WC 2011

Bugnug

I thought it might be fun to pick your world cup starting 15 and look back in a 18 months and see how it compares. Here goes

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. Toner
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Sean O Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

thomond2006

Healy
Flannery
Buckley (It'll be Hayes )
Cullen
POC
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
TOL
Sexton
Fitzgerald
BOD
Earls
Bowe
Kearney

unplayable

Healy
Flannery
Buckley

DOC
POC

Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip

O'Leary
Sexton

Fitz
BOD
Earls
Bowe
Kearney

Cronin
Court
Cullen
Leamy
Redden
O'Gara
Trimble

PhatPiggins

Bugnug wrote: »

I thought it might be fun to pick your world cup starting 15 and look back in a 18 months and see how it compares. Here goes

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. Toner
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Sean O Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

chris85

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. DOC (Cullen is close in my books tbh)
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. BOD
13 Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

I think it will be BOD with the 13 jersey but playing at 12. I also believe Earls will be big player in this team. Will be interesting to see how Fitzgerald gets on when he comes back. O'leary also has been epic at scrumhalf but i think also that stringer should be on the bench as he provides a different style with cleaner passing and a wealth of experience, just not as physical as O'leary.

Any news when Fitz is back?

irishbucsfan

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Buckley (I'm going to guess Hayes won't make it.)
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. TOL
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Best
17. Court
18. Cullen
19. SOB
20. Boss
21. O'Gara
22. Earls

Also in squad:
Ross, Horan, Best, Tuohy, Ryan, KMcL, Henry, Reddan, Wallace, Trimble, Carr, Murphy

Edit: Forgot Leo Cullen first time!

inbodwetrust

Saw Fitzgerald walking unaided at the ucd ball and he looked like he had got bigger physically so must of been doing gym work while he was out . Id say Leinster will let him get a full pre season under his belt before they play him again

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 Bod
11 Fitzgerald
10 Sexton
9 O Leary
8 Heaslip
7 Wallace
6 Ferris
5 Doc
4 Poc
3 Court
2 Flannery
1 Horan

A player to keep an eye on is Frank Murphy I was very impressed with him agaisnt Toulon looked good in defence and his passed as old fashioned as it sounds always had the outhalf running on to it which cant be said about some of other scrum half options

Steyr

Out of Interest whats your views on Ian Humphreys, i rarely see his name mentioned on here.

irishbucsfan

Steyr wrote: »

Out of Interest whats your views on Ian Humphreys, i rarely see his name mentioned on here.

He's not an international player. In fact it seems he's not even trusted in Belfast to start at 10 because of his defensive problems. Don't think we'll ever see him play for Ireland ahead of Sexton or ROG barring a severe injury crisis.

Madworld

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Ross/Andress

4. Cullen/Casey
5. POC

6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton

11. Fitzgerald

12. BOD
13. Bowe

14. Conway
15. Kearney

2040

Bugnug wrote: »

I thought it might be fun to pick your world cup starting 15 and look back in a 18 months and see how it compares. Here goes

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. Toner
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Sean O Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Carr
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

outwest

healy
flan
hayes
poc
doc
ferris
wallace
heaslip
tomas
sexton
fitz
earls
bod
bowe
kearney.

best
horan
leo
jennings
redden
rog
murphy.

that the most likely team

if it was being picked tomoro

horan
flan
hayes
poc
doc
ferris
wallace
heaslip
tomas
sexton/rog
earls
darce
bod
bowe
duffy.

best
healy
leo
muldoon,
redden
wallace
kearney.

in today game u need a sub that can cover a few positions. wallace can cover 12 and 10, sexton and rog only 10. muldoon and duffy is there because because they are both playing extremly well

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's not an international player. In fact it seems he's not even trusted in Belfast to start at 10 because of his defensive problems. Don't think we'll ever see him play for Ireland ahead of Sexton or ROG barring a severe injury crisis.

