Which irish side is getting through to Heinken Cup Final, if any?

chris85

So which of our provinces are getting through to the final? Would like to see poll on this so up it goes.

I am hoping for Leinster to get through but will be a tough test and am hoping to see big games from all especially need BOD, Heaslip and Cullen to lead by action.

Would love munster to get through also and have an all ireland final with the biggest prize up for grabs which is bragging rights for the next year.

thomond2006

I am going with the bookies: Munster vs Toulouse.

durkadurka

thomond2006 wrote: »

I am going with the bookies: Munster vs Toulouse.

Yep

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

I am going with the bookies: Munster vs Toulouse.

Hard to look past that at this stage.

Hopeful for a Leinster win, but not even remotely confident.

The Rooster

I'd fancy either of the Irish provinces to beat Biarritz. Toulon at home is a harder game than Biarritz away.

Toulouse away is a completely different story, and it will take an exceptional performance to beat them in their own back yard in a knockout game.

Munster v Toulouse in the final is the most likely outcome.

chris85

Munster without without POC is tough as his leadership on the big games is immense.

Leinster have been inconsistent of late and they may just pull out an epic game but things are stacking against them

Podge_irl

I'd fairly heavily back the idea that the winner of the HEC is going to come from the Toulouse - Leinster game, and right now I unfortunately would heavily favour Toulouse for that one.

It's just now that I'm starting to get a little irate at the rather arbitrary way Biarritz and Toulouse have managed to get the rather massive advantage of playing at home. I'd back Leinster to win if the game was in Dublin.

Aidric

Munster have the best chance.

efb

No PO'C makes me say Toutes les Français

[Jackass]

Munster had an extremely handy stroll in the knock-out stages to the final, similar to 2008.

Leinster have probably got the 2 best teams in the competition to knock out. I'm hopefully for a win in Toulouse, but it's tough to be confident.

All I can say is, I know the lads have been prepairing for this game for 2 weeks now and if the plans come together, a few crucial players are fully fit, and we pull out a performance like we did in last years semi, then we can by all means do it.

Leinster have it in them to win this game, we've just got to produce.

louthandproud

[Jackass] wrote: »

Munster had an extremely handy stroll in the knock-out stages to the final, similar to 2008.

Leinster have probably got the 2 best teams in the competition to knock out. I'm hopefully for a win in Toulouse, but it's tough to be confident.

All I can say is, I know the lads have been prepairing for this game for 2 weeks now and if the plans come together, a few crucial players are fully fit, and we pull out a performance like we did in last years semi, then we can by all means do it.

Leinster have it in them to win this game, we've just got to produce.

They've only played one match in the knock out stages so far, how can one match make an extremely handy stroll?

PhatPiggins

[Jackass] wrote: »

Munster had an extremely handy stroll in the knock-out stages to the final, similar to 2008.

Leinster have probably got the 2 best teams in the competition to knock out. I'm hopefully for a win in Toulouse, but it's tough to be confident.

All I can say is, I know the lads have been prepairing for this game for 2 weeks now and if the plans come together, a few crucial players are fully fit, and we pull out a performance like we did in last years semi, then we can by all means do it.

Leinster have it in them to win this game, we've just got to produce.

You lose home games in the HC and you pay the price. There are no "handy strolls" in getting to a HC final.

I still Leinster have a good shot. Toulouse are no world beaters and of all the teams left Leinster is the one they would have wanted least

louthandproud

I'm tipping(hoping) for an all Ireland final in Paris.

Toulouse are definitely not unbeatable and I feel Leinster have a big game in them.

Munster if they hit form should be too strong for Biarritz, but only if they hit form, POC will be a big loss.

But fingers crossed.

TheTMO

louthandproud wrote: »

They've only played one match in the knock out stages so far, how can one match make an extremely handy stroll?

Relative handy stroll compared to Clermont and Toulouse. Considering Munster avoid the three best sides (other than Munster) in the competition it is a very handy stroll.

Munster will do a job on Biarritz that team looks unconvincing. Apologies to Leinster fans but I think Leinster will get beaten well. That Toulouse team is just too good. They'll win the cup if they beat Leinster.

