and publicise them (ie publish a schedule for the year in advance). Also, like the BHAA, have different standards and maybe offer prizes at different standards.

It wouldn't change anything for existing competitive elite and club level runners, but might draw in a lot of the people who currently only compete in the well publicised, mass participation events, and take them to the next level.

BeepBeep67

Tingle wrote: »

Get involved in Fit4Life and help that grow.
.

+1 for Fit4Life, speaking from an Athletics Wicklow perspective, these are well organised, well attended, nominal prizes (but that's not the point), good spread afterwards and broad variety of talent.
There's one race per month and if that is replicated across the country that's 300+ races to choose from.

My personal opinion is that there are more than enough races to choose from at the moment, as called out previously the challenge is how do we get those races in a single calendar - the race pix site is moving towards that as it has no allegiance to any organisation. How do we convince more race organisers to utilize that or something else?

Gringo78

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

My personal opinion is that there are more than enough races to choose from at the moment, as called out previously the challenge is how do we get those races in a single calendar - the race pix site is moving towards that as it has no allegiance to any organisation. How do we convince more race organisers to utilize that or something else?

+1 to that. John Desmonds Cork Running Blog is a one stop shop for all the races in Cork. Trying to find ouy what races are on elsewhere in the country I find very difficult....

What about a sticky on the Events Sub-Forum which had a table with races that people open threads on, with a link to the discussion thread about that race...

e.g

Name|Date|Dist|Where|Link to Thread
Race A|09/05/2010|5m|Waterford|
Cork City Marathon|07/06/2010|26.2m|Cork|

aburke

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

You are looking at it from a Dublin point of view. There are plenty of clubs there and accordingly there are plenty of races. It's similar in Cork, at least in Cork City/East Cork, where the clubs and the BHAA are very active.

Go anywhere else in the country and you get an entirely different picture. I think an organisation like that would be a great idea, I think the whole operation is realistic and I also think that 5000 members in 3 years is actually a cautious estimation.

No shortage of races in Galway, Mayo & Clare from what I can see.
Most of the Galway ones are [AAI] club organised.

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

+1 for Fit4Life, speaking from an Athletics Wicklow perspective, these are well organised, well attended, nominal prizes (but that's not the point), good spread afterwards and broad variety of talent.
There's one race per month and if that is replicated across the country that's 300+ races to choose from.

My personal opinion is that there are more than enough races to choose from at the moment, as called out previously the challenge is how do we get those races in a single calendar - the race pix site is moving towards that as it has no allegiance to any organisation. How do we convince more race organisers to utilize that or something else?

Full disclosure: I work on the runireland.com site.
We try to get as many races listed as we can.
http://www.runireland.com/events/

You don't even need an account to get a race listed
http://www.runireland.com/node/add/event

The map is looking a bit cluttered, there are so many races!
http://www.runireland.com/events/map