Will religion, in Ireland, die out?

ScumLord

Openmp wrote: »

Oh yeah, it's impossible for a Christian to be an engineer. Sorry about that little oversight.

I never claimed any different,

You said this nonsense that scientists don't organise which is obviously arse.

Oh wait, you can't organise because ye don't believe in hierarchies and can't agree on anything because it would just turn into a bitter "I know better" shouting match. lol.

Dave!

Mad man...

Joey the lips

Openmp wrote: »

What?! Are you crazy??! I mean, I wouldn't even dare give a child a name - I mean, they're not old enough to decide for themselves.

What...?

johnnyjb

I think one of the reasons why it will die out is because it is more or less forced upon us by the educational system. People do not choose it so when they realise they can just forget about when they have there confirmation done or when old enough to do so. People would stick with it if they had choosen it in the begining.

The days of the church having a mental hold over irish soceity are hopefully gone and we can wipe away the scars of mental and physical abuse by evil men and women mainly men though.

Id love to see a priest try molest or abuse those children at a later stage of their lifes, they would be beaten to an inch of their life. Any one taking advantage of a child like that should be burnt tied to their beloved cross and the bishops who help hide them so get there bits chopped off and thrown to the sharks

Openmp

Joey the lips wrote: »

How do you know that.... really.... Assumptions are the mother of all fcuk ups...

http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/03/23/ranch-forced-religion-on-teens.htm

It seems all athiests dont share your beliefs


Perhaps we can look at some other trendy religion.

Getting atheists to agree on anything (except for a deep hatred for the word "Catholic") , would be like herding cats.

We've got the Pope and his Cardinals in the Vatican. They've got Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris and play flame wars on the interweb in the hope that they'll upset a few people. Shallow intellectualism at its very worst.

Pauleta

Of course religion will die out. Nothing lasts forever. I would imagine it will be laughed at in about 50 years.

ricman

And some people go to church when they have kids, when the kids reach a certain age eg 16 they stop going.And the parents stop going to.

Joey the lips

Openmp wrote: »

Getting atheists to agree on anything (except for a deep hatred for the word "Catholic") , would be like herding cats.

We've got the Pope and his Cardinals in the Vatican. They've got Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris and play flame wars on the interweb in the hope that they'll upset a few Catholics.

You have not answered the question...

Openmp

johnnyjb wrote: »

I think one of the reasons why it will die out is because it is more or less forced upon us by the educational system. People do not choose it so when they realise they can just forget about when they have there confirmation done or when old enough to do so. People would stick with it if they had choosen it in the begining.

The faithful paid for the schools. Why aren't the faithful atheists so generous? Sometimes I wonder if they really believe in their convictions at all... I'm sure the bishops would be willing to make a deal and let you go off and teach your little heresies. On condition that you ditch the persecution complex and learn to have some respect for the Christian faith. And until you come around to this way of thinking, put up, or shut up.

Wazdakka

Openmp wrote: »

Getting atheists to agree on anything (except for a deep hatred for the word "Catholic") , would be like herding cats.

We've got the Pope and his Cardinals in the Vatican. They've got Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris and play flame wars on the interweb in the hope that they'll upset a few Catholics.

Cats you say...

Greyfox

ScumLord wrote: »

Why emphasis that point, what does it matter? I watched a documentary on the Buddha at the weekend and found it a very good spiritual way of life. It focuses on the here and now, be good now and reap the rewards now the possibility of an afterlife shouldn't be needed.

I believe the emphasis is because it's the most important point in this thread, the reason so many people are happy to take the required leap of faith and overlook holes in their belief is because they can't live without this "hope" that death is not the end. For me and most other people I NEED the possibility that something might happen after I die. I realise some people can live without this hope but I know I'll never understand how anybody can live without this hope.

Biggins

recylingbin wrote: »

Will religion, in Ireland, die out?

We can only hope...

Openmp

ScumLord wrote: »

You said this nonsense that scientists don't organise which is obviously arse.

If you read the post again, you'll see that you got the semantics mixed up. I was referrring to atheists not organising. Which they don't. They're too afraid to.

PK2008

Openmp, before I wasnt really sure about religion, but I see now that it attracts only the most pleasant people, where do I sign up?

