Dole Fraudsters - Give Up Your Oul Sins!

starbelgrade

Call for social welfare amnesty

The Government should introduce a social welfare amnesty to prevent fraud estimated at €660 million a year, a business group said today.

The Small Firms Association said it was estimated 3 per cent of payments a year are lost across all social welfare categories and that this must stop.

It suggested a 90-day social welfare amnesty whereby recipients would be given the opportunity to admit any fraudulent claims.

“While the Department of Social and Family Affairs have taken action to deal with the issue of fraud, in 2009, 308 cases were forwarded to the Chief State Solicitor’s Office to initiate legal proceedings and 356 cases were finalised in court and more recently in the area of cross border social welfare claims, however, more needs to be done,” said SFA director Avine McNally.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0503/breaking13.html

Mike 1972

starbelgrade wrote: »

The Small Firms Association said it was estimated 3 per cent of payments a year are lost across all social welfare categories

Funny from reading some of the anti-welfare rants on AH I was sure it was more like 97% ?

Smcgie

Another government fail if introduced

Fraudster: Hi I want to give up my €200 that I have been claiming illegally for the last number of years.

Dole: Sorry were are on strike at the moment, a dole amnesty is also not in or job description.

Another Mega Fail - palm to face!!

Mr. Incognito

ANOTHER Dole Bashing Thread!

Do the bigots ever give up.

Look if you all love the dole so much, quit whinging and quit your job and stfu.

Also please turn to page 2 for the exciting conclusion of this rant

ejmaztec

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Funny from reading some of the anti-welfare rants on AH I was sure it was more like 97% ?

The AH 97% usually refers to the legally paid €3000 each per week and the free Beemers, backed up by the word "FACT!".

starbelgrade

Smcgie wrote: »

Another government fail:

Fraudster: Hi I want to give up my €200 that I have been claiming illegally for the last number of years.

Dole: Sorry were are on strike at the moment, a dole amnesty is also not in or job description.

Another Mega Fail - palm to face!!

No - it's a proposal that has been put forward by the Small Firms Association. Thread reading & reply fail.

Smcgie

I use my dole money for coke and hookers

Smcgie

starbelgrade wrote: »

No - it's a proposal that has been put forward by the Small Firms Association. Thread reading & reply fail.

I edited before you posted = you fail

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

ANOTHER Dole Bashing Thread!

Do the bigots ever give up.

Look if you all love the dole so much, quit whinging and quit your job and stfu.

It's not a dole bashing thread & it's neither written by a bigot, nor a proposal put forward by bigots. If you took the time to read the article, rather than lashing out with your vitriol, you would see that it is a proposal to allow dole fraudsters - not those legitametely recieving benefits - to come forward & admit that they are illegaly taking money from the taxpayers pockets.

It would work in much the same way as the weapons amnesty we had a while back & with that amnesty, I never heard anyone complaining about "illegal weapon's owners bashing".

starbelgrade

Smcgie wrote: »

I edited before you posted = you fail

And I quoted you before you edited. Who failed there?!

Mr. Incognito

It's not a dole bashing thread & it's neither written by a bigot, nor a proposal put forward by bigots. If you took the time to read the article, rather than lashing out with your vitriol, you would see that it is a proposal to allow dole fraudsters - not those legitametely recieving benefits - to come forward & admit that they are illegaly taking money from the taxpayers pockets.

It would work in much the same way as the weapons amnesty we had a while back & with that amnesty, I never heard anyone complaining about "illegal weapon's owners bashing"

It is ESTIMATED. Estimations, not fact. I would drill into their figures and most likely disprove most of it. And even if they are accurate, who flipping cares. The government just dropped 42 Billion in Anglo and reached into workers pockets for it. And you attack the dole. Are you secretly Sean Fitzpatrick??

The dole is like a weapons amnesty? Man are you for real?

You seem to spend most of your time in AH bashing people on the dole, during the day. Are you at work right now during office hours giving out about dole scroungers whilst getting paid to be on Boards??

Like seriously, did someone on the dole rape your dog or hang your cat? Such haters.

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It is ESTIMATED. Estimations, not fact. I would drill into their figures and most likely disprove most of it.

