[US/IRL] 6x14 - "The Candidate" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "THE CANDIDATE" -

Episode Title: "The Candidate"
Airdate: May 4th 2010

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Jack must decide whether or not to trust Locke after he is asked to follow through on a difficult task.

Next New Episode: 6x15 - May 11th 2010

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SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

A REMINDER ABOUT USE OF SPOILERS:

No discussion of future episode spoilers. That includes anything the writers may have revealed in interviews, podcasts, etc. Even behind spoiler tags they don't belong in this thread. Promos for next week shouldn't be posted in here either.

And out of respect for those following the show on RTE, this episode should NOT be discussed outside of this thread until it has aired on RTE.

selfbuildkk

What time is it kicking off tonight our time?

Sad Professor

8

No early showing this week either. Anyone staying up will have to wait until 2am.

Only 3 episodes left after tonight - 4 if you count the finale twice. *sniff* It's almost over forever...

I've stupid exams all this week so I'm going to try and avoid this forum until the weekend. I'll see how that goes... :pac:

sprinkles

9

Haha, good luck with that and the exams of course!

selfbuildkk

2am it is then, why change the habit at this final stage.Oh and good luck with the exams!

Ron DMC

9

45 more minutes, bleaugh, more episodes of the Wire while I wait I suppose.

leggo

8

TWIST!!!!

I love it!

Penn

8

Wow.....

Just.....

wow

waltersobchak

9

My god what an emotional episode.. A bit pissed, that out of the 4 characters they killed off one of them wasnt Kate:mad::mad:

leggo

8

Classic, old school-style episode. That would've made a finale, in itself, for previous seasons.

Sun and Jin's death was handled brilliantly. Best way it could have ended for those two. We needed a proper love tragedy in the midst of the sideways 'love lifts us up where we belong' mush.

Speaking of the sideways, very poignant stuff. We've seen them coming together for the past few episodes now...but this was all done very subtly. And you know when JACK starts to see stuff going on...****'s gonna happen.

Loved Jack in this episode. Maybe for the first time in the TV show. They've done an amazing job at bringing the character full circle.

And to think, we've still got next week's episode (no spoilers, but anyone who's read Lostpedia knows who it's centring around) PLUS another to set up the 2-hour finale. I wouldn't start counting out Series 6 yet. Look how many CLASSIC Lost episodes we've had so far: Ab Aterno, the Desmond-centric one, there's this and then I fully believe they're going to home run the last 3. If that's so...can anyone here name one series that had 6 full episodes that would probably make the Top 20 in the show's history?

THIS is why you never lose faith in Lost. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Gave it a 9.

waltersobchak

9

leggo wrote: »

Classic, old school-style episode. That would've made a finale, in itself, for previous seasons.

Sun and Jin's death was handled brilliantly. Best way it could have ended for those two. We needed a proper love tragedy in the midst of the sideways 'love lifts us up where we belong' mush.

Speaking of the sideways, very poignant stuff. We've seen them coming together for the past few episodes now...but this was all done very subtly. And you know when JACK starts to see stuff going on...****'s gonna happen.

Loved Jack in this episode. Maybe for the first time in the TV show. They've done an amazing job at bringing the character full circle.

And to think, we've still got next week's episode (no spoilers, but anyone who's read Lostpedia knows who it's centring around) PLUS another to set up the 2-hour finale. I wouldn't start counting out Series 6 yet. Look how many CLASSIC Lost episodes we've had so far: Ab Aterno, the Desmond-centric one, there's this and then I fully believe they're going to home run the last 3. If that's so...can anyone here name one series that had 6 full episodes that would probably make the Top 20 in the show's history?

THIS is why you never lose faith in Lost. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Gave it a 9.

Have to say this season Jack as a character has been simply outstanding..

Penn

8

waltersobchak wrote: »

My god what an emotional episode.. A bit pissed, that out of the 4 characters they killed off one of them wasnt Kate:mad::mad:

Yeah, missed a golden chance considering SHE ISN'T EVEN ON THE FRICKIN LIST!

Didn't think Jin and Sun's deaths would be as hard hitting as that, considering I never really liked Sun (loved Jin though) but it was well done.

