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Recession 'used as a ploy to axe shop staff'

  • 26-04-2010 01:05PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/recession-used-as-a-ploy-to-axe-shop-staff-2152363.html
    major retail companies are using the recession as a ploy to drive down wages and cut staff, a union official said yesterday.

    And this is despite the companies' healthy profits, the General Secretary of Mandate, John Douglas said yesterday.

    The majority of Mandate's 40,000 members are in low-paid employment, and delegates at the union's biennial conference in Galway heard Mr Douglas give instances of companies trying to take advantage of the downturn:

    * A leading outlet was attempting to cut wages at the top of the scale by more than 15pc, while reducing holiday pay and Sunday allowances by 25pc.
    * A prominent grocery and drapery store was attempting to suspend allowances for late, early and overtime work.
    * Another company was introducing a redundancy scheme that enabled it to replace workers on a higher pay scale with workers on much lower wages.


    Mr Douglas said: "Feedback from our members suggests that right across the sector most retail workers have lost approximately eight to 12 hours per week as a result of cutbacks."

    New research had revealed that the average wage for a sales assistant in Dublin in 2008 was €22,000, while in Cork, Galway and Limerick it was €17,500.


    Union President Joan Gaffney said the Government and employers were mistaken if they thought that Mandate would stand by and allow its members carry the burden for the greed of others.

    "We will together face up to multi-million profitable companies like Tesco, who hide behind facades of non-disclosure of profits, to protect each Mandate member," she said.

    im not surprised with this,open to abuse like the shambolic work placement scheme we have.


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Plenty of companies do need to cut back but I wouldn't be surprised if there are plenty of others cutting their staff wages for no good reason. It's just typical Ireland, abusing every opportunity that comes along, just the the FAS WPP as you stated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    This post has been deleted.

    I would love to see the unions try to run a company(ies) or a country

    oh wait :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭johnnyjb


    This post has been deleted.

    Why do some people not see the reality of things in front of them. Yes there is a recession but not every one is in it. Peolpe are being taken advantage of by big and even small business owners. I cant imagine (for example) tesco being happy that dunnes reduced the wage and are obviously make bigger profits. They all follow the gravy train.

    Obvious FF er


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    Peolpe are being taken advantage of by big and even small business owners.

    proof?

    beside the obviously unbiased "Union"-ist "survey


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    Why do some people not see the reality of things in front of them. Yes there is a recession but not every one is in it. Peolpe are being taken advantage of by big and even small business owners. I cant imagine (for example) tesco being happy that dunnes reduced the wage and are obviously make bigger profits. They all follow the gravy train.

    Obvious FF er

    Ah you do realise that Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in the world to hire staff, what with our ridiculously high minimum wage, high PRSI rates and excessive labour and Health and Safety laws. Do you have any idea how much it costs to hire staff in this country these days??

    Can you please explain to me how this country is going to get back to being internationally competitive if we can't get our wage rates down for both private and public sector??

    How is the cost of living going to fall if wages don't fall?? How would you do it??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Companies are trying to make as much profit as they can, they're not pensions providers. Yes they can probably get away with cutting staff now easier than they could a few years ago, but even back then it would've made sense to have less workers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,895 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Plenty of companies do need to cut back but I wouldn't be surprised if there are plenty of others cutting their staff wages for no good reason. It's just typical Ireland, abusing every opportunity that comes along, just the the FAS WPP as you stated.



    So is Ireland the only country in the world to do this????:D

    If you dont abuse an opportunity you can never get the full potential from a opportunity!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    This is the best time for them to cut staff or replace higher paid staff with lower paid.
    People are less inclined to cause a ruckus because of the recession.

    It doesn't say what retailers this is about but Chief executive Terry Leahy said Tesco had "weathered the economic storm well" and claimed the retail giant's business was stronger than before the recession.
    Dunnes doesn't tell anyone about their profit but the UK branch showed profit last year.