Agreed and I'd say Kidney thinks the same way, proven when Wallace was selected out of position at 10 ahead of Humphreys for Ireland A before the 6N.

outwest

keatley must be ahead of ian ath this stage. it more to do with his name that people expect to see him the irish team, he is not good enugh

irishbucsfan

outwest wrote: »

muldoon and duffy is there because because they are both playing extremly well

Neither have a hope of getting near the Ireland starting team while playing for Connacht. Perfect example of this being Cronin. Also, Muldoon is never going to beat out Ferris, and Duffy hasn't a hope of beating out Kearney or Murphy.



Also, on another point, neither BOD or Earls will play 12. Not a hope of that happening, it would be a disaster. The 12 jersey will be between Wallace and D'Arcy. If Earls starts it will mean that either 1. Fitzgerald is not as good as he was before the injury and Earls starts ahead of him on the wing, or 2. BOD is injured.

outwest

i dont have muldoon ahead of ferris, i have him on the bench

Kiwi_knock

Would not rule out Johne Murphy, if he is given his chance at Munster he has a good as chance of any to stake his claim to be a first choice winger. Will definetly make the squad anyway with his versatility. Think the starting team will be basically the same as we have now without Hayes.

sock puppet

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Neither have a hope of getting near the Ireland starting team while playing for Connacht. Perfect example of this being Cronin. Also, Muldoon is never going to beat out Ferris, and Duffy hasn't a hope of beating out Kearney or Murphy.



Also, on another point, neither BOD or Earls will play 12. Not a hope of that happening, it would be a disaster. The 12 jersey will be between Wallace and D'Arcy. If Earls starts it will mean that either 1. Fitzgerald is not as good as he was before the injury and Earls starts ahead of him on the wing, or 2. BOD is injured.

I don't know I'd like to see Earls outside BOD in the Summer. If it goes well it is something to consider.

I agree on Fitzgerald at 12 anyway. Remember that disaster of a Lions match him and Earls played together

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Also, on another point, neither BOD or Earls will play 12. Not a hope of that happening, it would be a disaster. The 12 jersey will be between Wallace and D'Arcy. If Earls starts it will mean that either 1. Fitzgerald is not as good as he was before the injury and Earls starts ahead of him on the wing, or 2. BOD is injured.

How in the hell would BOD at inside centre be a disaster?

anonymous_joe

1. Healy
2. Best
3. A wheelbarrow full of bricks. Better than any of our current options.

4. No idea.
5. No idea.

6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

(Sorry for the hideous Leinster bias. But it's not going to change. That 8 from Tipp who played for the U-20s could be in on the bench, same for Jennings and if Leamy's actually fit he'd probably get the nod over McLaughlin.)

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton

11. Fitzgerald
12. No idea
13. Not sure.
14. Bowe

15. Kearney

The four lads I've not picked are fairly obvious. The Munster second-rows and Leinster centres are similar in age.

The World Cup is 18 months away now, and that group of four players is all at the age where decline is certainly beginning, but the pace of it is unknown. Some guys (in any sport) keep playing to a high standard for years, others fade dramatically quickly. It's impossible to know where some of those lads will be in four years time. I'd guess they'll all still be in and around the first team, but no idea.

Lads like Earls, Cave, Spence, Conway, the other dozen or so young Leinster lads who I've not mentioned as well as those lads floating around the academies and U-20s are all clearly quite talented. In 18 months someone like O'Halloran or Conway could well be an international hero or a forgotten ex-pro. Rugby's a ruthless sport.

Bugnug

anonymous_joe wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Best
3. A wheelbarrow full of bricks. Better than any of our current options.

4. No idea.
5. No idea.

6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

(Sorry for the hideous Leinster bias. But it's not going to change. That 8 from Tipp who played for the U-20s could be in on the bench, same for Jennings and if Leamy's actually fit he'd probably get the nod over McLaughlin.)

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton

11. Fitzgerald
12. No idea
13. Not sure.
14. Bowe

15. Kearney

The four lads I've not picked are fairly obvious. The Munster second-rows and Leinster centres are similar in age.

