Lenihan finds €1.3bn in the back of the drawer

Sponge Bob

And he generously promised that to Greece over the next three years.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0502/greece.html

I would think it will be higher, maybe even €1.7bn in the end.

Liam Byrne

It's annoying, but the bottom line is that we will probably be in the same boat by this time next year, so we can't be seen to complain about it.

dunsandin

Brian just nipped around to Mary O'Rourkes and borrowed it out of her biscuit tin when she was putting the cat out. He has been doing that since he was a nipper. Old habits die hard.

changes

1.3 billion.... thats the magical figure that was dragged kicking and screaming from the Public servants.

rightwingdub

We have no right to be whingeing about bailing out the Greeks It could be Ireland in receipt of a EU/IMF bailout next year.

Max Power1

changes wrote: »

1.3 billion.... thats the magical figure that was dragged kicking and screaming from the Public servants.

Jees if they think its bad now in the PS, imagine what it will be like in 2011 - Ireland will have to take a similar deal to what Greece is now. They have had to slash PS pay!

ei.sdraob

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/7671505/Unlike-the-Greeks-the-Irish-are-facing-up-to-their-plight.html

the Greeks were seen waving

"Greece is not Ireland" banners :eek:

and we are giving these people 1.3 billion

FFS

rightwingdub

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/7671505/Unlike-the-Greeks-the-Irish-are-facing-up-to-their-plight.html

the Greeks were seen waving

"Greece is not Ireland" banners :eek:

and we are giving these people 1.3 billion

FFS

We have no right to be whingeing about the Greeks, FG and Labour have said that they will support a bailout.

ei.sdraob

rightwingdub wrote: »

We have no right to be whingeing about the Greeks, FG and Labour have said that they will support a bailout.

We have every right to tell them to cup the **** on (especially considering Greece committed fraud in order to enter the euro)

When they implement cuts on the same scale as Ireland and reform things like retirement age to be like ours

then we should start talking about handing money over


any money being given to Greece now is like handing heroin to a junkie, it wont fix the problem but postpone the day it will have to be solved

rightwingdub

ei.sdraob wrote: »

We have every right to tell them to cup the **** on (especially considering Greece committed fraud in order to enter the euro)

When they implement cuts on the same scale as Ireland and reform things like retirement age to be like ours

then we should start talking about handing money over


any money being given to Greece now is like handing heroin to a junkie, it wont fix the problem but postpone the day it will have to be solved

Ireland is hardly a bastion of ethical behaviour when it comes to corruption in our political and banking system.

The cutbacks that the government has implemented is nowhere near enough, at least €8 billion in cutbacks will need to be made in the next budget.

The government hasn't increased the retirement age yet to 68 all they have done is issue a discussion paper but no action has been taken so far as regards legislation.

The Greeks should have to increase the retirement age to 70, cut social welfare, slash the numbers employed in the public sector by 30%, privatise every state owned company.

ei.sdraob

rightwingdub wrote: »

Ireland is hardly a bastion of ethical behaviour when it comes to corruption in our political and banking system.

The cutbacks that the government has implemented is nowhere near enough, at least €8 billion in cutbacks will need to be made in the next budget.

The government hasn't increased the retirement age yet to 68 all they have done is issue a discussion paper but no action has been taken so far as regards legislation.

The Greeks should have to increase the retirement age to 70, cut social welfare, slash the numbers employed in the public sector by 30%, privatise every state owned company.

two wrongs dont make a right

the Greeks dont want to face up to the fact that they are alot poorer than they thought (were made to believe). sounds familiar?

they need to face up to the music now and implement their "austerity"

there are only 3 options for them:


1, leave euro > would potential destroy the healthy bits of the economy in a bank run


2, beg for money and postpone all of this for another day


3, cutback now an



the ideal option would be a combination of 2 & 3, but of course they dont want #3, they want the carrots but no sticks

rightwingdub

ei.sdraob wrote: »

two wrongs dont make a right

the Greeks dont want to face up to the fact that they are alot poorer than they thought (were made to believe). sounds familiar?

they need to face up to the music now and implement their "austerity"

there are only 3 options for them:


1, leave euro > would potential destroy the healthy bits of the economy in a bank run


2, beg for money and postpone all of this for another day


3, cutback now an



the ideal option would be a combination of 2 & 3, but of course they dont want #3, they want the carrots but no sticks

I actually don't think the EU/IMF package is severe enough in my opinion, the EU/IMF should have been a lot tougher on the Greeks.