And of course, special mention must go to the man... the myth.... the legend that is Frank Lapidus . Bye Frank, you will be missed. Not a bad bone in that mans body. Didn't deserve all the island threw at him (or rather, at whoever he was standing beside holding a gun, cos thats pretty much all he did)

Best moment though was when Hurley started crying. That really made the deaths hit home, and was incredibly well acted by Jorge, even though it was just a few seconds of screen time

Great episode though. 9/10 (because they didn't kill Kate and they wheeled out Cooper, a great character, as a vegetable)

me-skywalker

9

First 10 Ive ever given. Woah!!

Drama, tension, emotion, suspense, action, unpredictability, deaths, tears. Lost at its peak.

Jack - "Why are you telling me?" Sayid - "Because your the one!"

Sayid, Sun, Jin, Lapidus all in one fell swoop... NIICE!!

One thing Im still wondering is the lack of Jacob is he just resigned to loosing the game and hoping that maybe they can stop Flocke. Lack of Ben and Richard is a problem in the greater scheme of things. They should just have killed Ben off but I still think he'll be manipulated by Flocke again.

Sun and Jin = Selfish b*stards!! They have a kid off island and they go and do that!! and they didnt even say to Jack to look after her! tut tut!

waltersobchak

9

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Yeah, missed a golden chance considering SHE ISN'T EVEN ON THE FRICKIN LIST!

Didn't think Jin and Sun's deaths would be as hard hitting as that, considering I never really liked Sun (loved Jin though) but it was well done.

And of course, special mention must go to the man... the myth.... the legend that is Frank Lapidus . Bye Frank, you will be missed. Not a bad bone in that mans body. Didn't deserve all the island threw at him (or rather, at whoever he was standing beside holding a gun, cos thats pretty much all he did)

Best moment though was when Hurley started crying. That really made the deaths hit home, and was incredibly well acted by Jorge, even though it was just a few seconds of screen time

Great episode though. 9/10 (because they didn't kill Kate and they wheeled out Cooper, a great character, as a vegetable)

Im glad they humanised Sayid a bit in the episode, so we could actually empathise with his death a little bit anyways.. Im also really glad they finally revealed Flockes intent, the power struggle between him and Widmore and who was really the one trying to kill/protect the lostee's was getting a wee bit frustrating..

me-skywalker

9

Actually maybe Richard, Ben and Miles rigged the plane with the explosives not Widmore since that was Ricahrds plan all along!! Maybe not Miles but ild say Richard and Ben anyway... We didn't see them in this episode for a reason, yes maybe too much going on but also simultanously they could have been doing there thang.

Although would they make it to the barracks and back to the island in time... hmm dunno..

me-skywalker

9

So water is Flocke's kyrptonite. He's also impervious to bullets. He can fly. He has a hot, if slightly eccentric chick on his side. His motivations are to protect his 'world'. He has a mysterious background. He has a direct opposite. Has father issues. MY GOD!! He's Superman!!!

nkay1985

8

leggo wrote: »

Loved Jack in this episode. Maybe for the first time in the TV show. They've done an amazing job at bringing the character full circle.

Definite +1 to this. There's been the odd time where I think "he's not that bad". Mostly I think Jack is annoying and that Matthew Fox just can't act but tonight's episode has turned me around a bit. It's hard to make up for five seasons but tonight made me realsie that he's really at his best when dealing with Locke (either one!).

Really enjoyed the episode and gave it a 9. Sad to see Sayid, Jin, Sun and Lapidus (I assume) go. That'd be three characters that I really liked and Sun who I never minded either. And poor Jin and Sun's kid having to grow up without a Mam or Dad now - quite upsetting. So here's hoping the sideways tying things up in a way that'd make those two happy or something.

What do we all think of Jack's idea that nothing would have hapened if they left the bomb alone? I personally think it would have blown up anyway; it would have just taken longer.

sprinkles

9

Great episode! Really enjoyed it. Well the sides are finally set and it's looking like it's going to be a great finale!

Not so sure that it was Ben, Richard and Miles that set the explosives in the plane, for one, they were using sticks of dynamite and not C4 like the ones found on the plane.

Jin and Sun's death scene was excellently done. Actually sad to see them go, but then glad at the same time

Roll on next week!

abelard

8

Wow, more drama in one episode than I can remember in a long time.

