Will religion, in Ireland, die out?

Caulego

StudentDad wrote: »

This isn't a question of theism bad atheism good - this is a question of freedom of thought and expression.
At the end of the day when people see the RC church acting in a manner contrary to it's own core beliefs, how the hell can that same church expect to retain it's moral authority?

SD

Yes, it is supposedly, though only theoretically, about freedom of expression, which is something that the Irish Constitution supposedly upholds.

Freedom of speech is protected by Article 40.6.1. However the article qualifies this right, providing that it may not be used to undermine "public order or morality or the authority of the State". Furthermore, the constitution explicitly requires that the publication of "blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter" be a criminal offence, leading the government to pass a new blasphemy law on 8 July 2009. Therfore the 'morality or authority of the State' is decided on the basis of blind belief in an unseen and unquestionable deity, which is very convenient. Therefore, 'religious' rights and feelings are protected by State law but those who disagree with such views are not, therefore hypocritically denying the right to free speech in the first place.

Secondly, we can't really have free speech and the right to express an opinion unless it agrees with the opening lines of the Constitution itself, which says:
"In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Éire...."
This essentially states and demands recognition for the placement of all authority in a 'Christian' three-headed deity, for which there is no evidence; for if such a being existed according to its own rules, in reality it would have prevented or at least made people aware of the evil being done for generations in its name, especially the buggery of defenceless children by its priesthood, and whom Jesus supposedly clearly commaned be drowned with a millstone around their necks.
Essentially, Ireland is a theocracy in the guise of an autonomous democracy, which is, to my way of thinking, more aptly described as a 'hypocracy', or a system of governance based on contradiction and conveneient beliefs that are falsely manufactured to cause division and contradiction. It might go some way towards explaining the schizophrenic myopia that hangs like a cloud over this 'holy' island.

Are regards your question, " how the hell can that same church expect to retain it's moral authority?", it can't, as it never held moral (right-thinking) authority, but immoral authority, by way of artificially created fears and threats if any of the 'flock' strayed from their crooked path of unreason and 'blind faith'. Fear is what it's all about, and not reason or good thinking, as there is no profit in that for the 'sheep-herds' who need to fleece their stock on a regular basis.

philologos

I was watching these clips from a debate between John Lennox and Michael Shermer on the existence of God. I think he puts it well in ways that I've tried to on boards.ie before but with more references and in a more articulate manner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1icax8npzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3s0CHW00cA

It seems that actually we all bring assumptions to the table in the God debate. We just need to analyse how reasonable it is to hold the assumptions that we do. The two videos above challenge some assumptions that atheists bring to the God debate.

People can claim that the God discussion is like Santa Claus or fairytales but ultimately it really isn't.

LighterGuy

ScumLord wrote: »

It is a debate, just because the majority of people have one opinion doesn't mean the debate is biased it just means there's a pretty obvious result.

One side is speaking the truth the other side is trying to convince them that they should be allowed to believe whatever they what to believe and let that believe corrupt the world.
I don't believe the church has anything good left in it, it's had it's time and is now defunct.

In my opinion. Its all about where you ask. For example if I went into a church tomorrow and asked for a vote of people who believed in god? :pac: ... or like going onto a swingers site and asking is swinging a good thing or bad thing? ... what you think the outcomes will be :pac:

LighterGuy

greenpilot wrote: »

I think you are missing the point, most Irish people, who surf the web, are aware or use Boards.ie.....and therefore DONT believe in God.....thats a lot of people, most of the population, in fact.

I aint missing no point.
As popular as boards.ie is, it is not an accurate way to measure things. As of the last census 4.58 million people live in Ireland. Lets even take 50% of that ... are you really willing to bet 2.29 million people use boards.ie?

wonderwoman2

yes indeed but the church has a hold on schools still so that it's self is a big problem, I reckon in the next few years the school system has to change to accommodate everyone.

xxtattyberxx

I cant see religion ever dying out, as nice as it would be.
I do believe that the church (catholic) has started loosing the power that it once held over people/ politics / schools (especially in Ireland) and will continue to loose its reign of power. Considering the hold that it once hand, I was more than happy to see and send my son to a non demonination Gaelscoil, Irish without the pressure of having God etc thrown down their throats
I would be far from a catholic but from what I see there are people out there who strongly believe in religion, they have little to no faith in the church but have in a superior being.