Liam Byrne

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the ideal option would be a combination of 2 & 3, but of course they dont want #3, they want the carrots but no sticks

Sounds very like Anglo to me.......and what's worse is that "our" government abide by their agenda all the way, with Cowen washing his hands of every pay rise, bonus and undeserved allowance every step of the way......

blue_steel

ei.sdraob wrote: »

two wrongs dont make a right

the Greeks dont want to face up to the fact that they are alot poorer than they thought (were made to believe). sounds familiar?

they need to face up to the music now and implement their "austerity"

there are only 3 options for them:


1, leave euro > would potential destroy the healthy bits of the economy in a bank run


2, beg for money and postpone all of this for another day


3, cutback now an



the ideal option would be a combination of 2 & 3, but of course they dont want #3, they want the carrots but no sticks

Option 1 all the way. Default on the debt and go it alone. It worked well for Argentina in 2002 (dispite the IMF claiming the country would cease to exist within six months - shows you what they know). The path being taken now will only benefit vested financial interests and not the Greek people. But the last thing the EU care about these days is people.

longhalloween

Convenient that everyone forgets the billions the EU invested in Ireland to build infrastructure and fund public works and drag this country out of the hole it was in back in the 80's.

Anyways all this money would be borrowed from the IMF at under 5% and lent to the greeks at 7%. Provided they pay it back we're in the money, and if they dont, at least this country looks generous and tries to help those who helped us in the past.

ei.sdraob

longhalloween wrote: »

Convenient that everyone forgets the billions the EU invested in Ireland to build infrastructure and fund public works and drag this country out of the hole it was in back in the 80's.

Anyways all this money would be borrowed from the IMF at under 5% and lent to the greeks at 7%. Provided they pay it back we're in the money, and if they dont, at least this country looks generous and tries to help those who helped us in the past.

you are so wrong its not funny :rolleyes:

IMF is only providing 15 out of the 110 billion

we here in Ireland will have to borrow 1.3 billion at ~5% and hand it over to the Greeks at 5%

Anita Blow

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you are so wrong its not funny :rolleyes:

IMF is only providing 15 out of the 110 billion

we here in Ireland will have to borrow 1.3 billion at ~5% and hand it over to the Greeks at 5%

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/taxpayers-will-borrow-836413bn-to-aid-greece-2162404.html
The IMF is providing 30 billion

ei.sdraob

Anita Blow wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/taxpayers-will-borrow-836413bn-to-aid-greece-2162404.html
The IMF is providing 30 billion

thanks
I wonder how they managed that one
only few days ago they were saying max the IMF can give is 15billion

anyways @longhalloween is still way off on his %ages for interest

DidierMc

€1.3billion? So this is what it means to be at the heart of europe.

Anita Blow

DidierMc wrote: »

€1.3billion? So this is what it means to be at the heart of europe.

Yep it is! It's nice to know that if we get in a similiar mess that other debt-ridden eurozone countries would still make the effort to help us out too.

ei.sdraob

Anita Blow wrote: »

Yep it is! It's nice to know that if we get in a similiar mess that other debt-ridden eurozone countries would still make the effort to help us out too.

i hope you are right, because Greece will burn thru this money in less than 3 years

the future for the PIIGS aint looking good, with so much debt

and yes that is close to 2 trillion euro in total...

SkepticOne

I think everyone here realises that the NAMA "bad bank" is a well thought through plan and not, as cynics suggest, a means of passing on problems to future generations in order to avoid dealing with them now.

Given this, couldn't we set up a sort of "bad country" where the rubbish bits of Greece, Ireland and the other PIIG countries could be transferred.