I always thought Jin and Sun would be the happy ending couple of the series. They lost and found each other so many times I figured it would have to end up ok. Their last scene was pretty special though alright. I liked Sun a lot more than most, so I was really sad to see her end.

Whilst Lapidus' ending was left a little open, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say he's gone too. And his last line summed up most of his time in the island - borne with a fatalistic resignation - awh hell!

And Sayid. Jack - "there is no Sayid!" Heh. At least he got to redeem himself.

Kate's recovery looked almost remarkable back on the beach. I wonder why they bothered have her shot if she was just gonna survive. She's going to be a burden on the others surely for the next few episodes.

I'm glad too they've ended the ambiguity over Smoke Monster's motives.

The only thing that annoyed me about this episode - does it seem like Widmore's men left the power generators for the sonic fence outside the fence's perimeter? WHy else was Sayid able to get to it and disable it?

tok9

8

Flocke: "Are you sure you won't reconsider, Jack?"

Jack: "Yea, I'm sure."

Flocke: "Whoever told you that you needed to stay, had no idea what they were talking about."

Jack: "John Locke told me I needed to stay."

Go on Jack...

Great episode 9/10. Poor Sun & Jin, after all that time searching for each other and bam after 1 episode together there gone.

Great to see Sayid redeemed in some sense and show he's back to normal. All the deaths were really emotional and Hurley crying really brought it home.

Anyone hoping Lapidus is still alive? He's a legend, i'll be gutted if he's gone too

Penn

8

tok9 wrote: »

Anyone hoping Lapidus is still alive? He's a legend, i'll be gutted if he's gone too

I'm pretty sure he's gone to that great big Burt Reynolds movie in the sky

Can anyone tell me what Sayid said to Jack about Desmond? I thought I heard him say that Desmond was in the well and Jack had to help him, but I couldn't really hear it properly

Daysha

That final Sun/Jin scene was up there with one of the best scenes in the shows history. I'll admit I got a little bleary-eyed watching that. What a perfect way for those two to exit the show But overall what an intense episode that was. Unbelievably good.

As a side point, anyone else think we might still see more of Lapidus? He's done sweet feck all since he came back on the Ajira flight, and something tells me he could still yet have a part to play. If the writers wanted to absolutely kill him off for good they could have, but they really did leave it up for interpretation.

tok9

8

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what Sayid said to Jack about Desmond? I thought I heard him say that Desmond was in the well and Jack had to help him, but I couldn't really hear it properly

Ya Sayid told him where Desmond was and

Jack: "Why are you telling me this?"

Sayid: "Because it's going to be you Jack"

Jack is the candidate?

leggo

8

nkay1985 wrote: »

What do we all think of Jack's idea that nothing would have hapened if they left the bomb alone? I personally think it would have blown up anyway; it would have just taken longer.

I think he was dead right. His explanation made perfect sense. If Richard couldn't explode himself with dynamite, Locke couldn't explode the Candidates with C4. Sawyer's pig-headedness (which I loved. A great extension of his issues with Jack built in the series opener) changed that. Just remembering that scene now is giving me goosebumps now. Wow...

I wouldn't blame Matthew Fox on Jack being annoying at times. Looking back, now, I think the writers wanted it that way. From day one, he was the god-given hero but had yet to really earn that right. That's why I think he annoyed so many...simply because he was forced down our throats. And the writing acknowledged this since day one: he NEVER wanted to be 'the one'. NOW he's become 'enlightened', he's suffered and we can all accept him. That's why I feel they've done such a masterful job writing for him.

What about Locke rigging the plane with explosives himself? It DID build the trust required for the Losties to go on the submarine and ditch him...so it was a perfect con if he did. Plus Widmore did seem willing to protect the candidates...so why would he want to blow them up when he could have easily done away with them when they first arrived?

I really want to watch that again.

tony1kenobi

Daysha wrote: »

As a side point, anyone else think we might still see more of Lapidus? He's done sweet feck all since he came back on the Ajira flight, and something tells me he could still yet have a part to play.

I hope so.I want them to attempt to disarm the plane so the following exchange takes place:

Lapidus "Ok this plane will fly.Where are Sun and Jin?"

Hurley "They're dead dude"

Lapidus "Well....I guess two Kwons don't make a flight".

Aldebaran

9

tok9 wrote: »

Flocke: "Are you sure you won't reconsider, Jack?"

