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Gardai seizing unrestricted bikes
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25-04-2010 6:06pm#1
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And you let them get on it? Why?
Where do you stand if they drop it? If they suspect that it isn't restricted then they can shell out to have it dynoed.
Not the way it works I'm afraid, if they suspect it isn't restricted then it's up to the owner to show that it is.
A cert is usually fine, if you don't have a cert then you could have an independant inspection (shop) or a dyno test sheet.
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »Where are you getting this from? If a cop suspects I'm drunk its up to him to bring the tester, if he thinks I'm speeding he measures my speed and if he thinks my CAR isn't roadworthy he has it lifted and taken to a garda garage he dosen't take it for a spin to see how well its handling in bends.
So I ask again how is it up to me to aliviate their suspicion?
also you write "a cert is usuaally fine" are you acually suggesting that a cop can go hey I see your cert but I'm gonna drive your bike to verify it?
I never said a guard could ride your bike without your permission but if it is a simple way of satisfying them that all is in order then why not? Why make life more difficult?
On the other stuff, it's the law, read up on it, if a bike needs to be restricted to suit your license then it's up to you to show that it has been, not the guard to show it hasn't.
The easiest way a guard can determine the bhp of your motorcycle is to look it up on the database, if it's a model with a stated output beyond 33bhp then you'r not entitled to ride it unless it's been modified to suit your license, that means restricted, it'll be up to the owner to show thet they have made the necessary changes to the bike to make it legal.
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »It's not "making life more difficult" its refusing to pander to a garda thats ignoring a restriction cert.
It's not the law for me I've had a license to ride a real bike since 1994.
The guard doesn't have to accept a cert as proof, most are happy enough but it's not a legal document and anyone can print a restriction cert off, it's not worth the paper it's printed on TBH, there were cases of drivers producing certs for bikes that weren't restricted, some dealers were even known to sell full power bikes with certs (long stopped hopefully).
All motorcycles are real bikes, I had to wait 2 years on a 125 back in 91
but was still a real bike.
*Edit - just for note, if the garda that stops you has done the garda motorcycle training they are allowed test the bike - source; friend in the jeandarme.
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Regardless of whether or not they have the right to they aren't calibrated machines; they cannot accurately tell the power output of a bike.
They don't prosecute you on it, it's just grounds for arrest
and impounding the bike.
After that they can bring your bike for testing (at your expense of course).
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smellslikeshoes wrote: »Ah for christ sake will you read my post before going off on your little rant.
The OP never said what bike he was on, and you never asked what bike I was on before you started talking about CBR600s
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »I can see why you are coming out telling us not to be doing the "big talk"
The following reads to me as " if the garda are talking to you tell them you are scared and bullied and then put your head down and hope they feel sorry for you.
Fair enough we aren't the outlaws some people think we are but I thought that atleast when a biker looks in the mirror to shave he see someone with balls.
Bringing up a previous post of mine from 8 or 9 months ago to try and belittle me, well played. :rolleyes:
Seriously like what are you playing at? I've had enough experience with them as a biker and otherwise to know that keeping the head down and not giving them a reason to go on a power trip is the best option.
Acting the hardman to the gardai just makes things harder on yourself.
EDIT- and before someone mentions it the "thikers still e" part must be a quoting mistake as I've looked at that post and it's not there :pac:The OP never said what bike he was on, and you never asked what bike I was on before you started talking about CBR600s
What bike you or the OP are on has nothing to do with what I said though. You said that a Garda is not a calibrated machine to test if a bike is restricted or not. I said that it's probably only used in black and white situations like 600cc+ bikes and anyone would be able to tell if something like a CBR6 was full blooded or not. Your CB definitely isn't a black and white situation.0 -
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »Tell that to the guy being told not to do 70km a day on a 125, and you didn't have to wait you chose to wait you coulda gone up north like we all did and done the course.
I had to wait, I didn't chosoe to, well for those who had the money to head north, the rest of us put what we had into the bike and insurance, when I started off my premium was £730 on a RD125 that cost £800 at the time, I was earning £3 per hour to put some perspective on that.
I really don't understand your problem, this is a good thing for us all.
If you were riding bikes back in 94, as you say you were, then you'll remember being raped year on year by Norwich Union. I sure as feck do. Year on year they rose the premium claiming driving standards and claims were out of control here.
These eegits riding around with out licenses or insurance are messing things up for us all, insurance companies are already starting to investigate even small claims from bikes.
Arguing against catching these tossers is unbelieveable, they'll make life harder and harder for the, as you call it, real bikers out there, lads who stump up insurance every year, lads who sat the test and done their time or went off and got the license somewhere else.
The guards are sick cleaning up their mess too, hence the crackdown, a lot to do with a certain chase in Cork not that long ago I'd bet.
The law's very clear about what you're allowed ride and when you're allowed ride it BTW have a read of it sometime. I completely disagree with the restriction but it is the law.
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »Show me the law that allows cops to take bikes without officially siezing it or arresting you.
Show me where I protect law breakers or support law breakers: if i needed a restriction cert I'd show it to any cop that wants, I have no issue showing my license and I keep my insurance in my jacket but no cunt gets to ride my bike without my permission and i support any rider that feels that way.
There is no law that allows a garda to take your bike without your permission, they will ask you to allow them to test the bike if they suspect it isn't restricted. If it's restriced then just show the cert or some proof of restriction, they're not out to take your bike, just enforcing the law.
You don't have to co-operate but it would make life a lot easier for both the gardai and yourself.
If you refuse then my understanding is they will impound your bike as your insurance is in doubt allowing the power for it to be seized under sec 41 of the traffic act.
If the bike isn't restricted your not allowed drive it on a restricted licence so it gets impounded as you do not hold a licence to drive it.