The dole is like a weapons amnesty? Man are you for real?

You seem to spend most of your time in AH bashing people on the dole, during the day. Are you at work right now during office hours giving out about dole scroungers whilst getting paid to be on Boards??

Like seriously, did someone on the dole rape your dog or hang your cat? Such haters.

No-one is saying that the figures put forward are fact. That is not the point. The point is, that there is a percentage of people who are claiming the dole, who are doing so illegally. No-one knows the real extent - it could be 2%, it could be 0.00002%, but whatever the figure is, an amnesty would be a very cost effective way of reducing these figures as the investigation of social welfare fraud takes up a lot of time, money & resources.

As for me spending my time "dole bashing" - back that up or GTFO.

changes

Waste and fraud can be attacked on all fronts. It shouldn't be a choice between Anglo and dole fraud.... waste is waste and fraud is fraud.

BTW the amnesty is a joke... dole fraudsters don't lose sleep about getting caught. The penalties need to be massively increased for dole fraud and all types of fraud imo (white and blue collar)

PCPhoto

Smcgie wrote: »

I use my dole money for cookers and hoke

FYP

twinQuins

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The dole is like a weapons amnesty? Man are you for real?

He said this amnesty is like the weapons amnesty; he was drawing an analogy.

Come on, I know you're better than to completely misrepresent what posters say.

Mr. Incognito

As for me spending my time "dole bashing" - back that up or GTFO.

Targeting:

starbelgrade wrote: »

In the true spirit of social inclusion, I propose to, by Friday kick out the following;

1. All foreigners, out of the country
2. All doleites, off the dole
3. All fat people, onto the weight watchers programme
4. All newbies, off Boards
5. All preists, out of the Church.

I hope I haven't left anyone out.

will PEOPLE EVER STOP GENERALISING ABOUT PEOPLE ON THE DOLE!!!

As so many have said before. Just live on the dole and see if it is in any way luxurious. you will soon realise that dole luxuries are BS for 99.999% of people

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65656668#post65656668

Starbelgrade
I take it then that the figure of 99.999% of people is indeed a sourced figure & not just a generalisation as to what they actually spend their money on?

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not the people that have been made unemployed that I have a beef with. It's not even the long term unemployed who have never worked that I have a particular beef with either.

My problem is with the system. It was never designed to deal with the situation that most of the recently unemployed people now face. All of them payed PRSI for many years, yet when faced with the prospect of long term unemployment, most only recieve benefits for a year before they are means tested & the self employed don't recieve any benefits at all.

It makes you wonder why people pay PRSI at all, when all it seems to do is promote the culture & support the lifestyles of the dolites who wouldn't take a job if their lives depended on it & have never contributed anything whatsoever to the system or society

starbelgrade wrote: »

Social Welfare is supposed to be there to provide emergency support for those who find themselves out of work. Unfortunately, for a long, long time it has become a career choice for many people who couldn't be ars*d working & is designed in such a way that it is actually an attractive choice for many people.

It wasn't designed for the situation we are in now - many of the professionals you mentioned above were hit by the collapse of the construction industry which started around 2 years ago. A lot of them no longer recieve benefits as they have run out & others, who were self employed, never recieved any in the first place.

Meanwhile, the scobies & layabouts still get their "entitlements", minus the Christmas "bonus". (The government didn't "think of the kids" there!)

Pay Related Social Insurance is one of the most inappropriately named things ever - it is pay related alright, but only related to what you are being paid.

As for drug testing? Jesus H. Why not just shoot them?

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Targeting:

The second quote was clearly a tongue-in-cheek post. Even you can clearly see that.

The 3rd quote is from yourself.

The 4th & 5th quotes are posts by me which question the system by which social welfare benefits are distributed & quite clearly, in no way constitute "dole bashing".

As I said, back up your accusations or stop making them.

Mr. Incognito

Meanwhile, the scobies & layabouts still get their "entitlements",

Nope, no bashing there at all.

I think anyone with an ability to read can call this one.

JONJO THE MISER

Give up me dole:eek:

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Nope, no bashing there at all.

I think anyone with an ability to read can call this one.

