Can't switch off at night

LegacyUser

Hi, hope I'm in the right forum. I'm a college student (Masters) with an awful sleep pattern. Since I was a child, I have often found I just don't get sleepy. I used to wait until my parents were asleep then get up and just play or read until morning. In my late teens I went through a bout of severe depression and insomnia. I tried sleeping tablets but I didn't like the effect, I was groggy afterward and even had some minor hallucinations.

Since then, I go through bouts of this. Most nights I feel like my mind can't switch off, I have too many thoughts, problems, incidents that day, plans for the next. I usually nod off around 2am or after. Sometimes even though my eyes are tired I still can't sleep. When I do sleep its fitfull, often full of realistic dreams about mundane things, or nightmares. I wake up early, sleepy but unable to sleep. I tend to wake at around half 5, and just lie there, unable to sleep but without enough energy to get up, for hours. Its like all the bad parts of insomnia, but not insomnia, since I do actually get tired.

I've tried hot drinks before bed, reading, forcing myself to just lie there and turn off the light at a certain time, tired or not. I had gotten into a bad habit of listening to music or putting on a movie in the background on my laptop but I'm told this is a bad idea so I stopped. I'm exercising a lot but its not making me tired enough to sleep. Its exam time and after that I have to start a professional job so I need to fix this.

Are there any calming techniques or natural remedies anyone could suggest?

miec

Hi Op

In a way my response is like the blind leading the blind, but in this case the insomniac leading the insomniac. Although I get off to sleep early, my sleep is very poor, espcially at the moment or if I have something on my mind, but I have found the following helps:

Yoga and meditation, espicially in the evening. It quietens the mind (this sounds like your major problem) and the meditation helps with focus and gives you mental rest. Just to warn you, it can take some time to get the hang of it. There are a number of meditations on the internet, books etc.

Avoid tea, coffee or any caffeine related foods at least three hours before bed.

Establish a bedtime routine and stick to it as best you can. Limit alcohol as much as you can (it is a sleep destroyer).

If you are having a bad case of insomnia, don't lie there hour after hour, get up and do something (eg: study, work on college stuff, watch something), it won't help you sleep (actually occasionally this trick can) but it will stop you wrecking your head trying to sleep.

Rub a little lavender oil mixed with some almond oil and rub it on your temples, the smell is relaxing. I do a combination of the above and sometimes I get good sleep, although I still struggle with the not drinking tea situation, but they might help. If I ever find the perfect cure I'll tell you;)

Taltos

I go through bouts of this.

Normally for me - milk and chocolate (I know...) helps knock me off. But since I have kicked chocolate have been quite a few nights either watching dull TV until 4 or playing the PS3 or wishing I was back by the sea so I could go for a walk

In terms of tools to relax - am going to throw out a few to you - not all I have tried.
1. Meditation / Yoga - the breathing and calming exercises might be useful - have not tried
2. Remove all caffeine / energisers from your diet - coke etc
3. Eat early in the evening.
4. Don't read in bed or watch TV
5. What sometimes works for me - is when my mind starts racing (most nights) - I try to calm my breathing - and visualize a simple object - in my case a sphere - each time my mind jumps - I force the sphere back in. Usually before I know it I am asleep.

As to the restless nights - no clue - still wake 5 or 6 times during the night - so interested to see other advice you get.

Novella

I'm a really bad sleeper myself, OP, so I sympathise with how frustrating this must be for you. Lying in bed and wanting to sleep, but just tossing and turning for hours on end is really terrible.

I don't find that using things like lavender, or having hot drinks helps me at all. I tend to go down the route of trying to tire myself out as much as possible. I did see a sleep specialist once and he recommended that I go to the gym. I did that for a while but now I tend to go for walks, or work out to dvd's etc.

Also, I found blogging quite helpful. That might sound a little bit strange, but if you find you can't sleep because of thoughts, it could be beneficial to get them out.

