Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Wille he not go away

«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Pot wrote:
    Unfortunately it is more than possible that he will indeed reurn to cabinet in some future FF administration - look how Ahern brought Beverly Cooper Flynn back into the fold and ensured that RTE licence payers picked up the tab for much of the legal expenses for her ffailed attempt to sue RTE over its program on her activies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Pot Noodle =


    Thats if they get back in again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Pot wrote:
    Thats if they get back in again
    Kenny will probably serve as a one term taoiseach after which FF will be back in some kind of coalition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,659 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    thank you to the green party for voting for him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭tim_holsters


    What a nauseating pompous little man W O'Dea is, these self serving FF cretins still don't get it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Pot Noodle =


    Is that his Mustache his eyebrows coming down for a drink


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Sure all he did was perjure himself. Its only a small thing that shouldn't interfere with him being a legislator or being a barrister.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    What an arrogant jerk.Just as the whole perjury was being forgotten about as we deal with the scandal of the week.He was about to slither into the shadows for a few years but couldn,t keep his big mouth shut.Hows the Garda investigation into his alleged:rolleyes: perjury proceeding!!!.Someone should put paul williams on an exclusive investigation into how its progressing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    "At the end of the day, if it emerges as a result of the inquiry that is being carried on that I did nothing wrong, I'd have every prospect of returning I would suspect, and I would be working very hard in that direction."

    Why would anyone have a problem with that statement . . Surely if it emerges that he did nothing wrong he would have every right to go back into cabinet . .
    kbannon wrote:
    Sure all he did was perjure himself. Its only a small thing that shouldn't interfere with him being a legislator or being a barrister.

    This has been debated at length on here and I have no desire to go back into the details but in the interest of accuracy . .
    - He wasn't charged or convicted of perjury
    - He didn't commit perjury.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    "At the end of the day, if it emerges as a result of the inquiry that is being carried on that I did nothing wrong, I'd have every prospect of returning I would suspect, and I would be working very hard in that direction."

    Why would anyone have a problem with that statement . . Surely if it emerges that he did nothing wrong he would have every right to go back into cabinet . .



    This has been debated at length on here and I have no desire to go back into the details but in the interest of accuracy . .
    - He wasn't charged or convicted of perjury
    - He didn't commit perjury.

    Regardless of whether he was 'convicted,' he behaved absolutely reprehensively, from the day he tried to accuse a political opponent of operating a brothel, to his squawking in court, and his total disrespect for the Dáil. The man is an appalling example of a public representative. We really need better than that in these critical times.

    I could allow that someone argues the Fianna Fáil case to get the country back to rights, but when they persist in defending indefensible cretins like O'Dea, then their whole credibility comes into question, and their argument is scuttled. If you really believe in FF, you should be talking up the next generation, not defending these timeworn bandits.

    You might as well tell us Bertie Ahern was never 'convicted' of anything. I would be very careful about defending THAT particular waster, if you want to retain any shred of credibility for your arguments.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    I think Willie was right to resign (albeit, at the "encouragement" of the Greens), but it was hardly the worst thing that has ever been done by a politician. I'm sure every FF TD has said something similarly derogatory about the shinners at some stage, but had the good sense not to say it to a reporter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    paddyland wrote: »
    Regardless of whether he was 'convicted,' he behaved absolutely reprehensively, from the day he tried to accuse a political opponent of operating a brothel, to his squawking in court, and his total disrespect for the Dáil. The man is an appalling example of a public representative. We really need better than that in these critical times.

    I could allow that someone argues the Fianna Fáil case to get the country back to rights, but when they persist in defending indefensible cretins like O'Dea, then their whole credibility comes into question, and their argument is scuttled. If you really believe in FF, you should be talking up the next generation, not defending these timeworn bandits.

    You might as well tell us Bertie Ahern was never 'convicted' of anything. I would be very careful about defending THAT particular waster, if you want to retain any shred of credibility for your arguments.

    Not defending Willie O'Dea . . just trying to make sure the record is accurate. . He didn't commit perjury and if is shown that he has done nothing wrong he would have every right to campaign for a return for cabinet. . whether or not I, as a FF member would support such a return is a whole different issue . .