NIMAN

If the Church was not involved in the Irish education system, you would see them die off a lot quicker.

If it was not for the danger of not getting my children educated in one of the local schools, I would probably have signed the 'Get Out of the Catholic Church' form a long time ago.

Kidchameleon

Even if all the religions die out, we'll still have the Atheists, who are more bloody "religious" than the most extreme Muslim/Catholic ect out there.

Kidchameleon

Calibos wrote: »

While science can't say definately what happens after death and thus doesn't say anything, I think its not a huge jump to conclude that when I die, it will 'feel' like the other 15 billions years before I was born, ie. Nothing!! That doesn't depress me or make my life feel like its not worth living, it makes me feel energised to fill my life with meaning because its the only shot at existence I will have.

Visited a medium a few years ago in Glasgow. Got messages from my dead dad, things that NOBODY but myself and him knew. Got messages to pass on to my family. I wonder how science would explain that?

stovelid

To use one superfluous comma, Mr. recyclingbin, may be regarded as a misfortune. To use both looks like carelessness

take everything

It is, not, beyond, the realm, of possibility.

Celly Smunt

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Visited a medium a few years ago in Glasgow. Got messages from my dead dad, things that NOBODY but myself and him knew. Got messages to pass on to my family. I wonder how science would explain that?

probability

Vicxas

pmcmahon wrote: »

probability

Highly likely probability.

iPlop

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Visited a medium a few years ago in Glasgow. Got messages from my dead dad, things that NOBODY but myself and him knew. Got messages to pass on to my family. I wonder how science would explain that?

Watch it, posters will probably call you stupid for believing that, this is Atheist Hours after all.

I believe you though:)

Celly Smunt

Vicxas wrote: »

Highly likely probability.

still plausible

RichieC

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Visited a medium a few years ago in Glasgow. Got messages from my dead dad, things that NOBODY but myself and him knew. Got messages to pass on to my family. I wonder how science would explain that?

everyone says this when they leave a medium.. going in the first place implies you believe in the rubbish, so for a start we're dealing with confirmation bias.

the other part is cold reading, a great skill to have in business, especially the "medium" business. they basically read your face as they talk and can tell by your face when they are getting close.


the awkward moment when someone tells you they went to a medium in real life...

pljudge321

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Even if all the religions die out, we'll still have the Atheists, who are more bloody "religious" than the most extreme Muslim/Catholic ect out there.

http://usahitman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/wtc-911.jpg :rolleyes:

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Visited a medium a few years ago in Glasgow. Got messages from my dead dad, things that NOBODY but myself and him knew. Got messages to pass on to my family. I wonder how science would explain that?

It's called cold reading, quite a common and well known technique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Ghost Buster

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Visited a medium a few years ago in Glasgow. Got messages from my dead dad, things that NOBODY but myself and him knew. Got messages to pass on to my family. I wonder how science would explain that?

I wonder how science can explain that as well.
I also wonder how Derren Brown, David Blane and Keith Barry would explain that seeing as they can all do it to.

RichieC

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Watch it, posters will probably call you stupid for believing that, this is Atheist Hours after all.

I believe you though:)

Christianity forbids mediums.

Leviticus 19:31
'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.'

Leviticus 20:27
"Men and women among you who act as mediums or psychics must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense."

ect.

Celly Smunt

RichieC wrote: »

Christianity forbids mediums.

Leviticus 19:31
'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.'

Leviticus 20:27
"Men and women among you who act as mediums or psychics must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense."

ect.

how can anybody say the bible promotes love and compassion with verses such as that

RichieC

pmcmahon wrote: »

how can anybody say the bible promotes love and compassion with verses such as that

they are light hearted verses. you should see the one about dashing unruly children off of rocks.

Don't believe what the internet tell you, both the koran and the bible are as barbaric as each other.

gbee

The-Rigger wrote: »

Though, comparatively I think worshipping the sun at least has some degree sort of merit and logic.