The World Cup is 18 months away now, and that group of four players is all at the age where decline is certainly beginning, but the pace of it is unknown. Some guys (in any sport) keep playing to a high standard for years, others fade dramatically quickly. It's impossible to know where some of those lads will be in four years time. I'd guess they'll all still be in and around the first team, but no idea.

Lads like Earls, Cave, Spence, Conway, the other dozen or so young Leinster lads who I've not mentioned as well as those lads floating around the academies and U-20s are all clearly quite talented. In 18 months someone like O'Halloran or Conway could well be an international hero or a forgotten ex-pro. Rugby's a ruthless sport.

No Ferris at 6???

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

How in the hell would BOD at inside centre be a disaster?

Well I was more thinking of Earls when I thought of the term disaster, but it would be a disaster because we'd be taking one of the best players of all time and playing him out of position, in a position that requires excellence in the only area of the game that BOD is even close to being ordinary.

Worse than that, we have players who are more than capable of playing 12, and who do it regularly. I can never understand why Irish rugby fans underrate D'Arcy so much, when he's such an excellent player.

Earls could well become the most important impact player in the world off the bench for us by then, his pace and versatility mean that he's perfect to fill the 22 jersey until BOD retires.

danthefan

Saw Fitzgerald walking unaided at the ucd ball

Never mind walking, he's back in training with Leinster.

Bugnug

Some interesting ages by the time the WC comes,

David Wallace 35
John Hayes 38
ROG 34
BOD 32

Bugnug

And Jerry Flannery 33

anonymous_joe

Bugnug wrote: »

No Ferris at 6???

I knew I'd forget someone. :pac:

Bugnug

Bugnug wrote: »

Some interesting ages by the time the WC comes,

David Wallace 35
BOD 32
Fla 33

Age is only a number for David Wallace, he's a monster in the tight and brilliant in the loose. Cant see that changing over the next year and a half. BOD is still handy enough and 33 is not old for a hooker. 'Super' Mario Ledesma is proof of that. Its post WC that we can worry about OAP's, not during. Those guys will hold out just fine.

Stev_o

Can we just try some different centre partnerships?? Pretty please even BOD at 12 Earls at 13 or something on the lines of that?? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaassssseeeeeee??
Can we also give a Georgian 20 stone man a Irish passport and shove him in at TH

outwest

what about jamie hagen, he is having a great season at connacht, good scummager too

tolosenc

What I expect to see:
1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. O'Leary
10. O'Gara
11. Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

What I want to see:

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. Sexton (if he sorts out his goal kicking issues)
11. Fitzgerald
12. Earls
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Earls is a big lad, but I feel that if he could bulk up too nearer 100kg and not loose too much of his pace, he'd be indispensable.

PhatPiggins

outwest wrote: »

what about jamie hagen, he is having a great season at connacht, good scummager too

Needs another two seasons and HC exposure. Has real potential but was handed his ass a few times this season

outwest

what is it with player needing hcup experince before making in the irish set up

TheTMO

Its only next year I just can't see the rake of changes people are expecting to happen. Oh and theres no way O'Driscoll will ever be moved to 12.

Most likely

1.Healy
2.Flannery
3.Buckley
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Ferris
7.O'Brien (and thats if he returns from injury to the same player)
8.Heaslip
9.O'Leary
10.Sexton
11.Earls/Fitzgerald
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

16.Cronin
17.Court
18.Cullen
19.Wallace
20.Boss
21.O'Gara
22.Earls/Fitzgerald

Then 8 players just outside the squad : Shane Jennings, Chris Henry, Fionn Carr, Kevin McLaughlin, Marcus Horan, Fergus McFadden, Paddy Wallace, Andrew Trimble

TheTMO

Toulousain wrote: »

Earls is a big lad, but I feel that if he could bulk up too nearer 100kg and not loose too much of his pace, he'd be indispensable.

You want him to put on 2 stone of completely lean muscle in a year? Whatever you do don't use the same masking agents as that horse jockey!

LeeroyJones

I think now we can pick our team on form/a 'horses for courses' basis.

