Is the UK election more about personalities than policies ?

SlabMurphy

Watching Vincent Brown last night, he commented the press etc are concentrating almost totally on the personality's than policies. You'd think Britain didn't have any serious real issues. I agree, it's almost like Big Brother or something. And then to think that issues such as the EU facing a mega crisis over Greece and the effect if the euro is devalued and it's effects on sterling, public spending which will have to be cut in the UK after the next election, and the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The important issues are been ignored, it's more like a Big Brother contest of personalities. Anyone agree ?

danman

I'm afraid it is.

I've always thought that the UK system is almost a list system, people vote for the party rather than the candidate. This is why so many MP's aren't actually from or live in their constsituency.
The party runs the candidate in the constituency, the voter votes for a party and the candidate of that party gets elected.

It has always been about the leaders in UK elections.

For what it's worth, I'm glad we have our PR system. At least we have more choice when it comes to candidates.

In the UK, every party only puts 1 candidate forward. Therefore, most voters only have a choice of 3 candidates. It's the biggest flaw in the FPTP system in my view.

Marshy

Yeah the parties are certainly not being open about how they'll deal with the crisis. Thats to be expected though, wouldn't expect them to say "We'll bring in a range of new taxes and make huge cuts in public spending". Though the Tories have been reasonably clear about wanting to make decent cuts in the public sector.

Once you have this US-style TV debate, it does become a lot more about the personalities. Without being condescending, a lot of people watching these debates will be judging on appearances rather than policies.

SlabMurphy

danman wrote: »

I'm afraid it is.

I've always thought that the UK system is almost a list system, people vote for the party rather than the candidate. This is why so many MP's aren't actually from or live in their constsituency.
The party runs the candidate in the constituency, the voter votes for a party and the candidate of that party gets elected.

It has always been about the leaders in UK elections.

For what it's worth, I'm glad we have our PR system. At least we have more choice when it comes to candidates.

In the UK, every party only puts 1 candidate forward. Therefore, most voters only have a choice of 3 candidates. It's the biggest flaw in the FPTP system in my view.

It's been suggested the Lib Dems if they get into govt. will push for PR. Yes this system of parachuting in a candidate is dicatorial and often undermines the commitment of the local party workers.

SlabMurphy

Marshy wrote: »

Without being condescending, a lot of people watching these debates will be judging on appearances rather than policies.

That couldn't happen in Ireland could it. "Ohhh he's smartly dressed isn't he..... sure he hurled for the county......he's a great man for going to funerals....he supports united "

danman

SlabMurphy wrote: »

It's been suggested the Lib Dems if they get into govt. will push for PR. Yes this system of parachuting in a candidate is dicatorial and often undermines the commitment of the local party workers.

yes, it's also the lack of choice in their system.

Most parties here would have 2 or 3 candidates to choose from. If you want to vote for a party, you have a choice of candidate.

With their system you only have 1 candidate to choose from, and if you don't particularly like that candidate but want to vote for the party, you have no choice whatsoever.

Give me PR anyday.

Marshy

SlabMurphy wrote: »

That couldn't happen in Ireland could it. "Ohhh he's smartly dressed isn't he..... sure he hurled for the county......he's a great man for going to funerals....he supports united "

Ha, yeah its the same here of course. Funny to see Labour hopping on the bandwagon and wanting a 3-way debate here next time. Would be bad news for E Kenny!

Kiwi_knock

Unfortunately politics are more about personalities and appearences than policies. Obama would be a perfect example of this, the world was carried along by his personality. His charisma was placed before his policies. It seems we care more about what a person looks like than what they believe in. I can not see society changing this view too quickly. For the time being we will be forced to sit back and watch as the media debate the appearences of the politicians rather than their policies.

BroomBurner

I have to disagree. You only need to read the papers (avoiding the rags) to see that it is more than personality that is driving this. Or look at the increased purchase of party manifestos after the TV debates to realise this. Just as an example, sales of the LibDem manifesto jumped by 250%.

Yes, the debates showed their personalities (why is that a bad thing, btw?), but it also got more people interested. With that, the modern age of cynicism means that people are no longer led by TV and personality alone. They want to know more. They want to know what each of the personalities stand for.

If a person is ignorant enough to believe only what they read in the red tops, then yes, they believe it's all about personality, because that's the angle that press is aiming for. Papers like the Independent and the Guardian are going that bit further.

Fratton Fred

danman wrote: »

I'm afraid it is.

I've always thought that the UK system is almost a list system, people vote for the party rather than the candidate. This is why so many MP's aren't actually from or live in their constsituency.
The party runs the candidate in the constituency, the voter votes for a party and the candidate of that party gets elected.

It has always been about the leaders in UK elections.

For what it's worth, I'm glad we have our PR system. At least we have more choice when it comes to candidates.

In the UK, every party only puts 1 candidate forward. Therefore, most voters only have a choice of 3 candidates. It's the biggest flaw in the FPTP system in my view.

err, last national election in Ireland, i saw a lot of FF posters with a picture of bertie on them and a note underneath, "Vote for **** S/He's part of Bertie's team".

80% of Fianna Fail TDs are only there because they are in in FF and in most of Ireland you could put a Fianna Fail badge on a monkey (and I'm not convinced no one has) and people would vote for it.

People want a leader they feel they can trust, so to a large extent, any election is about personalities and i don't think FPTP or PR makes any difference.

