Taking a friend shooting

Odysseus

A friend is interested in learning to hunt/shoot. He will be coming out with me to get a sense of things. Can I legally allow him to fire my gun?

Dannyboy1987

I'd say so because the licence for only owning the gun ? you can bring a friend to range

Sparks

For hunting out in the field, no, it's not legal unless he has a training or full licence on the firearm.
For shooting on the range, yes, it's legal, but check with the range about their local rules first (as always, obviously!).

pajero2005

Dannyboy1987 wrote: »

I'd say so because the licence for only owning the gun ? you can bring a friend to range

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The old paper licence said something like " Joe Bloggs is granted permission to own, carry and discharge the firearm bearing the serial no xxxxxxxx"


Or something to that effect. Might be worth putting a call into your F.O. for clarification.

As always, I'm open to correction on this.

meathstevie

It's not the ownership as such that's the problem it's having possession and control that requires a licence. I can buy a rifle or shotgun right now in a dealer's and there's absolutely no problem with that. To take possession of it I'll need it licenced though.

Odysseus

Ok he just have to watch and learn then, cheers lads.

deeksofdoom

Odysseus wrote: »

Ok he just have to watch and learn then, cheers lads.

Ah go on and let him take a shot!

Odysseus

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Ah go on and let him take a shot!

That I suppose will be the difference between stating one thing on boards and what happens in the real world;)

deeksofdoom

Odysseus wrote: »

That I suppose will be the difference between stating one thing on boards and what happens in the real world;)

I thought as much

bunny shooter

11th Commandment ............... Don't get caught !

Sparks

No, the 11th is "Don't advise people on boards.ie to do something they'd then get in trouble for doing"

Rovi

Odysseus wrote: »

That I suppose will be the difference between stating one thing on boards and what happens in the real world;)

Perhaps a little more accurately, it's the difference between what can be said or written in a very public place, viewable and available to anyone and everyone, and what may, allegedly, happen in the real world.
Allegedly.

deerhunter1

pajero2005 wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The old paper licence said something like " Joe Bloggs is granted permission to own, carry and discharge the firearm bearing the serial no xxxxxxxx"


Or something to that effect. Might be worth putting a call into your F.O. for clarification.

As always, I'm open to correction on this.

"To have in your posession, to carry and to hold" and no you cannot let anyone else fire your weapon unless that person holds a licence for same, even if they have a firearms licence for another firearm, unless on an authorised range under supervision.

pedroeibar1

deerhunter1 wrote: »

"To have in your posession, to carry and to hold" and no you cannot let anyone else fire your weapon unless that person holds a licence for same, even if they have a firearms licence for another firearm, unless on an authorised range under supervision.

Mmmm... is it not sort of strange that the Willy character above (he with central vision) is staring over a barrel at everyone? Is he licensed?
Ahem, ducking.
P:D

dCorbus

Ok, here i go being pedantic:
deerhunter1, where are you getting that wording?:

"To have in your posession, to carry and to hold"

What the licence states is that "you are authorised to have in your possession, use, and carry".

Sorry for being pedantic, but that's what my licences state, do yours state otherwise? Just interested to know if there are variations in the licence wording across the country?

And on the particularly bee I have in my bonnet this evening (I need to a pint TBH):

@ Danny1987 -

I'd say so because the licence for only owning the gun

Where are some of you lads getting this s***e?
Have you even seen a licence, my friend?
Go on, take it out of your pocket and read what it says.

If you have even seen what is written on the licence / cert or haven't bothered your arse to find out what it does or does not authorise the holder to do, please please please......

Stop this incessant misinformation on boards!

I'm starting to think some lads are coming on here and deliberately and systematically conducting a campaign of misinformation and giving lads bad and blatently inaccurate advice.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but already this evening there's been a number of posts purporting to be providing "information" but which are blatently BS. Lads given opinions is one thing - but posting totally fabricated or unsubstantiated information is a whole other ball of wax.

