Does anyone remember the HP Slate?

Sad Professor

You remember, that "device" Ballmer demoed back at CES that everyone said would be so much better than the iPad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag3TNquUlEg

Well...

Hewlett-Packard has killed off its much ballyhooed Windows 7 tablet computer, says a source who’s been briefed on the matter.

The device was first unveiled by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer at CES 2010 in January and was supposed to hit the market in mid 2010. But our source tells us that HP is not satisfied with Windows 7 as a tablet operating system and has terminated the project (something CrunchGear mentioned months ago).

HP may also be abandoning Intel-based hardware for its slate lineup simply because it’s too power hungry. That would also rule out Windows 7 as an operating system.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/29/hewlett-packard-to-kill-windows-7-tablet-project/

After all those spec lists and rendered images, it turns out it was just vapourware... why am I not surprised?

So much for the competition. So what's up next for the title of "iPad killer"?

Tom Dunne

While it is surprising, I am having real difficulty understanding how a Windows program could work effectively on a pad/slate type device. Would there be two versions of the program - one for regular desktop/laptops and one for a slate device?

How would the likes of Word/Excel/Powerpoint work? I am sure there are countless others.

whiterebel

Worst thing is, that it lost them the name "iSlate", and stuck it with iPad.

Sad Professor

Tom Dunne wrote: »

While it is surprising, I am having real difficulty understanding how a Windows program could work effectively on a pad/slate type device. Would there be two versions of the program - one for regular desktop/laptops and one for a slate device?

I assume the idea was that it would just use the existing desktop version. They were relying on Microsoft's multi-touch layer over Windows 7 to make those other programs useable. Which just goes to show what a joke this was.

mad muffin

What they should have done is use Windows phone 7 (or what ever the hell it's called) and not use a desk top OS, with a netbook CPU.

Dman001

Tom Dunne wrote: »

While it is surprising, I am having real difficulty understanding how a Windows program could work effectively on a pad/slate type device. Would there be two versions of the program - one for regular desktop/laptops and one for a slate device?

How would the likes of Word/Excel/Powerpoint work? I am sure there are countless others.

I agree. Windows 7 on its own is not suitable for a Tablet/Slate device. Developers could build a UI on top of Windows 7 but that would just make the device lag and slow.

Apple have a killer formula. They have an OS totally built around touch gestures, with 1000s of Apps available for it which people are familiar with from the iPhone/Touch.

kjl

fistly, its dumping the windows 7 slate, probably to put webos on it instead, probably why they bought palm.

Second, this is only speculative

thirdly, we can still install windows 7 on it.

fourthly, the ipad still sucks balls.

cornbb

kjl wrote: »

fistly, its dumping the windows 7 slate, probably to put webos on it instead, probably why they bought palm.

Yes, it is likely that they have taken a step back so that they actually have a chance of releasing a viable device sometime in the distant future.

Second, this is only speculative

You can be certain that MS/HP would have quashed this story by now if it were untrue. Also, Microsoft have confirmed that another piece of vapourware, the Courier, has been aborted: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704302304575214692513583532.html

thirdly, we can still install windows 7 on it.

On what?

fourthly, the ipad still sucks balls.

Thanks for that thoughtful critique. Enjoy your wait for a better tablet computer.

kjl

cornbb wrote: »

On what?

Well they are only scrapping the windows 7 slate, the slate will still be developed with webOS.

They are not changing any of the hardware components. So it should still be capable of running win 7.

Very sad news about the courier, I had very high hopes for that.

As far as the iPad goes, unless it can play netflix and hulu, its a piece of crap.

KeithM89_old

kjl wrote: »

Well they are only scrapping the windows 7 slate, the slate will still be developed with webOS.

They are not changing any of the hardware components. So it should still be capable of running win 7.

Very sad news about the courier, I had very high hopes for that.

As far as the iPad goes, unless it can play netflix and hulu, its a piece of crap.

Pure speculation - none of this has been confirmed

bertie4evr

Why does everything have to be an iPad killer? An iPhone killer? An iPod killer?

Can't they be judged on their own merit?

Dman001

bertie4evr wrote: »

Why does everything have to be an iPad killer? An iPhone killer? An iPod killer?

Can't they be judged on their own merit?

Simply because Apple is their biggest competitor. Manufacturers would have to come up with a Competitive Advantage to top the iPad, iPhone and iPod.

cornbb

kjl wrote: »

Well they are only scrapping the windows 7 slate, the slate will still be developed with webOS.

