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Reports that three dead in Greek bank fire

  • 05-05-2010 02:24PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭


    It appears the continuing teenage acting out in Greece by various far left and anarchist groups there has delivered up the inevitable at last.

    Hopefully the deaths will lead to a little bit of reflection and maturity on the part of all sides in Greece and everyone works to calm down the situation and to face reality like adults as opposed to children. None of the actors in Greece has covered themselves in glory.

    Greece has only two options - default and austerity, or bailout and austerity. You cant spend money you dont have. You cant borrow money from people who dont believe you will pay them back. Throwing molotovs at banks with people working in them wont change that. The effect of the entitlement culture inspired by socialism has deeply damaged Greece and they need to snap out of it.

    Hopefully our own contingent in the trade unions and various civil service fiefdoms will learn from the Greek experience.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Bodies were found in a building that had been burnt out, last I heard there were 3 buildings still on fire, so fingers crossed there's nothing more in there.

    Sad, sad state of affairs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 408 ✭✭blue_steel


    Sand wrote: »
    The effect of the entitlement culture inspired by socialism has deeply damaged Greece and they need to snap out of it.

    And there was me thinking that the right wing ND party had been in power from 2004 to 2009 in Greece. And that the economic meltdown of the last two years had started on Wall Street. There must be one hell of a lot of Socialists working for Goldman Sachs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    blue_steel wrote: »
    ... There must be one hell of a lot of Socialists working for Goldman Sachs.

    On the basis that socialists are generally held responsible for impoverishing people who were previously wealthy, that seems a fair comment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    blue_steel wrote: »
    And there was me thinking that the right wing ND party had been in power from 2004 to 2009 in Greece. And that the economic meltdown of the last two years had started on Wall Street. There must be one hell of a lot of Socialists working for Goldman Sachs.

    New Democracy would be left wing in my opinion when it comes to economics they threw pay increase after pay increase for public sector workers when they were in government from 2004 till 2009, they did nothing to reform the public sector.

    On today's murders that have taken place, the army should be called out onto the streets and any scumbags that are rioting should be shot on sight. I've no problem with peaceful demonstrations but scumbags destroying buildings should not be tolerated and should be dealt with extreme solutions including been shot dead.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Sand wrote: »
    It appears the continuing teenage acting out in Greece by various far left and anarchist groups

    Is that why our resident anarchist @alias141282 gone quiet lately?

    he kept going on over and over about anarcho-syndicalism (aka anarcho-communism)

    :rolleyes:

    142hr0w.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    blue_steel wrote: »
    There must be one hell of a lot of Socialists working for Goldman Sachs.

    funny you mention them

    it was Goldman Sachs who helped the Greek government commit fraud in order to enter the euro


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    On today's murders that have taken place, the army should be called out onto the streets and any scumbags that are rioting should be shot on sight. I've no problem with peaceful demonstrations but scumbags destroying buildings should not be tolerated and should be dealt with extreme solutions including been shot dead.

    I agree, when ordinary workers are murdered in their place of work then the rioters have to be stopped at all costs.

    Peaceful protests fine - rioting and endangering lives is a completely different matter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Also public sector strikes should be banned, any public sector workers that go on strike should be fired and deprived of the right to social welfare, the government should impose martial law throughout all major towns and cities and there should be an 8pm curfew and no protests of more than 10 people should be allowed to take place, the trade unions must be crushed in Greece.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    This post has been deleted.

    Well considering respect for people and their property are the pillars of libertarian thought, burning buildings and people would sort of go against the grain...

    now I think you deserve an apology from certain posters who tried hard to paint yourself as an anarchist in previous threads


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    ei.sdraob wrote:

    Yes, and who are now financial advisors to the Greek government? :D

    If I were Greek, i'd probably be out in the streets protesting too since the current government and those of the last 10 years no longer represent the people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Yes, and who are now financial advisors to the Greek government? :D

    If I were Greek, i'd probably be out in the streets protesting too since the current government and those of the last 10 years no longer represent the people.

    They can protest all they want but the debt is going nowhere and having confrontation junkies running amok isn't helping matters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Yes, and who are now financial advisors to the Greek government? :D

    If I were Greek, i'd probably be out in the streets protesting too since the current government and those of the last 10 years no longer represent the people.

    Well around 80% of Greek voters on average tend to vote for either New Democracy or the Socialists, mind you the commies have a couple of crooked politicians as well. Greek people need to take a hard look at themselves and reassess their tolerant attitudes towards corruption.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Yes, and who are now financial advisors to the Greek government? :D

    If I were Greek, i'd probably be out in the streets protesting too since the current government and those of the last 10 years no longer represent the people.

    Ok lets say a new government come into power

    and refuse IMF/EU money (remember money which was requested with a begging bowl in hand by current government, only last week)

    what hole will they pull 110 billion out of?

    in order to continue to run the country...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    Well, there shouldn't have been ANY bailout at all.