Paranoid.....me? Never!:rolleyes:

you cannot let anyone else fire your weapon

:mad:
OK, I'm going to need to calm down, take a deep breath, and count to 10........

There's that f***in' w-word again!

You, Sir, may possess a weapon, I own firearms, rifles to be exact.

Now, off with me to take that chill-pill!:D

deerhunter1

dCorbus wrote: »

Ok, here i go being pedantic:
deerhunter1, where are you getting that wording?:



What the licence states is that "you are authorised to have in your possession, use, and carry".

Sorry for being pedantic, but that's what my licences state, do yours state otherwise? Just interested to know if there are variations in the licence wording across the country?



:mad:
OK, I'm going to need to calm down, take a deep breath, and count to 10........

There's that f***in' w-word again!

You, Sir, may possess a weapon, I own firearms, rifles to be exact.

Sh-t where did I get that from Im toooo lazy to get off the couch and check, cannot leave my glass of Merlot and John Wayne on Sky Movies (The Searchers 1956) But I will check and get back to you

dCorbus

No worries.:D
Mmmmmmm merlot:cool:

Tackleberrywho

dCorbus wrote: »

No worries.:D
Mmmmmmm merlot:cool:

Question.

If there is only one gun the other person can carry it for safety reasons, crossing ditch etc I think that is the only time in the field.

McDouwel excuse spelling wanted to sort this out and make it legal.

It should be legal, but not currently.
If there was such a thing as a provisional licence for the field, use only when licenced firearm owner is wit you to keep an eye on things.

When I was a kid there was a lot less laws and a lot more fun. The memories of looking forward to burning rubbish on a sat just to watch the aerosols go off, my dad was off saturdays so that was Rubbish day!

Now thats illegal too! And rightly so lol

No6

And now that you know the exact legalities of the situation go off out and use your common sense, if a friend of mine hadn't let me shoot his rifle's and shotgun the first time I wouldn't now have firearms of my own! I had absolutely no interest until I first pulled a trigger and now I'm hooked!!!:D

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.......If there was such a thing as a provisional licence for the field, use only when licenced firearm owner is wit you to keep an eye on things.........

Training certificate ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Perhaps.

Mr.Flibble

Read the Firearms Act 1925 Section 2. (3) (f)

Then ask someone less inscrutable and more highly motivated than me, like RRPC, Sparks or the horses mouth (or a*se, depending on your point of view) in the DoJ if a) it hasn't been repealed and b) it covers your case.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Training certificate ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Perhaps.

But the age is the question. I fired my firs gun age 10, it was my grandad's and he's dead and I was a child so i can divulge.

I was hooked when i say me da Blow a crow ateing spuds in the back garden with the stevens when i was 4

bunny shooter

ezridax wrote: »

Training certificate ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Perhaps.

Beat me to it

He don't know as much as he thinks he does

Mr.Flibble

dCorbus wrote: »

What the licence states is that "you are authorised to have in your possession, use, and carry".

Sorry for being pedantic, but that's what my licences state, do yours state otherwise? Just interested to know if there are variations in the licence wording across the country?

Must be. Mine says "who is hereby authorised to have in their possession, use and carry..."

Not pedantic enough, it would appear.

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Beat me to it

He don't know as much as he thinks he does

Nor do you Bunny, If you did you would be answering all the questions not just sniping from the long grass

The more I know, The more I know, I don't know.
My knowledge of the world is limited to my experiences and my upbringing, I am not afraid to make mistakes or speak out on issue I believe in.
Some just wait for others to make mistakes and then laugh, but are afraid to make mistakes them selves

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Nor do you Bunny, If you did you would be answering all the questions not just sniping from the long grass

The more I know, The more I know, I don't know.
My knowledge of the world is limited to my experiences and my upbringing, I am not afraid to make mistakes or speak out on issue I believe in.
Some just wait for others to make mistakes and then laugh, but are afraid to make mistakes them selves

I only answer questions and comment on things I know about

Using Google just isn't the same as real experience :P

Important thing about making mistakes it to learn from the mistakes

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

I only answer questions and comment on things I know about ;)So do I bunny

Important thing about making mistakes it to learn from the mistakes

Yes, I try.
So what have been your mistakes to date?

my biggest mistake was giving to much open and honest information to you; when you were only engaging in entrapment to make a mockery of my opinions.

