Four/Five year old bedtime - sleep

iMax

Hi folks,

Just wondering, those of you with four/five year olds what time they go to bed & what time they go asleep at ?

I'm sitting here & my daughter is still awake, talking & bouncing around on the bed. THis is the same most nights. We aim for an eight o'clock, going to bed, eight thirty in bed & stories & asleep by nine, but it never happens.

She's so strong willed, it's almost breaking our wills !!!

littlebug

Upstairs anytime between 8-8.30 and sleep by 9 is the norm. Earlier if they've had a particularly busy or physically tiring day.
When you say strong willed what do you mean? If you just leave her in bed after her story what happens?!

Nevyn

Are you missing the ques earlier in the evening?
Some kids will be sleepy at 7/7:30 ish and if are left go over get a second wind and are up until 11.

iMax

She's just a bundle of energy (& has recently made two little friends from up the street so they're playing with the long evenings.

When I say strong willed, it's like everything is a battle with her. It's her way or no way. Won't eat fruit, won't eat veg, up & down in bed, won't learn chores etc. (Right little madam). We were hoping it would calm down, but nada

Nevyn

It won't go away, you have to assert yoursleves as parent as THE authoriy in her life.
It won't be easy, it will drive you nuts, you will hate having to do it but, if you can't get her to do as told now, she may be a complete tear away when she hits her teens.

It's horrible but there comes a time when you have to be strong and be on thier case and get them to do the things which are good for them and not crumble.

How is she with start charts?
Is her room too full of things which distract her?
How much light is getting into her room?
Do you have a going to bed routine?
Is there a bedtime mix of music which you can play for her?

I used to stay in my room and read for a while with a certain play list playing until my two dropped off, that way they knew I was there and the music became part of the routine and triggers.

Also I could hear when thier feet would hit the ground when they would try to get out of bed, which would result in my raising my voice and telling them firmly to go back to bed. No arguing no whinging, no getting into dicussions, no going into my room, only going back to bed. They are my kids and I had to train them to patterns which are good for them.

silverharp

iMax wrote: »

She's just a bundle of energy (& has recently made two little friends from up the street so they're playing with the long evenings.

if she is out playing after dinner maybe she needs to wind down earlier in the evening? we usually kick things off at 8 and is normally asleep by 9-9:30. Our rule is that we come back down at 9 but he has to stay in his bed.

Ickle Magoo

My kids are five and just gone four and they go up to bed at 7, get jammies on, do teeth, we read a story and lights out for around 7.30.

My wee guy is a real live wire, we joke he's only got two speeds, 100mph and asleep. If he gets over tired then it's mission impossible to get him to settle and the moaning and crying just become unbearable. The only thing that works for us is a fixed routine and carrying it out regardless. Have plenty of wind-down time be it a bath and story or quiet chat or a bit of telly - and a wee snack to make sure hunger is causing an issue. Then on with the bed-time routine.

Five is old enough to use a reward chart or some kind of motivation to go to sleep but the main contributing factor to kids not sleeping is the attention they receive for that behaviour, the theory being the less attention you give, the less encouragement you give the behaviour - it certainly worked for us anyway. Sit outside the door and every time she goes to leave the room take her hand and put her back into bed without talking and without making eye-contact. Make sure her room is nice and dark, invest in some black-outs if you haven't already - they're a necessity in these light nights!

Best of luck!

iMax

Have the blackouts & she gets a biscuit & milk (warm) at bedtime too. Three stories (short) & that's it then. Going to try the not engaging her in conversation,

When she goes asleep it's literally seconds & she's out cold (like me), but getting her to that point is troublesome. I'm dreading preteen & teenage years

cynder

mine ( ages 3 and 4 months & 4 and 10 months )go to sleep between 9 and 10.30 and up at 8am.

Davidth88

My little one ( 4YO girl ) , ready for bed 19:00- 19:15 , 2 short TV programs , bedtime story , into bed 19:30-45 .

Lights out , curtains drawn , door basically closed ( very slightly ajar ) .

Usually asleep by 20:00 , sometimes when checked she is awake at 20:30 , but basically tells us to shove off because she ' is asleep ' .

Wakes up 07:45 - 08:00


Routine Routine Routine .....

Break it at your peril

nesf

Our 3 year old, asleep between 10.30 and 11.30, up at 8am. Just doesn't get sleepy earlier.

*shrugs*

Nevyn

Is your 3 year old still having naps?

nesf

Thaedydal wrote: »

Is your 3 year old still having naps?

Occasionally. Some days he doesn't want one.

cynder

nesf wrote: »

Our 3 year old, asleep between 10.30 and 11.30, up at 8am. Just doesn't get sleepy earlier.

*shrugs*

Same as me. Very rarely has naps in the day, about once every three weeks.

ahhh well could be worse.