If someone wants Cowen to get back in at the next election, they are'nt going to vote FG because the two FF candidates on their list are complete ****wits.

SlabMurphy wrote: »

That couldn't happen in Ireland could it. "Ohhh he's smartly dressed isn't he..... sure he hurled for the county......he's a great man for going to funerals....he supports united "

And of course his/her Daddy was a good TD before him/her.

danman

I think you missed my point entirely.

My point was about the lack of choice in the UK system.

As I've said on another thread, if we voted for a leader, I certainly wouldn't have voted for the FG candidate in the last GE.

It's about choice.

evercloserunion

The tabloids over there, almost all Tory, focus on personalities because that's what they do. Apart from that, however, I think it is motivated by policy to an extent.

Fratton Fred

danman wrote: »

I think you missed my point entirely.

My point was about the lack of choice in the UK system.

As I've said on another thread, if we voted for a leader, I certainly wouldn't have voted for the FG candidate in the last GE.

It's about choice.

What do you mean by choice?

Do you mean that you would prefer a scattergun approach, where you can vote for any number of candidates in descending order of prewference, or choice in parties.

My folks have a choice between Labour, Tory, Liberal, BNP, UKIP, Green and two independents. For me, the only credible choice is between Tory and Labour. In Scotland you have the SNP, Wales you have PC and in NI you have the nationalist and Unionist parties.

I like the PR system, but the trouble with the way Ireland does it, is that you end up with someone who had about 2000 first preference votes suddenly becoming a king maker in a hung government and getting a ministerial position.

Both systems have pros and cons and I'm not sure which I prefer.

Duffy7

The Leaders debate has certainly made it even more about personalities.
although it is still to some degree about class.
I saw this one today and its not the type of thing we'd see here.
My Grandfather Worked in the mines - your father owned them

Amhran Nua

danman wrote: »

I've always thought that the UK system is almost a list system, people vote for the party rather than the candidate. This is why so many MP's aren't actually from or live in their constsituency.

Just to clarify this, the vast majority of PR systems are list based, Ireland has the PR single transferable vote system. That MPs aren't focusing on the local issues is a good thing, its TDs looking after the parish pump in this country that has us in the state we're in.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

80% of Fianna Fail TDs are only there because they are in in FF and in most of Ireland you could put a Fianna Fail badge on a monkey (and I'm not convinced no one has) and people would vote for it.

Its the opposite actually. FF provides the most convivial forum to continue the focus on local issues for TDs, so TDs go to them, and most people vote for the TD that did the most favours for them. Small favours for big families, thats how it works, if "works" is the word you want to use.

poppyvalley

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Watching Vincent Brown last night, he commented the press etc are concentrating almost totally on the personality's than policies. You'd think Britain didn't have any serious real issues. I agree, it's almost like Big Brother or something. And then to think that issues such as the EU facing a mega crisis over Greece and the effect if the euro is devalued and it's effects on sterling, public spending which will have to be cut in the UK after the next election, and the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The important issues are been ignored, it's more like a Big Brother contest of personalities. Anyone agree ?

I totally agree. The British wont know what hit them when the cuts start. I hope they make a better job (with the cuts) than our Govt. GB said he would never cut senior citizens "They made this country what it is" were his words..so it will be interesting to see. I'd say these issues are focussing the British and maybe not so much foreign policy

old hippy

I was approached by the lib dems and the Hare Krishnas today. They make as much sense as each other.

What I get bored with is the endless moans about immigration. If Britain is really that full maybe they should get the ultra rich who own most of the country to make some space. Us immigrants aren't the problem.

BroomBurner

If you think that people in the UK are focused solely on the personalities of the 3 party leaders, it's a little ignorant, no?

My advice would be to read all the papers, but also read the comments on their pages (in particular the Daily Mail, from the week after the first TV debate).

Very good article quelling this notion that everyone is taken in by personality, when it is just another media agenda, in the Guardian today...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/01/cameron-scramble-power

Bottle_of_Smoke

Are there elections anywhere in the world that aren't mostly about personalities?

Anonymous1987

While I'd agree that personality plays a major role, its probably not as important as policies when it comes down to it. This article gives a few interesting figures which basically make the point that the most popular party leader since Churchill is being held back by his party's less popular policies and seem to fall in line with overall Lib-Dem support.

NICK CLEGG is still easily the most popular of the three party leaders but his policies are not, according to polling for The Sunday Times.
A YouGov poll of nearly 1,500 people shows that the Liberal Democrat’s personal rating has risen by two points over the past week, with 79% saying he is doing a good job, close to his 81% high two weeks ago, when he ranked as the most popular leader since Winston Churchill in 1945.
When voters were asked about individual Liberal Democrat policies, however, a different picture emerged. By more than two to one, 60% to 28%, people opposed the party’s policy of giving an amnesty to illegal immigrants who have been in Britain for 10 years or more.
By 43% to 37% they opposed the Lib Dem policy of introducing a regional element to immigration, and by 65% to 22% they were opposed to the policy of joining the euro when circumstances permit.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7114037.ece

Fratton Fred

That sums up my views.

Do I like Nick Clegg more than the other two leaders, without a doubt.

Would I vote Lib Dem? No way.

ejmaztec

It'll be interesting to see how many of those who say that they're going to vote Lib-Dem on the strength of Clegg's performance, will chicken out after getting a visit from their local Lib-Dem candidate's team, or after deciding that the anti-hung parliament propaganda is true.