Deer caliber

meathstevie

Folks, I might be getting into deer hunting shortly. Problem is I'm not entirely sure what to go for, I'm considering the following : .25-06, 6.5 swedish or a .308. I quite like the CZ 527 which unfortunatly isn't chambered in .25-06 as far as I know. As an outsider I've seen a superb secondhand fullstock Tikka in .270 for a very good price. Some advice would be welcome, thanks.

It wasn't me!

.25-06 is excellent, and very easy to shoot, but if you want a bit of versatility to tackle boar on the continent or anything, you'd be better off with the .308, which is also a lovely soft round to shoot, and practical for any range the rest of them are good for.

dwighet

You wont go wrong with a 270 thats for sure.....
If I was to buy another Deer stalking rifle it would be a 270...
I had a 6.5 x55 for a season...Nice rifle to shoot but I got sick of searching for the deer I shot with it.
Got myself a 7mm08 and am very happy with it....But like I said if I was to buy again it would be a 270...(The deer are dead before they hit the ground.)

It wasn't me!

Dwighet's right. The .270 is a fantastic round. Meant to say that. Beats the .25-06 for ammo availability too, while offering the same things. My .25 may well end up as a .270 in a few years.

clivej

It wasn't me! wrote: »

.25-06 is excellent, and very easy to shoot, but if you want a bit of versatility to tackle boar on the continent or anything, you'd be better off with the .308, which is also a lovely soft round to shoot, and practical for any range the rest of them are good for.

308 is not allowed in some countries.

It wasn't me!

clivej wrote: »

308 is not allowed in some countries.

True enough. I was thinking more of Germany and Poland that France, but you're right. Same for a .30-06 in those instances. .270 or the like is a better bet in those cases, or .300 Win Mag if you can handle it, but that's not necessarily perfect for Irish deer either. It'll kill everything, but it's expensive and punishing for the job.

Cass

Simliar thread here. Might give you some other opinons and views. If nothing else an informative read.

berettadt10

Have a .270 for the past two years, class round, you wont reget it!

Tackleberrywho

meathstevie wrote: »

Folks, I might be getting into deer hunting shortly. Problem is I'm not entirely sure what to go for, I'm considering the following : .25-06, 6.5 swedish or a .308. I quite like the CZ 527 which unfortunatly isn't chambered in .25-06 as far as I know. As an outsider I've seen a superb secondhand fullstock Tikka in .270 for a very good price. Some advice would be welcome, thanks.

The problem is rifles with the Cal. that you want.

I had a Sako 6.5x55 shot every deer dead with the correct ammo. My Cousin has a .243 every deer he shoots goes straight down. My friend has a .270 every deer goes straight down. I have a .308 now because I prefer the rifle not the cal. my .308 has a short barrel which I LIKE as I can crawl through ditches without much fuss. My choice.
The most important part is to use the correct ammo in the correct calibre at the correct distances.
Some rifles offer longer range.
Some rifles offer less Kick.
Some rifles are flatter shooting.
Some rifles are just sexier than others

If you are only shooting deer in Ireland any of these calibres in any rifle style you prefer is pretty much suited to meet your needs.

Some of my friends swear by 270, some by 6.5 some .308 and more .243.
Your shooting grounds and your pocket dictates the most.
If you are shooting 50-150yards all do the same, it's only if you want an extra 100 yards or so you have to get into technical stuff.

Cheapest ammo is .308 €14-€30 for Hornady
Flatest shooting is .243 .25/06 and .270 (although .308 110grain open to debate)

If your deer are in 50-150 flat shooting is not really important as they are all RELATIVELY flat at that range.

What type of deer do you want to shoot, in what kind of cover. Mountain, Fields, forestry.
You will have to be more specific to get more specific help.

What is your budget etc.
Rule 1 IMHO, spend as much on scope if not more than rifle;)

bunny shooter

I would never advise to but/not buy a calibre because of the cost of ammo, availibility, yes but never cost.

If the calibre can do the job you want, you can get a licence for it and you like it, then get it.

