How to become a better writer?

af_thefragile

My ambition is to become an established writer.

I've currently got 2 plots I'm working to write a novel on and I really want to get one of them completed and published within 3 years.
Apart from that I've also got another 6 pretty decent ideas that would make a pretty good story. I really don't have a shortage of stories to come up with. I'm pretty good at coming up with story lines and plots and such. I've told a couple of them to my friend who's really critical of everything I do and reads a lot of novels and even he was pretty impressed with them.

The place where I struggle is putting those story lines down in words. I'm not very good when it comes to describing things and this causes my stories to end up very bland and uninteresting.

Now I know this isn't going to work if I want to become a writer. And so I was wondering if anyone of you know any good tips or ways I could improve my writing style to become better at describing things/situations/locations more effectively and creatively that could add the much needed colour and definition to my stories helping me on my way to achieve my goal of getting my stories published and becoming a writer.

Do you think the creative writing workshops and courses are any useful or is there something I could do by myself that could help me improve my writing style? Considering I really don't have a problem coming up with plots and characters but just putting it down effectively in words.

pickarooney

A good story should pretty much tell itself with minimal interference from the writer. The only way to improve how you tell a story really is to tell it and tell it again until most of the 'writing' is gone from it.

As far as characters go, if you believe in the yourself they'll come across as believable on the page, so don't be afraid to imagine an entire life's history for your characters, even if you only end up writing a couple of lines of it into the actual story.

Other than that, having someone who will tell you straight out if something is not working is a godsend and you should make the most of it (without abusing the privilege ).

Of course you can always ask us what we think as well, or join one of the writing groups from here that meets up regularly.

I can't comment on how useful workshops and courses are, but I've never been really able to understand what they purport to do.

EileenG

It's been said before. A writer writes. Keep writing, not just thinking up plots, and you will develop your skills. Write 1000 words a day, no matter how terrible or bland you think they are, and the skills will come.

As for description, I'm a huge fan of the telling detail, rather than pages of scenery. Most people already know what a horse, or a flat in Ballymun, or Julia Roberts looks like. You put in the bit that makes your horse or flat different from the rest.

Some courses are excellent. I highly recommend Patricia O'Reilly's one in UCD, but some are so keen to get people writing that they don't give effective feedback. As Pickarooney says, sometimes you need someone who will say "That bit doesn't work, and that bit has no point."

abouttobebanned

Read a lot. Write a lot. Winalot.

MonkeySocks24

Writing down your thoughts regularly and maybe even events that have happened in your life will help you form a natural flow with your writing. I can't stress enough how important it is to read alot and different books. You say that you find it had to describe things in your writing, if it is characters then read Dickens, he is a master at this, Orwell for Places, cities and towns and Hardy for landscape and scenery. If you read these writers and pay attention at how naturally they describe details, it will begin to sink in and you will find yourself doing it. Practice doesn't make perfect but it certainly helps!

af_thefragile

Thanks. A lot of good advice here.
I guess my biggest problem is that I don't write enough. I used to write a lot back in school days and I never used to have any problem writing stories for my english class.

But since I got into med school, I find it harder and harder to find the time to sit down and write something good. Another maybe is that I'm aiming too high. When I usually sit down to write, I'm discouraged by the poor quality of whatever comes up and its nothing like what I've got planned in my head for it to be. This causes me to sorta almost give up and come back later to write something of a better quality.

Though I guess, I will not achieve that quality just by thinking up stories and situations. I need to sit down and keep writing no matter how poor it comes up. Eventually over time I can refine it and rewrite it in better quality till I end up with something I'ld be satisfied with.

Do you guys know any good authors or more specifically books to read which is good at details and descriptions?
I like Orwell, I was reading 1984 a while ago. Though Dickens bores me a bit. Haven't read any Hardy to say anything about him...

EileenG

Just keep reading. Fashions change in writing as well as everything else. The days of having long descriptions are gone, it's now more acceptable to drop in description a detail or two at a time, weaving it in with the action, so that you absorb it without being aware.

MonkeySocks24

af_thefragile wrote: »

Thanks. A lot of good advice here.
I guess my biggest problem is that I don't write enough. I used to write a lot back in school days and I never used to have any problem writing stories for my english class.

But since I got into med school, I find it harder and harder to find the time to sit down and write something good. Another maybe is that I'm aiming too high. When I usually sit down to write, I'm discouraged by the poor quality of whatever comes up and its nothing like what I've got planned in my head for it to be. This causes me to sorta almost give up and come back later to write something of a better quality.

Though I guess, I will not achieve that quality just by thinking up stories and situations. I need to sit down and keep writing no matter how poor it comes up. Eventually over time I can refine it and rewrite it in better quality till I end up with something I'ld be satisfied with.