Unlike in 2007 when we had a XV which effectively picked itself give or take two or three positions, we can now have options thankfully around the park.

If there was a probables-v-possibles match for the world cup I'd go for

Probables;
1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9.TOL
10. Sexton

11.Fitzgerald
12.BOD(wearing 13 of course!)
13.Earls
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

Possibles;
1. Horan
2. Cronin
3. (hhmmm) Tim Ryan??
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Henry

9. Reddan
10. ROG

11. Trimble
12. D'Arcy
13. McFadden
14. Carr
15. G Murphy

JustinDee

outwest wrote: »

what is it with player needing hcup experince before making in the irish set up

Its the next level down from international. Obviously players who have shown themselves capable of playing at that level have a greater chance of selection.

outwest

thats the view of irish people, surly if ur playing well in the magners u deserve a shot instead of lads who get 20 mins of an hcup game

thomond2006

outwest wrote: »

surly if ur playing well in the magners u deserve a shot instead of lads who get 20 mins of an hcup game

IMO that's not how the Irish management see it.

Look at Donnacha Ryan, on the bench during the Six Nations despite never starting a Heineken Cup match.

profitius

Healy (if he improves his scrummaging)
Cronin (depends on his throwing ability)
Buckley (if he is getting gametime next season)

Ryan
POC

O'Brien
Ferris
Leamy

Sexton
TOL

Fitz
BOD
Earls
Bowe

Kearney

I've gone for a fairly big, physical team. I rate Leamy higher then Heaslip for doing the basics although Heaslip offers more in attack but during the rugby world cup the matches will be tight. Buckley, Healy and Cronin all are good ball carriers.

Also lets hope theres a few bolters this time next season. Theres always one or two a season and will all the current underage prospects there could well be a few who makes the squad.

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO that's not how the Irish management see it.

Look at Donnacha Ryan, on the bench during the Six Nations despite never starting a Heineken Cup match.

Pity Donnacha Ryan is injured because he miles better then MOD.

JustinDee

outwest wrote: »

thats the view of irish people, surly if ur playing well in the magners u deserve a shot instead of lads who get 20 mins of an hcup game

Its not quite so black and white in a way that if you don't play ERC you're out of the loop.
If you look pretty good in whatever level you're playing and coaches think you stand out enough to warrant a call over another playing in a higher level then it'll happen.
There's no policy or template to follow. Its just logical common sense really.
Obviously you want the best available players who will cope with the rigours of the pinnacle of the sport (international).

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Buckley (It'll be Hayes )
y

I refuse to believe that Kidney is that stubborn or blind to the rapid deterioration in Hayes' game. Unless there is a sudden and spectacular turn-around in his form there is no way he should even be going to the WC, never mind starting in it. I imagine Buckley, for all his faults, will be starting a fair few of the important games for Munster next year and will ease into the Ireland team. It's not like the scrum could get any worse anyway.

profitius wrote:

I rate Leamy higher then Heaslip for doing the basics although Heaslip offers more in attack but during the rugby world cup the matches will be tight.

Which basics would these be?

Leamy is a fantastic 6, but I'm surprised there is anyone who still thinks he's a better 8 than Heaslip.

Edit: As to the team I think will take the field for the RWC, it depends somewhat on the likes of Fitz and Leamy returning fully fit from injuries, but I don't think we'll see any bolters at this stage. Something akin to what took the field for the 6N games, with Buckley ahead of Hayes and Fitz possibly moving into the backline would be what I expect to see. Which is somewhat worrying.

tolosenc

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm surprised there is anyone who still thinks he's a better 8 than Heaslip.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks there is a better 8 than Heaslip in Europe, if not the world.

Toulousain

Toulousain wrote: »

I'm surprised that anyone thinks there is a better 8 than Heaslip in Europe, if not the world.

Hairydonkey and Wycliff Palu are there or thereabouts.

