Eircom is on the brink of collapse warns union boss

97i9y3941

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/eircom-is-on-the-brink-of-collapse-warns-union-boss-2169598.html

The Communications Workers Union (CWU) has claimed there is a "real possibility" that the communications company could undergo a major restructuring, affecting the thousands of jobs based here.

General Secretary Stevie Fitzpatrick said the "perilous" financial situation of the company as well as the loss of customers posed a threat to the future of the company.

"This once great company is now on the brink of collapse and the silence from Government and the Regulator, both of whom can play a part in rescuing the company, is both deafening and extremely worrying," said Mr Fitzpatrick at the union's biennial conference.

The union said the Government needed to take Eircom's future seriously and "support the company, or else it will be facing another very costly collapse". The Employee Share Ownership Plan (Esop) owns 35pc of the company.

However, Eircom refuted the claims and said in a statement it was "confident" that it could resolve its cost issues.

"Eircom is making very significant strides for the future," it said. "In recent months, we have stabilised our ownership structure, and secured in ST Telemedia a strategic partner for the future."

The statement said Eircom had eliminated its pension deficit and reduced its operating costs by €130m, or 17pc, since the 2007-2008 fiscal year.

Separately, STT, the Singapore-based owner of Eircom, has set up an international advisory body to help manage its investment here.

The body hasn't met yet and is expected to have at least half a dozen members, including Brendan Tuohy, a former secretary general of the Department of Communications.

Earlier this week, UPC hiked up the pressure on Eircom in the broadband market.

The organisation announced a 100Mbits/sec product and by mobile operators upgrading their infrastructure.

The company said that later this year it would launch a 100Mbits/sec broadband product expected to be priced at around €80-90 per month, in line with its other European offerings.

Eircom has rolled out a next-generation network that has raised its entry-level broadband speeds to 8Mbits/sec, but going faster than its top-end 24Mbits/sec product would require significant investment in its DSL-based infrastructure that it is not in a position to undertake.

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Im not surprised to be honest,i sympathise those who could lose their jobs,but i think its eircoms own arrogance that could leave it to slowly dying..

northwest100

Well, we could always bail them out...nothing like propping up a failed business with tax payers money.

Scarab80

Now that UPC are providing VOIP over their own network Eircom have lost their monopoly over telephony infrastructure and are being forced to compete in all markets.

They have had a big headstart in terms of numbers of customers and control over the infrastructure, if they are crumbing at the first sign of real competition they need to restructure. They should be given no special support by either the government or the regulator.

gurramok

No tears shed here. They have been screwing customers with the highest line rental in the EU and at the same time hampering broadband services for years. The establishment of Ireland Offline nearly 10 yrs ago is a testament to their arrogance.

Also, their blocking of certain websites willy nilly without even sticking up for the consumer is a no-no from me.

Liam Byrne

Scarab80 wrote: »

They have had a big headstart in terms of numbers of customers and control over the infrastructure, if they are crumbing at the first sign of real competition they need to restructure. They should be given no special support by either the government or the regulator.

+1 The government sold it (including - ridiculously - the infrastructure) and ever since then any so-called "investors" just wanted a quick buck.

Eircom played dirty, delaying LLU and screwing the best broadband company I ever used - Smart -demanding payment despite them [eircom] not providing the LLU that had been legally required of them.

UPC are competing now, but even that is about 10 years after they should have.

So that's one hell of a head-start that eircom had, and it's up to them to sort it out.

If any more supposedly private companies get given my tax money and bailed out then I'm not going to be responsible for what I do to the first government TD that arrives canvassing on my doorstep.

ei.sdraob

good riddance to a bad smell

now knowing our government they will bail them out

sure who needs capitalism when you can have bailoutism

Sleepy

It's funny, both those of us in favour of competition and those in favour of a planned economy can point to this one company to show the worst elements of capitalism (asset stripping a viable company) and the worst inefficiencies created by militantly unionised staff in a former state body...

I'm not going to cheer the company going under but I expect whoever takes control of the network will do a far superior job (assuming they're kept private or, at the least, run as a private sector body).

ei.sdraob

Sleepy wrote: »

It's funny, both those of us in favour of competition and those in favour of a planned economy can point to this one company to show the worst elements of capitalism (asset stripping a viable company) and the worst inefficiencies created by militantly unionised staff in a former state body...