I was also advised to ignore you but I could not resist replying on issues I was passionate about, another big mistake on my behalf!

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Yes, I try.

:cool:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

So what have been your mistakes to date?

Lots more than you

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

my biggest mistake was giving to much open and honest information to you; when you were only engaging in entrapment to make a mockery of my opinions.

Now that is unfair I challenge your opinions which you obviously don't like

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I was also advised to ignore you but I could not resist replying on issues I was passionate about, another big mistake on my behalf!

Now that was good advice You should really learn to accept such good advice All's not lost as long as you've learned from your mistake

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

:cool:



Lots more than you



Now that is unfair I challenge your opinions which you obviously don't like



Now that was good advice You should really learn to accept such good advice All's not lost as long as you've learned from your mistake

I just can't resist.
I only started posting on this boards site in earnest a few months ago as I started a college course that required a lot of research. Which meant I was online a lot.

upside I discovered today i have a WW1 bayonet and am in the process of finding the first owners name because of boards.

I also learned I was living close to a genius custom rifle maker because of boards.

To this I thank boards.
So as this is completely off thread can we go back to taking a friend shooting.;)

Dusty87

I sence a bit of hostility lads. Everyday i log on im sure of a bit of bitchin from yee two:D:D
This aint the ladies lounge:D


Aaaaanyways,
So whats the story if i bring my brother with me on our own land. Can he not legally fire my my gun if im with him??? Or does it have to be an authorised range??/

dCorbus

Can he not legally fire my my gun if im with him

Correct, legally he cannot fire your gun because he does not have a licence for it.

The best answer's you will get are in the previous posts #8, #10, and #11 (Read between the not-so-subtle lines!;))

If you are waiting for someone to suggest or advise you that you allow a non-licenced member of the public discharge your firearm over private land, and thus commit a crime, I would suggest that you may be a while looking for this advise.;)

It's kinda a strange question to be asking on a very public forum!:)

Cass

Dusty87 wrote: »

........... Can he not legally fire my my gun if im with him??? Or does it have to be an authorised range??/

Legally, no. Any person wishing to use anothers firearm must have a license (training cert) for that firearm. Legally. Irrespective of location, field, range, etc.

There is some law/legalities regarding shooting on an authorised range, but i'm not overly familiar with them, but i think that is with a club firearm and not someone else's firearm.

I'm sure the more educated amongst us will be here shortly to clarify.

dCorbus

+1 what ez sayz

but i think that is with a club firearm and not someone else's firearm

AFAIK, if you are not using your own gun for which you hold a FAC, you may only shoot on a range with a club gun, technically speaking;). But I'm very much open to correction on that.

Dusty87

dCorbus wrote: »

It's kinda a strange question to be asking on a very public forum!:)

dCorbus, i wasnt being smart with the question. I thought i had read somewhere that, once accompanied by landowner/firearm owner it was ok to use in their presence, if you understand. Now it could have been an english site. I cant remember its that long ago. I just said id ask so im 100% sure where the law lies.


PS. if you look back at threads the last few weeks, you will notice there's a lot of 'strange' almost 'trick questions' the last few weeks. Funny you should mention it, as me and another poster have been talking about it recently.

Sparks

ezridax wrote: »

Legally, no. Any person wishing to use anothers firearm must have a license (training cert) for that firearm. Legally. Irrespective of location, field, range, etc.

There is some law/legalities regarding shooting on an authorised range, but i'm not overly familiar with them, but i think that is with a club firearm and not someone else's firearm.

I'm sure the more educated amongst us will be here shortly to clarify.

If you're on an authorised range, you don't need a licence. At all. That's been confirmed by the DoJ as well - but local club rules may intervene. Check with your local RO first.