    It's not a recession for everyone. The people that still has secure jobs doesn't feel the pinch and in fact are happy that prices are going down.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭jprender


    This post has been deleted.


    It's out now ! You've been rumbled :D


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,048 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    A company's aim is to get as much profit as possible. It is not to provide a social service.
    One of the things that it tries to do is reduce costs, including labour costs. In the so-called Celtic Tiger years it was difficult to reduce this base cost because then you wouldn't get anyone. Now you can so you can cut down on surplus staff, excessive wages. If they cut too low, their staff walk - but that's not happening right now.
    In the broader scheme of things, it could be a good move. Other companies may now feel it possible to follow suit and that could save them from going under entirely. In fact if it had a ripple effect it could lower labour costs in many areas, increasing Ireland's attractiveness to foreign companies.
    It'd be interesting to see at what point the balance will come in - and how SW rates affect it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    biko wrote: »
    It doesn't say what retailers this is about but Chief executive Terry Leahy said Tesco had "weathered the economic storm well" and claimed the retail giant's business was stronger than before the recession.
    .

    they also layed off nearly 300 head office staff and a lot of store staff in the process. I was one of those 300.


    they god rid of office building and reduced store opening hours and total working hours available to store. not saying they were totally wrong to do this, but its one of the main reasons profit did better than expected this year, huge reduction is wages and salaries and to a lesser degree rent


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭johnnyjb


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    proof?

    beside the obviously unbiased "Union"-ist "survey

    How can provide proof of experience over the internet

    Its not all got to do with wages being high, its about people being lied to and the powerful get more powerful.I cant see why people defend big corparations (uneless they worked in the higher ranks of one). This stupid statement of provide proof is totally over used and seems your assumed guitly before proven innocent.

    Keep on supporting the elite and rich and maybe they might give ya a job counting their millions if your good. Ive nothing got to do with a union either, they played their part making this recession longer and harder too by being stubborn and greedy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,895 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    This post has been deleted.

    Tlaking about food prices, Tesco has increase alot of its prices in the last two months, especially their meat section.


    But i Know what you mean


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    How can provide proof of experience over the internet

    Its not all got to do with wages being high, its about people being lied to and the powerful get more powerful.I cant see why people defend big corparations (uneless they worked in the higher ranks of one). This stupid statement of provide proof is totally over used and seems your assumed guitly before proven innocent.

    Keep on supporting the elite and rich and maybe they might give ya a job counting their millions if your good. Ive nothing got to do with a union either, they played their part making this recession longer and harder too by being stubborn and greedy

    Its is all company's interests to keep wages down, both large multinationals and the fella working from his garage with some casual labour.

    And its better for the whole country if wages fall as it attracts foreign companies here, makes it a little easier for indigineous companies to get off the ground, thereby prompoting employment, getting people off the dole, lowering the cost of living, losing the "rip off Ireland" tag etc etc etc

    Its basics


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭johnnyjb


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Its is all company's interests to keep wages down, both large multinationals and the fella working from his garage with some casual labour.

    And its better for the whole country if wages fall as it attracts foreign companies here, makes it a little easier for indigineous companies to get off the ground, thereby prompoting employment, getting people off the dole, lowering the cost of living, losing the "rip off Ireland" tag etc etc etc

    Its basics

    But there is companies letting staff go and have less staff doing more work for even less wages.If we all go by your methods we would just be all rounded up like sheep and work for penneys just to speed up the proccess of big companies maximising profits. Every company would have people work for a euro a week if they were left. I dont see the point in helping them achieve this.

    I am aware of competitiveness but we have to look out for ourselves aswell


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    But there is companies letting staff go and have less staff doing more work for even less wages.If we all go by your methods we would just be all rounded up like sheep and work for penneys just to speed up the proccess of big companies maximising profits. Every company would have people work for a euro a week if they were left. I dont see the point in helping them achieve this.