ScumLord

Greyfox wrote: »

I believe the emphasis is because it's the most important point in this thread, the reason so many people are happy to take the required leap of faith and overlook holes in their belief is because they can't live without this "hope" that death is not the end. For me and most other people I NEED the possibility that something might happen after I die. I realise some people can live without this hope but I know I'll never understand how anybody can live without this hope.

I don't know how anyone can ignore this paradise we live in with the hope of going to another paradise that looks suspiciously like this world in any pictures and description I've seen of it.

hairybowsie

Greyfox wrote: »

I believe the emphasis is because it's the most important point in this thread, the reason so many people are happy to take the required leap of faith and overlook holes in their belief is because they can't live without this "hope" that death is not the end. For me and most other people I NEED the possibility that something might happen after I die. I realise some people can live without this hope but I know I'll never understand how anybody can live without this hope.

thanks Greyfox. That is where is am too.

countrychick

I am a born again Christian and I love Jesus. I couldn't be bothered with religion because it distracts from what's really important, which is having a relationship with God. Sounds a bit mad and abstract but its not, it is very real and there are many people who are living it out in Ireland. I attend a church in the Liberties which has a mix of people from all over the city. We love God and the stories you will hear there about God changing lives may not convince you he is real but they will definitely challenge your thoughts on God.
We believe God loves this world and he wants to encounter people and change their lives for the better. I don't believe God is someone with a big stick ready to point out wrong he is really good and merciful! Liberty community church is on the web check it out!

Openmp

PK2008 wrote: »

Openmp, before I wasnt really sure about religion, but I see now that it attracts only the most pleasant people, where do I sign up?

I'm not pleasant to burglars. Why would I be "pleasant" to bunch of bigots? Frank explanations is what ye need. The time for placations is when you come to the negotiating table with some respect for the Christian faith. I'd be more than willing to meet you there.

ScumLord

Openmp wrote: »

If you read the post again, you'll see that you got the semantics mixed up. I was referrring to atheists not organising. Which they don't. They're too afraid to.

Again you make no sense as Atheist are involved in every part of science, they where more than likely responsible for designing the computer your using. Really you shouldn't be using such an evil device made by the heretics, unplug it quick and purge the room with fire.

PK2008

Openmp wrote: »

I'm not pleasant to burglars. Why would I be "pleasant" to bunch of bigots? Frank explanations is what ye need. The time for placations is when you come to the negotiating table with some respect for the Christian faith. I'd be more than willing to meet you there.

Formal wear or casual?

Openmp

PK2008 wrote: »

Formal wear or casual?

You wouldn't even know the difference, pal. Now go back to your little apartment, watch your TV and play with your computer like a good little boy.

Openmp

ScumLord wrote: »

Again you make no sense as Atheist are involved in every part of science, they where more than likely responsible for designing the computer your using. Really you shouldn't be using such an evil device made by the heretics, unplug it quick and purge the room with fire.

Why would I not enter into a business transaction with an atheist?! Is your mind racing just a little today? Did you forget to take your medication this morning?

I am very good friends with lots of atheists. And homosexuals. And adulters. While I don't agree with them and have no trouble in spelling out my disapproval, we can still be friends and forge deep and meaningful Platonic relationships that have lead me to wonderful places.

PK2008

Openmp wrote: »

You wouldn't even know the difference, pal. Now go back to your little apartment, watch your TV and play with your computer like a good little boy.

I love you Openmp, please love me back


(its your Christian duty, remember)

johnnyjb

Openmp wrote: »

The faithful paid for the schools. Why aren't the faithful atheists so generous? Sometimes I wonder if they really believe in their convictions at all... I'm sure the bishops would be willing to make a deal and let you go off and teach your little heresies. On condition that you ditch the persecution complex and learn to have some respect for the Christian faith. And until you come around to this way of thinking, put up, or shut up.

Why should we forget what these creatures have done. They have basically gotten away with it. Any punishment given is probably one out of ten that was commited. The punishments were soft in my opinion. Im sorry for you if you try to defend monsters, bigots,hypocrites,sexual defiants etc.. cause thats what makes up the vast majority of the catholic church in ireland imho.

