Congrats Ulster

Brewster

Congrats Ulster on qualifying for Heineken Cup next year. Fantastic performance in Edinburgh today. No disrespect to Connaught, and I sincerely hope they can sneak in the back door, but Irish rugby needs a strong Ulster team playing Heineken Cup rugby.

Good boost for Munster too with Edinburgh getting beat without a bonus.

Aidric

As Matt Williams rightly said, you shouldn't have a team with the class of Ulster missing out on the HEC.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Brewster wrote: »

Irish rugby needs a strong Ulster team playing Heineken Cup rugby.

Oh yeah, sure. Never mind Connacht.

Digifriendly

Blaise Chilly Vagrant wrote: »

Oh yeah, sure. Never mind Connacht.

Don't forget Connacht might still make it - Amlin Cup or if Munster/Leinster win the HC. As an Ulster fan I certainly hope they make it. Also 3 games in 8 days is a tall ask for any side especially one without the resources of the other richer clubs.

phog

Not taking away from Ulster's performance in Edinburgh (they did Munster a favour too ) today but this is the 2nd season in recent times where Connacht have nearly caught them and this year it was the closest of them all. I still hope Connacht beat them in Ravenhill and that Connacht manage to get into the H/Cup for next season.

durkadurka

phog wrote: »

Not taking away from Ulster's performance in Edinburgh (they did Munster a favour too ) today but this is the 2nd season in recent times where Connacht have nearly caught them and this year it was the closest of them all. I still hope Connacht beat them in Ravenhill and that Connacht manage to get into the H/Cup for next season.

Leinster will appreciate playing a demotivated edinburgh too.

CatFromHue

Blaise Chilly Vagrant wrote: »

Oh yeah, sure. Never mind Connacht.

the point the op was trying to make was that traditionally ulster would have been one of irelands strongest provinces.

i just did a quick look on wikipedia and according to them ulster have won the inter provincial tournament 26 times to munsters and leinster 22, and to connachts 2.

they were also the first irish team to win the heineken cup and won the celtic league not too long ago.

so in many ways ulster not not getting into the heineken cup would be a massive.

they've had a terrible run of form recently and so deserve to be were they are in the table but around the start of the year when it looked like they might get out of their group in the heineken cup nobody would have expected things to have gone so badly for them.

it'll be very interesting to see how they get on next season

Brewster

CatFromHue wrote: »

the point the op was trying to make was that traditionally ulster would have been one of irelands strongest provinces.

i just did a quick look on wikipedia and according to them ulster have won the inter provincial tournament 26 times to munsters and leinster 22, and to connachts 2.

they were also the first irish team to win the heineken cup and won the celtic league not too long ago.

so in many ways ulster not not getting into the heineken cup would be a massive.

they've had a terrible run of form recently and so deserve to be were they are in the table but around the start of the year when it looked like they might get out of their group in the heineken cup nobody would have expected things to have gone so badly for them.

it'll be very interesting to see how they get on next season

Yes, that was point im making. From a personal perspective, Ireland mean more to me than provincial rugby, and with Ulster having a number of Irish Internationals in the squad, not having them playing Heineken Cup rugby next season would have been a disaster to be frank.

johnnysmack

Digifriendly wrote: »

Don't forget Connacht might still make it - Amlin Cup or if Munster/Leinster win the HC

How come when an Irish province won the H cup in previous years Connaught didnt qualify but this year they will?

buck65

Congrats? For finishing above a Connacht team that are cobbled together and win despite any help from the IRFU. A Connacht team with 28 full time players who are asked to play 4 games in 13 days?
Ulster should be ashamed of the season they put down with all their big names.
Since their win in 1999 apart from a few decent wins they have done nothing of note.

theKramer

buck65 wrote: »

Congrats? For finishing above a Connacht team that are cobbled together and win despite any help from the IRFU. A Connacht team with 28 full time players who are asked to play 4 games in 13 days?
Ulster should be ashamed of the season they put down with all their big names.
Since their win in 1999 apart from a few decent wins they have done nothing of note.

I dont think you can apportion all the blame on the players.

Matt Williams gave some revealing insights from his time there. He started off by saying "I couldnt say this while I was there, but now that Im not working there anymore, I can"
He then basically went on to say that the main problem is the upper management. I think he hinted at them letting the defence coach go on financial grounds, and hence why their form went to ****.

He had nothing but good things to say about the guys on the ground. He was really critical of the upper management though

Brewster

buck65 wrote: »

Congrats? For finishing above a Connacht team that are cobbled together and win despite any help from the IRFU. A Connacht team with 28 full time players who are asked to play 4 games in 13 days?
Ulster should be ashamed of the season they put down with all their big names.
Since their win in 1999 apart from a few decent wins they have done nothing of note.

