If they talk to MIB its already too late

Jay Ru

We've heard this on numerous occasions this season and i'm sure its gonna have some relevance at some stage before the end. Things is though he's been talking to the majority of the main cast through out all the series if we're to believe that all the dead people on the island that we've seen up and about are actually MIB (with the exception of those talking to Hurley), so why hasn't it taken effect on anybody yet? And more to the point why didn't he just use this power to get somebody to kill Jacob years ago? He spoke to Richard at great length during Ab Aerterno but Richard was still able to make up his own mind when he met with Jacob. Surely if he has such a power how cud Richard not follow through on his orders?

uncleoswald

I know, its fairly ridiculous at this stage. Why make such a big deal out of it if it isn't a very big deal? Apart from Sayid killing the guys at the temple no one is following his orders.

Although his plan for Locke and Ben was so convuluted that maybe all the characters are doing or have done exactly what MiB wanted even if they don't know it.

jimbling

I dont think it's as big a deal as people seem to think. All it means is that he's a very persuasive guy. He can manipulate people rather easily. The more gullible and weak a person is, the easier it is.

I would see it as no greater a power as what Jacob* has either. They are both very convincing and believable when speaking to someone.

*Just a note on that... I'm not sure, but didn't MiB say the same thing to Richard...i.e. don't let Jacob talk to you?

Jay Ru wrote: »

Things is though he's been talking to the majority of the main cast through out all the series if we're to believe that all the dead people on the island that we've seen up and about are actually MIB (with the exception of those talking to Hurley), so why hasn't it taken effect on anybody yet?

Well firstly we don't really know who was who. But even if it was MiB every time it doesn't really make a difference. It isn't a case that if he speaks to you you're under his command.

Jay Ru wrote: »

T
And more to the point why didn't he just use this power to get somebody to kill Jacob years ago?

I'm sure he has tried many a time, although Richard seems to be the first. I would imagine he got tired of it as Jacob always won the battle, similar to Richard.
Maybe MiB decided to be a bit more imaginative this time and is using everyone as puppets to bring it all together with the result of Jacobs death and his escape. Hence the ensuing game of chess.

Jay Ru wrote: »

He spoke to Richard at great length during Ab Aerterno but Richard was still able to make up his own mind when he met with Jacob. Surely if he has such a power how cud Richard not follow through on his orders?

Well, that's not really how it happened though is it. He did manage to convince Richard to go kill Jacob.... and Richard tried to follow his orders, he just failed.... and Jacob kicked the crap out of him.

Then it was Jacobs turn to "speak" to Richard and he managed to convince Richard that MiB was no good and that he Jacob was the good guy.

uncleoswald wrote: »

I know, its fairly ridiculous at this stage. Why make such a big deal out of it if it isn't a very big deal? Apart from Sayid killing the guys at the temple no one is following his orders.

Although his plan for Locke and Ben was so convuluted that maybe all the characters are doing or have done exactly what MiB wanted even if they don't know it.

Well, Sayid killing the guys at the temple was a big big deal. Also, Ben followed his orders, and game plan, and killed Jacob.
And pretty much everybody in his group is following his orders really.

And those few that are not; it's quite possible that they are doing exactly what he wants. e.g. There is no way MiB thought Sawyer was going to return and pick him up on the boat. Even his line "Sawyer took my boat" was said with no surprise at all.

And claire, really.... do ye think she's just turned and is on the losties side now?? Possible, but highly unlikely.

tvnutz

jimbling wrote: »

I
All it means is that he's a very persuasive guy. He can manipulate people rather easily. The more gullible and weak a person is, the easier it is.

I would see it as no greater a power as what Jacob* has either. They are both very convincing and believable when speaking to someone.

*Just a note on that... I'm not sure, but didn't MiB say the same thing to Richard...i.e. don't let Jacob talk to you?

Ye I think this is probably what it actually is about,manipulation. MiB did say the same thing to Richard as you mentioned,but then Ben had a huge conversation with Jacob before gutting him.

Although Sayid did stab MiB and it did nothing,was it because he could never have been killed with that knife or was it because Sayid allowed him to talk to him. Why could Jacob be stabbed to death and not MiB. Do they really know themselves at this stage I wonder...:p

jimbling

tvnutz wrote: »

Ye I think this is probably what it actually is about,manipulation. MiB did say the same thing to Richard as you mentioned,but then Ben had a huge conversation with Jacob before gutting him.

Ah, but that is simple to explain.
1) Richard is a better person than Ben, easier for him to figure out right from wrong.
2) Ben was been manipulated and twisted by MiB for a long time whereas he only spent a short while on Richard.
3) And the opposite is true too, Jacob spent a long time with Richard and explained so much. He did not do that with Ben. In fact, he almost goaded Ben into killing him. "What about you".

tvnutz wrote: »

Although Sayid did stab MiB and it did nothing,was it because he could never have been killed with that knife or was it because Sayid allowed him to talk to him. Why could Jacob be stabbed to death and not MiB. Do they really know themselves at this stage I wonder...:p

Yes, the general consensus is that Dogen wanted MiB to kill sayid.
Not sure about why Jacob can be killed and not MiB.... there may be an explanation for it, but I have no idea.

uncleoswald

jimbling wrote: »

And those few that are not; it's quite possible that they are doing exactly what he wants. e.g. There is no way MiB thought Sawyer was going to return and pick him up on the boat. Even his line "Sawyer took my boat" was said with no surprise at all.

Yeah I agree that's a possibility and in fact thats is what I was suggestion, they may all be doing exactly what he wants unknowingly. But if that's not the case then why are we been told over and over again of the importance of not talking to him, like it is a big deal, but in fact he is really only a little bit persuasive. Then its only clunky writing.

And claire, really.... do ye think she's just turned and is on the losties side now?? Possible, but highly unlikely

I think she may still be out to get Kate, but even that would be against MiB wishes.

jimbling

uncleoswald wrote: »

Yeah I agree that's a possibility and in fact thats is what I was suggestion, they may all be doing exactly what he wants unknowingly. But if that's not the case then why are we been told over and over again of the importance of not talking to him, like it is a big deal, but in fact he is really only a little bit persuasive. Then its only clunky writing.

Ah, come now, he's more than a little bit persuasive in fairness.

Can you list the times it's being said? Honestly, I can only remember 2/3 times....
Once by Dogen, who was obviously trying to get MiB to kill Sayid. Once by Claire to Jack.... but we all know claire is bat **** crazy and idolizes MiB.
(I think both MiB and Jacob said it about each other as well)
Not sure if there were others, I can't remember any, but then.... I am a bit hung over :eek:


I just never took anything from it and just assumed it's as I described. Free will and choice has to exist for the characters.... it's just about manipulation.