Bugnug

profitius wrote: »

Healy (if he improves his scrummaging)
Cronin (depends on his throwing ability)
Buckley (if he is getting gametime next season)

Ryan
POC

O'Brien
Ferris
Leamy

Sexton
TOL

Fitz
BOD
Earls
Bowe

Kearney

I've gone for a fairly big, physical team. I rate Leamy higher then Heaslip for doing the basics although Heaslip offers more in attack but during the rugby world cup the matches will be tight. Buckley, Healy and Cronin all are good ball carriers.

Also lets hope theres a few bolters this time next season. Theres always one or two a season and will all the current underage prospects there could well be a few who makes the squad.



Pity Donnacha Ryan is injured because he miles better then MOD.

Denis Leamy is an out and out number six at best and to be honest the guy is a bit of a liability, constantly getting isolated and giving away ridiculous penalties. He is well down the pecking order in terms of Ireland these days and how anybody could think for a second that he is better than Jamie Heaslip is just not credible. But then again you also picked Ryan in the second row.:rolleyes:

outwest

Deleted User wrote: »

Hairydonkey and Wycliff Palu are there or thereabouts.

there is also an italian called praisse, and a man called lobbe, both are better 8 then heaslip, then again both are older then him.

jamie hasnt peaked yet

profitius

I said I'd pick the most physical team possible and so Leamy would be ahead of Heaslip.

I've had this discussion about Donnacha Ryan before. Its not his fault he's hasn't gotten many games for Munster. They don't like to change the team much. Ryan has a high workrate, is aggressive and has great hands. He's good enough to play backrow or lock. Some people won't agree but thats ok.

LeeroyJones

profitius wrote: »

I said I'd pick the most physical team possible and so Leamy would be ahead of Heaslip.

I've had this discussion about Donnacha Ryan before. Its not his fault he's hasn't gotten many games for Munster. They don't like to change the team much. Ryan has a high workrate, is aggressive and has great hands. He's good enough to play backrow or lock. Some people won't agree but thats ok.

I'd be confident of Ryan making the World Cup squad for exactly that reason. if you're to take 16 forwards, you need 3 hookers, hence you need someone to cover both backrow and lock.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

I said I'd pick the most physical team possible and so Leamy would be ahead of Heaslip.

Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree but that completely baffles me.

Bugnug

profitius wrote: »

I said I'd pick the most physical team possible and so Leamy would be ahead of Heaslip.

I've had this discussion about Donnacha Ryan before. Its not his fault he's hasn't gotten many games for Munster. They don't like to change the team much. Ryan has a high workrate, is aggressive and has great hands. He's good enough to play backrow or lock. Some people won't agree but thats ok.

The most physical team possible???

Is that why you picked,
Cronin ahead of Flannery
Ryan ahead of DOC
Earls ahead of Darcy

????????????????????????????

profitius

Bugnug wrote: »

The most physical team possible???

Is that why you picked,
Cronin ahead of Flannery
Ryan ahead of DOC
Earls ahead of Darcy

????????????????????????????

When the calls were tight. You have to get the balance right too.

Cronin is more explosive in the loose than Flannery or Best. Ryan is aggressive with a high workrate.

irishbucsfan

profitius wrote: »

When the calls were tight. You have to get the balance right too.

Cronin is more explosive in the loose than Flannery or Best. Ryan is aggressive with a high workrate.

Leamy is an atrocious number 8. It's a ridiculous selection.

Ireland have so many players available to them who are far more natural at 8. Heaslip, Henry, Wallace, Muldoon. Leamy is a great 6 (and could well make the bench in the world cup because of that) but any time he's played 8 he's looked poor, he's doesn't have the skill or the instincts to play well at 8.

Not only that, but the idea that you picked him ahead of Jamie Heaslip, who is one of the best players in the world (nominated for player of the year last year) is just crazy. I don't understand your thinking on that at all.


Donncha Ryan could well make the squad, but I would certainly hope that if DOC and POC are fit that they'll start ahead of him, he offers nothing over either of them. Leo Cullen is a far better option than Ryan any way.

Cronin won't start for Ireland ahead of Flannery or Best unless he leaves Connacht, I can't see that happening.