What you fail to recognise, either through a blind distaste for anything I have written, or for other personal reasons, is that in the current climate, there is a fundamental need to address the way in which social welfare benefits are distibruted.

The system was never introduced to deal with the situation we are in now - ie., that we have a huge amount of highly skilled & motivated workers being made unemployed & facing long term unemployment with very little chance of them getting jobs any time soon - especially in the likes of the construction industry.

Many of these workers recieve benefits for up to a year & are then are means tested. Others, who were self-employed are not entitled to any benefits whatsoever. Yet, these people paid enormous amounts of taxes & PRSI into a system that will fail to help them out when they are in a time of financial difficulty.

Compare them, to a long term dolite, who has never worked, never intends to work & has never paid PRSI in his / her life.

The system is highly inequitable & not justifiable, in that it provides more long term support to those who have never contributed to it all.

This is not "dole bashing". If anything, I think that Social Welfare benefits should be extended to include those who were made redundant due to the downturn in the economy.

If you want to continue accusing me of "dole bashing", then fire away - I have made my point clearly & repeatedly and have no interest in engaging in this discussion any further.

Mr. Incognito

What you fail to recognise, either through a blind distaste for anything I have written, or for other personal reasons, is that in the current climate, there is a fundamental need to address the way in which social welfare benefits are distibruted.

The system was never introduced to deal with the situation we are in now - ie., that we have a huge amount of highly skilled & motivated workers being made unemployed & facing long term unemployment with very little chance of them getting jobs any time soon - especially in the likes of the construction industry.

Many of these workers recieve benefits for up to a year & are then are means tested. Others, who were self-employed are not entitled to any benefits whatsoever. Yet, these people paid enormous amounts of taxes & PRSI into a system that will fail to help them out when they are in a time of financial difficulty.

Compare them, to a long term dolite, who has never worked, never intends to work & has never paid PRSI in his / her life.

The system is highly inequitable & not justifiable, in that it provides more long term support to those who have never contributed to it all.

This is not "dole bashing". If anything, I think that Social Welfare benefits should be extended to include those who were made redundant due to the downturn in the economy.

If you want to continue accusing me of "dole bashing", then fire away - I have made my point clearly & repeatedly and have no interest in engaging in this discussion any further.

Oh dear. I will make the same point here I made in the other thread.

Self employed persons are entitled to deductions from expenses, they do not pay VAT on purchases if VAT registered, are entitled to claim capital allowances and other tax write downs against interest. If they are self employed they are presumably earning a wage, if they are not, well they can go on the dole.

The dole is just over 27 euro a day. This is very very very difficult to live on.

I agree that the system is highly unfair, but as a tax consultant whose job it is to ensure my clients pay as little or no tax as possible I can inform you that the top earners in this country pay the least tax. Those like Michael O Leary choose to pay tax, he could feck off to Switzerland if he wanted.

The government has chosen to bail out the bankers who are responsible for the financial collapse in this country and instead of heaping the blame where it belongs you decide to attack the people who are out of work, depressed and in many cases are forced to emigrate to find employment.

You sir, are better off retiring from this debate, and the next time you start another stupid dole bashing thread I'll be back with the same points.

Calibos

It seems to me that this is like the unmarried mothers threads. You have a thread started specifically to discuss the pyjama during the day wearing unmaried mothers called jacinta with 4 kids by 4 different absent fathers and the inherent incentive for them to drop another sprog to get more welfare or a bigger house.

Then in comes a girl with a college degree with one child from a relationship that didn't last with an ex that tries his best to contribute to the cost of rearing his kid, who is drawing welfare/child support while working part time and doing night courses to increase her job skillset. And she starts bashing the thread starter for giving out about HER.

She's so Vain. I bet she thought that thread was about her....about her :rolleyes:

Similarily, no one is giving out about the 150,000 'Workers' that just joined the dole queues in the last few years. No one is giving out about those on genuine disability, no one is giving out about those who for other genuine reasons are not suitable for the workforce. They are giving out about the hardcore 100,000 lazy wastes of space that take advantage of the rest of us.

Mr. Incognito

Yes, that take advantage of the massive payout of 27 bucks a day. The bastards.