No man should abstain from love and affection for his entire life.These things will happen and whan combined with the brainwashing and sense of authority they are encouraged into it only ends in trouble.There is nothin you can say that will change history. Priest ,bishops, and all other clergy are only like sales reps for a pyramid scheme of the soul.You ve obviously bought into the scheme which only helps a few and screw the rest.

But be content cause when you get raped abused attack and murdered you can be rest assured you ll be grand cause it is all in their gods plan and only a test of faith

Openmp

johnnyjb wrote: »

Why should we forget what these creatures have done. They have basically gotten away with it. Any punishment given is probably one out of ten that was commited. The punishments were soft in my opinion. Im sorry for you if you try to defend monsters, bigots,hypocrites,sexual defiants etc.. cause thats what makes up the vast majority of the catholic church in ireland imho.

Lest we forget that the government that you pay taxes towards and whose national anthem you stand to, was also responsible. How does having blood on your hands make you feel?

I see you also managed to get in an opportune little rant about celibacy while you were at it. Using the plight of victims so that you can make a swipe. Tut. Tut. Sure next you'll be producing scientific papers proving a causal relationship between celibates and children. Them Buddhists! They must be a bunch of paedo sickos too...

johnnyjb

Openmp wrote: »

Lest we forget that the government that you pay taxes towards and whose national anthem you stand to, was also responsible. How does having blood on your hands make you feel?

Explain how i personally have blood on my hands. You are really showing your bigotted views on how the church is always right. If you cant even see that or is it the case that your a priest or you have a priest shoving a dildo up your ass every night and you are inclined to defend them. I really hope you dont have children. Cause if they came home with a story of abuse id hate to hear you defend the system.

Come on like how stubborn and illusioned do people have to be to not realise the country was scammed into letting the church "rule".Do you like little boys:D im getting the feeling your trolling for a bit of young virgin blood. Admit it. Were you kicked out of the church for touching young boys.You might aswell admit it cause pople here can probably tell by now.

Thats how annoying your "answers" are. They dont answer anything just delays the truth

Nodin

Openmp wrote: »

Christians have (....)shouting match. lol.

Openmp wrote: »

You wouldn't even know the difference, pal. Now go back to your little apartment, watch your TV and play with your computer like a good little boy. .

My, aren't we a bit a angry.........

I wasn't aware that there was anything more to atheism than a disbelief in the supernatural.

Openmp

johnnyjb wrote: »

Explain how i personally have blood on my hands.

You are selective in your demands for justice; indicative of your anti-Catholic bias. You should be as angry with the State you reside in for their short-comings (failure of gardai to prosecute, failure of doctors/psychologists to report to the gardai, failure of the judiciary to convict and properly sentence, failure of the regional health boards to act, failure of the local politician to get his constituent "off the hook", failure of nurses/cleaners/handymen who turned a blind eye, etc., etc.), as you are with the church.

Child abuse has been rampant in Irish society. Thankfully, there is very little within the church in 2010. All abuse these days comes from elsewhere - the dark underbelly of the Utopian modern society that you so proudly trumpet. Children are safer in Catholic care than in any organisation in this country, because no other organisation has the same level of safe-guards in place. This work has been going on behind the scenes for over a decade now, the fruits of which are only now paying dividends.

Scarinae

starbelgrade wrote: »

My local church is packed out every Sunday - especially with young couples & kids.

I'd say that a lot of this has to do with the Church's stranglehold over our schools - you're more likely to get your kids into the local school if you go to mass every week & in country areas like mine, where there is no alternative to that, I can't see things changing all that fast.

I completely agree with you on this - it is an unfortunate reality that religion is still tied in with the Irish school system. One of my mother's friends didn't get her children baptised because she isn't religious, but then she had a lot of trouble getting them into good schools, and at one point she had the four kids in three different schools - their school run must have been a nightmare

So, even though I don't believe in god, if I have children in Ireland and the system has not changed I will baptise them

Openmp

PK2008 wrote: »

I love you Openmp, please love me back


(its your Christian duty, remember)

Unrequited love isn't love.

smokingman

As with a lot of people, I can only hope that the secularist view becomes the majority in my country. I'm not going to attack religions but it is my view that ANY religion that proposes an afterlife is forcing it's followers to not make the most of their lives, thus stiffling their ultimate productivity.

Some religious might well say "but the rules religious people live their lives by are inherrently for the good of mankind - love thy neighbour etc".