    And please, don't tell me what I should and shouldn't do :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Willie O'Dea is definitely not serving FF right now by jumping up and down and waving his arms, he is purely serving himself. A true mark of the man, and for their own future good, FF should move quietly on from these losers as they fall, and let them go, instead of defending them. The best thing FF can do now is ignore him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭UltimateMale


    What a nauseating pompous little man W O'Dea is, these self serving FF cretins still don't get it.
    Sure isn't it bigger cretins that vote them in :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭raindog.promo


    Is it illegal to defame someone running for office?

    If it is, then he did something as opposed to nothing wrong.


    Also, if he resigned, then the government is under no obligation to take him back whatever the results of the investigation?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Pot wrote:
    My God Brass neck or what

    Just checking but, you do realise he's in Fianna Fail, right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Is it illegal to defame someone running for office?

    If it is, then he did something as opposed to nothing wrong.


    Also, if he resigned, then the government is under no obligation to take him back whatever the results of the investigation?

    Who did he defame and when was his conviction . . . ?
    Who said the government have any obligation ?

    And no, I'm not defending Willie O'Dea and I don't support his return to government but this thread is a waste of web-space. All Willie O'Dea has said is that if the Garda investigation proves that he did nothing wrong then he should be entitled to seek a cabinet position again . . a perfectly reasonable position to take and if the mob could park the politicking for a second they would see that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    Who did he defame and when was his conviction . . . ?
    Who said the government have any obligation ?

    And no, I'm not defending Willie O'Dea and I don't support his return to government but this thread is a waste of web-space. All Willie O'Dea has said is that if the Garda investigation proves that he did nothing wrong then he should be entitled to seek a cabinet position again . . a perfectly reasonable position to take and if the mob could park the politicking for a second they would see that.


    What O'Dea did is very serious. He lied on an affidavit to court.
    And was caught redhanded. Only in this country would you get away with it.
    Will the DPP in Limerick go after him? No way

    Its incredible how stupid he was but this is Ireland and makin up cock & bull stories about SFein's is not deemed to be a crime. After all white collar crime in this country doesn't exsist:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Dob74 wrote: »
    What O'Dea did is very serious. He lied on an affidavit to court.
    And was caught redhanded. Only in this country would you get away with it.
    Will the DPP in Limerick go after him? No way

    Its incredible how stupid he was but this is Ireland and makin up cock & bull stories about SFein's is not deemed to be a crime. After all white collar crime in this country doesn't exsist:mad:

    What O'Dea did was a mistake, no doubt . . but to accuse him of perjury you would have to believe that a)he knew / remembered the comments he had made at the time he gave the interview and b) that he deliberately lied about it in his affidavit.

    The journalist to whom the remarks are made has gone on record to say that he had put a microphone under Willie O'Dea's nose. There was nothing hidden . .

    Therefore had O'Dea recalled the interview at the time he swore the affidavit he would also have remembered the recording and his lying would have been a ridiculous risk for a man in his position to take. His own story is far more credible. i.e. when he swore the affidavit he truthfully did not remember the interview. That is why the DPP has not charged him with perjury.

    I presume O'Dea's latest comments about the Garda investigation is an indication that either the allegations about the Shinner were not made up or at least he didn't make them up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    "I had the unusual experience that the Dail actually voted confidence in me at 6pm on a Wednesday evening and within 24 hours I was nevertheless gone from office.

    More half-truths.

    His cronies in Government voted "confidence" in him; those without a vested interest didn't.

    And - just like Ahern, who may not be found "guilty" of anything, what he did was wrong......it may not be illegal, but it was wrong, and he was exposed and should disappear gracefully.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    He was not found guilty so therefore he can expect to become a Minister again. What he did was morally wrong, but morals seem to have no place in politics. FF should not be looking to re-appoint him, no matter his repuatation before the scandal he has tarnished it and does not deserve to represent our country on a world wide stage. He should be happy that FF still associate with him. FF should distance themselves from these comments otherwise it will further affect their image.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭watchingthepols



    I presume O'Dea's latest comments about the Garda investigation is an indication that either the allegations about the Shinner were not made up or at least he didn't make them up.