They are not changing any of the hardware components. So it should still be capable of running win 7.

That is highly unlikely as things stand. WebOS is built to run on ARM, Windows will only run on x86. If the Slate does eventually get built with an Atom CPU they will have to build webos for x86 anyway, so maybe it will be possible.

However this raises the question of how suitable Windows 7 is as on OS on such a chip. A full-blown desktop OS, carrying all the bloat that Windows has accumulated for decades, with a multitouch interaction layer tacked on as an afterthought, running on a mobile device. It's like Frankenstein's monster. I can't fathom how people think that this might lead to a good user experience. At least HP have recognised that it's not viable, their purchase of Palm demonstrates this. The iPad by comparison runs an OS which was built from the ground up to run on a mobile device with an ARM chip. Everyone is talking about how blazingly fast it is.

As far as the iPad goes, unless it can play netflix and hulu, its a piece of crap.

Firstly, yes, the iPad does netflix: http://blog.netflix.com/2010/04/netflix-available-on-ipad.html
Secondly, I've never bothered with netflix or hulu on the desktop, let alone a mobile device. You reckon that the iPad is crap because it doesn't do some of the things that interest you? It is a lot of things to a lot of people. You are entitled to dislike it but you can't be taken seriously if you can't judge it objectively.

kjl

cornbb wrote: »

That is highly unlikely as things stand. WebOS is built to run on ARM, Windows will only run on x86. If the Slate does eventually get built with an Atom CPU they will have to build webos for x86 anyway, so maybe it will be possible.

A simple recompile would fix this, might I add the entire webos slate is still speculative too, still no major announcements from HP. Also the spec of the original slate is to have a 64 bit processor not x86.

cornbb wrote: »

Firstly, yes, the iPad does netflix: http://blog.netflix.com/2010/04/netflix-available-on-ipad.html
Secondly, I've never bothered with netflix or hulu on the desktop, let alone a mobile device. You reckon that the iPad is crap because it doesn't do some of the things that interest you? It is a lot of things to a lot of people. You are entitled to dislike it but you can't be taken seriously if you can't judge it objectively.

Right, and can I set up my VPN to watch netflix? no, because its a closed OS. Not my fault you have not figured out the best method of on demand entertainment but some of us have. Hulu and netflix rock, and with a hdmi port out the slate is perfect for running it. You go ahead and pay for your sky subscription, Ill take free on demand service myself.

I don't just thing the iPad is crap because it cant play some of the things I want, I think its crap because it cant do any of the things I want. What about things like xbmc, or boxee or the bbc iplayer or photoshop or bit torrent or porn or facebook video or folder navigation or anything really. For god sake, can you not see how much has been stripped out of this thing. Apple has some beef with adobe so bang, no flash. What if they have a beef with the next industry standard? I notice silverlight has not been supported either, so does that mean c# web servers are no longer okay with Apple. Oh yeah, that's right, we'll re-encode all our videos to h.264, just for you Apple.

You have to pay for everything for it, sorry if I dont want to pay $.99 for a farting app. If you want a vnc app, sorry no go, have to pay for it. Windows provides millions of free open source apps which could all be skinned for a better user experiences on tablet

It has no camera, front facing or otherwise, Can you imagine what skype would have been like? That alone would have been game changing, but no, we get pooped on again.

There are no good apps for it, the app store is a ****ing joke. Not only is there some insane bull**** review process by apple which rejects ideas and app because they want to build a worse version, but also you have to have full disclosure of all your source code to apple. Plus as a developer you have to pay $99 to put your free app in the app store, and you are limited to the most annoying developing language in the world, Object C

Its a closed development structure, in order to develop you need to own a mac, sure you can virtualise the system much to apples dismay but it runs to slow to do anything. The osx os is the biggest pile of **** I have ever seen, unless you have an app in the quick launch it takes forever and a day to open it up, the problem with osx is finder, what kind of morons mixes files with applications, its stupid and waists so much time.

I am a massive iPhone fan, Ive had every single one of them, plus I was one of the first people in Ireland to get it. I had one since around FW 1.02, but I only like the iPhone because it has been jailbroken, without this function its a pill of ****, plus apple are always trying to close off these holes. I know the iPad can be jailbroken. You dont need to post links to the iphone devs page, I've been following them long enough

Sure, the iPad is great for what it is, a toy, but don't be fooled into thinking you could ever do any proper work on it, and if I'm going to spend €500-600 on a toy, I would at least want it to be able to handle skype. Or open and edit an office document, or convert something to pdf. Apple had so much potential with this, but just like the iPhone they are going to drag out the development of this to make as much money from the juicy fan boys as possible.