It's the fact that man wanted to believe in something was the impetuous for smarter men to invent outrageous things and make the masses do things they might not actually like doing.

And to force compliance in the absence of a standing army, local could behead you or stone you to death and they'd be rewarded with graces and blessing from Allah or God, or ...

Show Time

RichieC wrote: »

they are light hearted verses. you should see the one about dashing unruly children off of rocks.

Don't believe what the internet tell you, both the koran and the bible are as barbaric as each other.

They knew the value of a good ruck in the old testament at least.

philologos

RichieC wrote: »

they are light hearted verses. you should see the one about dashing unruly children off of rocks.

Not really. The Jewish law imposed the death penalty. As of Christ the death penalty no longer stands, as if Christ has taken away the penalty of one's sin how could one impose death for the penalty of theirs. That's the definition of hypocrisy. That's an essential view of the Christian faith as Christ taught it (Matthew 18), Christianity 101 one could say.

As for Psalm 137 which you are citing. It is referring to the anger that the writer had at the fact that the Jewish people were in Babylon. It is not God endorsing such an act. It is rather a man communicating his anger.

RichieC wrote: »

Don't believe what the internet tell you, both the koran and the bible are as barbaric as each other.

pmcmahon: Don't believe what the internet (including boards.ie and other sites) tell you. If you are really curious and you'd like to know the truth I can only say give God a go, ask Him to guide you and read the Bible for yourself. You might be surprised at what you'll find.

Having read the whole Bible from start to finish and several sections multiple times since then I can honestly say that RichieC is presenting you a disingenuous rendering. Find out for yourself is all I'll say.

Watch the videos I linked to earlier in the thread and ask if it makes sense.

bradlente

May think of something nice to do with with all dem lovely churches;)

Kidchameleon

pljudge321 wrote: »

It's called cold reading, quite a common and well known technique.

No sorry your wrong, I dont want to go into too many details but near the end of his life my old man was having some trouble (business was failing ect) and he was very very stressed. There was an incident where we threw a few digs at each other. We never spoke about it, we were the only ones at home at the time. The medium (in GLASGOW) was telling me that he said sorry about the "boxing match". Cold reading my arse!

iamstop

Will religion, in Ireland, die out?

I hope so.

pljudge321

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No sorry your wrong, I dont want to go into too many details but near the end of his life my old man was having some trouble (business was failing ect) and he was very very stressed. There was an incident where we threw a few digs at each other. We never spoke about it, we were the only ones at home at the time. The medium (in GLASGOW) was telling me that he said sorry about the "boxing match". Cold reading my arse!

Sounds exactly like cold reading. You told the "psychic" about the incident with your father and they spoonfed it back to you using your reactions to hone in on some specific details.

If anyone really had such actual abilities don't you think they'd be out changing the world, making a fortune or claiming any of numerous unclaimed prizes for demonstrated paranormal abilities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal.

RichieC

why has no psychic ever actually proven their gift?

wouldn't be surprised if that was somehow against the mediums rules, like using it to win the lottery..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btP_vy5cQq4

Kidchameleon

pljudge321 wrote: »

Sounds exactly like cold reading. You told the "psychic" about the incident with your father

Could you show me where in my post that I said I told the medium anything?

The medium had an assistant outside the room. She basically tells you what to expect. She tells you not to say anything for your own benefit, the reason being that you can trust what your hearing. The most I said was yes a few times for the whole reading. Basically what happened when I entered the room, he held my hand, closed his eyes and dident say anything for about two minutes. Then he opened his eyes and said:

Medium: There's a David here (not real name), does that name mean anything to you?

Me: Yes.

Medium: Well he's telling me he's your dad he died in August of a heart attack.

Me: Yes.

Medium: He's telling me your in Glasgow with you mam and your brother and they are are off visiting your aunt at the moment.

Me: Yes that's right.

It basically went on like this for about 20 mins.

Look you probably will not believe and I respect that. But I assure you that he was giving me messages from my dad, lots and lots of precise details. It actually felt like my dad was there that day, it was totally mad.

Oh by the way, there's a difference between a medium and a psychic.

dr.bollocko

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Could you show me where in my post that I said I told the medium anything?

