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Lessons from Greece Part the nth...

  • 05-05-2010 02:11PM
    #1
    Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭


    I notice a lot of the Public Sector lads who were getting very loud around here and quietened up in recent days - perhaps because they're silently hoping the vote is rejected or perhaps they're looking at the madness that is Greece and their 'entitled' population.

    When you promised to bring the country to it's knees, did you mean Greek style?

    I really think that if this deal is rejected, or if any strikes are hinted at, that we should get out and support the government en mass in their cutbacks and reforms. We have a chance now to finally set Ireland on a sensible course that ensures sustainable growth and fiscal rectitude for the coming future, a move that will benefit everyone in this country for generations to come. Including the PS. We need to let the opposition parties know this too - they won't be getting the (hopefully) sensible majorities vote if they're planning an election campaign based on expensive promises.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Jesus. You want to connect the fire bombing of a bank in Athens and the resultant death of 3 people to the economic situation in Ireland.

    There hasn't been one incidence of violent protest in Ireland yet whilst the greeks have been out every second day.

    Is there anything you won't accuse the Public sector of?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭DidierMc


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I notice a lot of the Public Sector lads who were getting very loud around here and quietened up in recent days - perhaps because they're silently hoping the vote is rejected or perhaps they're looking at the madness that is Greece and their 'entitled' population.

    When you promised to bring the country to it's knees, did you mean Greek style?

    I really think that if this deal is rejected, or if any strikes are hinted at, that we should get out and support the government en mass in their cutbacks and reforms. We have a chance now to finally set Ireland on a sensible course that ensures sustainable growth and fiscal rectitude for the coming future, a move that will benefit everyone in this country for generations to come. Including the PS. We need to let the opposition parties know this too - they won't be getting the (hopefully) sensible majorities vote if they're planning an election campaign based on expensive promises.

    Yes i can just see the public getting out on the street and marching in support of Fianna Fáil, Cowen, NAMA and cutbacks to health and education.

    Sorry but you're on your own there son


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭thebaldsoprano


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    we should get out and support the government en mass

    Public spending does need to be cut back alright but that's pushing it... ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    we should get out and support the government en mass

    Your real name wouldn't be Cowen would it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,044 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Stupid idiots...
    Me and the GF booked our 2 weeks in the sun today. We had talked about Greece, one of the islands probably, last year and were still likely to go up until a week or so ago when we decided to give it a miss, not because we thought it would get so serious that they'd start firebombing innocent people to death, but because we feared a general strike could leave us stranded there.

    So the Greek protests (supported by a few loonies on this very forum) have led directly to the loss to the Greek economy of our couple of grand and God knows how many more people have cancelled their plans for a Greek holiday this year. I'm sure they are going to lose many millions from the summer season this year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭DidierMc


    murphaph wrote: »
    Stupid idiots...
    Me and the GF booked our 2 weeks in the sun today. We had talked about Greece, one of the islands probably, last year and were still likely to go up until a week or so ago when we decided to give it a miss, not because we thought it would get so serious that they'd start firebombing innocent people to death, but because we feared a general strike could leave us stranded there.

    So the Greek protests (supported by a few loonies on this very forum) have led directly to the loss to the Greek economy of our couple of grand and God knows how many more people have cancelled their plans for a Greek holiday this year. I'm sure they are going to lose many millions from the summer season this year.

    LOL!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Is this the sort of protest that has been called for on this very forum.
    To think of the amount of times that people have expressed their dissappointment that similar protests never materialised.


  • Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have never voted for FF and I have always spoken out when they have done wrong. But the last thing I want is a massive showdown from the PS with the general public giving the politicians of this country the view that they are indifferent. I'm sure there's an awful lot of Greek people who know that the country is fúcked and have a permanent rolleyes on their face when they see and hear what is going on around them - but the international markets don't see this side and the European governments who are providing the bailout package don't see this (even a lot of us Irish are wondering why we're bailing out these basket cases).

    And to link what's going on in Greece to a possibility for Ireland, perhaps not the riots but the striking and attitudes of entitlement in general, isn't exactly far flung.


    Oh and just to add to this, I must admit that Lenihan has gained my utmost respect. He's working his ass off to try and get this country back on track, and to see how ill he looked on the news last night - he was propping himself up on a bin - was extremely sad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    This post has been deleted.
    Anything at all? No exceptions?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    murphaph wrote: »
    Stupid idiots...
    Me and the GF booked our 2 weeks in the sun today. We had talked about Greece, one of the islands probably, last year and were still likely to go up until a week or so ago when we decided to give it a miss, not because we thought it would get so serious that they'd start firebombing innocent people to death, but because we feared a general strike could leave us stranded there.