Their backs were up against the wall, had lost 4 or 5 on the bounce, with a Connaught side playing out of their skin breathing down their necks and they go to Edinburgh and get a bonus point win to render their game with Connaught a virtual dead rubber? I think congratulations are in order. Of course, you are correct that Ulster are underachieving. Lets hope they can sort out their top level adminstration problems if this is hindering the development of a talented group of players.

irishbucsfan

Brewster wrote: »

Their backs were up against the wall, had lost 4 or 5 on the bounce, with a Connaught side playing out of their skin breathing down their necks and they go to Edinburgh and get a bonus point win to render their game with Connaught a virtual dead rubber? I think congratulations are in order. Of course, you are correct that Ulster are underachieving. Lets hope they can sort out their top level adminstration problems if this is hindering the development of a talented group of players.

There are problems at Ulster, and have been for a few seasons.


Despite that there are some very exciting things happening there. The emergence of Stephen Ferris is the perfect example of what the province is capable of, and if the team hadn't spent the last decade bleeding talent it would be spending this decade oozing class.

This season they started excellently, and despite their captain being ruled out for the season they were one of the best teams in the Magners League before christmas. Then it fell apart as it always does. I'm not sure what happened, but they seemed to implode around the same time that Isaac Boss announced his decision to leave the province. I'm not sure if that is a symptom of whatever problem already existed in the camp, or the causation of an entirely new problem.


It's such a shame, because Ulster play the most exciting style of rugby of any professional side on this island, and if they had only sorted out their mystery problems, they'd be at the top of the table.


If you accept that it's unlikely for the team to reach their potential while there are problems in the camp, then this season has to be seen as a success. Players like Henry, Tuohy, Whitten and Smith emerged and proved themselves important players going forward, and when you add them to players like Ferris, Wallace, Trimble and Best the building blocks of a top young team are starting to fall into place. If you add to that mix an experienced scrum-half to replace Boss (Huge loss to the team) and can somehow manage to discover a good out-half to lead the team then I really do believe that they can go on to really great things.

Brewster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are problems at Ulster, and have been for a few seasons.


Despite that there are some very exciting things happening there. The emergence of Stephen Ferris is the perfect example of what the province is capable of, and if the team hadn't spent the last decade bleeding talent it would be spending this decade oozing class.

This season they started excellently, and despite their captain being ruled out for the season they were one of the best teams in the Magners League before christmas. Then it fell apart as it always does. I'm not sure what happened, but they seemed to implode around the same time that Isaac Boss announced his decision to leave the province. I'm not sure if that is a symptom of whatever problem already existed in the camp, or the causation of an entirely new problem.


It's such a shame, because Ulster play the most exciting style of rugby of any professional side on this island, and if they had only sorted out their mystery problems, they'd be at the top of the table.


If you accept that it's unlikely for the team to reach their potential while there are problems in the camp, then this season has to be seen as a success. Players like Henry, Tuohy, Whitten and Smith emerged and proved themselves important players going forward, and when you add them to players like Ferris, Wallace, Trimble and Best the building blocks of a top young team are starting to fall into place. If you add to that mix an experienced scrum-half to replace Boss (Huge loss to the team) and can somehow manage to discover a good out-half to lead the team then I really do believe that they can go on to really great things.

Serious potential in Ulster, how often do we keep saying this though?? I thought with Heino cup win away to Bath, they would have kicked on, but they went into freefall in fact. Why this happened is anybodys guess, especially as it coincided with Best's return to team.

However, they showed massive determination to win in Edinburgh who were fighting for points themselves.

Hopefully next season they can improve.

I also sincerely hope that Connaught continue to develop under their new coach, despite the circumstances they are faced with. This thread was not an attempt to bash Connaught just to reiterate once again.

toomevara

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's such a shame, because Ulster play the most exciting style of rugby of any professional side on this island, and if they had only sorted out their mystery problems, they'd be at the top of the table.

100% agree, always telling folk that If I had to pick one Irish province to watch play week in week out it would be Ulster, never believed because of my munster origins. In this respect they're very similar to the Scarlets, who play beautifully but never seem to reap the rewards. Inexplicable.

Digifriendly

buck65 wrote: »

Congrats? For finishing above a Connacht team that are cobbled together and win despite any help from the IRFU. A Connacht team with 28 full time players who are asked to play 4 games in 13 days?
Ulster should be ashamed of the season they put down with all their big names.
Since their win in 1999 apart from a few decent wins they have done nothing of note.

They won the Celtic League in 2006.

tommy57

not a good side at all .I've watched them 4 times this year and they lost 3. they will do well to hold onto ferris next season,even bowe changed his mind about going back there next season.and ulster not in the h/c would barely have a huge effect on the Irish team seen as ferris and best are the only ones that can get into the team.