By the way, can i hold the iPad and type with two hands? no, a simple redesign of the keyboard would have fixed that, so obviously very little imagination went into the development of the iPad.

Anyway, knock yourself out, but 10 iPads for all I care, but don't come on here saying that I' m only making decisions about the iPad because of one thing. I'm being smart, I'm not buying into this whole table phad until a tablet worth while comes out, if the slate is not going to be better then forget it, Ill stick with my very portable laptop.

kjl

Keithm89 wrote: »

Pure speculation - none of this has been confirmed

This whole story is speculatio, from a tech blog.

Tom Dunne

kjl wrote: »

Right, and can I set up my VPN to watch netflix? no, because its a closed OS.

I had no trouble setting up a VPN connection on my iPhone, so I would assume it would be the same on the iPad.

kjl wrote: »

For god sake, can you not see how much has been stripped out of this thing.

Bingo - there it is. Nail. Head. You are obviously a power user, the iPad, quite simply, isn't for you. It's for Auntie Ethel and other unsophisticated users. In that capacity, the iPad (and dare I say iPhone/iPod Touch) work as intended. It's all about mass market. You don't get mass-market with overly techie gadgets.

kjl wrote: »

I notice silverlight has not been supported either, so does that mean c# web servers are no longer okay with Apple. Oh yeah, that's right, we'll re-encode all our videos to h.264, just for you Apple.

Does the average Auntie Ethel know what silverlight is? I doubt it highly. I don't have silverlight installed on my laptop and to the best of my knowledge, I have never needed it.

kjl wrote: »

There are no good apps for it, the app store is a ****ing joke. Not only is there some insane bull**** review process by apple which rejects ideas and app because they want to build a worse version, but also you have to have full disclosure of all your source code to apple.

It's this crazy new idea they have - quality control. And honestly, saying the app store is a joke is a joke? Seriously. The device is only out a few weeks. Give it time.

kjl wrote: »

Sure, the iPad is great for what it is, a toy, but don't be fooled into thinking you could ever do any proper work on it,

Ah come on. Who really wants to do work on an internet device? If you want to do work, you get a laptop/desktop. You want to browse media, you get a dedicated device.

kjl wrote: »

, so obviously very little imagination went into the development of the iPad.

That's right, Apple don't have any imagination.

kjl wrote: »

Ill stick with my very portable laptop.

Sounds like that is the best thing for you.

kjl

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Ah come on. Who really wants to do work on an internet device? If you want to do work, you get a laptop/desktop. You want to browse media, you get a dedicated device.

Tom, if this is the only reason that you use you ipad, are you not furious over the fact that you cant play any non apple approved media.

Hulu
BBC Iplayer
RTE News
Sky
Facebook
Google Video

Some "Media" Device you have there, it doesn't even play media.

This is the biggest problem with apple, the undying fans who go on and on and on about how amazing apple are, how ahead of the bell curve they are because because they use apple. Get a life would you, and btw yes Apple don't have any imagination, they have stolen every good idea they ever had.

iPhone came from ted talk multitouch demo in 2004, ipod came from competitors, the mouse, GUI's, app store came from installer, and iPad came from iPhone users.

Tom Dunne

kjl wrote: »

Tom, if this is the only reason that you use you ipad, are you not furious over the fact that you cant play any non apple approved media.

Hulu
BBC Iplayer
RTE News
Sky
Facebook
Google Video

Some "Media" Device you have there, it doesn't even play media.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Hulu and BBC iPlayer prohibited in Ireland? To use them, one would need specialist technical knowledge? Exactly the type of knowledge the target market probably wouldn't have.

Granted, Sky and RTE news are not usable. Not an issue for me personally.

But the latter two - I have Facebook on my iPhone and I have that YouTube app that allows Google Video, surely it's the same on the iPad?

Does it play music, photos, purchased/rented videos? Yes, it does. And for a good percentage of the target market, that will be enough. Does it suit power users? Most likely not. Does it suit Auntie Ethel? Looks like it.

kjl wrote: »

This is the biggest problem with apple, the undying fans who go on and on and on about how amazing apple are, how ahead of the bell curve they are because because they use apple.

I never once said anything of the sort. However, you have to hand it to Apple for revolutionising the market with the iPhone. Now every phone manufacturer wants to make the next iPhone killer. Looks like it will be the same with the iPad.

kjl wrote: »

Get a life would you

No need for that. Attack the post, not the poster. We are all supposed to be adults here.

kjl wrote: »

and btw yes Apple don't have any imagination, they have stolen every good idea they ever had.

