Where is a site bounday measured from?

bb12

I'm trying to figure out where my site boundary is measured from on the road side. From my site's side there is an approx 3-4 foot bank with trees growing on top which sweeps down into a wide grass ditch which then slopes up to a greassy verge to meet the road on the other side.
ie. site field: bank with trees: grassy ditch: grassy verge: road.

My understanding was that my boundary would be measured from the centre of the bottom of the ditch. However my builder is saying my boundary is measured from the centre of the bank with the trees on it.

This makes no sense to me as I believe I own the trees, but if the boundary is measured from there that would imply the council would half own them also, which doesn't seem right to me.

You often seen tilled farmland along roads which has had their hedges cut to the butt but then there might be a single tree growing out of the opposite bank. I always believed this is because the farmer owns the hedge side of the farmland and cut it to what he wants but the council owns the road side of the ditch and hence the farmer couldn't cut the solitary tree, as it was growing out of the councils side of the ditch.

Does anyone know the answer? Thanks!

Poor Uncle Tom

To see what will need to get a copy of the map attached to your deeds, your solicitor should be able to get this for you. This will show the extent of the site ownership. If the site is in a rural area the site ownership could extend out to midway on the public road.

Mellor

At the risk of coming across cheeky, I'll give a short answer;

Where is the site boundary measured from?

Ans: The boundry, nowhere else, and nothing relates to this

bb12

yes that is cheeky mellor!

let me explain some more...

i have a blockplan which just has a single line dividing my site and the road. the distance to the front of the house is measured from this line. the architect didn't draw in the existing trees/hedge/ditch on either side of the road...just has this line denoting the divide between my site and the road.

now i'm having a difference of opinion with my builder as to what this line actually denotes. is it the boundary between my site or is it supposed to denote the edge of the road.

if it's the boundary of my site where is that boundary located physically. my builder says the middle of the hedge on the bank...however after doing some searching on the internet i've found out that when it comes to a boundary ditch, there is a legal assumption that the boundary is measured from the bottom of the bank on the far side of the ditch. therefore i don't know where my builder was coming from when he was insisting in measuring from the middle of the hedge on the bank on my side.

however, now i'm wondering if the architect actually meant the edge of the road when drawing the blockplan? i fired this architect and don't have a good relationship with him anymore so cannot ring him to ask.

i just want to make sure i get this measurement is correct in case planning come out and measure half way through the build. what do you think they would interpret it as?

where do architects normally measure the distance from the front of the sites to the house? edge of road, centre line of road, boundary ditches etc??

it's definitely not the centre line of the road in this case as he has that marked on the map.

Poor Uncle Tom

If the centre line of the road is shown on the plan, and the boundry is shown on the plan. Then it should be possible to scale the distance from the centre of the road to the boundry and there is a measurement shown from the boundry to the house, therefore it should be possible to get the distance from the centre of the road to the house.

Private Joker

I don't think anyone would be able to give you a definitive answer with out knowing all the facts.
I would , though agree with your builder, that the planting line of the hedgerow would be considered your site boundary , although as stated by a previous poster you may have property rights out to the road centre line. there are a couple of things you should check, firstly , your site layout on your planning application, this would be the most important when it comes to planning. Secondly you should check your folio, which should be with your solicitor and thirdly you should check the os map for your area, this would have been submitted with your planning application.

muffler

Im a little puzzled by all of this. The wording in your posts isn't helping either.

You are asking where your boundary is measured from but surely you mean "where is my boundary"

Why is there a problem between you and your builder regarding a boundary? Even if it was measured from the centre line of a row of trees what bearing do the trees have in all of this or why the need to claim these?

If you are constructing a new house in a rural location will this "boundary" not have to be removed in any event?

Even if you were a couple of feet out regarding the point you would measure your building line from is there any specific problem that would arise as a consequence?

Is your question about building from a boundary or trying to determine the ownership of trees on a boundary?

Sorry for all the questions but Id like to determine the precise nature of your question and the circumstance surrounding it.

however after doing some searching on the internet i've found out that when it comes to a boundary ditch, there is a legal assumption that the boundary is measured from the bottom of the bank on the far side of the ditch.

Thats news to me and assumptions may not be made in law in any event.

bb12

As regards legal assumtions and boundaries, here are some links I came across:
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2009/0117/farmbusiness/business/property.shtml

1. Hedge & ditch
   Where two properties are divided by a hedge and and a drain, then the legal assumption is that the boundary extends to the far side of the drain. This presumption is based on the surmise that the landowner dug a drain at the edge of his own land and placed the spoil from the drain on his land and planted a hedge on it.

http://www.gfconsultants.ie/Civil%20and%20Structural%20Engineering.htm#Boundary_Disputes

1. Hedge and Ditch. Where two properties are divided by a hedge and/or earthen bank and a drain (ditch), then the legal assumption is that the boundary extends to the far side of the ditch from the hedge. This presumption is based on the surmise that the land owner dug a drain (ditch) at the edge of his own land and placed the spoil from the drain on his land inside his drain and planted a hedge on it.

the difference between where my builder wants to measure from (the middle of the hedge on the bank on my side) and where I believe the boundary should be measured from (the far side of the ditch) is about 5 feet, which is 5 feet I want to save for another purpose on the site.

yes my folio map shows ownership to the centre of the road but because my architect didn't measure from the centre line of the road on the block plan, i'm left to try and determine where is the exact point i should measure from as per his drawing, which as i stated earlier is just a single black line with the road on one side and my site on the other. No trees/hedge or ditch is identified on the block plan he drew.

i tried scaling the centre point of the road which he has marked on the block plan, but it's incorrect as if i used that scale the boundary line which he has marked on the site plan would actually be 8 feet inside the hedge line on my site, so would be totally incorrect.

so really i think it's down to interpretation of the site plan. it could possibly even be intrepreted as measuring from the edge of the road.

i'm happy to measure from the far side of the ditch but i really don't know where my builder was going when he was trying to measure from the centre of the hedge on the bank on my side. From living in a rural farming community where property boundaries are important regarding farmland etc, the only time I've ever heard of measuring from a hedge is when there is no ditch involved. As far as I've always been aware, it's always been a different scenario where it's a hedge and a ditch at the boundary as per the legal assumptions above.

I know you're all thinking this is just a few feet, but it matters a great deal to me in this case so I want to get it right before the diggers move in.

Mellor

You are doing this backwards.

The folio map is a legal map
The architects site plan isn't.

The folio shows the boundary.
The site plan shows a line in a spot the architect choose, by the sounds of things, not on the boundary

I'm not sure why you assumed the arch drew the line exactly to the boundary, more likely it's just an indicitive fence line.

In terms of owner ship, you own to the road, where you put the house or fence won't change that

In terms of house placement, put it as close as possible to the archs plan, use known point for reference
Make make sure it's printed at the right scale, don't assume, check a given dimension or scale bar

focus_mad

What Mellor said

It has to be on the Land Registry Map and not what the builders believe it to be?