TheTMO

louthandproud wrote: »

I'm tipping(hoping) for an all Ireland final in Paris.

Toulouse are definitely not unbeatable and I feel Leinster have a big game in them.

Munster if they hit form should be too strong for Biarritz, but only if they hit form, POC will be a big loss.

But fingers crossed.

I do agree but Leinster have far too many injury concerns to pull out a big performance. 6 of their 15 probable starters wont be fully fit.

outwest

im going for an all ireland final,

good for connacht, nice back up if we dont win the amlin

Risteard

TheTMO wrote: »

Relative handy stroll compared to Clermont and Toulouse. Considering Munster avoid the three best sides (other than Munster) in the competition it is a very handy stroll.

What people seem to forget is that Munster didn't just happen to get the 'easiest' QF, they earned it by finishing top seeds from a group which included a good English team, the French champions and a strong enough Italian team at home.

Podge_irl

louthandproud wrote: »

They've only played one match in the knock out stages so far, how can one match make an extremely handy stroll?

They got the QF they deserved from their performances in the group stages. The semis are the only time that luck comes into play really. Think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who didn't think that Munster are on the easier side of the draw though. It's one game though and you eventually have to beat the best etc etc. If Munster beat Toulouse (or Leinster) in the final then they'll have utterly deserved it.

[Jackass]

louthandproud wrote: »

They've only played one match in the knock out stages so far, how can one match make an extremely handy stroll?

Because beating Northampton & Biarritz to get to a final is handy. Neither are a very good team at all. Therefore it's a handy stroll and as a Leinster or Munster fan, you'd have to be extremely dissapointed in your team if you didn't beat those 2 easily enough to get to the final.

As is beating Saracens & Gloucester, which was the march to the final in 08...i don't understand, it's exactly how I said it before...it's a handy stroll to the final in the knockout stages...

As apposed to Clermont & Toulouse for example (and that's being in the top half of qualifiers for the quarters, so it's not like Leinsters pool play let them down).

I'm not having a go, I'm just stating fact. We all need luck, and if you can get luck of the draw, take it, I certainly wouldn't be complaining if Leinster got Munsters draw!! Toulouse would be a hell of a lot easier to beat in a final in Paris than they would in a semi in Toulouse!!

louthandproud

TheTMO wrote: »

Relative handy stroll compared to Clermont and Toulouse. Considering Munster avoid the three best sides (other than Munster) in the competition it is a very handy stroll.

No such thing as a handy stroll in HEC cup IMHO, possibly a more favorable draw alright but then again they got top seed.

louthandproud

[Jackass] wrote: »

Because beating Northampton & Biarritz to get to a final is handy. Neither are a very good team at all. Therefore it's a handy stroll and as a Leinster or Munster fan, you'd have to be extremely dissapointed in your team if you didn't beat those 2 easily enough to get to the final.

As is beating Saracens & Gloucester, which was the march to the final in 08...i don't understand, it's exactly how I said it before...it's a handy stroll to the final in the knockout stages...

As apposed to Clermont & Toulouse for example (and that's being in the top half of qualifiers for the quarters, so it's not like Leinsters pool play let them down).

I'm not having a go, I'm just stating fact. We all need luck, and if you can get luck of the draw, take it, I certainly wouldn't be complaining if Leinster got Munsters draw!! Toulouse would be a hell of a lot easier to beat in a final in Paris than they would in a semi in Toulouse!!

I'd go along with easier path to the final(50% due to top seeding), but to say extremely handy stroll is pushing it somewhat.

Podge_irl

louthandproud wrote: »

but then again they got top seed.

I'd be less aggrieved if that had anything to do with it really.

Leinster have the worst draw of the four teams left in it, but were also ranked the worst out of the four so it's fair enough, and with a proper seeding system for the play-offs a similar outcome would have happened. It's more a general rant then a specific one. I think the arbitrary home advantage is far worse than the open draw for the semis. You have to beat the best teams to win the HEC, so it matters little when you do it. The home advantage for the semis is rather important though.

louthandproud

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'd be less aggrieved if that had anything to do with it really.