I'm sure the Germans would have no problem paying the "long term economic value" for these "assets". Sure in a few years everything will be back to normal and they'll make a grand bit of profit.

thebman

Our contribution to this is a drop in the ocean considering the amounts required and is a more a token geasture that we agree that this is something the members of the Monetary Union should do.

We all know we are most likely to soon follow after if we don't get some hard decisions soon and so it is important that we show that we think this is the way the EU should move forward and deal with member states in trouble.

blue_steel

Cash strapped Ireland borrow 1.3 billion which we then loan to Greece so they can keep borrowing more money. Somebody, somewhere in the food chain is making a lot of money from this.

AlekSmart

Somebody, somewhere in the food chain is making a lot of money from this.

Hmmmm....how is little Israel doing these days..?

Any word on the Shekel needing a bit of a punt up...?

dRNk SAnTA

It's funny, I have a hunch that a lot of people in Ireland think "the EU" is a group of foreigners who can magic money out of nothing whenever we want it.

Does everybody realise that all the years when we were getting billions from the EU, it was actually coming from other members states and their tax payers. Now look at people moan because we're in a situation where we need to provide some money to help a fellow member state which, if it were to fail, would have grave consequences for all of the Eurozone and particularly Ireland.

Pretty selfish!

SkepticOne

Someone made a post on another thread which was not intended to be totally serious but is actually very apt.

If the Greeks are going to default (and there's a considerable body of opinion that says that is inevitable), shouldn't we and other countries be telling them to default now rather than borrow all this money (albeit at a favourable rate) only to default later.

They won't be any worse off if they default now rather than in say three years but the countries lending to them would be better off to the tune of 110 billion.

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/7671505/Unlike-the-Greeks-the-Irish-are-facing-up-to-their-plight.html

the Greeks were seen waving

"Greece is not Ireland" banners :eek:

and we are giving these people 1.3 billion

FFS

We have no bloody choice.
If Greece goes tits up which i think it will anyway, the Euro is in deep trouble.
The Greeks (public sector workers anyway as some Greeks actually have the cop on to know they are badlly run and a screw up) no matter what way they go are in for a sharp dose of reality.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

We have every right to tell them to cup the **** on (especially considering Greece committed fraud in order to enter the euro)

When they implement cuts on the same scale as Ireland and reform things like retirement age to be like ours

then we should start talking about handing money over


any money being given to Greece now is like handing heroin to a junkie, it wont fix the problem but postpone the day it will have to be solved

And the Germans have every right to tell us go f*** ourselves as well.
Remember that.

Actually here to cheer up why not put your feet into the shoes of a hard working frugal cautious German taxpayer who is now expected to bail out all the incompetent, corrupt, spendthrifts in the EU.

If today was yesterday I wonder how many Germans would have dumped the mark in favour of a currency whose health depends on Italians, Greeks, Portguese, Spaniards and paddies ?

longhalloween wrote: »

Convenient that everyone forgets the billions the EU invested in Ireland to build infrastructure and fund public works and drag this country out of the hole it was in back in the 80's.

Anyways all this money would be borrowed from the IMF at under 5% and lent to the greeks at 7%. Provided they pay it back we're in the money, and if they dont, at least this country looks generous and tries to help those who helped us in the past.

Here is interesting point.
AFAIK we are going to put more money into "saving" Anglo than we recieved in structural funds from the EU down the years. :mad:
Comforting isn't it ? :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you are so wrong its not funny :rolleyes:

IMF is only providing 15 out of the 110 billion

we here in Ireland will have to borrow 1.3 billion at ~5% and hand it over to the Greeks at 5%

And once again think if you are German.
They are forking out most of that 110 billion and for what ?
They had a better plan in 1941 for dealing with the Greeks when they got to run the place.

The reason the EU is trying to keep it primarily in house is trying to protect the Euro which I believe is now doomed.

ei.sdraob

jmayo wrote: »

And the Germans have every right to tell us go f*** ourselves as well.
Remember that.

an they should

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

an they should

We know they should but we all hope they won't.

DidierMc

Anita Blow wrote: »

Yep it is! It's nice to know that if we get in a similiar mess that other debt-ridden eurozone countries would still make the effort to help us out too.