    No.You are wrong about this. The issue of the Garda investigation into Willie O'Dea alleged perjury & Willie O'Dea's libel against the Shinner are two seperate matters.

    Willie O'Dea has already admitted that the statements he made about the Shinner were false. He has apologised for this and paid damages for the libel. See the link to the RTE news website below. The RTE news report is titled "O'Dea apologises for defamatory statements"

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1221/odeaw.html

    The Garda investigation is in relation to Willie O'Dea swearing a false affidavit to the high court. Willie has already admitted this. The investigation's purpose is to establish if this constitutes perjury.Perjury is very difficult to prove. To be honest, I'd be amazed if this investigation was allowed to go anywhere. Judging by O'Dea's recent comments I'd say that he has got the tip off that it has been sorted for him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    And - just like Ahern, who may not be found "guilty" of anything, what he did was wrong......it may not be illegal, but it was wrong, and he was exposed and should disappear gracefully.

    You have said a mouthful there, there is a rottenness at the core of Irish politics in general and FF in particular which fails to see that spreading malicious rumours about an electoral opponent is wrong.

    The man was shown to be dishonest, to be willing to sink to the gutter and to act with no sense of personal dignity. Yet if he avoids prosecution (or limits it to a private settlement with undisclosed terms) he's clean enough for Cabinet politics.

    How can anyone honestly stand over that position?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    No.You are wrong about this. The issue of the Garda investigation into Willie O'Dea alleged perjury & Willie O'Dea's libel against the Shinner are two seperate matters.

    Willie O'Dea has already admitted that the statements he made about the Shinner were false. He has apologised for this and paid damages for the libel. See the link to the RTE news website below. The RTE news report is titled "O'Dea apologises for defamatory statements"

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1221/odeaw.html

    The Garda investigation is in relation to Willie O'Dea swearing a false affidavit to the high court. Willie has already admitted this. The investigation's purpose is to establish if this constitutes perjury.Perjury is very difficult to prove. To be honest, I'd be amazed if this investigation was allowed to go anywhere. Judging by O'Dea's recent comments I'd say that he has got the tip off that it has been sorted for him.

    The scope of the investigation includes the source of the information that O'Dea alleges was a member of the Gardai. . .

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Willie-O39Dea-I-aim-to.6266118.jp

    "Gardai are also investigating statements made in the Dail by Deputy O'Dea he received the false information from a member of the garda"

    If it were shown through the current investigation that O'Dea was relaying information that had come from a Garda then that would change things significantly.

    I agree that if the only outcome of the Garda investigation is that they are not going to charge O'Dea with perjury then it changes nothing . . I'ts obvious to anyone who understands what perjury is that they cannot charge him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I agree that if the only outcome of the Garda investigation is that they are not going to charge O'Dea with perjury then it changes nothing . . I'ts obvious to anyone who understands what perjury is that they cannot charge him.

    Interesting that you're focussing on the nit-picky legalities, rather than the overall concept of what is acceptable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Interesting that you're focussing on the nit-picky legalities, rather than the overall concept of what is acceptable.

    The difference between O'Dea repeating something to a journalist that he had heard from a legitimate Garda source and making something up himself about a rival politician is not something I would describe as a nit-picky legality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    The difference between O'Dea repeating something to a journalist that he had heard from a legitimate Garda source and making something up himself about a rival politician is not something I would describe as a nit-picky legality.

    Interesting.....y'see, no-one suggested that he "made it up"......but the story - if there was one - was related to the "rival politican's" brother, not the rival themselves. Plus O'Dea denying he ever said it until he knew that the tape still existed....

    Not only that, but did you hear the way he introduced it to the conversation, with a sneaky, sneering intonation ?

    Even if he did "just" pass on info, what he did was wrong, denying it was wrong, and seeing nothing wrong with passing it on in the way that he did - and acting like he's a "victim" - is wrong.

    Finally, I find it curious that you are so ready to give O'Dea the benefit of the doubt in relation to what he did, while defending his right to pass on unsubstantiated information about what others did (or did not) do ?