    I am aware of competitiveness but we have to look out for ourselves aswell

    Well the way that you look out for yourself is give up the job you have and find something better. Improve your own position by upskilling etc. You get nowhere by standing still. Are you afraid to work hard for the money you earn??

    Of course given the huge social welfare this country pays too many people can give up the job and live more comfortably on welfare than working but this another argument


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,131 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Its is all company's interests to keep wages down, both large multinationals and the fella working from his garage with some casual labour.

    And its better for the whole country if wages fall as it attracts foreign companies here, makes it a little easier for indigineous companies to get off the ground, thereby prompoting employment, getting people off the dole, lowering the cost of living, losing the "rip off Ireland" tag etc etc etc

    Its basics

    Not only wages have to drop but the cost of services such as electricity, gas, telecoms and other such services also need to come down. I know they are starting to come down but they are still amongst the highest in europe. This is only happening now. People can't take wage cuts until the prices of utilities come down once that happens it makes taking a wage cut a lot less bitter to take people wont see to much of an impact of their wage.

    There is a lot more that needs to happen to make this a low cost ecomony than just the easy short term of slashing people and wages. The government need to get the finger out in all the other services mentioned above and start reducing the cost there also.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Floppybits wrote: »
    Not only wages have to drop but the cost of services such as electricity, gas, telecoms and other such services also need to come down. I know they are starting to come down but they are still amongst the highest in europe. This is only happening now. People can't take wage cuts until the prices of utilities come down once that happens it makes taking a wage cut a lot less bitter to take people wont see to much of an impact of their wage.

    There is a lot more that needs to happen to make this a low cost ecomony than just the easy short term of slashing people and wages. The government need to get the finger out in all the other services mentioned above and start reducing the cost there also.


    Oh i agree completly, I was only focusing on wages as that was the theme of this thread.

    But you are completly correct, anything that has the governments nose stuck in it is costing way too much money. Like you highlight the utilites are far too expensive in this country, for both households and business, and are also a huge factor in our uncompetitivness


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Two things relevant to this discussion:

    Firstly, we need costs in the overall economy to come down. This is a result of wage cuts. It's not nice, but it needs to happen. The money a shop shelf stacker gets affects the money an IT manager gets.

    Secondly, companies are there to maximise profits. That's how the free market economy works, and through this cut throat method of working we've got a lot richer than anybody who ever tried to make socialism the be all and end all of how they run their country. A company only owes you according to your value to driving profits, profits drive job creation, they drive wealth creation, and sometimes people get screwed in the middle. That's tough luck, and they can pick themselves back up and have another go rather than sitting around crying for someone to give them a handout.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    How can provide proof of experience over the internet

    Its not all got to do with wages being high, its about people being lied to and the powerful get more powerful.I cant see why people defend big corparations (uneless they worked in the higher ranks of one). This stupid statement of provide proof is totally over used and seems your assumed guitly before proven innocent.

    Keep on supporting the elite and rich and maybe they might give ya a job counting their millions if your good. Ive nothing got to do with a union either, they played their part making this recession longer and harder too by being stubborn and greedy

    wait what?

    i am the one who assumed "guilty until proven innocent" ?? (remember that its the companies who are being accused of unfair dismissal, i asked for proof)

    hahahaha


    btw I am not "defending corporations", im defending common sense (something in short supply lately), i worked at the bottom of a supermarket and large companies before, so dont give me that crap


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭alias141282


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    I would love to see the unions try to run a company(ies) or a country

    That would be called Anarcho-syndicalism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭johnnyjb


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    wait what?

    i am the one who assumed "guilty until proven innocent" ?? (remember that its the companies who are being accused of unfair dismissal, i asked for proof)

    hahahaha


    btw I am not "defending corporations", im defending common sense (something in short supply lately), i worked at the bottom of a supermarket and large companies before, so dont give me that crap

    As far as im concerned your either on the side of the emplyee or the employer and im on the side of the emplyee.Ive worked for big supermarkets aswell.The impression your giving me is if you were being shafted you would not care and just tell yourself its acceptable cause companies need to make more profits. Multinationals arent our friends and are kicking us to the curb after many years of "Friendship" during the boom when we spent our money in there supermarkets and such.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    As far as im concerned your either on the side of the emplyee or the employer and im on the side of the emplyee.Ive worked for big supermarkets aswell.The impression your giving me is if you were being shafted you would not care and just tell yourself its acceptable cause companies need to make more profits. Multinationals arent our friends and are kicking us to the curb after many years of "Friendship" during the boom when we spent our money in there supermarkets and such.