I do take sleeping pills too. I know you asked for a natural remedy but tbh, if you get to the stage where the lack of sleep is bringing you down, I think it'd be a good idea to see your GP. While sleeping pills are addictive, you'd more than likely just be prescribed a short term dose. I use mine sporadically because every once in a while it'd good to have a night of uninterrupted sleep and not see 2am, 3am, 4am etc.

Best of luck, hope things improve.

Contessa Raven

Hi OP,

I am currently having the exact same problem and I am so run down. I have massive dark circles under my eyes and I've also caught a cold because I'm not getting any rest. Like you I am a student (doing a degree abroad) and my deadline is in 3 weeks.

About a month ago my mum posted me 2 relaxation CD's. One for Tai Chi and the other is just ambient music. When I get into bed I grab my iPod and I listen to the music on these albums. It really relaxes me and helps to clear my mind. It takes a while but I do eventually drift off.

Another thing I find is writing stuff down. When I'm lying in bed, I often start thinking about all the work and projects I have to finish. This makes my stress levels rise and I can't sleep. But I have started to just sit up and write them down. I find that if I write them down, my head realises I've made a list so I don't forget and then I can relax more.

Maybe try a combination of all the suggetions so far and see if any of them work. And post back and let us know if they do!

Best of luck!

CR

MagicSean

I was the same. I started exercising regularly and eating properly and I found I was sleeping much easier at night. It's about getting a pattern started. Get up the same time every morning and go to bed the same time every night.

tenchi-fan

I can switch off at night even when I'm stressed or depressed. Maybe once every couple of months I'd have a bad night's sleep and feel exhausted.
But I usually get 7-8 hours sleep.

A routine is good. Get up and go to bed at the same time every day.

An evening wind-down is also a good idea. Have a hot drink. Don't watch tv for a good 30 mins before you go to bed and don't go to bed straight after eating or on a full stomach.

In the mornings get up early and don't oversleep.

Go to bed when you're a bit tired but don't wait til you're over tired.

Have your tv, radio and laptop in a different room. If they're in your bedroom you'll think "hmm, i'm not tired enough, i'll check the internet.." and it will be on your mind even when you want to get to sleep.

If you wake up for some reason during the night just try to get back to sleep and don't let it bother you.

Overheal

I take a Melatonin every now and then. Im uncertain as to its availability in Ireland; you would want to speak with your GP or local pharmacist before taking anything though, as a matter of good common sense.

Exercising too soon before sleep just wires you up. I think its adrenaline. Exercise/Exert yourself in the mornings.

If this is a chronic problem for you - it may be something that you need to seriously take up with your GP, if you havent already (you dont mention it).

minidazzler

OP, I find what works for me sometimes when that happens is to write down the thoughts that are most bothering me. Not on a computer though, just pen and paper sitting up in bed, make a plan.

Within half an hour of getting it finished I can usually sleep.

Maybe give it a try?

It doesn't always work, but it has like a 50% success rate, which as you know when you are completely exhausted is plenty welcome!

Frei

I have the same problem, I find it very hard to simply fall asleep unless
- I have been drinking and I just conk out
- After doing intensive exercise
- If I had very little sleep the night before

My mind is usually going round and round.

I find that things like chamomile tea helps, listening to Lyric FM turned down very low so it is just a rumble in my ear, Buddhist chants ( because they are very repetitive and almost hynotising) and lastly... orgasms- they really do help, stress relieving and almost like a natural sedative.

joewicklow

I had the exact same problem for a long time.

Go get a box of Clipper Organic Sleep Easy Infusion tea bags. They have Valerian in them. Have 2 cups about 40 minutes before bed time. I actually love the stuff. (Google Valerian and you will see why it helps).
Also, get a small bottle of Rescue Remedy "Rescue Sleep" Take 3 or 4 drops on your tongue right before you fall asleep.

The tea bags are available in bigger Tescos and good health food shops and the Rescue Sleep is available in Boots.

