EMT drugs

HighlyCooL

just a question,
EMTs are alowed administer drugs, Asprin, Oxygen, Entonox, paracetamol, GNT, Glucagon, and Epi-pen if the pt is pre proscribed.

Asprin and paracetamol can be bought over the counter, as can O2. but if an EMT wanted to carry GTN and Glucagon in there kit how would they get them as there are PoM?

they are 2 drugs that are vital to a PTs well being, ie MI and a hypoglycemic emergency.

just what to know if any one has tried get them for there kit?

ivabiggon

not sure are you employed as an EMT or in a voluntary organisation?
if not you'll find it difficult to get the meds, i know glucagon is expensive and i can't imagine any organisation just handing out these kits to all your members.
these thing go out of date quickly and would incur a large financial out lay to the organisation.
but if a person is prescribed these drugs they may have them on their person anyway.
i wouldn't be rushing into trying to stock this stuff up just for the sake of having a bag of goddies that you might never use.
i work the ambulance in dublin and the amount of time i've administer glucagon is minimal, GTN is very regular and 9 time out of 10, clients with angina would be inclined to carry their own.
so a lay person your probably not going to see these incident very often.

my advice for what it worth, is to stock what you can buy over the counter, and leave the more specialist drugs to your employer or organisation to stock.
and check the expiry date regularly.
regard

Elessar

I don't want to be the wet blanket here but you do realise that you need to be acting on behalf of an organisation approved to implement the CPGs before you can administer medications legally in Ireland?

If you're a member of one of these organisations, you should be able to acquire the drugs you need from them. Otherwise I wouldn't carry them if I were you. You need to be acting on "behalf of" the CPG approved provider, and as such they would be provided to you when on duty. If you're not on duty, you might not be classed as acting on behalf of, and shouldn't be administering medications. Your provider can clarify that for you.

HighlyCooL

cool thanks for the replys, Elessar that gives me food for thought.

5500

I know there was discussion before regarding obtaining the drugs and if you carry them but for anyone who's an EMT in a vol does your unit supply them for you?

My own doesnt, the furtest extent of it is o2 & aspirin but yet there are packets of anti histamines, smelling salts ect in bags yet they are not even listed in cpg's!

Elessar

Yes in my vol every unit has a medication bag with different sections for CFR/EFR/EMT and Paramedic where available. They are all sealed with tags.

touge_drift

first off are you licenced and working on behalf of a cpg approved provider? you need to be before you start using the drugs. Any company/ vol approved will also have its own drugs policy to keep strict control over drug usage/administration. you can buy alot ovber the counter in certen places but i would strongly advise against this as if your using the drug from your own bag its not regulated, documented etc etc

i can only speak my my vol's(omac) point of view.

long story short.. dont carry any of them, just use your ambulances drug bag

emtrgnmb

Elessar wrote: »

I don't want to be the wet blanket here but you do realise that you need to be acting on behalf of an organisation approved to implement the CPGs before you can administer medications legally in Ireland?

If you're a member of one of these organisations, you should be able to acquire the drugs you need from them. Otherwise I wouldn't carry them if I were you. You need to be acting on "behalf of" the CPG approved provider, and as such they would be provided to you when on duty. If you're not on duty, you might not be classed as acting on behalf of, and shouldn't be administering medications. Your provider can clarify that for you.

I have encountered a number of EMTs (newly qualified) who seem to be confused about this, or simply unaware...

I don't think the point is stressed to EMT students.

MN_Medic

emtrgnmb wrote: »

I have encountered a number of EMTs (newly qualified) who seem to be confused about this, or simply unaware...

I don't think the point is stressed to EMT students.

All the information is available from Phecc and when they registered all the information would have been sent to them.

touge_drift

emtrgnmb wrote: »

I have encountered a number of EMTs (newly qualified) who seem to be confused about this, or simply unaware...

I don't think the point is stressed to EMT students.

just tell them all the friendly people in phecc or boards say that they arent emt's unless they have a licence, the cert doesnt mean anything unless you have your licence

coolmoose

and the point being made, which is more important is that your licence doesn't mean anything unless you're providing services for/on behalf of a CPG approved organisation...

and not to be pedantic...but they're medications, not drugs...

Elessar

It begs the question, how many EMTs who paid for the course with the private providers are members of a CPG approved organisation? Not many I would think.

touge_drift

Elessar wrote: »

It begs the question, how many EMTs who paid for the course with the private providers are members of a CPG approved organisation? Not many I would think.

i am lead to believe (by a friend on one of those courses) that there are taxi men and other such random members of the public doing the course and have absolutly no idea that they cant do the interventions learned on the course on the street, as they arent members of a cpg approved body.

actually as an efr you can probbally do more on the road side then an emt, because you have no licence to loose(i know that sounds bad but i cant think of the right words to use in the context)

emtrgnmb

touge_drift wrote: »

i am lead to believe (by a friend on one of those courses) that there are taxi men and other such random members of the public doing the course and have absolutly no idea that they cant do the interventions learned on the course on the street, as they arent members of a cpg approved body.

actually as an efr you can probbally do more on the road side then an emt, because you have no licence to loose(i know that sounds bad but i cant think of the right words to use in the context)

Yes this is what I have experienced on a number of occasions.

I wonder is the point being stressed on the private courses at all?

DubMedic

Why not call and ask?.

MN_Medic

Elessar wrote: »

It begs the question, how many EMTs who paid for the course with the private providers are members of a CPG approved organisation? Not many I would think.

Still doesn't take away from the fact that for a Practitioner to implement the CPG's they must be on good standing on the register with PHECC and be working for or on behalf of a CPG approved organisation.

Traumadoc

As a matter of interest, are there any rules about the administration of oxygen?

maglite

Traumadoc wrote: »

rules about the oxygen?

CPG wrote:

Absent/inadequate ventilation following an acute medical or traumatic
event.
SpO2 < 97%.
SpO2 < 92% for patients with acute exacerbation of COPD.

Thou i think there is still the mentality of stubbed toe = 15lpm non ReBreather present. Pre Hospital I can see in the next few years that it will become far less used. UK are now not giving o2 for heart attacks, less in most cases and titrating to an acceptable Spo2. I think once we see if they dont end up killing too many people we will follow.

civdef

What's the rationale behind giving less O2?

Traumadoc

O2 is a drug and has side effects.
Hypoxic drive is controversial
But high O2 conc promotes atelectasis.
Oxygen toxicicity controversial but possible cause of alveolar damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

http://www.6minutes.com.au/articles/z1/view.asp?id=512586

The supplemental oxygen in MI is also controversial

http://heart.bmj.com/content/95/3/198.full.pdf