While it's impounded they will have one of their vehicle inspectors or mechanics check it for evidence of restriction, if it's there they would release it, if it's not then...
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The law's very clear about what you're allowed ride and when you're allowed ride it BTW have a read of it sometime. I completely disagree with the restriction but it is the law.
Ha, No its not. Have a look at the amount of threads on restrictions, with power to weight ratios do you use dry weight or laden weight and whether the way the law is worded does the "or" mean "and" or "or"
As for a cert not being a legal document doesn't make a difference, once its signed by the person that fitted it. A Cheque is just a piece of paper, a contract is just a piece of paper you wouldn't say they don't have a standing in law. A cert is just an arse covering document, that you probably will never need. But extremely valuable if you ever end up in a situation where the legality of your bike comes into question, it doesn't prove a bike is restricted but it is evidence that shows it more likely is. Judges love evidence especially paper evidence and if necessary the person who's name and signature is on it can be called to testify if the cert is valid or not.
OP if you feel your were mistreated by a Garda make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman. Only they can diffidently tell you if you were treated fairly or not.0 -
EvilMonkey wrote: »Ha, No its not. Have a look at the amount of threads on restrictions, with power to weight ratios do you use dry weight or laden weight and whether the way the law is worded does the "or" mean "and" or "or"
If you have to go to that level i doubt your bike will be pulled apart, this is more guided at superbike riders flouting the law than some innocent on a 35bhp gs500
Yes, my point was that even a cert can be challenged if the garda thinks it's false. The vast majority of the time the garda will be satisfied and send you on your way, try telling him/her their job and things change. Both cheques and contracts are legal documents BTW.EvilMonkey wrote: »As for a cert not being a legal document doesn't make a difference, once its signed by the person that fitted it
Teddy, they can take your bike, examine it and hand it back to you. If you think that would be grounds enough to even bring a case to court you're very mistaken, even then the gardai will site why his suspicions were aroused - you refusing a test and unable to supply the cert to satisfy the suspicion, judge will take a very dim view of you wasting his and the gardai's time.
Do you even understand the grounds to sue someone? Even the no win no fee lads would run a mile from a comedy like that.
The gardai are responsible for enforcing the laws of the state, you are responsible for allowing them to fulfill that duty.
Point of it all is fit the bloody things, the bike will still be 10 times more fun and excitement than any car. Once they're fitted you can rest in the knowledge that you're in the right regardless.
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EvilMonkey wrote: »Ha, No its not. Have a look at the amount of threads on restrictions, with power to weight ratios do you use dry weight or laden weight and whether the way the law is worded does the "or" mean "and" or "or"
I was gonna say.:D0 -
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »They cannot sieze your vehicle without cause, yes i understand the legal system and Judges don't take dim views of people standing for their rights.
look we are in circles here; anyone who has to have their bike restricted: please get it restricted and carry the cert.
if you believe I'm right then don't let them have a spin if you believe blade is right then do but neither of us will have any sympathy if yer riding without a license and insurance.
You don't have to let them drive the bike, said already, it just makes life a lot easier for everyone, if you had actually read my post you'd have seen that bit. The can seize the bike on suspicion etc etc, they don't need any proof just suspicion, how credible that suspicion needs to be would be up to the duty sargent but if you're talking to them you have a problem either way.
I just can't understand why have you got such a problem with the gardai doing their job? Asking to test the bike isn't abusing anyone's rights.
Judges take a dim view of people who make up their own law, everytime, believe me. Accusing a garda of a civil rights violation for asking for a ride of you bike would be something to witness in court, I could sell tickets.
You'd be in contempt from the second you or your solicitor went to speak though.
Anyhoo, it's been fun, best thread in this section for a good while, stay safe and don't mention cages lol, oops sorry;)
Totally agree with your last statement, we're ok so can argue the toss but if you're supposed to have washers in there put them in.
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Teddy Daniels wrote: »I have a problem with young bikers being made to feel they have to let a cop ride their bike and as fer cage talk; try suggesting you let them on yer bike over there ,lol.
Nothing wrong with young riders (or any age for that matter) having a little respect for the gardai, I've yet to be intimidated by a garda and I've been driving nearly 20 years.
Over there there's a more mature outlook, they have me to see to that if it's good for bikers then ok. The days of them and us are long gone, the gardai are just trying to do a job that'll benefit us all.
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Nothing wrong with young riders (or any age for that matter) having a little respect for the gardai, I've yet to be intimidated by a garda and I've been driving nearly 20 years.
Over there there's a more mature outlook, they have me to see to that if it's good for bikers then ok. The days of them and us are long gone, the gardai are just trying to do a job that'll benefit us all.
Respect has to be earned, and the yokel Garda who tries to blag a spin on a z0mg rap1d bike will get none from me.0 -
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Now where you can challenge this, is if the Garda find anything that leads them to form the opinion that the restrictor is faulty or not present, as they have no relevant qualification such as mechanic or engineers qualification to back up their opinion.
No need to challenge, they're unlikely to summons you for an offence based on the test they carry out, they will probably impound the bike on suspicion and have a garda mechanic or inspector check it.
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It would get really interesting on a fuel injection bike with a Power Commander, default map set to max out @ 33BHP but switchable to a more powerful map.
That'd be lots of fun aritey, I would imagine that would be fine though.
As long as you can show the bike could be and was restricted to 33bhp the garda won't be too bothered, it's not NCIS.
Though you should know the epprom would carry a time stamp so if the FBI ever got involved you'd be in trouble, they would probably be able to track you via gps through your phone to detect your given speed at any time -course that would cost an AWFUL lot moer than the €80 + 2pp fine lol
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