I'm not going to cheer the company going under but I expect whoever takes control of the network will do a far superior job (assuming they're kept private or, at the least, run as a private sector body).

Hmm

they could have done what was done to ESB

spin of the infrastructure to state company (lets call it Eirgridtelecom :P)

And the rest privatized completely (ESB hasn't gone that far)

Then once competition sets in with few companies sell the infrastructure bit by bit to these companies

P. Breathnach

Sleepy wrote: »

It's funny, both those of us in favour of competition and those in favour of a planned economy can point to this one company to show the worst elements of capitalism (asset stripping a viable company) and the worst inefficiencies created by militantly unionised staff in a former state body...

You forgot something: it is also an instance of a badly-conceived privatisation model.

Sleepy

That would be the root cause of the asset stripping alright.

Scarab80

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You forgot something: it is also an instance of a badly-conceived privatisation model.

It was badly concieved because they privatised the network infrastructure, but this gave Eircom an advantage not a disadvantage.

It is an example of a semi-state not adjusting sufficiently to market competition.

RichardAnd

Hasn't Eircom been a disaster since it was privatised? I mean, does anyone recall when thousands invested in it and lost a fortune?

97i9y3941

its was resold about 5 times i think,the mobile end meteor is only good thing about them,they gave two fingers to people in rural areas aswell,which left alot of them switching to wireless providers..

Bugnug

Good. I hope somebody buys whats left and makes a proper business out of it. So many issues with them I dont know where to start. The attitude of the old biddies that work in the place is criminal. Hate the company.

ei.sdraob

RichardAnd wrote: »

Hasn't Eircom been a disaster since it was privatised? I mean, does anyone recall when thousands invested in it and lost a fortune?

when alot of common people get into investing
it never ends well
just look at the housing bubble


another alternative could have been to split the company into 4 equal sized companies and then privatize, if one failed the others would have stepped in

Sponge Bob

If (when) eircom collapses there is no threat to the workforce, only to the bondholders who hold €4bn of their toilet paper grade scrip and to the shareholders..the Trust and the Singaporeans who only paid €150m for it in total anyway.

Kensington

Bugnug wrote: »

Good. I hope somebody buys whats left and makes a proper business out of it. So many issues with them I dont know where to start. The attitude of the old biddies that work in the place is criminal. Hate the company.

The network infrastructure is of little value at this stage, it's all 20th century copper which is in sorry, sorry condition. The backhaul is not much better, being a mishmash of newer IP and older ATM. You'd be better off just building your own optical fibre network from scratch than trying to acquire and upgrade Eircom's.

Can't say I feel too sorry for the company, management brought it entirely upon themselves. They're an incredibly unpleasant company to deal with. They neglected rural Ireland by not rolling out DSL and now you have wireless and mobile operators who have moved in to take the place, and with mobile pricing becoming ever cheaper and with free in-network calls available as part of packages not much more than line rental alone with Eircom, many people are questioning why they need a landline at all. Then, in the built up areas where they really tried to push their DSL service they're being thrashed by the likes of UPC, Digiweb Metro, Magnet and Smart fibre who have moved in and offered broadband and phone over their own independent networks, at much reduced prices to Eircom.

dromdrom

Having the displeasure to currently be an eircom customer (9 months left on contract and counting, moved into rental accomodation and with the free line installation eircom was way cheaper if I took a one year contract) gotta say it can't happen soon enough, militant unionised staff with a sense of entitlement second only to your local friendly HSE clerk.

P. Breathnach

dromdrom wrote: »

Having the displeasure to currently be an eircom customer (9 months left on contract and counting, moved into rental accomodation and with the free line installation eircom was way cheaper if I took a one year contract) gotta say it can't happen soon enough, militant unionised staff with a sense of entitlement second only to your local friendly HSE clerk.

How do the "militant unionised staff with a sense of entitlement" impact on your customer experience?