Pull your heads out of your holes.

Calibos

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Yes, that take advantage of the massive payout of 27 bucks a day. The bastards.

Pull your heads out of your holes.

You don't seem to understand why it rankles people that some tossers get something for nothing. That the people who work 40+ hours a week for only a hundred quid more (14 quid a day more) shouldn't complain about the wasters that sit on their hole all day for nearly the same money???

Look, it even has an evolutionary basis. A fcuking chimpanzee has an instinctual sense of unfairness. Experiments have shown that a chimp will throw his carrot away in disgust if the chimp in the cage beside him gets a nice juicy melon whereas he will be thrilled with the carrot if his neighbour gets a carrot too.

Now of course you will say this sounds more like jealousy. No I am not jealous of the guy that gets something for nothing. I don't want to be him because I have some self respect. I don't want that lazy fecker to have nothing either but there has to be some incentive for him to get up of his lazy ass and join the workforce and contribute like the rest of us.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

This is epic fail.

Ah sure we'll guilt people into giving back the money, because ultimately we screwed up, along with our banker mates and developer mates, but we'll look towards those who are an easy target, yet again, to support our corruption.

Why would anybody in their right mind admit to fraud? How do they think this is going to work?

While I don't like to see people taking social welfare for a complete ride, I also don't like to see people getting targeted like this while the government bail out the banks. Yes, I understand that for the economy it is extremely important that these bailouts exist.

Calibos

Oh I didn't realise this thread was advocating tightening the welfare system to eliminate fraud and the incentive to not work in lieu of tightening banking regulations or going after the corrupt politicians or banks. :rolleyes:

Son Of A Vidic

I'm more concerned about our money being p1ssed down the drain on 8astard bankers, rather than the distribution of Social Welfare payments.

Mark200

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It is ESTIMATED. Estimations, not fact. I would drill into their figures and most likely disprove most of it. And even if they are accurate, who flipping cares. The government just dropped 42 Billion in Anglo and reached into workers pockets for it. And you attack the dole. Are you secretly Sean Fitzpatrick??

Ah so because the Government bailed out Anglo, we should all just cross our arms and keep having a little hissy fit about it instead of actually looking at ways to save money. Which we need to do.

Nice.

Einhard

Smcgie wrote: »

I use my dole money for coke and hookers

My dole is paid in coke and hookers

Overheal

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You seem to spend most of your time in AH bashing people on the dole, during the day.

Like seriously, did someone on the dole rape your dog or hang your cat? Such haters.

And you seem to spend your time on AH jumping out of bushes and trying to bully anyone who wants to try and discuss the Dole system or its loopholes.

You are taking this really personally for someone who isn't being attacked. You come across as basically defending people who exploit the Dole.

You may be living on €27 a day (oh yes, I know the NUM) but the point being made is there are exploiters out there making other sources of income and then still taking this €27 a day in additional to their undeclared earnings. Like the fat kids on a desert island.

slimjimmc

It's a Social Welfare amnesty, it covers a lot more than just dole fraud, e.g. co-habiting couples claiming single parent allowance.

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The government has chosen to bail out the bankers who are responsible for the financial collapse in this country and instead of heaping the blame where it belongs you decide to attack the people who are out of work, depressed and in many cases are forced to emigrate to find employment.

You sir, are better off retiring from this debate, and the next time you start another stupid dole bashing thread I'll be back with the same points.

Jesus H. You're like a f*cking broken record. I wouldn't mind, but you constantly refuse to accept the fact that none of what I have said has been an attack on anyone on the dole. All I have done is questioned the system & the means by which the money is distributed & as someone who has paid a significant amount of PRSI over the years, I think I have the right to do so.

Bazzy

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Targeting:

Think you need to take heed of your signature

I think an amnesty would be no harm at least it would give people the chance. if they had an amnesty and then up the penalties if caught it might help

--LOS--

I don't see how any decent person could be against a proposal like this, so the banks are getting a bail-out and so what, we should grab what we can and make things even worse?