Jack: "Yea, I'm sure."

Flocke: "Whoever told you that you needed to stay, had no idea what they were talking about."

Jack: "John Locke told me I needed to stay."

That was without doubt my favourite moment of the season.

Take that Flocke!

JohnK

sprinkles wrote: »

Not so sure that it was Ben, Richard and Miles that set the explosives in the plane, for one, they were using sticks of dynamite and not C4 like the ones found on the plane.

Wasnt all the dynamite blown up by Hurley a few episodes back? Given how determined Richard was to blow up the plane I dont think he'd have just sat around doing nothing to further that goal.

Sea Sharp

9

Great episode, it was the equivalent of two season finales in one.
Now I'm really looking forward to next weeks episode (having read some slight spoilers .)

Prufrock

9

Wow.

End game time.

Handsome Bob

8

Great episode, Jack was awesome. His exchanges with Flocke and Sawyer were fantastic. It was really good, it did a great job in building Flocke up as a total prick which will only serve the last few episodes well.

Can't say the "emotional" scenes hit me too hard. Dessie is still the king of making my manliness crumble. :pac:

tony1kenobi wrote: »

I hope so.I want them to attempt to disarm the plane so the following exchange takes place:

Lapidus "Ok this plane will fly.Where are Sun and Jin?"

Hurley "They're dead dude"

Lapidus "Well....I guess two Kwons don't make a flight".

Lapidus ain't the red dude from CSI.

Dubs

9

JohnK wrote: »

Wasnt all the dynamite blown up by Hurley a few episodes back? Given how determined Richard was to blow up the plane I dont think he'd have just sat around doing nothing to further that goal.

Richard asked ben just before the 3 parted ways whether there was any c4 left at the barracks, so it could very well have been them 3 that rigged the plane

Penn

8

Dubs wrote: »

Richard asked ben just before the 3 parted ways whether there was any c4 left at the barracks, so it could very well have been them 3 that rigged the plane

I'm pretty sure Richard asked if there were any grenades at the barracks, not C4. Besides, why would Richard have set C4 to blow the plane once it was started, he could have killed all the candidates that way, which is something I think Richard knows he shouldn't do, If he had set the C4, he would have set it to blow almost immediatly

Danakin

8

As others have said as well, I've always believed that Matthew Fox should not have shouldered all of the blame for Jack's irritating aspects and general blandness when he has been written poorly at many times throughout the show. The most unfortunate thing about this is that Jack plays a key role at so many different points in the series that the poor way in which he has been written stands out even more. He was however excellent in this episode, island and flash-sideways.

In general I thought this was an excellent episode both in itself and the way it is bringing the series towards its climax. Sun and Jin's deaths were handled well as was Sayid's which I thought would have been far more difficult to sympathise with.

I have to say that the encounters between Jack and Locke have been my favourite parts of Lost and I loved that despite all their differences Jack showed a touching sense of loyalty when he said that "John Locke told me to stay"-the "And you sir are no John Locke" was the unspoken line there for me.

Star Lord

8

Wow, bit of an emotional rollercoaster of an episode... despair at Jack helping FLocke, elation when he knocked him into the water, worry when I realized FLocke gave Jack the wrong backpack (spotted this when he handed him the backpack!) worry when Jack ended up in the sub anyway, delight when Jack got his 'he can't kill us, he wants us to kill one another' epiphany, frustration when Sawyer pulled the wire anyway, joy/sorrow at Sayid showing he was back to himself again and then blowing himself up, laughter/sadness at Lapidus' "Aww hell" and getting hit by the door, real sorrow with the death of Jin and Sun (Particularly Jin) and Hurleys tears for them, and exhilaration at FLocke going to "finish what (he) started" and for next week!

SimpleLogic

9

I liked the deadwood being gotten rid of before the final episodes, the characters are likable but not important at this stage. If kate survives that bullet wound, I would have to believe she has a purpose on the island. She seemed to be healed very quickly, by the island?


The explosion in the submarine annoyed me a bit, for a few reasons. When the bomb went off, it seemed to do **** all to anyone. There was no shrapnel or flames even though Sayid only got a few meters away. Also I know Sayid was in a hurry but why does he leave the flippin doors behind him open.

