It's now May; so where is the Mahon Tribunal Report

Liam Byrne

Final Mahon report likely in early 2010
FIONA GARTLAND

THE MAHON tribunal has said it is likely to issue its final report in the early months of 2010, barring unforeseen circumstances.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0828/1224253403766.html

I know its terms of reference were relatively narrow, but surely we should get the results when promised, especially given the goings-on re turning blind eyes to planning and banking regulation and FF-friendly developers that have been exposed since the recession started ?

Will we have the results before the next general election, or the presidential election ?

flutered

use your head

Cookie_Monster

barring unforeseen circumstances

I guess we've had some of these then...

Darsad

I heard Ocallaghan was challenging everything in an effort to delay the final report from being issued to give his pal Bertie a chance to have a run for the park, but that is probably money wasted at this stage and hopefully Mahon will be suitably pissed off even more and produce a report that roundly condems both of them in equal measure.

Laminations

I'd love to get Mario Rosenstock to ring O'Callaghan with his best Bertie impression saying

'Ay, what have ya told them Owen, I got leaks from this report that you spilled the beans....etc'

What a devious way to get a full unintentional confession from O'Callaghan. In my dreams

Liam Byrne

Laminations wrote: »

I'd love to get Mario Rosenstock to ring O'Callaghan with his best Bertie impression saying

'Ay, what have ya told them Owen, I got leaks from this report that you spilled the beans....etc'

What a devious way to get a full unintentional confession from O'Callaghan. In my dreams

....and do it live on air too !!!!!

CLASS!!!!!!

Laminations

Liam Byrne wrote: »

....and do it live on air too !!!!!

CLASS!!!!!!

Yep. I'd love to hear him fall for it live on radio.
It'd be funnier than that radio prank where the wife puts her foot in it.

Liam Byrne

Still no sign of this ?

Laminations

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Still no sign of this ?

It's another issue that the media are not chasing up enough. But what does it matter what Mahon says, Bertie will brush it off like he still does his mismanagement at the helm and his responsibility for the recession. He is a real piece of work. Bertie deserves no less then CAB to strip him of his pension (an ill-gotten gain) and FG (when in power) stripping him of his ex-Taoiseach privileges, he can live off his daughter rather than the taxpayer.

gandalf

Ah you can't have another report that is critical of major members of the governing party coming out this week as well. That is just not fair

They are probably stringing it out until the Summer recess of the Dail to avoid too many hard questions.

Pittens

The Mahon report is surely not just about Bertie, now is it? If so it is a horrible waste of time and taxpayer's money. The terms of reference were to investigate planning and rezoning in Dublin Corporation, in fact Bertie has a right to complain that it ever investigated him since the issue of payments to him didnt seem to involve anything to so with planning, or Dublin Corporation, as he was Minister for Finance at the time.

So lets hope that Mahon has lots of dirt on planning in Dublin, and when we recover the money we recover more than what was spent on the tribunal.

Liam Byrne

Pittens wrote: »

in fact Bertie has a right to complain that it ever investigated him since the issue of payments to him didnt seem to involve anything to so with planning, or Dublin Corporation, as he was Minister for Finance at the time.

If you give 5 conflicting stories to a court or a tribunal (or even a Garda) you've only yourself to blame if they look at you more closely.

And if - having looked at you more closely - they find loads of unexplained cash, then they're well within their rights to demand a straight answer.

So it's Ahern's own fault if he raised suspicion.

Biggins

Its like every other report that shows the farce that is FF, its methods and shows up some of its members, its a report that will be stalled and/or ignored and/or bring about avoidance tactics and/or delayed discussion.

To sum up, the report will be another opportunity for standard Fianna Fail to wordlessly smirk and say to themselves: "So what, ya can do nothing and we are/still will be looked after handsomely between money, perks and pensions!"

paddyland

Pittens wrote: »

The Mahon report is surely not just about Bertie, now is it? If so it is a horrible waste of time and taxpayer's money. The terms of reference were to investigate planning and rezoning in Dublin Corporation, in fact Bertie has a right to complain that it ever investigated him since the issue of payments to him didnt seem to involve anything to so with planning, or Dublin Corporation, as he was Minister for Finance at the time.

There IS one very serious allegation relating Bertie to planning irregularities. It is an allegation, and it is up to the tribunal to investigate it. However, getting witnesses to testify what they know is another thing.

Pittens

So it's Ahern's own fault if he raised suspicion.

I am dubious about tribunals, or special prosecutors who go past their original remit. In any case lets see if the Mahon report is worth it. Well, already we know it isn't.

Lets use the police in future. Cheaper.

Liam Byrne

Pittens wrote: »

I am dubious about tribunals, or special prosecutors who go past their original remit. In any case lets see if the Mahon report is worth it. Well, already we know it isn't.

How do you know they've gone past their original remit ?

If anything, I believe that Ahern will get off scot-free, not because he's innocent of anything, but because whatever dodgy activities he was up to are outside the remit of the tribunal.