    Legalities and perjury aside, O'Dea blatantly implies "XXXX runs a brothel", and you defend it, and give out about other people not defending his right to say this......on the basis that it was from a legitimate source.

    You have also previously complained about people having an opinion on Ahern's stance, saying that any opinion is irrelevant until the tribunal has its findings.

    Why are you not defending the injured party's right to his good name until due process proves that he was (or wasn't) running a brothel ? Why are you OK with O'Dea passing this information and conjecture in a nod/wink manner on to a journalist ?

    If I said to a journalist, "you'll have to look into Ahern's finances - they're dodgy as f**k", would you complain that due process hadn't been followed ?

    O'Dea had to pay damages and apologise.....do you seriously think this isn't wrong behaviour ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Interesting.....y'see, no-one suggested that he "made it up"......but the story - if there was one - was related to the "rival politican's" brother, not the rival themselves. Plus O'Dea denying he ever said it until he knew that the tape still existed....

    The fact that the tape existed and that the journalist admitted to putting the recorder "under O'Dea's nose" is the very reason that I believe O'Dea genuinely did not remember the conversation when he signed the affidavit. If he did then he would have remembered the recording and he would certainly not have been foolish enough to sign an affidavit in this manner.
    Not only that, but did you hear the way he introduced it to the conversation, with a sneaky, sneering intonation ?
    Yes, I did and I didn't like it . . I thought he let himself down in a huge way.

    Finally, I find it curious that you are so ready to give O'Dea the benefit of the doubt in relation to what he did, while defending his right to pass on unsubstantiated information about what others did (or did not) do ?
    I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm saying that I accept his position that if a Garda investigation shows that he has done no wrong, then he has every right to campaign for a cabinet position again. I have also made it clear that I personally would not support his return to cabinet.
    You have also previously complained about people having an opinion on Ahern's stance, saying that any opinion is irrelevant until the tribunal has its findings.
    I don't complain about you or anyone else having an opinion, you are entitled to it . . as I am to mine. .
    Why are you not defending the injured party's right to his good name until due process proves that he was (or wasn't) running a brothel ? Why are you OK with O'Dea passing this information and conjecture in a nod/wink manner on to a journalist ?
    Jaysus, when have I said I'm OK with it . . . ?? Was O'Dea's comment acceptable . . No, it probably wasn't ! Was Emmet Staggs behaviour towards Paul Gogarty in DE acceptable . . No; Was it acceptable for Gilmore to accuse BC of treason . . absolutely not. .

    I've said that I supported O'Dea's resignation and that I do not support his campaign to return to cabinet but it's not unreasonable to support his right to campaign if the Garda investigation shows he did nothing wrong . .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm saying that I accept his position that if a Garda investigation shows that he has done no wrong, then he has every right to campaign for a cabinet position again.

    .....and my point is that NO Garda investigation can show this.

    Regardless of the legalities, he did wrong. And his behaviour is 100% unacceptable.
    I've said that I supported O'Dea's resignation and that I do not support his campaign to return to cabinet but it's not unreasonable to support his right to campaign if the Garda investigation shows he did nothing wrong . .

    I accept that, up to a point, but my point is that - IMHO - anyone who wasn't some way in favour / defending him would phrase that as ".......shows he did nothing illegal".

    And it reflects badly on FF that something has to be explicitly illegal in order for them to actually come out and admit it and take action......they voted confidence on O'Dea......the same applied to O'Donoghue and Ahern; they did wrong, but because it wasn't illegal, it wasn't condemned or even frowned upon. The same applied to the bank bonuses and payoffs and pay rises, but it wasn't illegal so therefore they washed their hands of them.

    THAT mentality is what we need to weed out of politics in Ireland, and people claiming that "if the Gardai find that he's done nothing 'wrong', then nothing there's nothing 'wrong' " are part of the problem.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    Was it acceptable for Gilmore to accuse BC of treason . . absolutely not. .
    Way off topic, but he accused Cowen of financial treason, and it's hard to disagree when Cowen oversaw a DoF that ignored the crimes that were committed by assorted individuals during the second stage of the boom, the stage where we grew by selling overpriced property to each other and acting as an offshore haven as opposed to the earlier bit where we were actually growing our national product.


Advertisement