As for scope spend more on it than rifle

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

I would never advise to but/not buy a calibre because of the cost of ammo, availibility, yes but never cost.

If the calibre can do the job you want, you can get a licence for it and you like it, then get it.

As for scope spend more on it than rifle

Well I just wanted to point out to the user that ammo prices are vast and varied.
I knew a guy who once bought a 5.6 Magnum and could not afford ammo even when he could get it.

I personally purchase the best ammo money can buy for my rifles, others use Wolf etc.

But you are entitled to your Opinion Bunny, I asked the question as not everybody can afford very costly ammo so it may be a factor for some people, the OP may be out of work and want something that will do the job and is economical to run.

I just stated that some are cheaper than others.
I have full time student/unemployed friends who can not afford €60 for a box of ammo if they intend to do some range work with it or varminting in the case of a .243.

I would never assume a person could afford expense, I have asked him to submit his criteria and then we ALL can advise him to the best of our ability.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Well I just wanted to point out to the user that ammo prices are vast and varied.

Fair point but so is the cost of every item we have to buy. Give the O/P some credit.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I knew a guy who once bought a 5.6 Magnum and could not afford ammo even when he could get it.

not even one box :eek:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I personally purchase the best ammo money can buy for my rifles, others use Wolf etc.

As do I :P

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

But you are entitled to your Opinion Bunny,

Gosh ! that's really generous of you :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I asked the question as not everybody can afford very costly ammo so it may be a factor for some people, the OP may be out of work and want something that will do the job and is economical to run.

Well if he can afford a firearm & scope of whatever price range he can afford some ammo

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I just stated that some are cheaper than others.

Never ! So all other products are the same wherever you buy them Now your just stating the obvious :P

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I have full time student/unemployed friends who can not afford €60 for a box of ammo if they intend to do some range work with it or varminting in the case of a .243.

But they can afford to but rifles & scopes etc :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I would never assume a person could afford expense, I have asked him to submit his criteria and then we ALL can advise him to the best of our ability.

In the current climate very few of us can afford axpense. I shoot what I can afford to, it's a really simple solution :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Fair point but so is the cost of every item we have to buy. Give the O/P some credit.
I'm giving the OP credit, he mentioned CZ which are not the most expensive factory rifle, so I let him know that just as rifle prices differ so do ammo prices differ greatly and ammo availability.



not even one box :eek:



As do I :P



Gosh ! that's really generous of you :rolleyes: I'm a very generous person



Well if he can afford a firearm & scope of whatever price range he can afford some ammo
I agree, but just letting OP know about availability issues and pricing issues



Never ! So all other products are the same wherever you buy them Now your just stating the obvious :P
Obvious to some, never assume, I know nothing of OP so I did not assume it was obvious!


But they can afford to but rifles & scopes etc :rolleyes:
One of my good friends Dad bought him the Rifle as a present, he had to buy the ammo.(but that is neither here nor there)


In the current climate very few of us can afford axpense. I shoot what I can afford to, it's a really simple solution :rolleyes:

So why do you not want the OP been made aware that some things cost more to shoot than others? You seem to be disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing only?:P:P

I know you prefer the .220 swift to a .223 but you could not tell a new shooter to buy a .220 swift without warning them of ammo prices. It would not be honest or right.

meathstevie

The place I'm looking at getting permission is soft rolling hills in a tillage area with a bit of a sprinkling of forrestry. Plenty backstops etc and I don't expect too many shots over 200 yards.

As for a scope I'm sorted, the Zeiss Conquest ( 3x9 by 40mm 1 inch tube which in my opinion is plenty for hunting purposes ) that's on the hornet now will migrate and the old Weaver I got with the hornet will be reinstated.

As for a rifle I'm looking at either a CZ 527 ( preference as it appears to point like a good shotgun when I handle it )or Remington 700 ( very nice price import from North ) and there's of course the very nicely priced Tikka .270 I've seen.

One of the points that might swing it is cost of ammo, from asking around .308 appears least costly.