Sponge Bob

Kensington wrote: »

Now you have wireless and mobile operators who have moved in to take the place, and with mobile pricing becoming ever cheaper and with free in-network calls available as part of packages not much more than line rental alone with Eircom, many people are questioning why they need a landline at all. Then, in the built up areas where they really tried to push their DSL service they're being thrashed by the likes of UPC, Digiweb Metro, Magnet and Smart fibre who have moved in and offered broadband and phone over their own independent networks, at much reduced prices to Eircom.

They have gone from near 90% of households with a landline to 65% now. Having the highest line rental on the entire planet does that. Most people under 30 see a landline as a sort of expensive curio....even though it beats the hell out of crummy mobile broadband in most places.

And UPC are really piling the heat on, they can compete against eircom for about 500k of the countrys 1.6m homes today and will probably reach 40% by end 2011. They are likely to leave eircom with the least profitble half of their customer base and the urban pensioners. Then again eircom promised the cities VDSL by now and still nowt

RichardAnd

ei.sdraob wrote: »

when alot of common people get into investing
it never ends well
just look at the housing bubble


another alternative could have been to split the company into 4 equal sized companies and then privatize, if one failed the others would have stepped in

That's true all right. I was only about 13 or so when Eircom was sold off so I don't really recall the details too well, I guess I was too preoccupied with the frivolities of youth .

dromdrom

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How do the "militant unionised staff with a sense of entitlement" impact on your customer experience?

Have you ever rang Eircom?

ei.sdraob

dromdrom wrote: »

Have you ever rang Eircom?

last I did ring them it was an automated computer yoke

when I said

"you ****ing computer, put me thru to an operator"

it replied

"I might be a program but I still make mistakes"

thats when I burst out laughing they actually put the effort into programming the VOIP like program of theirs to respond to the F word with humour, brilliant

P. Breathnach

dromdrom wrote: »

Have you ever rang Eircom?

Yes. Many times (I had a dispute with them a couple of years ago). I never experienced anything but courtesy when I managed to get through to people.

Getting to the right people was often a challenge because Eircom seemed to have constructed an obstacle course.

The matters in dispute could be blamed on management (selling something as more than it was) and problems with resolving it arose because staff did not have the authority to do anything about it. Escalating the dispute until I reached the level where somebody could do something about it was difficult -- again, I put this down to management strategy.

Yes, I was very frustrated and angry, but it was caused by Eircom as an institution rather than by the people who had to deal with me.

Welease

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Yes. Many times (I had a dispute with them a couple of years ago). I never experienced anything but courtesy when I managed to get through to people.

Getting to the right people was often a challenge because Eircom seemed to have constructed an obstacle course.

The matters in dispute could be blamed on management (selling something as more than it was) and problems with resolving it arose because staff did not have the authority to do anything about it. Escalating the dispute until I reached the level where somebody could do something about it was difficult -- again, I put this down to management strategy.

Yes, I was very frustrated and angry, but it was caused by Eircom as an institution rather than by the people who had to deal with me.

You are correct.. but I've always found an institution IS the people that I deal with.. Especially a company who have had so many owners in recent years..

It's not the parent company... it's not the owner.. Eircom is the people who work for Eircom.. the inherent culture is from the employees, the current owners are not in place long enough to change that.

The_Honeybadger

A parent of a good friend of mine works for the company, on the road as an engineer. I must say if he is typical of the staff there (I hope he is not) then it is no wonder the company is in big trouble. The man does as little as he can possibly get away with, parks the eircom van around the back of the house by night so that nobody will notice he is at home in the morning. I promise this is not a lie, he once took nearly two full weeks off without permission or notice, and regularly takes days off here and there. His attitude seems to be "sure f**k em, let them try and sack me", as he is in the union, although i don't think he has ever been pulled up about this. My point is not about this one staff member who is criminally lazy, but the fact that he can get away with this outrageous behavior, seemingly with nobody noticing. He also told me that some of the other staff who work on the ground have nothing to do, as they have lost alot of business so there are no service calls to be done, but they still have to be paid to sit in the van. I have often wondered how the company is still functioning with practices like this. This is all anecdotal, but it really would seem that the company needs to review its management and staffing practices, as well as the other more obvious business challenges they face from competition.

P. Breathnach

Welease wrote: »

You are correct.. but I've always found an institution IS the people that I deal with.. Especially a company who have had so many owners in recent years..