However, most of the "love thy neighbour/good morals" rules are inherrent in our species anyway and saying they come from an external source and that we would be horrible to each other without said external source is the one bug-bear I have with religions; in my own view, I have ultimate responsibilty for my actions and my future and I would be a lesser human if I took to blaming anything else for anything wrong in my life. I think this might be a cause of atheists "looking down" on religious people as they see it as a sign of being weak believing that something else is responsible for their lot in life instead of taking some personal responsibility.

Openmp

smokingman wrote: »

As with a lot of people, I can only hope that the secularist view becomes the majority in my country. I'm not going to attack religions but it is my view that ANY religion that proposes an afterlife is forcing it's followers to not make the most of their lives, thus stiffling their ultimate productivity.

On the contrary, if the afterlife is now, it's no wonder there are so many problems in the modern world. A world where ultimate justice doesn't exist, just self pleasure.

Nodin

Openmp wrote: »

Unrequited love isn't love.

....more like "worship"?

jemflux

The-Rigger wrote: »

Maybe it will be viewed the same way as many people nowadays would view our ancestors who used to worship the sun, hilarious.

Though, comparatively I think worshipping the sun at least has some degree sort of merit and logic.

You have a good point there, people will always look to someone or something
to try to make some sence of what they cannot understand, many religions have died throughout the Earths long existance and many more will, no matter how large their following. I just accept that it's not for me to understand what it's all about and neither do religious leaders, they just make a good living pretending they do.

TheBigLebowski

Openmp wrote: »

You are selective in your demands for justice; indicative of your anti-Catholic bias. You should be as angry with the State you reside in for their short-comings (failure of gardai to prosecute, failure of doctors/psychologists to report to the gardai, failure of the judiciary to convict and properly sentence, failure of the regional health boards to act, failure of the local politician to get his constituent "off the hook", failure of nurses/cleaners/handymen who turned a blind eye, etc., etc.), as you are with the church.

Child abuse has been rampant in Irish society. Thankfully, there is very little within the church in 2010. All abuse these days comes from elsewhere - the dark underbelly of the Utopian modern society that you so proudly trumpet. Children are safer in Catholic care than in any organisation in this country, because no other organisation has the same level of safe-guards in place. This work has been going on behind the scenes for over a decade now, the fruits of which are only now paying dividends.

Paedophile enabler.

GLaDOS

Openmp wrote: »

And homosexuals.

What?? Homosexuals! But the bible demands they be put to death:

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

By not killing them you're not carrying out your christian duty, I don't believe you're a chrisian at all.

smokingman

Openmp wrote: »

On the contrary, if the afterlife is now, it's no wonder there are so many problems in the modern world. A world where ultimate justice doesn't exist, just self pleasure.

Nothing wrong with self pleasure if you ask me

Seriously tho, there was a lot wrong with the world before religions and nothing has changed since. There will always be bad people, no matter what faith or lack of they have. Assigning "baddness" to a group you disagree with is another form of the lack of personal responsibility I'm talking about and this is practiced by a lot of supposed atheists who know no other way of doing things other than the religious way they were brought up and are rebelling against, ironically using the same methods they fight so hard to be against.

Noffles

Once the frightened older generation have popped their clogs and headed off to "who cares" then the younger and, lets be honest more clued up, will hopefully of all stopped going to the church and the whole Stephen King Story that is the Bible will no longer be in publication... and the country will be a better place!

mikom

Openmp wrote: »

You wouldn't even know the difference, pal. Now go back to your little apartment, watch your TV and play with your computer like a good little boy.

Lots of young boys running around in shorts? That's the kind of thing you like looking at.
You're probably imagining what they'd look like without shorts. You're sitting there, imagining that, with a big smile on your face. Ya dirty fecker!

Fr Ted quote..... not an attack.

cypharius

Openmp wrote: »

Christians have been evangelising since the year dot. Have you not got used to it yet? lol. Seeing as atheism is so great, would you not go and set up a Scientific Truth Foundation or something? Can you not convice a couple of million Irish atheists to put their money where their (very big) mouth is? Or are you waiting for "the government" to provide for you? Oh wait, you can't organise because ye don't believe in hierarchies and can't agree on anything because it would just turn into a bitter "I know better" shouting match. lol.