    Bail outs do not solve anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    ei.sdraob wrote:
    what hole will they pull 110 billion out of?


    they don't.
    it was fraudulently created there fore nothing is owed.

    Iceland didn't give into the oligarchs and kleptocrats and neither should the greeks, but there is obviously collusion between the likes of Goldman Sachs, the IMF and elements of the Greek government.

    of course, Greece would probably suffer in the short term by not paying, but the alternative is being a slave to the IMF.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob




    they don't.
    it was fraudulently created there fore nothing is owed.

    Iceland didn't give into the oligarchs and kleptocrats and neither should the greeks, but there is obviously collusion between the likes of Goldman Sachs, the IMF and elements of the Greek government.

    of course, Greece would probably suffer in the short term by not paying, but the alternative is being a slave to the IMF.

    so you propose they default?
    ok lets say they default

    what hole with they pull out of the 50 billion they need to pay public service and welfare in next 3 years

    their books (like ireland) are not balanced
    even if the existing debt is written of due to a default, that still leaves a system which is spending more than it takes on on day to day running of the state

    how do you propose they solve that problem when no one want to lend them a cent?

    they are bankrupt


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    Quote by Max Keiser.

    The only solution for Greece is to arrest the Goldman Sachs bankers immediately and all those involved in the fabrication of Greek economic data in 2000, when you became a member of the eurozone. The next step is to nationalize all banks like Sweden did in 1993. The International Monetary Fund is that last thing you need. You will lose your sovereignty. It exercises terrorism. You will be raped in such a way, that it will be the worst pain you have ever felt.

    If someone burns down your house in order to sell you charcoal, would you consider this logical? That is exactly what Goldman Sachs did to the Greek economy. They burned you down like arsonists and then they tell you not to worry they’ll give you charcoal. It’s outrageous. The IMF has said that it can provide Greece with help. The Wall Street investment hedge funds are attacking Greece’s bond market so that the Greek economy collapses. And they’re doing this for a simple reason; to force the Greek people to ask for help from the IMF. The IMF will say, we came because you asked for our help. Wall Street bankers work very closely with the IMF. It’s a financial mafia and the hedge funds are the assassins. Research conducted on Goldman Sachs in the USA and in Europe show how big a mafia it is. They are involved in illegal activity throughout the world.

    This makes sense to me.
    Also, are you guys always trying to support a libertarian society?


    donegalfella, how will the IMF help achieve this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Quote by Max Keiser.

    The only solution for Greece is to arrest the Goldman Sachs bankers immediately and all those involved in the fabrication of Greek economic data in 2000, when you became a member of the eurozone. The next step is to nationalize all banks like Sweden did in 1993. The International Monetary Fund is that last thing you need. You will lose your sovereignty. It exercises terrorism. You will be raped in such a way, that it will be the worst pain you have ever felt.

    If someone burns down your house in order to sell you charcoal, would you consider this logical? That is exactly what Goldman Sachs did to the Greek economy. They burned you down like arsonists and then they tell you not to worry they’ll give you charcoal. It’s outrageous. The IMF has said that it can provide Greece with help. The Wall Street investment hedge funds are attacking Greece’s bond market so that the Greek economy collapses. And they’re doing this for a simple reason; to force the Greek people to ask for help from the IMF. The IMF will say, we came because you asked for our help. Wall Street bankers work very closely with the IMF. It’s a financial mafia and the hedge funds are the assassins. Research conducted on Goldman Sachs in the USA and in Europe show how big a mafia it is. They are involved in illegal activity throughout the world.

    This makes sense to me.
    Also, are you guys always trying to support a libertarian society?


    donegalfella, how will the IMF help achieve this?


    please remind us who invited Goldman Sachs into Greece and why, and what they accomplished?

    for that matter remind us who asked the IMF/EU to step in to clean up the mess

    Its not as if the IMF agents burst into the country and started raping the people :rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    how do you propose they solve that problem when no one want to lend them a cent?

    they are bankrupt
    yes, give them absolutely nothing.You are rewarding corruption. you are rewarding FRAUD.
    please remind us who invited Goldman Sachs into Greece and why, and what they accomplished?

    for that matter remind us who asked the IMF/EU to step in to clean up the mess

    Its not as if the IMF agents burst into the country and started raping the people

    It wasn't the Greek people, that's for sure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    yes, give them absolutely nothing.

    You give them nothing and the state spending will still have to be brought in line, except alot faster and more painfully...

    rock and hard place


    It wasn't the Greek people, that's for sure.

    the Greek people didnt vote in their government(s) and stood by while all this was happening?

    this is exactly why more people need to get involved in politics, you put a blind eye on events and the people in power **** it up for you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    @northwest100
    I notice you had dodged ei.sdraobs very reasonable and pertinent question - even if you default and put Goldman Sachs up on some Stalinist showtrial before their messy execution to satisfy some need for ill defined veangence...what then?