It's not the parent company... it's not the owner.. Eircom is the people who work for Eircom.. the inherent culture is from the employees, the current owners are not in place long enough to change that.

I disagree. The Joes and Rachels who handle the phone lines do not determine the customer experience; they work to clear and strong instructions that come from above. Their supervisors also work to instructions, and very little more power than Joe or Rachel, but should be skilled at recognising which complaints or problems can not be fobbed off. The instructions come from management level, and the managers are reflecting the wishes of the directors. That's why it is often so frustrating to deal with call centres when you have something like a contract problem: the instructions generally are biased towards a man-the-barricades approach, and against taking any action that might carry a cost to the company.

If the directors decided this week to set a target that 85% of complaints be resolved on the first phone call (and also gave the staff the necessary authority to do whatever was needed, including incurring some expenses) you would find the customer experience very different in a fairly short time, just as soon as people were fully briefed and arrangements for implementation were in place.

Welease

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I disagree. The Joes and Rachels who handle the phone lines do not determine the customer experience; they work to clear and strong instructions that come from above. Their supervisors also work to instructions, and very little more power than Joe or Rachel, but should be skilled at recognising which complaints or problems can not be fobbed off. The instructions come from management level, and the managers are reflecting the wishes of the directors. That's why it is often so frustrating to deal with call centres when you have something like a contract problem: the instructions generally are biased towards a man-the-barricades approach, and against taking any action that might carry a cost to the company.

And the management don't work for Eircom? That management/senior management have been working there most likely far longer than the front line staff...

They are Eircom. They have been there for the last few owners.. and they act and react the same as they always have.. they set the tone for the front line staff..

The Eircom experience has not changed significantly through the years...

Eircom has the same problem that many other companies in Ireland do... they are willing to accept piss poor service, so they offer piss poor service..

It's not management policy that I had to ring up 3 times are re-order broadband 3 times over the space of 4 months because my order "wasnt on the system"..

People in Ireland need to get over this crap of "we can do nothing" it's the management's fault..

Everyone in Eircom is the institution.. and for customer service.. it's difficult to find a worse example..

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If the directors decided this week to set a target that 85% of complaints be resolved on the first phone call (and also gave the staff the necessary authority to do whatever was needed, including incurring some expenses) you would find the customer experience very different in a fairly short time, just as soon as people were fully briefed and arrangements for implementation were in place.

Precisely.. If the staff at Eircom decided they wanted to do something about this piss poor service they could and would..
I run part of an organisation that offers services to our company, we score all engagement on a Poor/Good/Excellent level.. A single poor engagement for the year (in 500+ engagements) costs us our bonus money... Guess what our customer service is like..

P. Breathnach

Welease wrote: »

And the management don't work for Eircom? That management/senior management have been working there most likely far longer than the front line staff...

They are Eircom. They have been there for the last few owners.. and they act and react the same as they always have.. they set the tone for the front line staff..

The Eircom experience has not changed significantly through the years...

Eircom has the same problem that many other companies in Ireland do... they are willing to accept piss poor service, so they offer piss poor service..

It's not management policy that I had to ring up 3 times are re-order broadband 3 times over the space of 4 months because my order "wasnt on the system"..

People in Ireland need to get over this crap of "we can do nothing" it's the management's fault..

Everyone in Eircom is the institution.. and for customer service.. it's difficult to find a worse example..

Did you notice my mention of directors?

Welease

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Did you notice my mention of directors?

Do you believe that directors are concerned with individual contract level discussions?

All decisions on how a company acts to the customer are made by the staff and management. Strategic goals are set by directors... How they are implemented is a matter for management and staff..

Scarab80

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Did you notice my mention of directors?

The employees own 30% of the company and have directors on the board. If ever there was a company who is it's employees, Eircom is it.

Successive management teams and the ESOP (Employee Share Ownership Plan) have bled that company dry at the expense of our nations infrastructure.

Help them? The government should be prosecuting them.