Cass

ezridax wrote: »

I'm sure the more educated amongst us will be here shortly to clarify.

Sparks wrote:

If you're on an authorised range, you don't need a licence. At all. That's been confirmed by the DoJ as well............

See.

Any chance, for me and others, you could elaborate? Can you use someone else's firearm on an authorised range? Or is it just club firearms?

dCorbus

i wasnt being smart with the question

no worries, dusty87
I didn't think you were being smart.

Thanks to captain sparks, as ever, for clarifying what has been clarified. It's good to see that the DoJ are taking a realistic and pragmatic approach to this. How else would any shooter (myself included) have got started in the sport otherwise.

if you look back at threads the last few weeks, you will notice there's a lot of 'strange' almost 'trick questions' the last few weeks. Funny you should mention it, as me and another poster have been talking about it recently.

I'm glad you mentioned it - I was starting to think I was getting paranoid!

It almost seems, sometimes, as if we're being tested?
Journos, DoJ, GS, who knows?
Or maybe just trolls?:D

Best be careful out there!;)

If you're on an authorised range, you don't need a licence. At all. That's been confirmed by the DoJ as well

Thanks for this sparks - Do we have this in writing or is there a regulation to back this up? Not doubting you obviously:D, I know you far too well, for that: But it would be good if you could point us to where or whom this has been confirmed? Thanks.

Again, my paranoic and pedantic tendencies kicking in - If I can't read it in B/W, and be able to quote the relevant section or regulation, it does sit comfortably with me.:o

(EDIT: Ezridax got there before me......Must.....type.....faster.....)

BornToKill

Section 2 (1) of the Firearms Act 1925 makes it an offence to possess, use or carry a firearm without having a certificate for it. Sections 2 (3) and 2 (4) then set out exceptions. Most of these are irrelevant to this discussion (Army, Gardaí, etc.) but section 2 (4) (d) relates to ranges and says it's okay as long as the range is authorised (section 2 (5)) and the firearm is not a restricted firearm (section 2 (6)):

"Section 2 (4) This section shall not apply to any of the following cases and such cases are accordingly excepted from this section, that is to say:


... (d) the possession, use or carriage of a firearm or ammunition during a competition or target practice at a club, shooting range or any other place that stands authorised under this section or section 4A of this Act


(5) (a) The Superintendent of any district may authorise in writing the possession, use or carriage of firearms or ammunition in that district in any of the circumstances specified in paragraphs (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (j) or (k) of subsection (4) of this section, or of any component parts of a firearm during such period, not exceeding one year, as may be specified in the authorisation.


(6) In subsections (3)(g) and (4) (other than paragraphs (i) and (k)), references to a firearm or ammunition do not include references to a restricted firearm or restricted ammunition."

It's also permissible where the person has a firearms training certificate under section 2A. Again, this can't be a restricted firearm and must be under the supervision of a specified person over 18 years of age who holds a firearm certificate in respect of it, and where the firearm is used for target shooting, on the premises of an authorised rifle or pistol club or at an authorised shooting range or other place that stands authorised under section 2(5) of the Act.

meathstevie

And of course there's the exceptions for auctioneers involved in firearms auction, staff in gunshops, a Garda in the course of his duty, members of the Defence Forces etc etc....

Long story short is don't give someone a lend of your gun and don't have a lend of someone's gun outside a range if you don't want to find yourself in a pile of potential bother.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

If you're on an authorised range, you don't need a licence. At all. That's been confirmed by the DoJ as well - but local club rules may intervene. Check with your local RO first.

Anyone know where Clay Pigeon shooting stands in all of this?

Tackleberrywho

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone know where Clay Pigeon shooting stands in all of this?

On a point of law there should be no difference, but I'll await the legal eagles on this one.
Clay grounds are authorized ranges AFAIK

Sparks

Clay pigeon grounds might be odd - they're not licenced as rifle ranges are, but could be authorised by the local superintendent without the licence, and it's that authorisation that counts.