Sound like any other technology companies you know of?

kjl wrote: »

iPhone came from ted talk multitouch demo in 2004, ipod came from competitors, the mouse, GUI's, app store came from installer, and iPad came from iPhone users.

So what you are saying is that Apple build on successful technologies and refine them to create new markets (as they appear to be doing with the iPad)?

I am not for a minute denying the iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch have limitations. But for what they do, they do it well.

cornbb

kjl wrote: »

A simple recompile would fix this, might I add the entire webos slate is still speculative too, still no major announcements from HP. Also the spec of the original slate is to have a 64 bit processor not x86.



Right, and can I set up my VPN to watch netflix? no, because its a closed OS. Not my fault you have not figured out the best method of on demand entertainment but some of us have. Hulu and netflix rock, and with a hdmi port out the slate is perfect for running it. You go ahead and pay for your sky subscription, Ill take free on demand service myself.

I don't just thing the iPad is crap because it cant play some of the things I want, I think its crap because it cant do any of the things I want. What about things like xbmc, or boxee or the bbc iplayer or photoshop or bit torrent or porn or facebook video or folder navigation or anything really. For god sake, can you not see how much has been stripped out of this thing. Apple has some beef with adobe so bang, no flash. What if they have a beef with the next industry standard? I notice silverlight has not been supported either, so does that mean c# web servers are no longer okay with Apple. Oh yeah, that's right, we'll re-encode all our videos to h.264, just for you Apple.

You have to pay for everything for it, sorry if I dont want to pay $.99 for a farting app. If you want a vnc app, sorry no go, have to pay for it. Windows provides millions of free open source apps which could all be skinned for a better user experiences on tablet

It has no camera, front facing or otherwise, Can you imagine what skype would have been like? That alone would have been game changing, but no, we get pooped on again.

There are no good apps for it, the app store is a ****ing joke. Not only is there some insane bull**** review process by apple which rejects ideas and app because they want to build a worse version, but also you have to have full disclosure of all your source code to apple. Plus as a developer you have to pay $99 to put your free app in the app store, and you are limited to the most annoying developing language in the world, Object C

Its a closed development structure, in order to develop you need to own a mac, sure you can virtualise the system much to apples dismay but it runs to slow to do anything. The osx os is the biggest pile of **** I have ever seen, unless you have an app in the quick launch it takes forever and a day to open it up, the problem with osx is finder, what kind of morons mixes files with applications, its stupid and waists so much time.

I am a massive iPhone fan, Ive had every single one of them, plus I was one of the first people in Ireland to get it. I had one since around FW 1.02, but I only like the iPhone because it has been jailbroken, without this function its a pill of ****, plus apple are always trying to close off these holes. I know the iPad can be jailbroken. You dont need to post links to the iphone devs page, I've been following them long enough

Sure, the iPad is great for what it is, a toy, but don't be fooled into thinking you could ever do any proper work on it, and if I'm going to spend €500-600 on a toy, I would at least want it to be able to handle skype. Or open and edit an office document, or convert something to pdf. Apple had so much potential with this, but just like the iPhone they are going to drag out the development of this to make as much money from the juicy fan boys as possible.

By the way, can i hold the iPad and type with two hands? no, a simple redesign of the keyboard would have fixed that, so obviously very little imagination went into the development of the iPad.

Anyway, knock yourself out, but 10 iPads for all I care, but don't come on here saying that I' m only making decisions about the iPad because of one thing. I'm being smart, I'm not buying into this whole table phad until a tablet worth while comes out, if the slate is not going to be better then forget it, Ill stick with my very portable laptop.

There are so many things that are simply untrue about your rant that I can't get to them all. In brief:

- The iPad supports VPN out of the box
- Many apps (tens of thousands, many of them really good) are free.
- There are apps for RTE News, Sky News, Netflix and countless of other on-demand entertainment options.
- Many ebooks are free, you can load your own music/movies from wherever you want.
- You do NOT have to disclose your source code to Apple. That is simply a lie. Where do you hear these things??
- $99 to join the developer program is a bargain. It provides the easiest route-to-market possible, and developers have been swarming to join. The developer tools are free - you don't even have to spend the $99 until your app is already written and you've decided you want to go. Compare this with the thousands a developer must pay to the likes of Adobe or Microsoft for a full suite of developer tools, in addition to the cost of hosting/promoting/selling the software yourself, regardless of whether it is free or not.
- The iPad is intended to complement your laptop, not replace it, Apple have been upfront about this. Nobody intends anybody to do "serious" work on it.