The medium had an assistant outside the room. She basically tells you what to expect. She tells you not to say anything for your own benefit, the reason being that you can trust what your hearing. The most I said was yes a few times for the whole reading. Basically what happened when I entered the room, he held my hand, closed his eyes and dident say anything for about two minutes. Then he opened his eyes and said:

Medium: There's a David here (not real name), does that name mean anything to you?

Me: Yes.

Medium: Well he's telling me he's your dad he died in August of a heart attack.

Me: Yes.

Medium: He's telling me your in Glasgow with you mam and your brother and they are are off visiting your aunt at the moment.

Me: Yes that's right.

It basically went on like this for about 20 mins.

Look you probably will not believe and I respect that. But I assure you that he was giving me messages from my dad, lots and lots of precise details. It actually felt like my dad was there that day, it was totally mad.

Oh by the way, there's a difference between a medium and a psychic.

I'm sorry. But you were taken in by a charlatan who preys on the miserable to make a quick buck by telling them pretty lies, usually about the recently deceased.
It proves that some people are dicks. But it does not prove that god exists.

Kidchameleon

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I'm sorry. But you were taken in by a charlatan who preys on the miserable to make a quick buck by telling them pretty lies, usually about the recently deceased.
It proves that some people are dicks. But it does not prove that god exists.

I wasn't charged. And I never said god exists, just that I know an afterlife does.

Very impartial there bollocko. :rolleyes:

Still, I don't think this is really the place to decide that The god/Santa/cthulu/Allah/Vishnu/ceiling cat tradition should die out.

If you believe, you believe.

If you don't, you don't.

Most people posting here are set in their ways, not gonna change.

And round and round the merry-go-round goes......

Edit: to legally cover my ass (and cos it's true) I don't believe dr. bollocko had his Mod hat on when posting on this thread, nor do I believe he allows his opinion on the matter cloud any decisions he makes as Mod Almighty.

Now KNEEEL AND PAY TRIBUTE TO YOUR MOD!!!!!! *prostrates before dr. bollocko*

iPlop

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I wasn't charged. And I never said god exists, just that I know an afterlife does.

As do I.

hideous ape

philologos wrote: »

Not really. The Jewish law imposed the death penalty. As of Christ the death penalty no longer stands, as if Christ has taken away the penalty of one's sin how could one impose death for the penalty of theirs. That's the definition of hypocrisy. That's an essential view of the Christian faith as Christ taught it (Matthew 18), Christianity 101 one could say.

As for Psalm 137 which you are citing. It is referring to the anger that the writer had at the fact that the Jewish people were in Babylon. It is not God endorsing such an act. It is rather a man communicating his anger.



pmcmahon: Don't believe what the internet (including boards.ie and other sites) tell you. If you are really curious and you'd like to know the truth I can only say give God a go, ask Him to guide you and read the Bible for yourself. You might be surprised at what you'll find.

Having read the whole Bible from start to finish and several sections multiple times since then I can honestly say that RichieC is presenting you a disingenuous rendering. Find out for yourself is all I'll say.

Watch the videos I linked to earlier in the thread and ask if it makes sense.

You are so right.

I was just a psychotic serial killer until I read the Bible but now I'm Christian and my previous crimes against humanity are ok cause they all fit within the framework of the Bible. I live my life according to the bible now...ALL OF IT! So now I have over 100 slaves and will be buying a few more next week. A few of them disobeyed me so I beat them just enough so they would barely survive in hospital. Some of them are crippled for life but their still alive. All of them are African and Chinese but none of them are Jews though cause that would be wrong. This allows me off the hook according to God. Leviticus 25:44-46.

I now earn most of my considerable wealth by selling young girls into the sex trade. The recession has forced me to lower my prices but fortunately I am still turning a nice profit. I was disgusted to hear my Church was now cracking down on child sex:mad: Exodus 21:7-11.

I now kill numerous types of people every week by bashing their heads in with a rock. I have so far killed thousands of adulterous women and adulterous men, gay men, fortune tellers, etc. I especially enjoy killing people who work Sunday shifts at work. Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 20:27, Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:12-15.

I felt a bit down for killing so many random people so I went to my local priest. He absolved me from all my sins and now I'm happy again. I can now kill again with a smile on my face. 1 John 1:9.