    So the Greek protests (supported by a few loonies on this very forum) have led directly to the loss to the Greek economy of our couple of grand and God knows how many more people have cancelled their plans for a Greek holiday this year. I'm sure they are going to lose many millions from the summer season this year.
    Myself and the missus made the very same decision.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I really think that if this deal is rejected, or if any strikes are hinted at, that we should get out and support the government en mass in their cutbacks and reforms. We have a chance now to finally set Ireland on a sensible course that ensures sustainable growth and fiscal rectitude for the coming future, a move that will benefit everyone in this country for generations to come. Including the PS. We need to let the opposition parties know this too - they won't be getting the (hopefully) sensible majorities vote if they're planning an election campaign based on expensive promises.


    Get out and support who did you say??? This government :rolleyes:. All is forgiven then so long as they kick your enemy (The PS).

    Are you not even mildly embarrassed to be jumping in behind the very government who lead us to ruin?


  • Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Read my second post.

    To quote an excellent post from Murphaph:
    Do we have the guts to take our medicine (FF and the nasty bankers didn't cause this alone....the general populace lapped it up and couldn't get into debt quick enough to buy that (now obsolete) plasma TV) or are we going to be like the Greeks, rioting and making arses out of ourselves (we have already done that by repeatedly voting in FF and for paying 300k for a shoebox style, shoddily built apartment).

    full post here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65712412&postcount=4


    Like I said, I'm no FF fanboy, but I dread to think how a Labour/coalition with Labour government would handle the current situation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Read my second post.

    To quote an excellent post from Murphaph:



    full post here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65712412&postcount=4


    Like I said, I'm no FF fanboy, but I dread to think how a Labour/coalition with Labour government would handle the current situation.

    I heard they didn't read a report on Anglo, said the banks ddin't need capitalisation, have some crazy idea called NAMA and had a tent at the galway races populated with people who confused debt with wealth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    We have a chance now to finally set Ireland on a sensible course that ensures sustainable growth and fiscal rectitude for the coming future, a move that will benefit everyone in this country for generations to come.

    Typical strategy. Propose something that everyone can agree with and then put forward any subsequent nonsense as being in line with this, when in fact it is moving in the opposite direction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    I opened a thread about the 3 dead in Greece and the OP is about the Irish PS.

    Why am I not surprised :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,456 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I hope to god FF serve out their full term! or do I? lets see FG and Labor get in, take no action, the IMF / EU step in and right alot of the wrongs, that no Gov here ever will! I honestly dont know which Id prefer!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I hope to god FF serve out their full term! or do I? lets see FG and Labor get in, take no action, the IMF / EU step in and right alot of the wrongs, that no Gov here ever will! I honestly dont know which Id prefer!

    I'd prefer the EU/IMF came in and the gave the public finances a good kick up the arse as well as the trade unions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    This post has been deleted.
    Ok, but while there are unquestionably PS workers who deserve(d) to have their pay cut (and many who do not deserve their jobs at all), not every PS employee does. By using a single blunt instrument across the entire sector, the government has generated a lot of disillusionment.

    Take third-level institutions for example - on the one hand the government is espousing the virtues of our mythical knowledge-based economy, while on the other, technicians, researchers and lecturers are having their pay slashed. The point is, not every action that results in a reduction in the PS wage bill is necessarily a wise one.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Ok, but while there are unquestionably PS workers who deserve(d) to have their pay cut (and many who do not deserve their jobs at all), not every PS employee does. By using a single blunt instrument across the entire sector, the government has generated a lot of disillusionment.

    Take third-level institutions for example - on the one hand the government is espousing the virtues of our mythical knowledge-based economy, while on the other, technicians, researchers and lecturers are having their pay slashed. The point is, not every action that results in a reduction in the PS wage bill is necessarily a wise one.

    There is no other alternative if these public sector workers were working in a virtually banrupt private sector company then they would have had no other alternative but to accept pay cuts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Ok, but while there are unquestionably PS workers who deserve(d) to have their pay cut (and many who do not deserve their jobs at all), not every PS employee does. By using a single blunt instrument across the entire sector, the government has generated a lot of disillusionment.