As for your rant about OS X, it just has a different way of doing things. "what kind of morons mixes files with applications, its stupid and waists so much time." What do you even mean by this? "Slow" isn't a flaw you usually hear about OS X.

You would be similarly angered if it was the other way around. Try being a Mac user for years and then needing to use Windows and finding out that you need to install a 3rd party application merely to view a PDF, or that screenshots are saved to the clipboard instead of to a file, or that the system disk must be wiped in order to do an OS upgrade, or that the whole machine can be crippled by removing one file or registry entry because of weak internal boundaries.

Sad Professor

kjl wrote:

The osx os is the biggest pile of **** I have ever seen, unless you have an app in the quick launch it takes forever and a day to open it up, the problem with osx is finder, what kind of morons mixes files with applications, its stupid and waists so much time.

Eh? It's not the OS's fault if someone doesn't install an application properly. Use Spotlight. And OS X doesn't have a quick launch. It's called the Dock. The fact that you are calling it quick launch says everything. It's a different operating system, you can't expect it to act like Windows.

Sure, the iPad is great for what it is, a toy, but don't be fooled into thinking you could ever do any proper work on it, and if I'm going to spend €500-600 on a toy, I would at least want it to be able to handle skype. Or open and edit an office document, or convert something to pdf. Apple had so much potential with this, but just like the iPhone they are going to drag out the development of this to make as much money from the juicy fan boys as possible.

I agree that there's lots of potential and it will have to be more than just a big iPod Touch. But give it time. It's a new type of device. It's not even out a month in the US, which is more than can said for the competition. By the time HP, Dell, MS, etc have released their own devices the next iPad won't be far off.

By the way, can i hold the iPad and type with two hands? no, a simple redesign of the keyboard would have fixed that, so obviously very little imagination went into the development of the iPad.

That's a ridiculous. It's not a smartphone. Can you hold a laptop or a netbook in both hands and type with your thumbs? How would redesigning the keyboard have helped?

Get a life would you, and btw yes Apple don't have any imagination, they have stolen every good idea they ever had.

iPhone came from ted talk multitouch demo in 2004, ipod came from competitors, the mouse, GUI's, app store came from installer, and iPad came from iPhone users.

Now that's just silly. Where did HP's still notional slate device come from? HP, MS, et al heard about the iPad and decided to jump on the bandwagon. None of them saw any market in a tablet until they heard Apple was making one. And without even seeing the finished Apple device, they started throwing out spec lists and rendered images for vaporwarish products that are now all dropping like flies. Why? Because they saw the iPad and despite all it's limitations they realised it still wipes the floor with what they had in mind, so it's back to the drawing board.

Hate Apple if you want, but they are still probably most innovative technology company out there. When I see videos of Ballmer holding a digital photo frame at CES and claiming it to be a "slate pc", I'm grateful that there is an Apple.

kjl

Sad Professor wrote: »

Now that's just silly. Where did HP's still notional slate device come from? HP, MS, et al heard about the iPad and decided to jump on the bandwagon. None of them saw any market in a tablet until they heard Apple was making one. And without even seeing the finished Apple device, they started throwing out spec lists and rendered images for vaporwarish products that are now all dropping like flies. Why? Because they saw the iPad and despite all it's limitations they realised it still wipes the floor with what they had in mind, so it's back to the drawing board.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Tablet.jpg/225px-Tablet.jpg I think this pre-dates the iPad so no apple didnt invent the tablet.

kjl

as for the keyboard usage in one hand



Something like that would have worked, obviously a little cruder that possible

Sad Professor

kjl wrote: »

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Tablet.jpg/225px-Tablet.jpg I think this pre-dates the iPad so no apple didnt invent the tablet.

Of course they didn't invent the tablet. I didn't say they did. They revived it. It doesn't matter who invented it. No one thought there was a significant market for such a device until Apple started making one. My point was that the HP Slate et al was a response to the iPad. Hell, they even called them "slate" pcs because that was the rumoured name for the iPad.

Sad Professor

kjl wrote: »

as for the keyboard usage in one hand

Something like that would have worked, obviously a little cruder that possible

Okay, I can see how that might work. But the iPad is still too big for this to be comfortable and you won't have a proper grip on it. The best way to type if not sitting down is by holding it in firmly in one hand and using other to type.