Soakaway Bre digest 365

Cerlan

Heard that a soakaway test is now required for Cork County Council as part of the planning application for a single dwelling. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this?

homewardbound11

`yes,
had to do mine a year ago in mayo. test added 1200 to my architects fees.
Did the digging myself and needed a grave to be dug and filled with stone. The effect was that in the final plans i needed 6 of these for soakways.

mendel

This is a soil infiltration test procedure for surface water soakaway design. It allows you to work out the size of your soakaway based on soil soakage rate, run-off calcs from impermeable areas.

PM me if you are looking for someone to carry out this test.

sydthebeat

Cerlan wrote: »

Heard that a soakaway test is now required for Cork County Council as part of the planning application for a single dwelling. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this?

can you not simply use your percolation test results??

mickdw

sydthebeat wrote: »

can you not simply use your percolation test results??

In mayo at least, they want the test as per BRE digest 365. It involves a very large hole filled to water to a level therefore giving a more representative test result than the small percolation test. This then dictates the size & shape of the final soak pit. I wish I could get €1200 for this test!

sydthebeat

any help here?

http://www.planning.northlincs.gov.uk/PlanningReports/FormsBuildingControl/PercolationTestSheet.pdf

http://www2.basingstoke.gov.uk/test/1/00/82/00/00820084.PDF

http://planning.babergh.gov.uk/doldp/24183_1.pdf

Cerlan

Thanks for all the info, will have a look through those links as well.

atech

Cerlan wrote: »

Heard that a soakaway test is now required for Cork County Council as part of the planning application for a single dwelling. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this?

Cerlan,
I think it will depend on the location of your dwelling.

If it is in a suburban area then you will probably need one unless you are permitted to connect up to an existing stormwater drain.

However if it is rural, then I doubt it unless the council think there is a potential risk to watercourses or they think the soakways were designed/positioned incorrectly in the site layout plan.

mickdw

atech wrote: »

However if it is rural, then I doubt it unless the council think there is a potential risk to watercourses or they think the soakways were designed/positioned incorrectly in the site layout plan.

The planning authorities are moving in this direction for all rural applications that show a proposed soakaway. Mayo certainly have among others.
If however you show runoff going to surface water drain within site, then its obviously not needed

No6

mickdw wrote: »

In mayo at least, they want the test as per BRE digest 365. It involves a very large hole filled to water to a level therefore giving a more representative test result than the small percolation test. This then dictates the size & shape of the final soak pit. I wish I could get €1200 for this test!

Who in the name of god charged you 1200 euros for this test, I'd love to be able to get that too!!! If my clients have the hole dug and provide enough water I do it for free, My perc test guy charges and extra 75 euro to do it if the holes etc are dug for him!! I am also in Mayo!!!

atech

mickdw wrote: »

The planning authorities are moving in this direction for all rural applications that show a proposed soakaway. Mayo certainly have among others.
If however you show runoff going to surface water drain within site, then its obviously not needed

I wouldn't hold my breath down here somehow, unless the EU enforce us.

We were using SR6 for wastewater up to January this year and still haven't got a final list of EPA assessors yet (almost 4 months after it became mandatory to use one).

sydthebeat

atech wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath down here somehow, unless the EU enforce us.

We were using SR6 for wastewater up to January this year and still haven't got a final list of EPA assessors yet (almost 4 months after it became mandatory to use one).

atech, you in laois by any chance??

in laois they are still using SR6... they've not introduced EPA because of the 'work to rule'.

Theres a good chance the council themselves will actually carry out the EPA tests, when it comes in... a recipe for disaster!!

atech

sydthebeat wrote: »

atech, you in laois by any chance??

in laois they are still using SR6... they've not introduced EPA because of the 'work to rule'.

Theres a good chance the council themselves will actually carry out the EPA tests, when it comes in... a recipe for disaster!!

Nope I'm in Cork.

From what I understand from the 8th of January last all counties have to implement EPA tests for wastewater now. The EU have made it mandatory.