It wasn't me!

The Tikka in .270 would be a great gun. My personal preference of the lot, most likely, though the CZ would also be excellent.

Tackleberrywho

My pref would be the Remington or the Tikka; Not a CZ fan, just not to my taste.

Both the .270 and .308 are brilliant rounds.
The Zeiss scope will be able to meet your needs But If you could trade the Zeiss scope in against a better one I would. A lot of very good second hand scopes on the market at the moment.

Tillage and some wood sounds like my kind of shooting.
Feer well fed on Barley so meat tastes Good :pac:

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

So why do you not want the OP been made aware that some things cost more to shoot than others? You seem to be disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing only?:P:P

I know you prefer the .220 swift to a .223 but you could not tell a new shooter to buy a .220 swift without warning them of ammo prices. It would not be honest or right.

See now you're just contradicting yourself :rolleyes:

Obviously if I have previously suggested a 220 Swift, for fox shooting, never recommend it for target shooting, 'cause as you say it is a bit expensive, in preference to a 223 for fox shooting, surely it reinforces my belief in the comment/s you are now accusing me of disagreeing with you just for the sake of it and as the O/P asked about a calibre for deer stalking I stand by my comments especially as you've already stated on this thread that I'm entitled to my opinion, which is so kind of you and I also point out that the O/P made no mention of targets or varminting so you shouldn't assume as you pointed out to me on a previous thread in some sort of gibberish :P

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

See now you're just contradicting yourself :rolleyes:

Obviously if I have previously suggested a 220 Swift, for fox shooting, never recommend it for target shooting, 'cause as you say it is a bit expensive, in preference to a 223 for fox shooting, surely it reinforces my belief in the comment/s you are now accusing me of disagreeing with you just for the sake of it and as the O/P asked about a calibre for deer stalking I stand by my comments that you disagree with even though already on this thread you have said I'm entitled to my opinion and I also point out that the O/P made no mention of targets or varminting so you shouldn't assume as you pointed out to me on a previous thread in some sort of gibberish :P

I was trying to explain things in terminology you would understand Bunny:P
OP was concerned about price of ammo! And I was pointing that out.

Even if the OP never shot Targets most folk would want to familiarize them selves with a round before they brought it into a field, Zero at different ranges or just to see how it grouped.

I should not have mentioned varmint rounds MY BAD, I knew you did use a swift so I was trying to explain in relative terms.
And yes you are by all means entitled to your opinion, you always give it on almost all my posts! it's great to know you are my biggest fan:P

Maybe this issue can be put to bed now. OP has decided .308 seems to be the way forward for him due to it's cost availability and functionality.
He now just has to decide on a rifle and he has 3 good rifles in mind.

deerhunter1

meathstevie wrote: »

Folks, I might be getting into deer hunting shortly. Problem is I'm not entirely sure what to go for, I'm considering the following : .25-06, 6.5 swedish or a .308. I quite like the CZ 527 which unfortunatly isn't chambered in .25-06 as far as I know. As an outsider I've seen a superb secondhand fullstock Tikka in .270 for a very good price. Some advice would be welcome, thanks.

308 308 308

meathstevie

Thanks lads, .308 it'll be. You can't kill a deer too dead I suppose and the range and cost of ammo available seems to be quite comparable to .223 in regards to quality and price range. I know it's a big round but if you take boiler shots meat damage should be limited and there's plenty of soft tissue there to slow and stop practically any hunting round.

Again, thanks lads.

Now just hope the permission thing doesn't fall through...

Double Barrel

Steve,

It depends, ..... on what I'm stalking, distance, and terrain. Every calibre mentioned will do the job if you do your part. The .275 Rigby (7x57 & 7x57R) will drop them in their tracks as will the .243, the 25.06 and the 6.5, easy shooting, good to excellent bullet choices.
Study the anatomy of the animal and place the shot where it counts.
But, on a purely practical basis ......... the 308 is a good allrounder.

monarch

meathstevie wrote: »

The place I'm looking at getting permission is soft rolling hills in a tillage area with a bit of a sprinkling of forrestry. Plenty backstops etc and I don't expect too many shots over 200 yards.