    Take third-level institutions for example - on the one hand the government is espousing the virtues of our mythical knowledge-based economy, while on the other, technicians, researchers and lecturers are having their pay slashed. The point is, not every action that results in a reduction in the PS wage bill is necessarily a wise one.
    The issue is that there is a collective union stance: Cut one and we all strike.

    I think everyone involved in trying to make a reformed public sector wants this, but the unions and the governments past have given us a system where you can't touch one soul.

    Example: (Real story), PA to a Director in a state body keeps her position after the Director has left, and no new Director hired due to the freeze. What does she do all day? Well, whatever.

    Another example: A clinic for diabetes patients in Blanchardstown is shortly to shut down, because the nurses have left (there was three, the remaining nurse is moving on now.) The administration staff involved? None of them have left.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    There is no other alternative...
    Of course there is: treat each PS worker as an individual, rather than lumping them all together as a homogeneous population, and assess every worker's current pay/conditions individually. I know the unions would never agree, but it is an alternative nevertheless.

    EDIT: Yeah, what Nijmegen said.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Ok, but while there are unquestionably PS workers who deserve(d) to have their pay cut (and many who do not deserve their jobs at all), not every PS employee does. By using a single blunt instrument across the entire sector, the government has generated a lot of disillusionment.

    Take third-level institutions for example - on the one hand the government is espousing the virtues of our mythical knowledge-based economy, while on the other, technicians, researchers and lecturers are having their pay slashed. The point is, not every action that results in a reduction in the PS wage bill is necessarily a wise one.

    I agree totally that cuts shouldn't happen accross the board, but....

    As soon as the government move towards the box that holds the scalpel to surgically remove deadwood, the unions slap the box out of their hands and jump up and down in a toddler type hissy fit.

    The only impliment they have available is the blunt instrament.

    As long as the unions continue to hide behind the frontline essential workers to protect the inefficient workers, the government have no option but to treat the whole PS as one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    I think we're all in agreement, but are divided by the reality that is the unions barring any rational approach to the management of our public sector.


  • Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think any of the PS workers who post on these forums would be in favour of something like what donegalfella suggested. I must be mad of course because to me it seems 100% rational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I don't think any of the PS workers who post on these forums would be in favour of something like what donegalfella suggested. I must be mad of course because to me it seems 100% rational.

    We are talking the public sector here, Irish public sector workers these days are not exactly renowned for rational thinking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    This post has been deleted.

    The enemy(government) of my enemy (Unions) is my friend . . :D

    People refer us to Greece because we would of been a lot closer to their collapse had the government not made those cutbacks in the last year. For that and the fact that FF appear to be at least trying to balance the books they deserve SOME credit . .


    I should also remember the ten commandments on this topic:
    1. Thou shalt never ever give FF credit. This is tantamount to treason as it was all their fault. (I heard they drown puppies before their Ard fheis)
    2. Thou shalt blame everybody else for the countries woes
    3. Thou shalt not speak positively of the Irish Economy
    4. Thou shalt speak of IMF whenever there is bad news in the media on the EU or Irish economy
    5. Thou shalt say "those who got us into this mess, shouldn't be the ones trying to get us out of this mess" that pretty much wins any debate on the economy or FF or Bankers or Jedward.
    6. Thou shalt say "I didnt cause this recession" (as if the rest of Ireland did!) when somebody says we all have to pay for the country to get back on track or suggests that people need to wake up to the state of the country.
    7. Thou shalt covet thy neighbors possessions, if they have more then you, you are obviously underpaid or deserve more, or they deserve less, whichever suits your argument.
    8. Thou shalt never be demanding too much. . If you are used to 1 or 2 holidays a year or going out regularly, it is your entitlement to expect the state to subsidize this without actually looking at your budget. Refer to commandment 6 & 7
    9. Thou shalt only discuss statistics that back up thy argument. Never awknowledge or concede points that disprove your infallible beliefs.
    10. Thou shalt constantly be negative towards everything . . Anybody who speaks positive shalt be strook down with great vengeance and furious anger, those who would attempt to poison and destroy thy morbid view of Ireland. And they will know thy name is the Lord when thy lay thy angry replies upon them.


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  • Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just on the RTE news: Protesters shouting "We are not Ireland, we will not sacrifice ourselves for the rich". Wow... If only they knew that our PS workers are on multiples of their salaries. Someone on the dole here earns almost as much as their teachers!


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