Leinster have the worst draw of the four teams left in it, but were also ranked the worst out of the four so it's fair enough, and with a proper seeding system for the play-offs a similar outcome would have happened. It's more a general rant then a specific one. I think the arbitrary home advantage is far worse than the open draw for the semis. You have to beat the best teams to win the HEC, so it matters little when you do it. The home advantage for the semis is rather important though.

The seeding I refer to was in reference to the QF were Munster got NH at home. SF's were open (or supposedly so).

TheTMO

Risteard wrote: »

What people seem to forget is that Munster didn't just happen to get the 'easiest' QF, they earned it by finishing top seeds from a group which included a good English team, the French champions and a strong enough Italian team at home.

Oh I'm not trying to deny that! I apologise if it comes across that way I was just stating fact. Leinster have a much more difficult route (their own fault) and would probably kill for Munster's route (which Munster earned).

Clermont and Toulouse would probably be the draw Leinster would of dreaded most out of all the possible draws and because of their lacklusture displays in the group stages (but also some great displays by London Irish) it became a reality.

Podge_irl

louthandproud wrote: »

The seeding I refer to was in reference to the QF were Munster got NH at home. SF's were open (or supposedly so).

In which case I agree entirely. Leinster have no one but themselves to blame for the difficult QF.

The semi draw was certainly convenient for ERC, but I'm not one to buy into these conspiracy theories. Munster got slightly more lucky in the draw, but it's not really any different from getting a lucky bounce of the ball (or from seeing a DG go wide in the last few seconds).

Risteard

TheTMO wrote: »

Oh I'm not trying to deny that! I apologise if it comes across that way I was just stating fact. Leinster have a much more difficult route (their own fault) and would probably kill for Munster's route (which Munster earned).

Clermont and Toulouse would probably be the draw Leinster would of dreaded most out of all the possible draws and because of their lacklusture displays in the group stages (but also some great displays by London Irish) it became a reality.

Oh, I'm not denying we have an easier route. It's just QFs were in our own hands which just as easily could have been Leinster's had they beaten London Irish on either occasion.

Semi-final is luck of the draw though and it could just as easily have been Munster that got Toulouse.(or Leinster)

pappyodaniel

I'd prefer if nobody was giving Munster a chance of beating Biarritz as they relish the underdog-tag, it's that chip on the shoulder thing which gets Munster going.

It's also hard to see Leinster go through but stranger things have happened. A lot will rest on the performance of Berne at OH.

~Anyway, where are the match threads on each game? I'm looking at you Thomond2006

corny

Both of them will do it. Munster have it in them to better anything Biarritz can throw at them and i think Toulouse might fancy themselves a bit too much with Leinster producing when they need it most.

thomond2006

I'm the sure the ERC would prefer an Irish vs French final, garners more interest.

An all Irish final would (arguably) be the biggest Irish sporting event ever (ironically held outside of Ireland).

andrewdcs

Head says Munster V Toulouse, heart says an All Ireland final in Paris, which the organisers would hate, so expect Henry to handle it in the last minute or something

bamboozle

TheTMO wrote: »

I do agree but Leinster have far too many injury concerns to pull out a big performance. 6 of their 15 probable starters wont be fully fit.

i'd be thinking along these lines also

buck65

Jackass you rate Northampton and Biarritz as not very good sides, I'm sure if Leinster played them you wouldn't be so flippant.

Podge_irl

There are no poor sides in the HEC QFs, and certainly none in the semi finals.

That doesn't mean that some of the teams aren't better than others (they obviously are!) and I'd be surprised if anyone thought that Northampton and Biarritz wasnt the easier route to the final (easier, not easy). Very much disagree with the idea that neither are good teams though.

Otacon

With Sexton now definitely out, I don't think Leinster are going to do it. While they do have a chance, Berne will have to be immaculate and IMO he just isn't.

profitius

The semi finals still need to be won and they won't be easy to win for any team.

Down the years Munster are the ones who usually had the hard draws and usually got drawn away for the semi finals. The draw for the semis is a joke to be honest but thats another topic.