    How do you propose that Greece fills the rather epic gap in its budget? Theres quite a lot of scope for pursuing rampant tax evasion in Greece, but will that be enough in your view?

    Austerity is inescapable - there can be the childish tantrum, which has resulted into a state of mind where people found it acceptable to firebomb a bank, disregarding the fate of the people inside, but it doesnt change the facts.


  • Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Watch the video
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8662508.stm

    and listen carefully to what Merkel says


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    Sand wrote:
    I notice you had dodged ei.sdraobs very reasonable and pertinent question - even if you default and put Goldman Sachs up on some Stalinist showtrial before their messy execution to satisfy some need for ill defined veangence...what then?

    Nationalize the banks as Max Keiser recommends and restructure the economy.

    Don't pay any of the debt.

    I don't support the PS unions, but I don't support the banks either.

    Look at America, do you think they will ever pay the money that they owe? :D of course not, they will never pay 1 cent.
    Austerity is inescapable - there can be the childish tantrum, which has resulted into a state of mind where people found it acceptable to firebomb a bank, disregarding the fate of the people inside, but it doesnt change the facts.

    i know it's needed so why are Greece looking for a handout? give them nothing, let them realise they can't continue spending money they don't have.

    stop rewarding banks for fraud...ffs let's wait and see what kind of bonuses Goldman Sachs get this year! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Also public sector strikes should be banned, any public sector workers that go on strike should be fired and deprived of the right to social welfare, the government should impose martial law throughout all major towns and cities and there should be an 8pm curfew and no protests of more than 10 people should be allowed to take place, the trade unions must be crushed in Greece.

    Ah, nothing like a bit of fascism to add spice to a bankruptcy!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard



    they don't.
    it was fraudulently created there fore nothing is owed.

    You getting your debating points from a Commies Guide to Capitalism now? How exactly was it fraudulently created? The Greek government borrowed money to fund their chaotic system. They gace commitments that said capital would be returned. I fail to see anything fraudulent there. Maybe if I could borrow your biases for a moment though, it might become clearer...

    Remind me never to give you a lend...

    Indeed, the only fraud committed was that perpetrated by successive Greek governments in covering up their debts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    Einhard wrote:
    You getting your debating points from a Commies Guide to Capitalism now

    :rolleyes:

    Someone on here recently said that if a business needs to borrow money in order to keep it running, it's not a viable business. ;)

    How exactly does borrowing more money solve a debt problem?
    Indeed, the only fraud committed was that perpetrated by successive Greek governments in covering up their debts.

    Yes, I agree! which is precisely why the country shouldn't be bailed out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Quote by Max Keiser.

    The only solution for Greece is to arrest the Goldman Sachs bankers immediately and all those involved in the fabrication of Greek economic data in 2000, when you became a member of the eurozone. The next step is to nationalize all banks like Sweden did in 1993. The International Monetary Fund is that last thing you need. You will lose your sovereignty. It exercises terrorism. You will be raped in such a way, that it will be the worst pain you have ever felt.

    If someone burns down your house in order to sell you charcoal, would you consider this logical? That is exactly what Goldman Sachs did to the Greek economy. They burned you down like arsonists and then they tell you not to worry they’ll give you charcoal. It’s outrageous. The IMF has said that it can provide Greece with help. The Wall Street investment hedge funds are attacking Greece’s bond market so that the Greek economy collapses. And they’re doing this for a simple reason; to force the Greek people to ask for help from the IMF. The IMF will say, we came because you asked for our help. Wall Street bankers work very closely with the IMF. It’s a financial mafia and the hedge funds are the assassins. Research conducted on Goldman Sachs in the USA and in Europe show how big a mafia it is. They are involved in illegal activity throughout the world.

    This makes sense to me.

    It only makes sense as **** material for far-left wing fantasists.

    Seriously, you default on your debt and nationalise all the banks. Then, ten years down the road, assuming everything goes as well as you predict, and your economy is tootling along at a fine old pace, you decide you need a new motorway, or airport, or industrial complex to provide jobs for some of the proles. The costs are high and you don't have the capital at hands, so you decide to borrow. Afterall, the money borrowed will be recouped many times over once the benefits of the investment come on stream. But hold on! say the potential lenders. Weren't you that fucker who screwed us out of all that money we lent you last time? Well, you sir can go fuck yourself, you're not getting a $ from us.

    And then they laugh hearthily as, without access to necessary capital, your economy stagnates further and your people suffer poverty and deprivation. All because you thought you'd stick it to the man and tell him where to go...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard





    It wasn't the Greek people, that's for sure.

    You do know what a representative democracy entails don't you?


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