Also, as other posters mentioned. Write any problems down. Its much easier to relax knowing you can address them in the morning. And no laptops, PCs or TV in bed.

LegacyUser

OP back,

Thanks so much for replies so far, some great advice. Please keep it coming, I get the impression this is a common issue.

My plan is to try some of your advice and to let you guys know if it works for me.

1. I'm going to start a blog, although I am a little paranoid that one of my friends will read it! But I do need to really get my thoughts out, I live in a permanent visualisation, a constant day dream at the moment and it needs to be let out somewhere.

2. Visualisation, though I'm the kind of cynical person that tends to sabotage myself with stuff like that, not taking myself seriously, but I'll try!

3. Those tea bags, since that sounds like a physical thing I can use, which may be useful both in itself and as a mental crutch, like I know that I'm doing something actively.


Just FYI, on the other points, I want to give my personal experience.

- Hot milk, chocolate, etc. just doesn't make a difference.

- Exercise, I get loads, and I do feel tired after, like yesterday I did an hour and a half intense gym work then in the evening I did tag rugby for an hour and a half. I was wrecked afterwards, could hardly peel myself off the couch to go to bed at half ten. Yet still couldn't sleep when I got there!

- Tea, coffee, etc. I do have a cup of coffee in the morning and a bottle of Diet Coke most days but I never have that stuff later than about 2pm.

- Meditation, yoga, etc. My mind wanders, I have trouble with concentration, and so I think I would sabotage myself at this too. I might try if other stuff doesn't work.

- Actual sleeping tablets, etc. - I was properly described the sleeping tablets I took last time, by a GP. After a very difficult few years weaning myself off anti-depressants (even now I sometimes have a bad day and consider taking an old stash of unused anti-d from 2 years ago, which is awful I know, I don't think I'd ever really resort to it but...) I am very wary of relying on real medicine for any reason. I think I have an addictive personality. I just don't like feeling reliant on drugs.

- Alcohol - this year, compared to my boozy undergrad, I drink maybe once a week or less, and I do konk out but of course its not proper sleep and I get awful tiredness the next day! Although still I can't sleep the night after a night out, even though I'm tired! I had two pints tonight, we'll see how I sleep now...

- Orgasms - I wish! Part of my constant thinking is about the fact that I'm stuck in a city where I seem to have zero opportunity to meet men!

Anyway, keep the replies coming and I hope others in my situation are getting some benefit from this thread.

minidazzler

OP, do you actually get any rest at all?

Like finally drifting off at "stupid o clock"?

Do you wake up still feeling tired?

Definitely do the blog, or some writing at least, because otherwise you will just use your head like a washing machine, tumbling idea's around but not actually sorting them out at all. I advise pen and paper though, right next to the bed. Because that's when you will probably get the most annoying thoughts that won't actually go away! There are millions of blogs out there, you don't have to put your name to it so it's really unlikely your friends will see it!

What time do you eat last before bed usually?

LegacyUser

OP here,

I would say I get very little honest-to-goodness rest. Even my sleep is so weird and unpleasant that I don't feel I rest during it. Sometimes (after weeks at a time) I do get a solid nights sleep, I still don't sleep til all hours but then I sleep in until late next day. But that won't do when I have study and work to do early each day, and anyway even that sort of sleep is a rare event.

It got so bad that during my finals at undergrad level, I got maybe 2 hours sleep a night, during which I had recurring dreams that I was sitting at my desk studying!!! What a rest!

Yeah, I'll try the blog. I used to keep a diary, just sporadically, when I was younger, when the depression got bad. But god, I can't bear reading it back now, just depresses me! But I'll try on pen and paper and then maybe destroy it on a regular basis so I don't read over it in a few years and shudder!

I've gotten better about eating late, especially when I'm away from home, but I'm never full, I'm always hungry, so I do sometimes eat late. Do you think that's bad for this?