This doesn't target everyone on the dole, just the people taking advantage of the system, I don't know how successful it would be at enticing the dishonest claimers to come forward, but least it would eliminate any uncertainty in the punishment befitting each case, those choosing to remain dishonest can expect to be hit with the harshest punishment, no excuses.

Mr. Incognito

No, you are basically looking for fat kids on an island.

Here have a read:

Oireachtas Jint Committe hearing report on Social Welfare Fraud.

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/that-oireachtas-joint-committe-on-social-and-family-affairs-social-welfare-fraud/

Staying on topic:

Fraud isn't that prevalent to need an amnesty :rolleyes:

Why don't you people do a bit of research before going around poking people with sticks.

THE BOOGEYMAN ISN"T REAL!!!!!

I'm in the highest tax bracket, how many of the dole bashers are in the top tax bracket here. Hands up please. Seeing as they are spending all your PRSI as you see it.

Why not take up an attack against Tesco for example. Shower of **** them.

Overheal

Bazzy wrote: »

I think an amnesty would be no harm at least it would give people the chance. if they had an amnesty and then up the penalties if caught it might help

Thats not a bad idea - introduce amnesty, announce an increase in penalties 6 months from now, and some people will be more willing to walk while they can.

mox54

The government is so useless,inept and corrupt that I wouldnt blame anyone for scamming the dole to get by a little easier......whatever helps..helps:rolleyes:

Overheal

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

No, you are basically looking for fat kids on an island.

Here have a read:

Oireachtas Jint Committe hearing report on Social Welfare Fraud.

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/that-oireachtas-joint-committe-on-social-and-family-affairs-social-welfare-fraud/

Staying on topic:

Fraud isn't that prevalent to need an amnesty :rolleyes:

Why don't you people do a bit of research before going around poking people with sticks.

THE BOOGEYMAN ISN"T REAL!!!!!

I'm in the highest tax bracket, how many of the dole bashers are in the top tax bracket here. Hands up please. Seeing as they are spending all your PRSI as you see it.

Why not take up an attack against Tesco for example. Shower of **** them.

So you oppose amnesty because you don't believe theres anyone (or enough people) frauding the Dole?

Im sorry, whats 3% of €21.3 Billion? €639,000,000? Ah sure, let them have it. That cant Run a Hospital or anything. Oh wait, it could probably run 600.

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

No, you are basically looking for fat kids on an island.

Oireachtas Jint Committe hearing report on Social Welfare Fraud.

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/that-oireachtas-joint-committe-on-social-and-family-affairs-social-welfare-fraud/

Staying on topic:

Fraud isn't that prevalent to need an amnesty :rolleyes:

Why don't you people do a bit of research before going around poking people with sticks.

From the article you quoted...

Almost €476 million in social welfare payments was saved through fraud control measures in 2008, an increase of €29 million on the previous year. This year the target is over €600 million.

Hardly an insignificant figure. One might even say that it is enough to feed an island full of fat kids. And as an amnesty would cost relatively very little - without the need to criminalise people - it could also be very effective.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'm in the highest tax bracket, how many of the dole bashers are in the top tax bracket here. Hands up please. Seeing as they are spending all your PRSI as you see it.

I'm very happy for you, but I seriously doubt that anyone gives a f*ck what you are earning. Besides that, not everyone feels the need to boast about their earnings before making a comment on social welfare fraud, nor is paying the top rate of tax a pre-requisite for doing so.

That is like saying that anyone who has never played professional football cannot have a valid opinion about a Premiership match.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Why not take up an attack against Tesco for example. Shower of **** them.

Why not start a thread about Tesco, if you feel that strongly about it? Tesco has no relevance to this thread.

Mister men

Get a job ya dirty bum.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Overheal wrote: »

So you oppose amnesty because you don't believe theres anyone (or enough people) frauding the Dole?

Im sorry, whats 3% of €21.3 Billion? €639,000,000? Ah sure, let them have it. That cant Run a Hospital or anything. Oh wait, it could probably run 600.

It could run 600 hospitals in America maybe Not here, where there happens to be something of a health system, however shít that may be :P

Overheal

Jaycee Lively Tummy wrote: »

It could run 600 hospitals in America maybe Not here, where there happens to be something of a health system, however shít that may be :P

The figure is supposed from Biggin's thread, where Crumlin was on the verge of being closed over an inability to find a relatively mere €10m in the Budget.