Khannie

nesf wrote: »

Our 3 year old, asleep between 10.30 and 11.30, up at 8am. Just doesn't get sleepy earlier.

*shrugs*

omgsux2bu!!!!!

9pm-8am for us with the 3 year old. No naps during the day for a while now though.

nesf

Khannie wrote: »

omgsux2bu!!!!!

9pm-8am for us with the 3 year old. No naps during the day for a while now though.

He's gone till 1am on his worst nights. Both parents are night owls though, so might be breeding..

5 yr old. 8 o'clock, jammies, brush teeth and 1 chapter of whatever book we happen to be on, usually asleep by 8.15, it would be a rarity to see her back up once she's gone to bed. Have to drag her out of bed at 7.15 during the week but come the weekends, bed at 9.30 maybe and up at 7.30 :rolleyes:

Nevyn

Khannie wrote: »

omgsux2bu!!!!!

Khannie you brats you know better then that :P

I do think the night owl thing can hold some water, I would be an night owl and my eldest certainly is ( the second love hers sleep and will ask to go to be before 9pm if tired), and will easily be awake at 11pm on a school nigth.
I can see that getting worse as he gets older.

Khannie

Thaedydal wrote: »

Khannie you brats you know better then that :P

Hahaa. I got away with it longer than I expected.

Khannie

So we've just started using this recently with great success....a bed time alarm. I have an alarm set for 8 on my phone. Every night it goes off. I tell the young one "oh, the bed time alarm has gone off. Time to get ready for bed." and she does!!

tscul32

Boys are 4y5m and 2y5m and both get into pjs around 7, upstairs between 7 and 7.15, teeth, story and that's it. Oldest one is asleep within 10 minutes, younger one could be awake for another hour. Have cut his daytime nap to 45mins, could sleep for 2 hours, but I think we're going to have to ditch it completely, he's had many days without a nap so I think he can survive. Then if they're not up before 7am we think there's something wrong. 6.30am is the norm. Bedtime used to be later but the oldest one was like a bear from about 5 in the evening cos he gets up so early. So earlier bedtime works.
They also have only 2 speeds, bouncing off the walls and asleep, no wind up, no wind down.
Bummer being up so early, but we do get our evenings to ourelves (although we're collapsing by 10.30).

nesf

tscul32 wrote: »

Have cut his daytime nap to 45mins, could sleep for 2 hours, but I think we're going to have to ditch it completely, he's had many days without a nap so I think he can survive.

I've read quite a few bits by doctors and psychologists labelling as a myth that naps cause trouble with getting a kid to sleep later. If anything with younger kids not having the nap makes them overtired later and less likely to go to sleep early.

I don't have any links to hand about it but if you do a quick google there's plenty out there on the topic.

f9710145

maybe so for some, but we definitely see that if he has a nap later on he'll be up in his bed singing for an hour or more before he sleeps. He often doesn't nap at the weekend and generally would nod off more quickly. Think each child is just different.

tscul32

last reply was mine - hate auto logins when more than one person uses the computer

nesf

f9710145 wrote: »

maybe so for some, but we definitely see that if he has a nap later on he'll be up in his bed singing for an hour or more before he sleeps. He often doesn't nap at the weekend and generally would nod off more quickly. Think each child is just different.

Cool. We found the opposite with our lad. When his naps stopped his sleeping times started getting later and later.

Jumbo156

4 1/2 year old....

A movie/tv programme from 7pm until 7.45pm
Teeth, then book until 8pm.
Left alone to play with his teddys and he is asleep by about 8.30pm
Wakes at 7.30am during the week and between 8am and 8.30am at weekends.

15 Month Old.

Bath at 6.30, in Cot and grow bag by 6.50pm. He will sleep through til about 7.30am. But is happy enough chatting to himself til about 8/8.15 if we don't go into him...

It's all about routine and sticking to it. Even the odd controlled crying, which is very very difficult but lasted only about 2 or 3 nights for about a half an hour each time...

MissHoneyBun

iMax wrote: »

When I say strong willed, it's like everything is a battle with her. It's her way or no way. Won't eat fruit, won't eat veg, up & down in bed, won't learn chores etc. (Right little madam). We were hoping it would calm down, but nada

It's only a battle if you allow it to be. And I don't mean to be harsh, but as an adult you can't be dominated by a small child unless you choose to.
I was once told a a Professor of Child Psychology, that either you take the authority or it will be taken from you!

Woddle

tscul32 wrote: »

Boys are 4y5m and 2y5m and both get into pjs around 7, upstairs between 7 and 7.15, teeth, story and that's it. Oldest one is asleep within 10 minutes, younger one could be awake for another hour. Have cut his daytime nap to 45mins, could sleep for 2 hours, but I think we're going to have to ditch it completely, he's had many days without a nap so I think he can survive. Then if they're not up before 7am we think there's something wrong. 6.30am is the norm. Bedtime used to be later but the oldest one was like a bear from about 5 in the evening cos he gets up so early. So earlier bedtime works.
They also have only 2 speeds, bouncing off the walls and asleep, no wind up, no wind down.
Bummer being up so early, but we do get our evenings to ourelves (although we're collapsing by 10.30).