    My dear friend

    Ive been both and employee and employer (and right now my left arm is employing my right arm :D)

    I understand that:
    without profit there is no business, without business there is no jobs

    If a business can not pay its employee costs (any costs for that matter, there's nothing special about employees except extra paperwork and regulation btw) the a business has 2 choices:
    1. let someone go, preferably the most under-performing (ie chop the fat)
    2. close shop altogether (forget about it all)

    You are up in arms about business choosing option 1, while ignoring that the only alternative is option 2, which aint pretty

    We do not live in some communist paradise where the "worker" is placed above all, and neither do we want too

    I asked quite reasonably for some proof of what's being alleged by an obviously biased party. You paint businesses as some cold entities who are "out to get ya" but you forget that they nothing more than a legal entity that are often (but not always of course) run by people with more experience and dedication than you, who would not like the idea of firing people unless its a last resort.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    That would be called Anarcho-syndicalism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
    Oh it would be anarchy allright.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭dean21


    I have said this all along and I am not surprised as it was the private sector employers greed that F****D up Ireland in the first place.
    Make no mistake private sector workers, you will be screwed by your employer so they can keep there profits.
    There are loads of employers gone to the wall, and I feel sorry for them but those that are surviving are letting workers go, because it is the fashion these days, and if the public sector get another pay cut your fat cat employer in the private sector will double it for you.
    Private sector workers were warned about this (that ff were driving it) but you did not listen and just moaned and moaned about the public sector.
    Yes some wages have to be cut to keep your jobs, but a job is not much good if it dose not keep the bills at bay and the roof over your head
    Even if we go back to the boom time in the future the private sector worker will be working harder for less, all in the aid of private sector greed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    dean21 wrote: »
    I have said this all along and I am not surprised as it was the private sector employers greed that F****D up Ireland in the first place.
    Make no mistake private sector workers, you will be screwed by your employer so they can keep there profits.
    There are loads of employers gone to the wall, and I feel sorry for them but those that are surviving are letting workers go, because it is the fashion these days, and if the public sector get another pay cut your fat cat employer in the private sector will double it for you.
    Private sector workers were warned about this (that ff were driving it) but you did not listen and just moaned and moaned about the public sector.
    Yes some wages have to be cut to keep your jobs, but a job is not much good if it dose not keep the bills at bay and the roof over your head
    Even if we go back to the boom time in the future the private sector worker will be working harder for less, all in the aid of private sector greed

    translation:


    private sector workers of Ireland UNITE!

    into one big trade union!

    where you can show "em" (whoever "em" might be?) the will of the workers

    :P



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    dean21 wrote: »
    I have said this all along and I am not surprised as it was the private sector employers greed that F****D up Ireland in the first place.
    Make no mistake private sector workers, you will be screwed by your employer so they can keep there profits.
    There are loads of employers gone to the wall, and I feel sorry for them but those that are surviving are letting workers go, because it is the fashion these days, and if the public sector get another pay cut your fat cat employer in the private sector will double it for you.
    Private sector workers were warned about this (that ff were driving it) but you did not listen and just moaned and moaned about the public sector.
    Yes some wages have to be cut to keep your jobs, but a job is not much good if it dose not keep the bills at bay and the roof over your head
    Even if we go back to the boom time in the future the private sector worker will be working harder for less, all in the aid of private sector greed
    Do you have any clue about labour market economics and broader macroeconomics?


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