Anyone else think Bernard was acting a little strange, almost like he new more than he was letting on. I think he says something like "hope you find what your looking for" at the end. Maybe it was just bad acting but he seemed weird.

Any ideas on the music box given to Claire by Christian Shephard? I really hope MIB was lieing about being Christian Shephard.


From the episode "This place is death" season 5 episode 5. Was Rousseau's box, that Sayid fixed. Probably just another coincidence but maybe significant....

seadnamac

6

Not sure about all the love for this episode myself. Sure, as a stand alone 50 minutes of television it was entertaining enough but it didn't leave me feeling anymore confident that everything is going to come together in a satisfactory way.

The flash sideways are still boring me to tears, in this one Bernard and Cooper turn up. Wow, great. I just don't care about the characters here, there not the ones I've invested five seasons in previously.

Widmore has a list, another bloody list...Everyones getting ready for one big final battle scene, after five seasons of mysterious that got me hooked, that's the last thing I wanted it to come down to. Why is Sayid all of a sudden lucid again? To suit the storyline? Why did they spend so much time focusing on getting to the plane and then when they get the characters there, just pretty much go 'Actually forget about the plane it's not important, let's go to the sub'?

Sun and Jin dying, meh, I stopped caring about them a long time ago. Jack staring out to the sea looking constipated, yea that really tugged on my heart strings....Less character sh*te and more mythology please.

Bah.

jimbling

Excellent episode. Well written and very well acted. Jack was brilliant.
No big reveals or answers handed on a silver platter (which allowed it to just be a good solid 40 minutes of television).
Some great lines, specifically the Jack/Locke interaction. There is no sayid was also another great one.

All in all, fantastic stuff. 9/10. (saving my 10 for next week )

me-skywalker wrote: »

Actually maybe Richard, Ben and Miles rigged the plane with the explosives not Widmore since that was Ricahrds plan all along!! Maybe not Miles but ild say Richard and Ben anyway... We didn't see them in this episode for a reason, yes maybe too much going on but also simultanously they could have been doing there thang.

Although would they make it to the barracks and back to the island in time... hmm dunno..

I'd say not. Think someone else mentioned it, but why would they be trying to kill the losties? They were just out to destroy the plane.

me-skywalker wrote: »

So water is Flocke's kyrptonite.

This I didn't get either. WTF was sawyer getting at when he said "Get him in the water Jack, I'll do the rest"? Because he obviously didn't do anything. Or did he just mean push him in and ill run for the sub?

tok9 wrote: »

Ya Sayid told him where Desmond was and

Jack: "Why are you telling me this?"

Sayid: "Because it's going to be you Jack"

Jack is the candidate?

Ya, would think so. It's possible that Sayid came to the realisation that Jack was the one because of his belief in the bomb not killing them if they didn't mess with it.
It could also be because Desmond told him something we haven't seen.

seadnamac wrote: »

The flash sideways are still boring me to tears, in this one Bernard and Cooper turn up. Wow, great. I just don't care about the characters here, there not the ones I've invested five seasons in previously.

Ya, because that's all the Flash Sideways part of the story was about. Bernard and Cooper showing up. You need to actually watch the show sometime... The connections of the characters is only a part of the FST story.

seadnamac wrote: »

Widmore has a list, another bloody list...

It's not another bloody list, it's the same bloody list. That was one sentance in the show, it's only purpose was to tell us that Widmore knows about the candidates. He knows who's important and who's not. He even had the knowledge that Kate had been scratched off the list.

seadnamac wrote: »

Everyones getting ready for one big final battle scene, after five seasons of mysterious that got me hooked, that's the last thing I wanted it to come down to.

You've been watching Lost for 6 years and you didn't think it was going to come down to a final big battle? Man seriously, they've been talking about it for years on the show.

seadnamac wrote: »

Why is Sayid all of a sudden lucid again? To suit the storyline?

I would be 99.9% sure it has everything to do with his little chat with Jacob like Desmond and was not just a spur of the moment change of heart.

seadnamac wrote: »

Why did they spend so much time focusing on getting to the plane and then when they get the characters there, just pretty much go 'Actually forget about the plane it's not important, let's go to the sub'?

Well obviously flocke was going for the Sub all the time. If not, why wouldn't have just left the explosives and got the losties on the plane then and there.