This is similar to my lot, 6.5 and a 4.5 both girls, they head to bed at 7-7:15 and are asleep by 8, and having got nearly 12 hours sleep they still have trouble getting up in the morning, so we introduced an alarm clock it goes off at 7:10 am and then I go in about 10 mins later and there ready to get up.
The key to this was routine, we are a little bit more relaxed on the weekend, maybe asleep by 9pm. They've always been good sleepers and its def down to routine. My 3rd daughter is 4 months old, naps a little bit throughout the day but come 9pm she gets her last bottle and is down for the night, develop the routine early. I really can't understand how people let their kids stay up so late, thats your quality time with your partner, your time to relax before you do it all again.

miss no stars

I was watching Jo Frost's extreme parental guidance. She's been doing sorta experiments with certain topics like sugar and sleep as well as helping parents who've lost control of the kids.

Anyway, in the last one it was sleep that was up for debate. Think the kids were aged around about 9 this week and for the first week of the experiment they got to go to bed as late as they wanted up until 11pm at the latest but had to get up at 7, meaning they were only getting 8 hours sleep per night. Their average mental age had reduced to 7 by the end of the week. The second week they had to go to bed at 1930, read for half an hour (ALL electronics banished from their rooms!) and then lights out by 8pm, meaning they were getting 11 hours sleep (instead of the recommended 10). At the end of the week the average mental age had raised to 12.

It'd be interesting to see that sorta study done on a much larger scale and see if the results correlate. Kinda shocking the difference it makes. Perhaps the recommended 10 hours actually isn't enough if that kinda improvement can be seen in only one week by just one extra hour per night! (and probably improved sleep due to absence of stimulating electronics)

I know as a kid until I was maybe 9 or 10 I was always in bed by 1930 and it was only when I got to around 11ish that bedtime got to 9pm. I can't get over little kids that don't go to bed til after 9!

tscul32

sign of the times miss no stars - one of the main reasons for this, in my opinion, is that parents often get home from work quite late. As I said earlier mine are early risers, so my husband and I go to work early and leave early. I'm home with the kids around 5.20-5.40, husband in before 6 with food ready at that stage. So we get best part of 2 hours with them before bed. But if we were starting work at 9, I'd be home at 6.20-6.40 with husband home around 7. Not sure how I'd feel about stuffing food into them as quickly as I could and bed by 7, just as daddy is walking in the door. I know lots of people who put their 3 year olds to be at 8.30 just so they actually get to spend some time with them.
Anyway, mine have taken early rising to new limits. For whatever reason they have been up every morning this week at 5.30 at the latest. However the 4yo takes the 2yo into the bathroom with him, he goes, and then takes the nappy off the younger one and helps him on to the toilet and gets him his undies for the day. We toilet trained last weekend and he's really taking the big brother helping thing to a new level. Then they play quietly/fight loudly for the next hour on our bed while we desperately try to get just 5 more minutes.

gcgirl

nesf wrote: »

Our 3 year old, asleep between 10.30 and 11.30, up at 8am. Just doesn't get sleepy earlier.

*shrugs*

same here with the 4 yr old and she does not have naps!

gcgirl

miss no stars wrote: »

I was watching Jo Frost's extreme parental guidance. She's been doing sorta experiments with certain topics like sugar and sleep as well as helping parents who've lost control of the kids.

Anyway, in the last one it was sleep that was up for debate. Think the kids were aged around about 9 this week and for the first week of the experiment they got to go to bed as late as they wanted up until 11pm at the latest but had to get up at 7, meaning they were only getting 8 hours sleep per night. Their average mental age had reduced to 7 by the end of the week. The second week they had to go to bed at 1930, read for half an hour (ALL electronics banished from their rooms!) and then lights out by 8pm, meaning they were getting 11 hours sleep (instead of the recommended 10). At the end of the week the average mental age had raised to 12.

It'd be interesting to see that sorta study done on a much larger scale and see if the results correlate. Kinda shocking the difference it makes. Perhaps the recommended 10 hours actually isn't enough if that kinda improvement can be seen in only one week by just one extra hour per night! (and probably improved sleep due to absence of stimulating electronics)

I know as a kid until I was maybe 9 or 10 I was always in bed by 1930 and it was only when I got to around 11ish that bedtime got to 9pm. I can't get over little kids that don't go to bed til after 9!

Seriously i would have to get the UN in to do peace keeping if i took anything out of their rooms!

Nevyn

You shouldn't be afraid of the reactions of your kids, if they throw a tantrum then let them,
you can't be held hostage by them or they will use it to get thier way and you are not the parent as you are not in charge.