As for a scope I'm sorted, the Zeiss Conquest ( 3x9 by 40mm 1 inch tube which in my opinion is plenty for hunting purposes ) that's on the hornet now will migrate and the old Weaver I got with the hornet will be reinstated.

As for a rifle I'm looking at either a CZ 527 ( preference as it appears to point like a good shotgun when I handle it )or Remington 700 ( very nice price import from North ) and there's of course the very nicely priced Tikka .270 I've seen.

One of the points that might swing it is cost of ammo, from asking around .308 appears least costly.

i would not worry about the price of ammo,just say you buy three boxs of good quality ammo say RWS @€;45 a box(20 in a box) if you shoot 10 deer in a season and fire the rest on zeroing practice and checking your gun. thats cheap shooting just €13.5 a deer.i think we forget how lucky we are in this country we have free shooting ,buy good ammo that performs well and does not do to much carcass damage ,the least we can do is respect what were hunting as again it is free

dwighet

monarch wrote: »

i would not worry about the price of ammo,just say you buy three boxs of good quality ammo say RWS @€;45 a box(20 in a box) if you shoot 10 deer in a season and fire the rest on zeroing practice and checking your gun. thats cheap shooting just €13.5 a deer.i think we forget how lucky we are in this country we have free shooting ,buy good ammo that performs well and does not do to much carcass damage ,the least we can do is respect what were hunting as again it is free

your dead right;)
well said

Double Barrel

But why be practical.



Merkel 1k single shot chambered in 7x57R, Swarovski Habicht 4x optics.

Hezz700

Double Barrel wrote: »

But why be practical.



Merkel 1k single shot chambered in 7x57R, Swarovski Habicht 4x optics.

and all for only around 6k.;)

Tackleberrywho

Hezz700 wrote: »

and all for only around 6k.;)

Blaser in J McB's 4.5k scope 1.5K 6k

I'd prefer a remmy and scope for 3k and spend the other 3k on beer

BELOWaverageIQ

Sako 75 in 30-06 with a nice scope (IOR, Swar, S&B etc) and trust me you will have it forever and go anywhere with it.

Tackleberrywho

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

Sako 75 in 30-06 with a nice scope (IOR, Swar, S&B etc) and trust me you will have it forever and go anywhere with it.

I thought that about a lot of things, But like my nemesis the magpie I like new shiny things!

Sako 75 is Old, 85 is new. I don't like 85 as I find them cheapy in hand.

A lot of changes there since baretta bought them and nokia out, or vise versa

.30-06 very heavy on a small fallow, especially if on flat land in the midlands lots of hunting is shared between hilly and very flat land

Hezz700

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Blaser in J McB's 4.5k scope 1.5K 6k

I'd prefer a remmy and scope for 3k and spend the other 3k on beer

3K on beer:cool:

I'd like to go on the sup with you:D

Tackleberrywho

Hezz700 wrote: »

3K on beer:cool:

I'd like to go on the sup with you:D

Any time, having some Honey Dew Organic beer as we speak!

monarch

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I thought that about a lot of things, But like my nemesis the magpie I like new shiny things!

Sako 75 is Old, 85 is new. I don't like 85 as I find them cheapy in hand.

A lot of changes there since baretta bought them and nokia out, or vise versa

.30-06 very heavy on a small fallow, especially if on flat land in the midlands lots of hunting is shared between hilly and very flat land

if a good quality bonded bullet is used and the shot is placed correctly you
wont have any problems.
people in england use large calibers on there smaller deer with great results.
a 100 grain .243 soft point bullet will often break up and cause serious damage to a SMALL FALLOW . plenty of hunters will tell you about a well placed shot but the bullet went back on impact and stomach in a mess.

why is a .30-06 very heavy especially on flat land dont get your point here is it better up hill or maybe down hill?