"Right guys, everythings great...come on in. Right, lapidus, you start the engine while I go outside for a smoke".... end of losties.
I'm not exactly sure why Flocke kept saying plane and not just go straight for the sub, but im sure he had his reasons.

Why do people insist on knowing the reason for every little thing? After 6 years you'd think you'd be used to having to make assumptions about some stuff.

seadnamac wrote: »

Sun and Jin dying, meh, I stopped caring about them a long time ago. Jack staring out to the sea looking constipated, yea that really tugged on my heart strings....Less character sh*te and more mythology please.

Bah.

I'm not a big Jin/Sun fan either, but it was still pretty good tv. Lost has always been about the characters. Don't get me wrong, I love the mythology of lost (and I'm sure it's coming) as well, but the characters have always been the main factor to the writers.
If you dont care about any of the characters then the writers have already failed you and you should just stop watching the show. Read what happens in lostpedia or something when its over.

joe123

7

Good episode but I think some people just got a little too excited about this one!

Have to say I went from hating Jack in previous seasons to really liking him. The episode when Kate and Sawyer finally get killed off (if it happens) will be a happy day. Sawyer is a terrible actor and cheesey to boot and Kate is just annoying.

Good episode but still handing out 10s is pretty extreme! Really hope it doesnt come down to one massive gun fight sort of thing at the end.

I just know that there will be loads unanswered at the end.

Patricide

7

Good episode, although sayid's move felt very out of character to me. Even after the talk with desmond. Apart from that though looks like season 6 is finally starting to shape up. The loss of the kwons was really sad, Id always banked on them surviving till the end .

I just hope lapidus doesn't die, hes some legend.

titan18

8

Really good episode.A few annoying things in it though,and the reason I gave it a 9, was when Hurley was looking for a first aid kit for Kate,you could see one right behind Lapidus when Jack was talking to him.Also,when Sawyer was going to the sub and they expect it to be heavily guarded,why he bring down the kinda useless people.Surely bringing Kate or Jack would have been a better option than Sun or Hurley, if there was going to be a fight.

Still a very good episode though.Scene with Sun and Jin was great imo

jimbling

Patricide wrote: »

Good episode, although sayid's move felt very out of character to me. Even after the talk with desmond.

Strange, I felt it was exactly in character. He had obviously been convinced by desmond. We know that because he didn't kill him (which I think everyone agreed was the case). And also, he told MiB that he did.

Just to say how much I thought it was in character, I actually knew what was going to happen. The second the timer started running down I thought "Sayid's going to sacrifice himself..... it's redemption time"

jimbling

titan18 wrote: »

Really good episode.A few annoying things in it though,and the reason I gave it a 9, was when Hurley was looking for a first aid kit for Kate,you could see one right behind Lapidus when Jack was talking to him.Also,when Sawyer was going to the sub and they expect it to be heavily guarded,why he bring down the kinda useless people.Surely bringing Kate or Jack would have been a better option than Sun or Hurley, if there was going to be a fight.

Still a very good episode though.Scene with Sun and Jin was great imo

lol, that is a good point and I was thinking about it at the time. I mean wtf was hurley going to do?
In fairness, he did have other plans for Jack, who was going to manhandle Flocke for him. But Kate definitely would have been first on the list.

jimbling

jimbling wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure why Flocke kept saying plane and not just go straight for the sub, but im sure he had his reasons.

Just thinking about this and it's pretty obvious really. He knew some people would try and stop him. e.g. Richard/Ben went to go blow up the plane, not the sub.

seadnamac

6

jimbling wrote: »

Ya, because that's all the Flash Sideways part of the story was about. Bernard and Cooper showing up. You need to actually watch the show sometime... The connections of the characters is only a part of the FST story.


It's not another bloody list, it's the same bloody list. That was one sentance in the show, it's only purpose was to tell us that Widmore knows about the candidates. He knows who's important and who's not. He even had the knowledge that Kate had been scratched off the list.




You've been watching Lost for 6 years and you didn't think it was going to come down to a final big battle? Man seriously, they've been talking about it for years on the show.




I would be 99.9% sure it has everything to do with his little chat with Jacob like Desmond and was not just a spur of the moment change of heart.



Well obviously flocke was going for the Sub all the time. If not, why wouldn't have just left the explosives and got the losties on the plane then and there.