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

100% agree, always telling folk that If I had to pick one Irish province to watch play week in week out it would be Ulster, never believed because of my munster origins. In this respect they're very similar to the Scarlets, who play beautifully but never seem to reap the rewards. Inexplicable.

Like the Scarlets, they're just that little bit shy of having a full team, have bad coaches, and a habit of losing good players.

Neil Best and Tommy Bowe, Stephen Jones for ages, etc.

Brewster

tommy57 wrote: »

not a good side at all .I've watched them 4 times this year and they lost 3. they will do well to hold onto ferris next season,even bowe changed his mind about going back there next season.and ulster not in the h/c would barely have a huge effect on the Irish team seen as ferris and best are the only ones that can get into the team.

And what about future Irish Internationals Tommy, did you consider these in your less than complete analysis!?;)

They have too many players like Willie Faloon, Chris Henry, Darren Cave, Tom Court, David Pollock whose careers may stagnate should they miss out on top level Heineken Cup rugby and this could impact on the Irish playing pool. These guys need top level rugby and I am delighted they will get it next season.

I suggest you watch more than four Ulster games before making such a sweeping statement that Ulster are not a good side!

outwest

if connacht got to the hcup.

keatly carr corinin, would also get the experience of top level rugby

TheTMO

tommy57 wrote: »

not a good side at all .I've watched them 4 times this year and they lost 3. they will do well to hold onto ferris next season,even bowe changed his mind about going back there next season.and ulster not in the h/c would barely have a huge effect on the Irish team seen as ferris and best are the only ones that can get into the team.

What a load of tripe. Ulster have currently Rory Best, Stephen Ferris, Andrew Trimble, Paddy Wallace, Chris Henry and Tom Court all of whom featured in the Irish 22s for the 6 Nations. They are also responsible for the development of Ireland's best player, Tommy Bowe, in case you forgot. The likes of Faloon, Pollock, Cave, Touhy are some of the most exciting talents in Irish rugby right now.

Trojan

Matt Williams made some really interesting comments at the end of that game. I think Ulster has exactly the same problems with top level management as Connacht.

2040

TheTMO wrote: »

What a load of tripe. Ulster have currently Rory Best, Stephen Ferris, Andrew Trimble, Paddy Wallace, Chris Henry and Tom Court all of whom featured in the Irish 22s for the 6 Nations. They are also responsible for the development of Ireland's best player, Tommy Bowe, in case you forgot. The likes of Faloon, Pollock, Cave, Touhy are some of the most exciting talents in Irish rugby right now.

That's the problem though. They're so good on paper but they're underachieving.

phog

Trojan wrote: »

Matt Williams made some really interesting comments at the end of that game. I think Ulster has exactly the same problems with top level management as Connacht.

Didn't hear his comments but he left Ulster as he wanted to move home but we've seen more of him since then than when he was coaching Ulster

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Didn't hear his comments but he left Ulster as he wanted to move home but we've seen more of him since then than when he was coaching Ulster

I don't think we've heard the full story as to why he left. I doubt it was on good terms.

tommy57

as i said two players that can actually get into the team.

Brewster

tommy57 wrote: »

as i said two players that can actually get into the team.

Tommy, I think your analysis is a tad flawed!! I don't you will get any support for your views on here. Irish Rugby isnt just about the current team, its about the future also. Yes some people will fall off the bandwagen if the International team start to struggle, but for others its their sport and we need to think of the future. Hence Ulster playing Heineken cup is important for Ireland.

anonymous_joe

tommy57 wrote: »

as i said two players that can actually get into the team.

Produced Bowe, Fez and Best of the current side, not to mention Wallace and Trimble.

Many if not most of our historical stars are Ulstermen.

They've a youth side that keeps churning out talent.

greendom

Aidric wrote: »

As Matt Williams rightly said, you shouldn't have a team with the class of Ulster missing out on the HEC.

If they didn't do enough to qualify of course you should.

You shouldn't qualify by right but by merit

Trojan

phog wrote: »

Didn't hear his comments but he left Ulster as he wanted to move home but we've seen more of him since then than when he was coaching Ulster

In hindsight, that was obviously a BS excuse to explain his quick exit. Reading between the lines, sounds like he had a serious disagreement with the way the CEO/director level folks at Ulster wanted to do things. Their loss.

profitius

toomevara wrote: »

100% agree, always telling folk that If I had to pick one Irish province to watch play week in week out it would be Ulster, never believed because of my munster origins. In this respect they're very similar to the Scarlets, who play beautifully but never seem to reap the rewards. Inexplicable.

They are good to watch alright. Their forwards are not good enough. They might also have a problem with defense. Before the Edinburgh match Les Kiss was up helping them out with their defense so that would have helped too.


One of the major reasons Ulster lose alot of players is because they're not as financially well off as Munster or Leinster. This is because of stadium size and the main reason is they don't have the Rep of Ireland tax break for sportsmen.