Dear God, your direct instruction "Thou shalt not kill" seems to be completely ignored by almost everyone throughout the entire Bible so like everyone else in the Bible I went with just killing people for religious reasons and while bashing their heads in with rocks and as their blood & brains splattered all over the place I pretended this commandment was only more of a general guideline around which the killing of random people is ok in your name. I hope you approve but judging by your book you think I'm ace.

Oh look some Muslims have moved in next door...better get my skull bashing rocks cleaned up! Deuteronomy 13:7-12.

The Bible...the worlds best known slave labour, child sex, serial killing guide. Available in all good sex dungeons.

gbee

hideous ape wrote: »

You are so right.

The book of revelations is the origin of science. File Close. I'm sure he's only let out of his straight jacket once a month. :rolleyes:

Freddie59

Deleted User wrote: »

My kids will not be believers either.

So you won't allow them to make their own minds up?;):)

gbee

Freddie59 wrote: »

So you won't allow them to make their own minds up?;):)

This Kids indoctrination is relatively new. Upto 1906 or thereabouts, the First Holy Communion for Catholic Children did not take place until they were at least 12 years of age with no compulsion at that age, they had to be ready.

The Bishop would examine not only the child offered for the Sacrament, but parents and other sibblings would have to pass a test as well. Confirmation often followed two or three years later.

Not all religions accept indoctrinated children, the children must be of an age to accept and they must put themselves forward.

So to make up their own minds, they must be free. Whatever you learn as a child forms you, I believe a child has three rights in this world, their mother, their father and honesty.

After all Christ himself said upon this rock. Truth.

Freddie59

recylingbin wrote: »

I don't know anyone my age, or younger, who goes to mass. Apart from weddings, funerals, christenings and, maybe, christmas day.
Do you think participation in religion will shrink to levels of 15% or under when our parents generation die out?

The British Empire tried to crush it - and it survived against all the odds. it will do this time as well. But a different Church will emerge (personally I'd love to see it cede from Rome).

I'm 52, a massgoer all my life. But I also look around at the age profile on a Sunday and it is scary. But it WILL survive. No two ways about it. The faith is too strong - regardless of what the knockers and begrudgers say & wish.

housetypeb

Context,god damm it,context.
Is what the bible believers will say to explain why they no longer need to follow every rule in the bible ...including the ones in this funny letter doing the rounds of the internet



Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. She recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.

Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

Homer Simpson-Caldwell

gbee

Freddie59 wrote: »

But a different Church will emerge (personally I'd love to see it cede from Rome).

You known the Romans took over the Church in Rome and re-badged it as the Holy Roman Catholic Church, so it's in fact not Christ's Church at all.

In it's dying days, the Western Roman Empire was little more than a paedophile cults, having had one of its Emperors introduce the paedophile name into the terror we know today. From that point on the RCC was only a rouse ~ the rise of Islam came about because they did not like the way the new Church was going, it took them about 300 years to see the cesspit that the church was, about the time Islam was rising, St Patrick was doing his thing here.

Why not start your own church. You sound like a reasonable person and I'm sure there is a congregation waiting.

Dave!

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Could you show me where in my post that I said I told the medium anything?

The medium had an assistant outside the room. She basically tells you what to expect. She tells you not to say anything for your own benefit, the reason being that you can trust what your hearing. The most I said was yes a few times for the whole reading. Basically what happened when I entered the room, he held my hand, closed his eyes and dident say anything for about two minutes. Then he opened his eyes and said:

Medium: There's a David here (not real name), does that name mean anything to you?

Me: Yes.

Medium: Well he's telling me he's your dad he died in August of a heart attack.

Me: Yes.

Medium: He's telling me your in Glasgow with you mam and your brother and they are are off visiting your aunt at the moment.

Me: Yes that's right.

It basically went on like this for about 20 mins.

Look you probably will not believe and I respect that. But I assure you that he was giving me messages from my dad, lots and lots of precise details. It actually felt like my dad was there that day, it was totally mad.

Oh by the way, there's a difference between a medium and a psychic.