Do you guys know any good authors or more specifically books to read which is good at details and descriptions?
I like Orwell, I was reading 1984 a while ago. Though Dickens bores me a bit. Haven't read any Hardy to say anything about him...

I am going to ignore that about Dickens :P. What about Roddy Doyle, Leo Tolstoy, Terry Pratchett, Roald Dahl, Douglas Adams, Nick Horny. Stephen King. Ben Elton, J.D Salinger, James Joyce, Dostoevsky, Paulo Coelho, so many more! Go into 'The Winding Stairs' They have a brilliant collection of new and secondhand books and they are always recommending stuff.

af_thefragile

MonkeySocks24 wrote: »

I am going to ignore that about Dickens :P. What about Roddy Doyle, Leo Tolstoy, Terry Pratchett, Roald Dahl, Douglas Adams, Nick Horny. Stephen King. Ben Elton, J.D Salinger, James Joyce, Dostoevsky, Paulo Coelho, so many more! Go into 'The Winding Stairs' They have a brilliant collection of new and secondhand books and they are always recommending stuff.

I did Great Expectations in school and maybe it was the fact I did it in school and had to write essays about it that sorta made me dislike that book.
Though on the other hand I did Hamlet in school too and I loved it... Once I managed to get past the word ****...

I picked up Lord of the Rings a while ago but found it a little tedious to read for all the names and places and descriptions and all that...

And then I find it tough to read on the bus because I end up getting a headache and start feeling sick so I was looking at some audiobooks I could listen to instead.

Anyway, if I manage to pass all my exams in a couple of weeks and not have any repeat exams to worry about, I'll have a good 3-4 months of summer to get reading and writing. Plan to get the whole story written down this summer so I can start focusing on the rewriting and editing process. I'll also go down to that bookstore and pick up a few good books to finish over the summer...

I'll probably just write it down for the sake of writing down the story not worrying much about the language and quality. Once I've got the whole thing down, then I can start working on making it more interesting and exciting!

MonkeySocks24

af_thefragile wrote: »

I did Great Expectations in school and maybe it was the fact I did it in school and had to write essays about it that sorta made me dislike that book.
Though on the other hand I did Hamlet in school too and I loved it... Once I managed to get past the word ****...

I picked up Lord of the Rings a while ago but found it a little tedious to read for all the names and places and descriptions and all that...

And then I find it tough to read on the bus because I end up getting a headache and start feeling sick so I was looking at some audiobooks I could listen to instead.

Anyway, if I manage to pass all my exams in a couple of weeks and not have any repeat exams to worry about, I'll have a good 3-4 months of summer to get reading and writing. Plan to get the whole story written down this summer so I can start focusing on the rewriting and editing process. I'll also go down to that bookstore and pick up a few good books to finish over the summer...

I'll probably just write it down for the sake of writing down the story not worrying much about the language and quality. Once I've got the whole thing down, then I can start working on making it more interesting and exciting!

Yes studying books can take the pleasure out of it. Sounds like a good solid plan. I think it's important just to write without correcting it so that the flow is natural and then do the hardcore editing later. Good luck with the exams! It must be a stressful time for you. There are so many cheap bookshops in Dublin it's great. I could never read on the bus! It would make me want to throw up. Audio books are a good idea. I must look into that someday. Have you joined any writing groups? I have done loads of writing workshops and found them useful. I am so overtired from writing think I am cockeyed now!

smcgiff

How about writing a screenplay, after learning the rules it might be the best way to get your ideas published.

MsFifers

I'd recommend taking a nightclass (maybe over the summer if you can find one if you are busy now with college). It can be really useful to get feedback on what works/what doesn't.

There are also numerous good books on writing - "On Writing" by Steven King, "Bird by Bird" by Anne Lamott and "Writing Down The Bones" by Natalie Goldberg.

The key thing they all recommend though is to just write, all the time, every day! Writing is a craft - you need to practise to get better.

Other commonly shared advice is to use the senses - ie don't just write actions, instead incorporate smell, sound, colour, texture.
- and "show don't tell" - eg "John was absolutely terrified" (telling) could instead be something like "John's eyes widened, his heartbeat hammering loudly in his ears" (showing).

Good luck!

af_thefragile

smcgiff wrote: »

How about writing a screenplay, after learning the rules it might be the best way to get your ideas published.

Not too keen on writing screenplays. Not yet anyway. I do have a big interest in film and animation, something I plan to do probably after I finish college, so when I get to that, I'ld probably like to write and direct a couple of movies and animated shows.

Anyway, for now I like expressing details of places, characters and situations. Which is why I like writing a novel as it gives you time freedom and space to do all of this. I like developing characters through time and playing with different structures and techniques. The last thing I'ld like to do is write down a great story only to be brutalised by a director which is why if I ever get to writing screenplays, I'ld wanna direct it myself as well! Its like when I come up with a story, it comes to me in a form of images and screenshots which I'ld like to translate down in words in the form of a novel and so have the story down exactly how I see it in my head. I like squeezing in a lot of deeper meanings and themes in my stories. Wouldn't wanna see it all getting modified by someone who doesn't share my vision neither has a proper understanding of the themes and depth of the story.