"Right guys, everythings great...come on in. Right, lapidus, you start the engine while I go outside for a smoke".... end of losties.
I'm not exactly sure why Flocke kept saying plane and not just go straight for the sub, but im sure he had his reasons.

Why do people insist on knowing the reason for every little thing? After 6 years you'd think you'd be used to having to make assumptions about some stuff.




I'm not a big Jin/Sun fan either, but it was still pretty good tv. Lost has always been about the characters. Don't get me wrong, I love the mythology of lost (and I'm sure it's coming) as well, but the characters have always been the main factor to the writers.
If you dont care about any of the characters then the writers have already failed you and you should just stop watching the show. Read what happens in lostpedia or something when its over.

I know that's not what all the Flash sideways was about but I just don't care about the characters in that timeline. That Locke and that Jack are not the ones I've been watching for last five seasons. I wish I did care but I don't, but hey that's just me.

So everytime a list is mentioned (by Jacob, Dogen, Linus, Widmore etc) is it always the same list? Not being smart, genuine question. I'd love if it was, once less thing to be frustrated about.

I don't know, it seems a bit odd to turn Sayid "dark" for a few episodes and then just turn him back again. What was the point? To show that Desmond is capable of reversing Fake Lockes powers or whatever? Hmmm...

You're sure he had his reasons (airplane), I would prefer to not have to make assumptions on something they've spent a lot of this season focusing on. I mean after all that, they spent 60 seconds there and that was it. To me, that was a good example of one of my main gripes with this show, building something up to make it seem important and then just playing it off as if it wasn't. But again, that's just me.

In fairness, I've enjoyed and bought into the show for five seasons, it's only this season that I've become somewhat (understatement!) disallusioned with it, so I'm hardly going to stop watching now. I'm here until the end, whether or not it ends up with me throwing my laptop through the television screen!

FatherTed

me-skywalker wrote: »

So water is Flocke's kyrptonite. He's also impervious to bullets. He can fly. He has a hot, if slightly eccentric chick on his side. His motivations are to protect his 'world'. He has a mysterious background. He has a direct opposite. Has father issues. MY GOD!! He's Superman!!!

Not only that but he's also MacGyver - being able to disarm the bomb on the plane and then create a sophisticated timing device attached to the bomb for the sub in a matter of minutes.

jimbling

seadnamac wrote: »

I know that's not what all the Flash sideways was about but I just don't care about the characters in that timeline. That Locke and that Jack are not the ones I've been watching for last five seasons. I wish I did care but I don't, but hey that's just me.

Fair enough, but I don't see the problem. They ARE the same characters.... they're lives are different yes, but they are still the same characters.

seadnamac wrote: »

So everytime a list is mentioned (by Jacob, Dogen, Linus, Widmore etc) is it always the same list? Not being smart, genuine question. I'd love if it was, once less thing to be frustrated about.

Well, I didn't say that and certainly the lists that the others had back in the early seasons were very different, so if that's what you are referring to in Linus, then no they are not the same.
But I believe the Candidate list to be the same no matter who's talking about it. Some may be more up to date than others though.

seadnamac wrote: »

I don't know, it seems a bit odd to turn Sayid "dark" for a few episodes and then just turn him back again. What was the point? To show that Desmond is capable of reversing Fake Lockes powers or whatever? Hmmm...

What was the point? so that he would kill a fck load of people. He made a deal with the devil for his own gain. Desmond probably made him realise what he did and he was now seeking redemption.

seadnamac wrote: »

You're sure he had his reasons (airplane), I would prefer to not have to make assumptions on something they've spent a lot of this season focusing on. I mean after all that, they spent 60 seconds there and that was it. To me, that was a good example of one of my main gripes with this show, building something up to make it seem important and then just playing it off as if it wasn't. But again, that's just me.

You see, this is where my viewing differs from most of the people I debate lost with.
The plane, although irritating, was never a big deal for me. I always thought it was a bit of a red herring anyway

And secondly, you even say it yourself. They made it seem important. Shows do that, they go one way, then twist it so the viewer will go "ah, I see, so it wasn't the plane flocke was interested after all, it was killing the candidates".

seadnamac wrote: »

In fairness, I've enjoyed and bought into the show for five seasons, it's only this season that I've become somewhat (understatement!) disallusioned with it, so I'm hardly going to stop watching now. I'm here until the end, whether or not it ends up with me throwing my laptop through the television screen!