I've a sneaking suspicion that Leinster might beat Toulouse. Leinster are going into the game under no pressure to win and all the pressure is on Toulouse and we know that can be a big disadvantage.

Leinster will try to play in the Toulouse half of the pitch and strangle them like Stade did for the first half. Leinster are much better then Stade and if they keep the pressure on Toulouse and make it a tight game anything can happen then.

Munster will need to play better then they have lately to win but we know they can turn it on for one off games.

I think Toulouse and Munster will win but anything can happen. Maybe Connacht fans will be celebrating with an Irish final.

lawrencesummers

not being an anti leinster munster man here but i cant see leinster beating TL with all the injury and knocks that players are carrying unless some of it is being overplayed.

their best chance might be to keep it tight, up the jumper kinda stuff.

Maaa!

Wouldn't it be ironic if we ended up with a Leinster v Biarritz final?? A possibility nobody is contemplating. Even Leinster to do the double???
Unlikely, especially with Sexton out. Berne has been good the last few games and if D'Arcy can cope with Jauzion we have a chance. But I feel it in me water that we might have a repeat of the Pool stages two years ago and be soundly trounced!!!! (hopefully not!)

lawrencesummers

Maaa! wrote: »

Wouldn't it be ironic if we ended up with a Leinster v Biarritz final?? A possibility nobody is contemplating. Even Leinster to do the double???
Unlikely, especially with Sexton out. Berne has been good the last few games and if D'Arcy can cope with Jauzion we have a chance. But I feel it in me water that we might have a repeat of the Pool stages two years ago and be soundly trounced!!!! (hopefully not!)

the first 20 minutes will tell all for both games, both homes sides will start with a bang, if they get a foothold in the game or ahead on the scoreboard it will drive them on.

if both irish teams come through then it will make for some final, on their day with full sides both teams are equal i think or no more than 3 points in it, but what team and players they have or dont have could be the difference

louthandproud

buck65 wrote: »

Jackass you rate Northampton and Biarritz as not very good sides, I'm sure if Leinster played them you wouldn't be so flippant.

I assume Lenister will beat Biarritz at a canter should they end up playing them in the final.. No excuses from Jackass.

[Jackass]

Yeah, I'd expect Leinster to win handy enough against Biarritz, especially when they lose someone like Harinordinquoy. But we wont get to see that this season for a couple of reasons

Also, Munster were going through some shocking form earlier in the season (in fairness) when they nearly lost to Northampton, but again, giving Northampton farrrr too much credit there, they are far from a top European side.

As far as Heineken Cup knock out stages go, a canter to the final consisting of Northampton and Biarritz or Saracens & Gloucester is just about as easy as it will ever get. If you can't get past teams like that, then you really don't deserve to be in the final. And a final is a final, a once off, anything can happen. So it's handy enough for the red army if you ask me.

thomond2006

[Jackass] wrote: »

As far as Heineken Cup knock out stages go, a canter to the final consisting of Northampton and Biarritz or Saracens & Gloucester is just about as easy as it will ever get. If you can't get past teams like that, then you really don't deserve to be in the final. And a final is a final, a once off, anything can happen. So it's handy enough for the red army if you ask me.

Since when was a cup game in Kingsholm handy?

I would consider Harlequins away "handy".

donfers

[Jackass] wrote: »

Munster had an extremely handy stroll in the knock-out stages to the final, similar to 2008.

Leinster have probably got the 2 best teams in the competition to knock out. I'm hopefully for a win in Toulouse, but it's tough to be confident.

All I can say is, I know the lads have been prepairing for this game for 2 weeks now and if the plans come together, a few crucial players are fully fit, and we pull out a performance like we did in last years semi, then we can by all means do it.

Leinster have it in them to win this game, we've just got to produce.

what utter nonsense

are you forgetting that munster eliminated the current french champions perpignan (yes they won the french league last year not clermont or toulouse) and absolutely hammered them away. Munster also not only confined the best side in England currently to a best loser spot but then went back and beat them again in the knock out stage.