Just too bad right now I'm not very good at exactly what I wanna do, which is to convert all those images and screenshots in my head into words without loosing any of the colour and definition.

MsFifers wrote: »

I'd recommend taking a nightclass (maybe over the summer if you can find one if you are busy now with college). It can be really useful to get feedback on what works/what doesn't.

There are also numerous good books on writing - "On Writing" by Steven King, "Bird by Bird" by Anne Lamott and "Writing Down The Bones" by Natalie Goldberg.

The key thing they all recommend though is to just write, all the time, every day! Writing is a craft - you need to practise to get better.

Other commonly shared advice is to use the senses - ie don't just write actions, instead incorporate smell, sound, colour, texture.
- and "show don't tell" - eg "John was absolutely terrified" (telling) could instead be something like "John's eyes widened, his heartbeat hammering loudly in his ears" (showing).

Good luck!

I'ld like to join a writing group or something where I can share my works with other people and get back good feedback. Too bad there isn't one in my college and I don't really know any such place either. Night classes sound like a good idea too. I guess what I really need is some discipline. Every night I come home from college, I'm usually just too tired to do any writing and just end up watching TV or something. Having a place to go to which makes you write no matter what happens will definitely help...

I might check out a couple of those books you mentioned though I think I've read many books and articles on writing and most of them mostly deal with structuring stories, characters etc without much emphasis on how to improve the style and quality of the words and writing itself. Thats really what I need to improve. I read some of the stories in the story competition thread and I was really amazed by the quality of some of the stories. Not just the story itself but the quality of how it was written and presented. This is something I'm not good at and I wanna improve...

pickarooney

I'm a little confused. Are you not on your way to be coming a doctor? I'm all for being polyvalent but directing a few films while writing a few novels and working 80 hour weeks in a hospital sounds a little ambitious!

af_thefragile

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm a little confused. Are you not on your way to be coming a doctor? I'm all for being polyvalent but directing a few films while writing a few novels and working 80 hour weeks in a hospital sounds a little ambitious!

Aah....
Yeah. Its a little complicated... well, not really.
I always liked write stories do a bit of animation/film making and all.
Then after my leaving cert I got accepted into medschool and decided it would be a more secure career than doing all that music, writing, filming stuff.
So I decided I'll just do all that in the free time I get instead. Do you really need to go to college and get a degree to be able to write a novel?

So well, thats what I'm planning to do. I'll graduate in 3yrs time.
And I wanna get atleast one of the novels completed and try to get it published before I finish med school and moved on.
Because of the lack of time, I had to prioritise things. Music and film had to go (temporarily atleast) and I shifted my focus on getting the novels completed. I can even make some use of my medical knowledge while writing them but not really that much. Not keen on writing screenplays for House!

Maybe after I graduate and finish my training and have some cash, I'll take a couple of years off to learn filmmaking and then I might slowly move away from the hardcore medicine to more voluntary stuff like in 3rd world countries. Should give me enough free time to write books and make a couple of films...

Jazzy

read a lot of george orwell

Spiritoftheseventies

Jazzy wrote: »

read a lot of george orwell

why him?

Antilles

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

why him?

Because suggesting people read more Orwell is safe and makes you sound smart.

Personally, I'm not sure why reading any given author would make any given wannabe author a better writer. George Orwell isn't going to help me if I want to write chick lit. Ross O'Carroll-Kelly isn't going to help me if I want to write sprawling Russian epics.

Read more. Write more. Edit more. That's really all there is to it.

-- though you should definitely read more Orwell

Spiritoftheseventies

Antilles wrote: »

Because suggesting people read more Orwell is safe and makes you sound smart.

Personally, I'm not sure why reading any given author would make any given wannabe author a better writer. George Orwell isn't going to help me if I want to write chick lit. Ross O'Carroll-Kelly isn't going to help me if I want to write sprawling Russian epics.

Read more. Write more. Edit more. That's really all there is to it.

-- though you should definitely read more Orwell

Well reading more is definitely a very good idea but each writer has his own style. Not sure about the editing part. Sometimes the first draft is the best. If you keep changing it you get away from the soul of the work.
A good writer I think will always be clear what he wants to write in his first draft. The rest is down to just keeping the copy tight and readable.
Talent of course goes a long way aswell

Jazzy

Antilles wrote: »

Because suggesting people read more Orwell is safe and makes you sound smart.

word usage, sentence structure, paragraph length, scene description, character purpose, story progression - its all there and Ive never read from any writer who does it better then Orwell. A lot of basic stuff that you can pick up by analysing and re-reading his work. So yeah, it is safe and smart to suggest reading Orwell to someone who is looking to become a better writer and doesnt really know how because its about getting those first steps right.