Well, that's fair enough....each to their own....

And yes, I am also very concerned that some of the important questions are going to go unanswered, but that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of each individual episode.
And since it is not a complaint about the episode, I'll take it to the whine about lost thread, or the numerous other threads that are currently on the front page dealing with that sort of thing.

MrMojoRisin'

8

i think the deal with the plane was flocke trusted sawyer initially to bring everyone to the plane and they all escape that way, but when sawyer robbed the boat, flocke turned on him hence trying to blow up the submarine and kill em all in one go,,

i presume for flocke killing all the candidates would have the same outcome as leaving the island with all the candidates, but now he has resigned to killing all the candidates... thats what he meant at the ending, when claire asked are they all dead, flocke replied not all of em, now im going to finish what i started, by killing them all..

anyways gave it a 9, good episode, cant wait for it to be over

jimbling

MrMojoRisin' wrote: »

i think the deal with the plane was flocke trusted sawyer initially to bring everyone to the plane and they all escape that way, but when sawyer robbed the boat, flocke turned on him hence trying to blow up the submarine and kill em all in one go,,

i presume for flocke killing all the candidates would have the same outcome as leaving the island with all the candidates, but now he has resigned to killing all the candidates... thats what he meant at the ending, when claire asked are they all dead, flocke replied not all of em, now im going to finish what i started, by killing them all..

anyways gave it a 9, good episode, cant wait for it to be over

I couldn't disagree more.

sprinkles

9

I honestly think that Flocke meant to kill all the candidates but as Jack clearly states at the end he can't kill them - same way Richard couldn't kill himself (and Jack) - so he had to rely on them to kill each other. I'm a little confused by this though because if the candidates can't kill themselves, proved with Richard and Jack in the Black Rock, then surely Sawyer, who is a candidate, couldn't have done it either and his removing the wires from the bomb would have had the same effect as leaving it alone. Unless it is only Jack that can't kill himself!?

Anyway, thinking about it now there are a few things that annoyed me a bit.

1. the plane is grounded on the beach. If they realistically wanted to take off in it would they be able to get it up to sufficient speed on sand? I doubt it would even move, the wheels would most likely dig in to the sand.

2. Why didn't Sayid just throw the bomb through the 2nd hatch (the one that "killed" Burt) and lock the hatch rather than keep running, make very little extra ground yet leave the hatch open.

the_monkey

7

wow ... great episode , really enjoying the sideways timeline now.

Jack is imo the best character in Lost , I never disliked him even back in
season 3 with that howler of an episode.

Is confusing with Flocke, why can't he kill them individually ?
also how will he finish this if he can't ?

emotional scene with Jin and Sun dying .

I wonder is Lapidius dead, wouldn't surprise me if he turned up again,
maybe he'll swim up to surface off screen (and meet patchy :rolleyes: ) .

dudeitshurley

Excellent episode, Matthew Fox outstanding.

If it wasn't obvious before this, i think it's now blatantly obvious that MIB needs all the candidates to die. All canidates dead + Jacob dead = he can get off the island (if that's actually what he wants at all) or basically do whatever the hell it is he wants to do.

I was hoping for some ground-shattering realisation from Jack or Locke in the Sideways. i.e. similar to Desmond/Charlie/Hurleys epiphany. But i guess that is being saved for the Finale.

As for Lapidus (if he escaped) and possibly all of them, they all need a decompression oxygen chamber!!!! The Bends much?!!

Are we to assume the rules are as follows: On the island - MIB/Jacob cannot kill candidates. Candidates cannot kill themselves. Candidates can kill other candidates?! Could be problematic though, if Sawyer set the bomb off then he'd be killing others but not himself? Clearly candidates can die (Kwons) and Flocke worked hard to save jack from the air-bombardment.

Another problem with this - why did he not get Sayid during his darkest hour to wipe them all out?

I suppose the only gripe at all is that, for all the episode was brilliant, that's 1 more episode gone where there was actually no reveal or mythology even questioned. I don't know but i'm gonna go out on a limb and say the Finale itself will, at least in some part, be more action-adventurey so that leaves 3 episodes remaining, 1 of which is

non-lostie-centric

. I guess they will get there somehow but it's slightly worrying.