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god, we have nothing to evangilise about. There are many Scientific organisations, but they're more focused on finding stuff out.

Openmp

ScienceNerd wrote: »

What?? Homosexuals! But the bible demands they be put to death:

[/I]
By not killing them you're not carrying out your christian duty, I don't believe you're a chrisian at all.

Yawn. Since when does the Catholic Church teach the literal interpretation of the Old Testament? The Catholic Church is not some nut-job, low-church Protestant off-shoot that's rampant in certain states of the USA. I think you need to go back to school and learn the difference between a literal and a literary interpretation of the Old Testament.

Greyfox

smokingman wrote: »

I'm not going to attack religions but it is my view that ANY religion that proposes an afterlife is forcing it's followers to not make the most of their lives, thus stiffling their ultimate productivity.

Not true. I'm not a practising Catholic but sure if I wanted to be it would mean spending/wasteing an hour of my life a week, I could do that and still live a very fulfilling and enjoyable life

Sea Sharp

I'd say it'll continue to decline in popularity and authority.
The only reason for Catholicism staying around will be because people will want to continue traditions such as weddings christenings and funerals.
Religion is just a bad habit that we as a species will learn to get passed in the same sense that we've learned to sh1t in toilets and wash ourselves regularly.

cypharius

Openmp wrote: »

Yawn. Since when does the Catholic Church teach the literal interpretation of the Old Testament? The Catholic Church is not some nut-job Protestant off-shoot that's rampant in certain states of the USA. I think you need to go back to school and learn the difference between a literal and a literary interpretation of the Old Testament.

Yeah, the Catholic church comes up with their own nonsense. Stuff like condoms and doomsday, etc.

Openmp

cypharius wrote: »

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god, we have nothing to evangilise about. There are many Scientific organisations, but they're more focused on finding stuff out.

How convenient. Essentially you're admitting atheism's intellectual shallowness and cowardice. Afraid to hold and document an opinion that can be held up for scrutiny. Instead, you drown slowly in a sea of relativism; the basis of your preach being not the merits of atheism, but the criticism of others.

smokingman

Greyfox wrote: »

Not true. I'm not a practising Catholic but sure if I wanted to be it would mean spending/wasteing an hour of my life a week, I could do that and still live a very fulfilling and enjoyable life

...but you'd be doing everything with the thought that there's something better after you're dead, ultimately stopping you from getting the most out of the life you have here on planet Earth...

Openmp

smokingman wrote: »

...but you'd be doing everything with the thought that there's something better after you're dead, ultimately stopping you from getting the most out of the life you have here on planet Earth...

The highest faculties of human intelligence and reasoning of this world are not to be found in the pursuit of primordial pleasures.

Openmp

cypharius wrote: »

Yeah, the Catholic church comes up with their own nonsense. Stuff like condoms and doomsday, etc.

Do you even know the Catholic Church's stance on "doomsday"?

ScumLord

Openmp wrote: »

You are selective in your demands for justice; indicative of your anti-Catholic bias. You should be as angry with the State you reside in for their short-comings (failure of gardai to prosecute, failure of doctors/psychologists to report to the gardai, failure of the judiciary to convict and properly sentence, failure of the regional health boards to act, failure of the local politician to get his constituent "off the hook", failure of nurses/cleaners/handymen who turned a blind eye, etc., etc.), as you are with the church.

Yes, although at the time the church probably had more power than these people making them subordinates. How many of these Gardai, politicians and public servants are still in office. Mostly they made mistakes, they didn't take action, the priest raped children and the church created a place where they could get away with it. We can change our government but we have no say in the church.

Scarinae

Openmp wrote: »

How convenient. Essentially you're admitting atheism's intellectual shallowness and cowardice. Afraid to hold and document an opinion that can be held up for scrutiny. Instead, you drown slowly in a sea of relativism; the basis of your preach being not the merits of atheism, but the criticism of others.

Er, what? So atheism is "afraid to hold and document an opinion that can be held up to scrutiny" - what about religion? Religion doesn't hold up to scrutiny, there is absolutely no falsifiable evidence of the existence of any gods

Openmp wrote: »

The highest faculties of human intelligence and reasoning of this world are not to be found in the pursuit of primordial pleasures.

They're certainly not found in the pursuit of religion either