But maybe you wanted to sound smarter then by saying that?

Spiritoftheseventies

Jazzy wrote: »

word usage, sentence structure, paragraph length, scene description, character purpose, story progression - its all there and Ive never read from any writer who does it better then Orwell. A lot of basic stuff that you can pick up by analysing and re-reading his work. So yeah, it is safe and smart to suggest reading Orwell to someone who is looking to become a better writer and doesnt really know how because its about getting those first steps right.

But maybe you wanted to sound smarter then by saying that?

Fair play Jazzy. You actually articulated your thoughts well there (apart from last line) Hope for you yet

Jazzy

are you my shadow?

Spiritoftheseventies

Took the words right out my mouth. Have posted here before Jazzy. Try to stay on topic

ToasterSparks

I agree with Antilles - read lots but I don't think that any specific author will tell you anything you won't see in other books.

And when you are 'reading' books, you might want to actually normally read the book first and then go back and re-read it as a writer, because it's a totally different approach to reading. It's hard to enjoy a book when you're thinking about chapter structure, flow of dialogue and plot mechanics.

Jazzy

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Fair play Jazzy. You actually articulated your thoughts well there (apart from last line) Hope for you yet

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Took the words right out my mouth. Have posted here before Jazzy. Try to stay on topic

how in good f**k are you not seeing how over whelmingly hypocritical you are? at this stage I can only question your intellegence tbh, its either that or you are just crazy.

Antilles

Jazzy wrote: »

But maybe you wanted to sound smarter then by saying that?

Yep, that's why I finished up also reccomending people read George Orwell ;P

Spiritoftheseventies

If i could recommend one author to anyone it would be Raymond Carver. There is nothing put on about him at all.

Antilles

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

If i could recommend one author to anyone it would be Raymond Carver. There is nothing put on about him at all.

Carver is great. Orwell is great. Stylistically, I really love Cormac McCarthy too, but how does reading Author X help somebody become a better writer? The only thing you learn from reading the works of Author X is how to do a pastiche of Author X.

If you want to improve your writing, you need to read a wide range of authors, so you can see lots of different ways to do it.

EileenG

And to go back to basics, keep writing. Reading is essential, but if you are not writing as well, you don't read as critically.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yeah I use the example of Raymond Carver because he is just so naturally gifted. The words jump off the page.
I think the two main things you need are a good work ethic and to love what you do. Read about most writers and they had a set regime.
They usually get up very early in the morning. And there are plenty of good workshops around as well.

Spiritoftheseventies

Jazzy wrote: »

how in good f**k are you not seeing how over whelmingly hypocritical you are? at this stage I can only question your intellegence tbh, its either that or you are just crazy.

Again Jazzy stay on topic. Are you going to start an argument on every thread. Cut it out. Last time I'm going to say it to you:(

AnCatDubh

Please keep on topic everyone - any personal grievances / vendettas / or disagreements of a personality conflict nature is not appropriate for airing on the forum. If you have an issue with another users posts then please use the report post function.

Thank you.

MikeC101

Antilles wrote: »

Carver is great. Orwell is great. Stylistically, I really love Cormac McCarthy too, but how does reading Author X help somebody become a better writer? The only thing you learn from reading the works of Author X is how to do a pastiche of Author X.

Generally when someone says that reading Author X will make you a better writer, really all they're saying is "I think Author X is a good writer." That holds true for almost everything of course.

Antilles wrote: »

If you want to improve your writing, you need to read a wide range of authors, so you can see lots of different ways to do it.

What I've found good in this regard is to read up on an author you really like, and find who or what they cite as their influences. Then try that again with the new authors, and so on. It's led me to some interesting stuff, and I think can help avoid the trap of falling into writing in the style of whoever you're currently reading, because it gives you a more rounded idea of your favourite author.

(currently reading The Monk , written in 1796, and it's pretty damn good!)

Antilles

It's led me to some interesting stuff, and I think can help avoid the trap of falling into writing in the style of whoever you're currently reading, because it gives you a more rounded idea of your favourite author.

Haha, I've fallen into that trap a few times myself! I think reading the people who influenced your favourite authors is a good idea for finding stuff you will like yourself. Lots of my favourite authors mention that Michael Moorcock was an influence on them, so I started reading him and surprise surprise (not really), I love his stuff.

The key, I suppose, is to find authors that you like, study what makes them great before trying to use it in your own writing. If you hate Orwell, you'll get no benefit from his writing because whatever it is that makes people think he's great, its not your thing. All you will gain from it is the ability to write like somebody who doesn't like Orwell doing an impression of Orwell.