Mr. Incognito

I knew you would be too lazy to read the article in it's entirerity.

*sigh*

Deputy Olwyn Enright: What is the baseline for the level of fraud?

Ms Niamh O’Donoghue: I think it is very difficult to give an absolute as to the level of fraud.On the evidence we have assembled through those surveys it is less than 1% of expenditure. They are not all attributable to fraud. Some of them are attributable to customer or departmental error. However, the levels of fraud are generally quite low, except in one or two particular circumstances

Deputy Róisín Shortall: What are those one or two?

Ms Niamh O’Donoghue: Regarding one-parent families, cohabitation was mentioned earlier. Some people are working and claiming jobseeker’s allowance

Deputy Róisín Shortall: To clarify the issue of cross-Border fraud, about which we heard a great deal, is it correct that six vehicles were stopped in one operation and nine vehicles in another?

Mr. Eoin Ó Broin: No, we had six checkpoints in the north west region with the Garda and a further nine in the north east.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: How many people did officials see in the six operations?

Mr. Eoin Ó Broin: We interviewed 169 people in the north west where six checkpoints were held and 194 in the north east where nine checkpoints were carried out.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Does Mr. Ó Broin have information on the outcomes of the interviews?

Mr. Eoin Ó Broin: Of the 169 people in question, we identified 106 cases for follow-up action.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: What was the outcome of this action?

Mr. Eoin Ó Broin: While the outcomes are ongoing, in four of the cases we identified people were working and signing.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Four out of 363 cases.

Mr. Eoin Ó Broin: Yes.

Deputy Róisín Shortall: Is that not an exceptionally low figure?

This is what happens when we get people like you

And to real-life cases…

Deputy Seymour Crawford: I would like to give Ms O’Donoghue an example of a specific case. I have already mentioned it on the record of the House. I refer to a case in which an inspector could not understand how an old age pensioner who had returned from England five years previously was able to survive on the pension he was receiving. The inspector decided that the person in question must have been doing something else. When the inspector asked the man how he feeds himself, the man said he sometimes goes up to his brother’s farm to work, and might get his dinner there. When the review of the man’s circumstances was completed, the man learned that the inspector had decided he was getting €100 a week from his brother for working on the farm and that his dinner was classified as being worth €50 a week. As a result, he was not entitled to any social welfare benefit. When I visited the farm in question, I noted that the wife of the man’s brother was an invalid and was not fit to cook any dinner or anything else. I also learned that the man’s brother was giving him nothing. As far as I am concerned, the inspector’s approach was totally over the top and cannot be justified.

Welfare fraud does is exist, and should be stamped out. There are measures being put into place all the time to tighten things.

That's not what this thread is about. It's about you lot, most likely paying a tiny amount of PRSI having a rant at the most vunerable and poorest in our society. It sickens me.

I hope you never lose your jobs because this type is ignorance and prejudice is sadly prevalent.

Im sorry, whats 3% of €21.3 Billion? €639,000,000? Ah sure, let them have it. That cant Run a Hospital or anything. Oh wait, it could probably run 600.

Where did you pull these figures from please?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Overheal wrote: »

The figure is supposed from Biggin's thread, where Crumlin was on the verge of being closed over an inability to find a relatively mere €10m in the Budget.

That was a special ward in a hospital, not the whole structure. Was it not?

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I knew you would be too lazy to read the article in it's entirerity.

*sigh*

Welfare fraud does is exist, and should be stamped out. There are measures being put into place all the time to tighten things.

That's not what this thread is about. It's about you lot, most likely paying a tiny amount of PRSI having a rant at the most vunerable and poorest in our society. It sickens me.

Not only did I read the entire article, but I also saw the question session between Deputy Róisín Shortall & Mr. Ó Broin on Oireachtas Report.

We both agree that welfare fraud should be stamped out. My point in starting this thread was simply to highlight a news article from today's paper which suggested a low-cost means of reducing fraud without criminalising fraudsters.