Double Barrel

Hezz

Stevie can afford it. :D
It will pay dividends in the long run.

Tackleberrywho

monarch wrote: »

if a good quality bonded bullet is used and the shot is placed correctly you
wont have any problems.
people in england use large calibers on there smaller deer with great results.
a 100 grain .243 soft point bullet will often break up and cause serious damage to a SMALL FALLOW . plenty of hunters will tell you about a well placed shot but the bullet went back on impact and stomach in a mess.

why is a .30-06 very heavy especially on flat land dont get your point here is it better up hill or maybe down hill?

Exit wound,
I would prefer a round to use all it's energy and not still be lethal if it did exit.
Just my opinion. I shoot head shots anyway so I do not need a 50cal.
.308 does the job.

Hezz700

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Any time, having some Honey Dew Organic beer as we speak!

sounds lovely.

I'm reduced to drinkin the home made stuff these days.:D

dwighet

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Exit wound,
I would prefer a round to use all it's energy and not still be lethal if it did exit.
Just my opinion. I shoot head shots anyway so I do not need a 50cal.
.308 does the job.

Head shots only......your good.The more I read your posts the better you get.
How many jaws have you blown off:eek:

monarch

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Exit wound,
I would prefer a round to use all it's energy and not still be lethal if it did exit.
Just my opinion. I shoot head shots anyway so I do not need a 50cal.
.308 does the job.

.30-06 is a 30cal same as your .308 both are 7.62mm.not a 50cal
if you eat your deer you should try a heart and lung shot, the animal will bleed out well and you will find the quality of the meat to be of a much higher quality than a head shot .most hunters prefer a bullet that exits so there will be a blood trail, so the animal can be tracked if needs be.
"backstop" thats what people look for before they pull the trigger,its the thing that stops that round which is still lethal when it exits.

Tackleberrywho

dwighet wrote: »

Head shots only......your good.The more I read your posts the better you get.
How many jaws have you blown off:eek:

None, I had a good teacher, but I won't name names.

Most seasoned hunters only shoot head/neck unless it is unsafe! then take the body shot.
Less mess than heart/lung shots which are very messy when butchering.

I only started posting in earnest a few months now, I've been shooting much longer. And i always try to improve, one can never know it all. I always ask before I do.

Sika98k

meathstevie wrote: »

Thanks lads, .308 it'll be.

Good choice out of the ones you had picked.I have used a 6.5x55 for the last,um,6 or 7 years.
Great choice of bullets weights from 100 to 160gr.It does,I reckon, shoot above its weight and I have taken fox,sika,fallow and boar with it.
Having gone to a driven boar hunt last winter in Hungary although the 6.5x55 was the most popular round,it did not stop any boar in its tracks.
Sure they piled up a short distance away. Here I will say I wasnt lucky enough to drop a boar only a handful of foxes:cool:.
Shooting boar from high seats the 6.5 has never left me searching in the dark [A bowel stirring experience:D]
Still I will do it again but bring a 308 ! It and the 30-06 are good universal calibres.

Tackleberrywho

monarch wrote: »

.30-06 is a 30cal same as your .308 both are 7.62mm.not a 50cal
if you eat your deer you should try a heart and lung shot, the animal will bleed out well and you will find the quality of the meat to be of a much higher quality than a head shot .most hunters prefer a bullet that exits so there will be a blood trail, so the animal can be tracked if needs be.
"backstop" thats what people look for before they pull the trigger,its the thing that stops that round which is still lethal when it exits.

Big diff between a .308 and a .30-06
If there is another deer behind the first one an exit wound can Mame and not kill the other animal.
A double tap has been successfully done by many but not my cup of tea.

Most hunters I know do not use dogs, shoot dead 1st shot second rarely if necessary. hence 5 shot magazine.
In fact I have never heard of dogs been used until I came on boards.

Some of yee guys must have to spend weeks planning a hunt, I just go out the back door and see whats there; but each to their own! Some even bring flasks of tea! I bring rifle ammo and knife.