P. Breathnach

I have no problem agreeing that Eircom has been something of a disaster area. My problem is with loading all the blame on the staff. Eircom has also been the victim of corporate adventurers, the sort who are more interested in making money from dealing in assets than from providing a service.

dromdrom

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I have no problem agreeing that Eircom has been something of a disaster area. My problem is with loading all the blame on the staff. Eircom has also been the victim of corporate adventurers, the sort who are more interested in making money from dealing in assets than from providing a service.

Its not a case of loading all the blame on the staff, it is just another example of union apologists not allowing any blame to be placed on the staff.

P. Breathnach

dromdrom wrote: »

Its not a case of loading all the blame on the staff, it is just another example of union apologists not allowing any blame to be placed on the staff.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65778411&postcount=18

dromdrom

P. Breathnach wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65778411&postcount=18

and?

SkepticOne

How many Eircom staff are still on "civil service" style contracts? If the company failed and a new one set up, these staff would have to renegotiate their contracts. Could make for interesting times.

Nermal

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You forgot something: it is also an instance of a badly-conceived privatisation model.

Agreed, well-executed privatisation is preferable to state ownership, but they are both far more preferable than making a balls of privatisation.

P. Breathnach

Nermal wrote: »

Agreed, well-executed privatisation is preferable to state ownership, but they are both far more preferable than making a balls of privatisation.

It's a relief that somebody agrees with me about something in this thread!

DidierMc

That's privatisation for you. Eircom and Aer Lingus- both utter disasters.

DidierMc

Nermal wrote: »

Agreed, well-executed privatisation is preferable to state ownership, but they are both far more preferable than making a balls of privatisation.

What's a well executed privatisation? Give me some examples

lmimmfn

boo hoo, eircom might colapse unless the government give them a load of our cash( while we're still paying the insane monthly rental price ), they can **** *** as far as im concerned.

They've invested next to no money in the network since it was privatised, robbed everyone when it was privatised and the investment companies that its been handed around since have just robbed everyone more.

My heart bleeds

thebman

The Communications Workers Union (CWU) has claimed there is a "real possibility" that the communications company could undergo a major restructuring, affecting the thousands of jobs based here.

Basically they aren't going under, nothing of the sort. Many of the jobs there are about to go and they want the taxpayer to pay their wages again even though they are a private company.

Silly ideas by silly people especially given the popularity of the company. A nightmare to do business with if your a business. Takes weeks to do things other telecom companies in other countries would have done in hours/days and at twice the price.

They shouldn't be bailed out, the opposite should happen. The company needs to be restructured badly as it is in a mess and the new management might try to sort things out and invest in the network so that the company is worth something again. Not in Ireland apparently, lets bail them out :P

recedite

Kensington wrote: »

You'd be better off just building your own optical fibre network from scratch than trying to acquire and upgrade Eircom's.

Good plan there; stimulus and productivity for the ecomomy in one.
But now that the pilot has sent the plane into a tailspin all thoughts of capital expenditure have gone out the window!

thebman

recedite wrote: »

Good plan there; stimulus and productivity for the ecomomy in one.
But now that the pilot has sent the plane into a tailspin all thoughts of capital expenditure have gone out the window!

Its easier to borrow for capital expenditure though and the country desperately needs a new network.

A better option might be to go for joint venture between a key network provider in the country and the government.

Or better yet, have the ESB Infrastructure build it, maintain it and the government can look after it fixing the problem of selling the eircom network and giving us a single entity for managing all power and broadband lines in the country.

recedite

thebman wrote: »

have the ESB Infrastructure build it, maintain it and the government can look after it fixing the problem of selling the eircom network and giving us a single entity for managing all power and broadband lines in the country.

Yes, there would be many efficiencies to be gained from that, and less roadworks due to repeat digging up of the same stretch of road by different agencies in succession.

Fat_Fingers

Let me get this right, The Communications Workers Union who represents ESOP who own 35% of Eircom (they got that 35% as a gift from taxpayer, they did not invest their own cash to buy it) wants taxpayer to step in and protect them from restructuring and job losses?

So they also get to keep their 35% ownership, yes?

I think there is no way EU would allow this as it will be seen as anti-market help from Government and distortion of free market.

It would be much better for Union and ESOP to use their 35% ownership to protect themselves. Negotiate, change work practices , help people who will be made redundant. Surely if you own 35% of business its in your interest to see it prosper and become successful.