The same thing happened with the weapons amnesty in 2006 to some degree of success - 368 illegally held weapons were surrendered, at no cost to either the taxpayer or those who had previously held the weapons illegally. Now, I am not comparing the two amnesties for any other reson than they would work in the same way - If the same thing happened with a dole fraud amnesty, we would have nothing to lose & something to gain - no matter how small the figures.

As for your last comment, which I have highlighted - it is blatantly obvious from this that for some unknown reason, you want to take this debate to a personal level & I will not dignify that with a response.

Overheal

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I knew you would be too lazy to read the article in it's entirerity.

*sigh*

Well you see Cog, thats why you cant just fire off links in Politics for instance: it doesnt constitute a discussion.

Thank you for pulling the Relevant material.

This is what happens when we get people like you

You don't even know me. You're trying to demonize me and others here, tbh. Ironic due to your Boogeyman remark, earlier.

Welfare fraud does is exist, and should be stamped out. There are measures being put into place all the time to tighten things.

That's not what this thread is about. It's about you lot, most likely paying a tiny amount of PRSI having a rant at the most vunerable and poorest in our society. It sickens me.

No, this thread is about Stamping Out Fraud, and New Measures being put into place to Tighten Things. You're the only one turning it into some Crusade, trying to insinuate that I get a hard-on from putting little old ladies out on the road.

I hope you never lose your jobs because this type is ignorance and prejudice is sadly prevalent.

Ditto.

Where did you pull these figures from please?

Your link, to be fair: according to which The Dole budget was €21.3 billion. The Original Post of this thread quotes 3% Fraud. €10m came from the looming closure of the Crumlin Children's Ward over the sum of approximately €10m, according to discussion gleaned from Biggins' thread 6 months ago. As Iamxavier points out I have exaggerated how far €10m can be stretched; but I would like to maintain the point that rather than satisfy Dole fraud the money can be served to other means; for example, Healthcare.

Bazzy

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It's about you lot, most likely paying a tiny amount of PRSI having a rant at the most vunerable and poorest in our society. It sickens me.

I am in the higher tax bracket and pay a substantial amount of PRSI and so does my employer.

I would never tar anyone with the brush that you just have.

I think you should jump back onto your high horse and gallop out of here bucko.

The amnesty would work to a certain degree and if the penalties were raised higher

EG pay the money back and perform say community service filling pot holes or cleaning up graffiti or painting fences people would soon cop on and the government might save a few bob in the process not having to give it to councils.

stupidusername

One idea that would be easy enough to implement, and very low cost is to cut off all those unemployed for a period of 5 years or more. Or even three years or more, if some people have a problem with 5 years. To implement it it could be automatic through the computerised system they have. Easy, and low cost.

Can't imagine how anyone (besides the lazy bums unemployed long term) would have a problem with this. It's a blanket cut off and social welfare inspectors don't have to worry about possible intimidation from investigating the cases.

Anyone see any problems with this? Wonder how much money this'd save.

Edit: I worked out around how much this might save in SW. The statistics I could get I think were only for the first half of 2009 but there were 25,245 in the country unemployed for 3 years or more. And assuming each is getting €196 a week, this solution would save nearly €5 million per week, or more than €257 million in a year.

Mr. Incognito

If you can't beat em.......


*Grabs pitchfork*

Okay I'll see you ouside the dole queue on Kevin St. Lets hurl abuse at the junkies and tell them to get a job.

Overheal

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you can't beat em.......


*Grabs pitchfork*

Okay I'll see you ouside the dole queue on Kevin St. Lets hurl abuse at the junkies and tell them to get a job.

Its almost completely humourless how poorly you seem to have grasped the point.

Bazzy

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you can't beat em.......


*Grabs pitchfork*

Okay I'll see you ouside the dole queue on Kevin St. Lets hurl abuse at the junkies and tell them to get a job.

I don't think they have any stables on kevin street for prsi tax bracket high horses

Your probably best going back up your ivory tower and paying lots of tax and prsi and galloping round on your high horse


There are so many reasons why an amnesty would work even if it only stopped one person claiming illegaly an amnesty would cost nothing

I mean ireland is the country where criminals can effectivly launder money via criminal assets bureau and people get worked up over the dole !