Would be nice if you had a recording, what you remember being said and what was actually said is probably different. Did he say "your father died in August of a heart attack", or "someone close to you died recently", and you filled in the rest of the details? Guess we'll never know.

I do know that Derren Brown and Keith Barry give readings too, and the people come out feeling just as convinced as you that their readings were specific and accurate. Those two know it's a trick though.

Kidchameleon

Dave! wrote: »

Would be nice if you had a recording, what you remember being said and what was actually said is probably different. Did he say "your father died in August of a heart attack", or "someone close to you died recently", and you filled in the rest of the details?

You'll find most mediums record their readings, I have a tape of my reading.

Paparazzo

philologos wrote: »

Not really. The Jewish law imposed the death penalty. As of Christ the death penalty no longer stands, as if Christ has taken away the penalty of one's sin how could one impose death for the penalty of theirs. That's the definition of hypocrisy. That's an essential view of the Christian faith as Christ taught it (Matthew 18), Christianity 101 one could say.

As for Psalm 137 which you are citing. It is referring to the anger that the writer had at the fact that the Jewish people were in Babylon. It is not God endorsing such an act. It is rather a man communicating his anger.



pmcmahon: Don't believe what the internet (including boards.ie and other sites) tell you. If you are really curious and you'd like to know the truth I can only say give God a go, ask Him to guide you and read the Bible for yourself. You might be surprised at what you'll find.

Having read the whole Bible from start to finish and several sections multiple times since then I can honestly say that RichieC is presenting you a disingenuous rendering. Find out for yourself is all I'll say.

Watch the videos I linked to earlier in the thread and ask if it makes sense.

Which version of the bible do you recommend?

philologos

Paparazzo: Whichever you find best readable. If the Bible is about you trying to find out more about the God of the Universe then it should be about what can help you to do that in the best way possible. I like the New International Version personally as its nice, clear and easy to read while maintaining the substance and the power behind God's word.

I generally read other Christian authors as well, but I would always make sure to check what they are saying first before deciding whether or not to agree with them necessarily. I also listen and watch debates and such between Christians and atheists. I found this series of podcasts incredibly useful for understanding the big picture of the Bible.

philologos

housetypeb: You do know that Dr. Laura Schlesinger is an Orthodox Jew rather than a Christian right? Of course the implications of Christianity are different from Judaism, simply because Christians believe that the Messiah has come and the Jews claim that they are still waiting. The New Testament is abundantly clear as to the Torah law being fulfilled by Christ. Namely that the penalty for sin has been paid by His crucifixion and that we've been born again by His resurrection. The New Testament is abundantly clear that the Old Testament serves as a sign of what was to come in Christ. That's why Christians read the Old Testament differently to Jews in that Christians take into account what Christ said and did for mankind when they read the Old Testament. Everything appears in a new light if you will:

2 Corinthians 3:13-18 wrote:

We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Freddie59

bnt wrote: »

Then 2011 is a chance for people to tell the truth, rather than fall back on the default "Catholic" position. I can understand that it might be uncomfortable to realise that the faith has gone (if it was ever there), but it's the only way we're going to get a clear picture of what's really happening to religion in Ireland.

Churches will come and go. Faith in the Almighty is eternal. Much as you may try to wish it away. Bidden or not bidden - God is present.;)

Freddie59

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

Im not wreacking my kids heads with going to church on a sunday morning.
Why the fvck would I want them sitting ina big room stating at some menlte case who hangin from a crosswhos the son of god. ?

Im sorry I can think of far better things to be doing.

If the catholic church disspanded our shores for more desserty surroundings Id be delighted.

Its a bain of a fair nation and has kept are backwards veiw in cheack for wat to many years.

Maybe using a spellchecker?

Freddie59

gbee wrote: »

the rise of Islam came about because they did not like the way the new Church was going, it took them about 300 years to see the cesspit that the church was

ISLAM? Are you serious??!! Bad example man!

gbee

Freddie59 wrote: »

ISLAM? Are you serious??!! Bad example man!

I'll only add that the RCC Church had attracted a large group of Eastern ideologies looking for a direction and swelled the RCC Church for unprecedented growth.

Approximately 300 years alter, all those eastern ideologists started to follow Islam.