Oh and finally you are forgetting that Leinster failed to beat an average English side in London Irish twice and only made the knock out stage because that English side missed two drop-goal attempts in the last seconds, they also should have been beaten at home by clermont only brock james missed a load of penalties and again by the grace of some leinster rugby loving god they again had a team who somehow managed to miss two late drop goal attempts against them (incidentally this same clermont team that munster dispatched in the group stages for the last two years ensuring they didn't even make it to the knock out stages)

all facts my friends but don't let that get in the way of a Munster have it easy, Leinster have it tough rant

outwest

jackass ur wrong about munster having it easy. they were in the group of death,

leinster have had an easier run in the compitition, this will be there toughest game in the hcup, munster have played the french champions away and destroyed them,

it tough for leinster to make the final.

Podge_irl

outwest wrote: »

jackass ur wrong about munster having it easy. they were in the group of death,

They were in a tough group, but the Leicester/Ospreys/Clermont group is the one I would call the "group of death" if that moniker must be used.

Comparing the teams each has to go through to win the competition is a little bit pointless and ultimately pretty silly though. To win the HEC you have to beat the best at some point or another. Munster's knock out games are possibly slightly easier, but then their group was harder. It all levels out in the end, there is certainly no "easy" HEC win that I can remember.

TitoPuente

Um, personally I'd prefer Northampton and Biarritz than Clermont and Toulouse but what do I know?

Leinster definitely have their work cut out for them on Saturday. Particularly with Sexton missing/having to depend on Berne to produce some serious goods. I also think it a bit presumptuous that Munster are going to beat Biarritz. Yes I think they'll win but it won't be give to them on a plate.

Even weakened though, I think that Leinster have the mental strength, now more than ever, to come away with a win at the weekend. Okay, I'm not entirely confident they will but I'm not ruling it out. Not after what happened in Croker last May! Write off the Blue Magic at your peril.

outwest

ya but the 1st statement on this issue stated the munster have an easy run in in the compitition, that because they finished top seeds and didnt mess up to an average team

phog

[Jackass] wrote: »

And a final is a final, a once off, anything can happen. So it's handy enough for the red army if you ask me.

All knock-out matches in fact all matches are one off games and anything can happen. Would LI have beaten Leinster in the RDS if the games was played again the following week?

TitoPuente

outwest wrote: »

ya but the 1st statement on this issue stated the munster have an easy run in in the compitition, that because they finished top seeds and didnt mess up to an average team

"Ya" but that's not the thread topic. Personally I'm not interested in another boring Munster/Leinster pissing contest with tribalistic morons who are more interested in slating each other than discussing rugby.

TheTMO

One thing I will say to those claiming Munster have an easy SF is appearances can be deceiving in the Heineken Cup

Munster *looked* to have an extremely difficult group only for Perpignan to throw it all away and even lose to Treviso. Remember Leinster apparently had an 'easy' tie against Harlequinns last year? Biarritz could very well turn up tomorrow and beat Munster and Toulouse could very much throw it away like Perpignan did. You never know with the Heineken Cup.... its much more erratic than it's football equivalent

Ideally maybe people should refrain from saying which is the more difficult route until we actually see what Toulouse and what Biarritz turn up this weekend?

TheTMO

TitoPuente wrote: »

Leinster definitely have their work cut out for them on Saturday

My problem with Leinster is they only have themselves to blame for this situation. A hard task has been made monumentally hard because Leinster played poorly in the group stages and didn't have the foresight to sign a good back up 10. Instead of Leinster having to play a Northampton or Ospreys they had to play (on current form) the two best teams in the competition in quick succession. All because of their sub standard performances in the group stages. Now don't get me wrong, this could of been doable but not having a back up 10 is the final nail in the coffin.
Munster would actually be in a much better position to beat Toulouse than Leinster would now and the way the tides changing I think Munster could easily do the double which would be no more than merited for long time servants to the game like Hayes, Mick O'Driscoll and Wallace.

tolosenc

Much as I want them to, I don't think Leinster can win on Saturday. However, I can see Toulouse blowing it big time.