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Big diff between a .308 and a .30-06

There really isn't, with bullets between 150 and 175gr or so. After that, the .30-06 gets significantly more useful, but the actual difference in those weights is negligible.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

There really isn't, with bullets between 150 and 175gr or so. After that, the .30-06 gets significantly more useful, but the actual difference in those weights is negligible.

Its not the weights its the amount of propellant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9.3X62-30-06-8X57-6.5X55-308.JPG

If you fired both you'd notice particularly in same weight rifle and same loads
200 ft/lbs in 150 grain

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Its not the weights its the amount of propellant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9.3X62-30-06-8X57-6.5X55-308.JPG

If you fired both you'd notice particularly in same weight rifle and same loads
200 ft/lbs in 150 grain

I've shot both, in similar weight rifles and setups, and yeah, the .30-06 is a pokier cartridge, but describing it as a whole other class, as if the .308 won't pass through an animal while the .30-06 is a different level altogether isn't really true. If I wanted to shoot 150-175gr bullets, the .308 is more efficient for the job. The .30-06 starts to really come into its own at about the 180gr mark, where the .308 starts to look a little too slow, though it's an excellent round in 165gr loadings, which would be my choice for deer in it.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I've shot both, in similar weight rifles and setups, and yeah, the .30-06 is a pokier cartridge, but describing it as a whole other class, as if the .308 won't pass through an animal while the .30-06 is a different level altogether isn't really true. If I wanted to shoot 150-175gr bullets, the .308 is more efficient for the job. The .30-06 starts to really come into its own at about the 180gr mark, where the .308 starts to look a little too slow, though it's an excellent round in 165gr loadings, which would be my choice for deer in it.

Well that is your view,

a low load .30-06 is similar to a heavy .308

So are lots of rounds. Thats why a lot of shooters prefer .243 or .270

.308 curves to much in 165 IMHO for hunting when lighter loads are available 110 for example

If one wanted a light .30-06 buy a .25-06 like your good self!:D

I killed cattle with a captive bolt pistol so I have seen what the minimum required was first hand to destroy brain. I said .308 is more than enough for Irish deer.
That was my point. We are not talking about anything else, thread is deer cal.

I know now where to look come september for loads of volunteers to help me drag deer! I can hang back too when all the boys want to gut him after his heart shot and blood all over the shop

It wasn't me!

On the other hand, if I wanted to shoot 110gr bullets, I wouldn't have a .30 calibre at all! For the record, my .25-06 may well end up re-barrelled in .30-06 down the line.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

On the other hand, if I wanted to shoot 110gr bullets, I wouldn't have a .30 calibre at all! For the record, my .25-06 may well end up re-barrelled in .30-06 down the line.

I wanted a .25-06
gun I wanted was chambered in .308 I compromised

Remington VTR .223 or .308 only chambers
As I said I had a 6.5! I did not like the rifle

Tackleberrywho

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I wanted a .25-06
gun I wanted was chambered in .308 I compromised

Remington VTR .223 or .308 only chambers
As I said I had a 6.5! I did not like the rifle

Also when I bought I did not know figgy was in business rebarrelling, All mine may be re-barreled! in same calibres!

It wasn't me!

Nothing compromising about a .308. If all I ever wanted to shoot was Irish deer and British deer and boar, I'd have a light, short-barrelled .308 and never look back, but what's life without holidays?

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Nothing compromising about a .308. If all I ever wanted to shoot was Irish deer and British deer and boar, I'd have a light, short-barrelled .308 and never look back, but what's life without holidays?

I have not had a holiday since 2006 too busy!

I have a 20 inch .308 best of both worlds!

jwshooter

to read some of the posts there was more than tac drinking last nite .

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

to read some of the posts there was more than tac drinking last nite .

Well it was a friday night!

Nico13

Double Barrel wrote: »

But why be practical.



Merkel 1k single shot chambered in 7x57R, Swarovski Habicht 4x optics.

hi DB, sweet gun u have:eek:, was wondering, are the 7x57 easy to find in ireland? What make and what price? TA