Taltos

Would also suggest switching from exercising at night to morning...
Exercising at night might tire you - but it also gets the blood and adrenaline pumping - just what you don't need when trying to snooze.

Frei

- Orgasms - I wish! Part of my constant thinking is about the fact that I'm stuck in a city where I seem to have zero opportunity to meet men!

I was talking about the manual method

Don't worry about your friends reading your blog, it is very easy to keep these things private as long as you don't mention names, places etc. You can still vent anonymously.

Yeah I think teen diaries are a bit of a downer, I burnt all mine in a bonfire.

LegacyUser

hi OP,
another method which is proven to help is to keep your room tidy, put out all your washing and avoid clutter. This was a study at a British University and the results found in favour of this method (cant remember where i read this sorry).
Also if you prepare your clothes for the following day this may assist your mind psychologically that you are prepared for tomorrow, similar to the writing the list.
You need to learn some methods to relax your mind, clear your thoughts etc. you do his by acknowledging any thoughts and then blanking them out, blank them out by concentrating on your breathing and listening closely in the quietness and to the sounds you hear in between.
I think much of a persons sleeping problem is due to stress, be conscious of what causes it and try to reduce it (i.e. your inability to meet men, let it all happen naturally and be patient)
(+ your masters degree = stress, stay ontop of course work as best you can)
If you have a personal mantra this can help too: my personal situation has always involved trouble sleeping too, i've been through many stressful times, intense pressure due to study, disrupted sleeping patterns due to weekend party lifestyle, unemployment, waiting for placement for masters program etc... all these things have causes my mind to race and hindered my abilities, this is ongoing for me and its tough to address.. but i've developed a few mantras to help with my life issues, one is 'patience and perseverance' (regarding a university placement i missed this year but will get next year) and the other is 'all will be fine-in time' (regarding current predicaments not wanting to be where i am but at least i know where i want to be and am working to get there).
The above mantras really are helpful as it quickly puts an end to the mind conflict which occurs over certain subjects, the mind racing is eased almost immediately and i can move on to try focus on keeping my mind clear/sleep.
Im not claiming these methods are perfect but they help!
good luck

petethebrick

You sound a lot like me. Don't have much advice others haven't already given. For me the solution was a night light (I'm 29 year old guy ).
Always found it hard to sleep in complete darkness as a result of racing thoughts, semi-concious nightmares etc I find when there's a dim light in the room I can just drift off easily to sleep

niceoneted

OMG I feel I have just met some of my matches on here. I had an awful sleep pattern when I was younger. I would be up all night, then have to drag myself out of bed in the mornings for school. I would sometimes take a nap in the afternoon.
This is also something I did in college. It was the only way I could get by.
I work shift work which I suppose doesn't help now and I am also in the middle of finishing off a thesis for a masters I am completing. My mind is racing in relation to it and I just cannot seem to be able to switch off from it.
I'm welcoming the suggestions. OP know you are not alone.

Dark Phoenix

Op I feel for you I have been there!

If I am stressed I cannot sleep or will sleep badly. Often I will sleep with my eyes open and am half awake so Its poor quality sleep. I also thrash about and hit my partner sometimes.

I found a combination of things help. The first is to tackle it before it happens. As in take something to help you before its 2 am and you are afraid that you will not be able to get up.

I find jan de vries night essence good you put the drops under your tongue. Valerian tablets are also good. I have a lavender roller ball thing I use on my wrists but it doesn't work by itself. I do also have a prescription for noctamid tablets that I only use when I am desperate for sleep.

A technique I was shown years ago that sometimes works is to start at your feet and tense them right up then relax them. Work up your body tensing then relaxing muscles and the whole way up to your head and neck. The idea is that often you are tensing up without realising it and if you are physically tense it affects your mental state.

JuliusCaesar

http://www.isat.ie/sleep_clinics.htm

A referral to a sleep clinic can help. There are other sleep disorder than apnoea. Might be worthwhile asking your GP for a referral.