I didn't think any county was allowed to grant permission from this date unless an EPA test has been done.

By right the assessors are supposed to be certified by FAS and approved by the council and hold P.I but in Cork the 'work to rule' or just lack of staff has delayed the panel of assessors so most applications that are currently being granted have EPA tests but not yet approved assessors (although they must still have P.I).
We have a preliminary panel of about 30 on it but there is about 200 more waiting to see if they will be approved. It was supposed to be up on the 19th but we're still waiting.

sydthebeat

In laois they are still accepting their own old sr6 test results, and only accepting EPA tests where SR6 has failed AND the water table is more thn 1.0m below ground according to the sr6 results.

No list of EPA assessors is being proposed

Sine1

Anyone know how to calculate R (rainfall for a 10 year return period)..

sydthebeat

Sine1 wrote: »

Anyone know how to calculate R (rainfall for a 10 year return period)..

http://eca.knmi.nl/utils/mapserver/returnvalues.php?indexcat=1&indexid=R75p&periodidselect=19912009&seasonid=0&returnvalue=10&scalelogidselect=no&minx=-996904.761906&miny=-4594285.714286&maxx=-130238.095239&maxy=-3944285.714286&MapSize=560%2C420&imagewidth=560&imageheight=420&mainmap.x=265&mainmap.y=184&CMD=ZOOM_IN&CMD=ZOOM_IN&indextest=*#

ireland generally varies from 60+ in the west to approx 40 on east coast

fclauson

Sorry to dig up an old post but it sort of continues on from the thread - any idea or pointers as to how to convert a perculation report T value into giving you the "soil infiltration rate" for a BRE 365 calculation ?

stock>

Nearly sure the European court put paid to that .............

this is what is current.........
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,24906,en.pdf

there is also the water services act 2010 with amendments including the water service 2012 which deals with water metering and the inspection,declaration and maintenance of foul water systems.........

Have a read here
http://www.siteassessor.com//c

rayjdav

Stock> This is about the percolation of Surface Water NOT foul water. Your link is just to the TGD H for drainage + wastewater disposal . For foul waste you need the EPA docs now.


Link to Bre Digest 365

http://www.fdean.gov.uk/media/Assets/Planning-BC/documents/approved documents/BRE_Soakaway_Design_Guide.pdf

fclauson

Stock - thanks

I am trying to calculate the size of a soak away for rainwater and I thougth I could use the T value of my perc. report to get the "soil infiltration rate" for a BRE 365 calculation

and Rayjdav's reply came in while I was typing

stock>

In 2009 the European court of justice handed down a ruling that we were in breach of European law and using the English system was illegal' as there was significant difference in ground conditions between the two countries, thus the 2010 water services act and the new technical guidance documents.

Page 21 on deals with storm water drainage.


2. Judgment of the European Court of Justice (ECJ)
On 29 October 2009, the ECJ ruled against Ireland in relation to septic tanks and other on-site wastewater treatment systems. The Court found that by failing to adopt the necessary legislation to comply with Articles 4 and 8 of Council Directive 75/442/EEC (The Waste Directive) as regards domestic waste waters disposed of in the countryside through septic tanks and other individual waste water treatment systems, Ireland has failed to fulfill its obligations under that directive.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/Environment/Water/FileDownLoad,28433,en.pdf

rayjdav

Stock.
Page 25 of TGD H states that any area greater then 100msq, reference must be made to BRE Digest 365.

The ECJ ruling that you note is in relation to foul water percolations and not surface water percolations. The question here sa I understand is re surface waters.

fclauson

stock - thanks

yup - I was trying to use the perc numbers in my 365 calc

I also found this

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/107290/58406.xls

which is quite a good spread sheet once I get the right infiltration rate

sydthebeat

BRE digest 365 is still very much applicable to storm water soakaways in ireland. My local authority consistently insist on compliance where no open drain / watercourse is available.