And before anyone accuses me of being biased or throwing accusations around, the above is based 100% on the fact that a supposed "Minister for Finance" (definition : good with accounting for money) has no recollection of money he received that was in excess of a year's salary.

Five different explanations for same means something's rotten in the state of Drumcondra.

But - like I said - it's probably not going to be "proven" and/or it's going to be outside the remit of the report.

As for you being dubious, well I'm open to correction but I believe it was Ahern that set up the tribunal in the first place ?

I'd agree, though.....it should be done a lot less expensively, but then that would require people actually co-operating with the tribunal and not going back 5 times with (at least 4) different works of fiction, and whinging about being "victimised" after their lies were exposed.

Pittens

How do you know they've gone past their original remit ?

The remit was an investigation into the activities of members of Dublin Corporation/ Council as councillors with regards to planning.

Bertie took money, admittedly untaxed, as minister for finance. I am not sure what exactly the reason to investigate this was unless the accusation was he allowed some re-zoning to take place because of the money, by leaning on corporation members. Otherwise it was a tax issue. Why not investigate all tax issues then, they could go on for ever.

in any case if the Mahon tribunal costs more than it gets back, it is pointless.

Liam Byrne

Pittens wrote: »

The remit was an investigation into the activities of members of Dublin Corporation/ Council as councillors with regards to planning.

Bertie took money, admittedly untaxed, as minister for finance. I am not sure what exactly the reason to investigate this was unless the accusation was he allowed some re-zoning to take place because of the money, by leaning on corporation members. Otherwise it was a tax issue. Why not investigate all tax issues then, they could go on for ever.

If you "are not sure", then please either (a) ask or (b) educate yourself on the background to the tribunal before commenting.

Firstly, Ray Burke was caught rotten, despite Ahern claiming that he "looked up every tree in North Dublin" and found nothing objectionable about Burke. Why did Ahern say this ? It immediately cast a shadow over Ahern.

There were direct allegations that Ahern had accepted money from Owen O'Callaghan - which was directly within the remit of the tribunal.

Thirdly, Ahern hung his secretary out to dry in relation to a sterling lodgment.

Pittens wrote: »

in any case if the Mahon tribunal costs more than it gets back, it is pointless.

Really ? So you view, for example, a murder trial, as "pointless" if it only finds out who's guilty and deals with them, and doesn't get any money back to offset its costs ?

If - and to be fair I doubt this would happen - the tribunal exposes all of the corruption in FF for all to see, then it will have been worth it, even if it didn't get any money back.

However......

The Tribunal had cost the State €27 million by 2002 but €34.5 million was recovered by the Revenue Commissioners and the Criminal Assets Bureau

Source : http://www.mahontribunal.com (not that hard to find, really)

fontanalis

Shur who needs a report, there's loads of big words in it. This Fine Gael thing is better gas lads.

Liam Byrne

Call me sceptical, but given the "on hols" excuse last week, I'd nearly put money on this report being released the week before the Dáil goes on hols.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong.

Pittens

If you "are not sure", then please either (a) ask or (b) educate yourself on the background to the tribunal before commenting.

Are you modding the forum, now. My use of the phrase "I am not sure" was - as used - as implying that I was sure that they went outside their remit. Which was Dublin corporation.

I have no issue with the police, or revenue investigating Aherne - in fact where are they? I have an issue with endless tribunals going outside their remit. That is not in the interests of the taxpayer. Getting the money back, which revenue is empowered to do is.

The Tribunal had cost the State €27 million by 2002 but €34.5 million was recovered by the Revenue Commissioners and the Criminal Assets Bureau

I wonder why that stopped in 2002? Anything stirring since?

However why not use only the Revenue Comissioners and the CAB in future, since they are empowered to arrest, and seize money. We have a police force, we dont need lawyers to investigate endlessly activities that are illegal in law.

Liam Byrne

Pittens wrote: »

Are you modding the forum, now.

No, I was being helpful.

Pittens wrote: »

My use of the phrase "I am not sure" was - as used - as implying that I was sure that they went outside their remit.

So you say "I am not sure" when you are sure ? No wonder you confused me!

If Ahern had come clean day one, instead of wasting the tribunal's time and our money (that you seem to object to being wasted) then there would have been no cause to investigate him further.

Pittens wrote: »

Which was Dublin corporation.

Which included the alleged payment by Owen O'Callaghan, and since Ahern couldn't explain his finances, it was only right and fair that they investigate that,

Pittens wrote: »

I wonder why that stopped in 2002? Anything stirring since?

Well, if we'd been issued the report as promised we might have had up-to-date information. You'll have to take that up with them.

Also, a small side-point. There are no "police" in this country.

Liam Byrne

An additional 10 weeks have passed since my original question, and we're soon heading into August.....

Anyone have any idea what the story is with the Mahon Report ?

Liam Byrne

Another 4 months gone since I last mentioned this, and still no sign of it.

Is this yet another legacy to the pointless waste, or does anyone think we'll even get a report listing those who were involved in corruption ?

And surely those who are safe in the knowledge that they are 100% innocent should be clamouring for the findings in order to clear the cloud hanging over their reputations ?

Coming out next week apparently