Errr we are forcing them to cut their wages and public services, how is this help?

ei.sdraob

DidierMc wrote: »

Errr we are forcing them to cut their wages and public services, how is this help?

It means they have to borrow less (fingers crossed) and hopefully buy them some time to get act together (now whether that will happen...)

that helps them in the long-term

DidierMc

ei.sdraob wrote: »

It means they have to borrow less (fingers crossed) and hopefully buy them some time to get act together (now whether that will happen...)

that helps them in the long-term

Do they not have to pay us back with interest?

ei.sdraob

DidierMc wrote: »

Do they not have to pay us back with interest?

5% is less than 12%

DidierMc

ei.sdraob wrote: »

5% is less than 12%

So because the EU/IMF is lending to them at a lower rate then they have the right to make their budgets for them? ie cut wages and public services and prioritise payments to bondholders so that the international market will regain confidence? Is Greece even a soverign nation anymore?

ei.sdraob

DidierMc wrote: »

So because the EU/IMF is lending to them at a lower rate then they have the right to tell them how to spend it?

yes

the Greeks of course can give back the 110 billion

i wonder how will their public servants be paid then... :cool:

Boskowski

ei.sdraob wrote: »

We have every right to tell them to cup the **** on (especially considering Greece committed fraud in order to enter the euro)

When they implement cuts on the same scale as Ireland and reform things like retirement age to be like ours

then we should start talking about handing money over


any money being given to Greece now is like handing heroin to a junkie, it wont fix the problem but postpone the day it will have to be solved

Lol, seriously...

I don't know how we got to the point that our 'measures' are being perceived as serious and got us in a position to call ourselves a good example of facing the storm or something. Because quite frankly our 'measures' are laughable and on half of them we're backpaddling for Ireland.
With all the fuzz over last years budget and savings and whatnot I'd be amazed if at the end of the fiscal year when things are being reviewed a single Euro of actual savings was made.
We cannot afford to point our finger at anyone.

ei.sdraob

Boskowski wrote: »

Lol, seriously...

I don't know how we got to the point that our 'measures' are being perceived as serious and got us in a position to call ourselves a good example of facing the storm or something. Because quite frankly our 'measures' are laughable and on half of them we're backpaddling for Ireland.
With all the fuzz over last years budget and savings and whatnot I'd be amazed if at the end of the fiscal year when things are being reviewed a single Euro of actual savings was made.
We cannot afford to point our finger at anyone.

I actually agree with you

which is why we should be making noise about giving this money away

there's a good chance we will never see it again, at a time when we need it ourselves

Boskowski

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I actually agree with you

which is why we should be making noise about giving this money away

there's a good chance we will never see it again, at a time when we need it ourselves

Ye but if there is any chance we will be the beggars any time soon (and I believe there is) then we obviously can't deny Greece this money now. Look at it as our ticket for our very own possible bailout. I'm pretty sure that's how the government views it.

Edit: See the issue is much wider than Greece at the moment. Greece is only a symptom of a sick Eurozone. This is not about saving Greece. This is about saving the EU and the Eurozone.

ei.sdraob

Boskowski wrote: »

Ye but if there is any chance we will be the beggars any time soon (and I believe there is) then we obviously can't deny Greece this money now. Look at it as our ticket for our very own possible bailout. I'm pretty sure that's how the government views it.

Edit: See the issue is much wider than Greece at the moment. Greece is only a symptom of a sick Eurozone. This is not about saving Greece. This is about saving the EU and the Eurozone.

And that's where I disagree with you
if the EUrozone starts to unravel
there wont be any money left for Ireland

the PIIGS need 2 trillion of financing in next 3-4 years, I hope that puts the scale of the problem into perspective




also the fact that the Greeks have taken the money but are refusing "austerity" measures, just shows how "serious" they are about resolving this problem, hence why I believe its a bad move, tho yes I see and understand your point

/

me_right_one

Sponge Bob wrote: »

And he generously promised that to Greece over the next three years.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0502/greece.html

I would think it will be higher, maybe even €1.7bn in the end.

Its a good thing he did, isn't it!!!!!