Shopping a welfare cheat

LegacyUser

Im in a bit of a moral quandrary.

A cousin of my partner who I know and get on with quite well is doing the double - an accountant by trade who works on a contract basis and doesn't declare all her income, and also runs a small sales business on the side that has done quite well in the past, all of which is cash transactions and off the books.

Tax evasion I find hard enough to stomach. But then they're also getting a big whack of rent relief thats allowing them to live virtually rent free in a swish apartment out Malahide/Portmarnock direction. Thats just the extent of welfare that they receive that I know of.

On the one hand its none of my business. They've also had a lot of personal problems in the last few years and have a fair bit of existing debt - I have quite a bit of respect for them cos they work every hour god sends on the side business presumably to clear that debt - but then thats equally tempered by the fact that they manage to maintain a fairly plush lifestyle with holidays, cars, fancy restaurants etc etc (i.e. they could be making an even bigger dent in the debt if that was what they really wanted to do).

But then I see ones who are properly struggling and it sickens me that people are getting away with it when the money could be going somewhere more deserving, shall we say.

What would anybody else do? Shop 'em or not? What are the likely implications for them if caught?

Shiny

It is your business when you are working to pay the taxes that pay
the social welfare which they are claiming.

In this case they are committing tax fraud AND welfare fraud !

Ideally they need to be reported to the social welfare and
the revenue commissioners.

Worse case, they have to pay back the money they took.

If I had to make this decision, I would only report them if they are
taking the piss and as you have pointed out, they are.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

yes, you should report these people. I work with very disadvantaged people who are struggling to make ends meet. Why should these people get away with that?Take the emotions out of the equation and think about it purely from moral perspective. That is what is wrong with this country- that whole entitlement culture It;s okay for me to dodge taxes and get away with it. I bet you those people don't feel its okay for the banks/developers to get away with what they get away with! Report them - it's only right.

taram

the conscience wrote: »

On the one hand its none of my business. They've also had a lot of personal problems in the last few years and have a fair bit of existing debt

A lot of people have problems and existing debt- it sucks, but it doesn't give them the right to take money from taxpayers.

tenchi-fan

You know what to do:

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

When I was earning 21k a year some one else i know earned 100 per day tax free cash in hand, min 3 day week, 10k dole, and lived at home with his parents. If I catch him at it again I will be reporting him, too.

LegacyUser

Does anyone know who precisely to contact to report those working but not declaring income for tax purposes?

Michael B

Is she just getting cash in hand or is she claiming dole aswell as all this cash in hand money she's getting?

Nevyn

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

Reporting Suspected Social Welfare Fraud

You can report suspected social welfare fraud anonymously by completing this form.

If you are reporting somebody for:

* working and claiming please tell us the employer’s name, when they started working, the type of work and the days worked if known.

* living with a partner and claiming One Parent Family Payment please tell us when the couple started co-habiting and children’s names and ages if known, as well as information about the partner.

* living abroad, please tell us where the person is living and when they left Ireland.

* not paying PRSI please tell us the name and address of the employer you are reporting and any other relevant information.

* not declaring means please tell us what you think has not been reported (earnings, savings, investments, any other income).

* claiming benefit for a person who is deceased or in prison please identify all persons.

* suspected identity fraud i.e. somebody using another person’s identity or a false identity please give all details available.

LegacyUser

Michael B wrote: »

Is she just getting cash in hand or is she claiming dole aswell as all this cash in hand money she's getting?

The welfare that I know she's getting is a fair whack of rent relief. I'm not sure if she's on income support etc, but if shes in a 2-bed apartment in a nice part of Portmarnock and the "welfare pays the whole lot" - then it's substantial enough to feel aggrieved about.

I've done the deed anyway. Just had the form filled in before and had the mouse hovering over the Submit button and thought.....I might garner some public opinion. I'm quite glad that I'm in the majority and am not just a meddler!

LegacyUser

Are you sure she's getting " A fair whack of rent relief"? Are you sure it isn't rent supplement? If so She won't be getting "a fair whack". She'll be getting a percentage of what her rent is as assessed by a welfare officer. Also, are you absolutely sure she's getting all this additional money from SW? It's extremely tight at the moment. I'd be surprised to be honest. Are you sure she's not just putting up a facade to mask her financial problems? Some of what you say doesn't add up...

Andy-Pandy

What happens if your partner finds out you ratted out her cousin? This person could end up being your family some day. I'd personally cut all ties with you if i found this out. Fair enough ratting out a stranger, but someone who is the family of your partner? Not cool at all.

aquascrotum

SW Man wrote: »

Are you sure she's getting " A fair whack of rent relief"? Are you sure it isn't rent supplement? If so She won't be getting "a fair whack". She'll be getting a percentage of what her rent is as assessed by a welfare officer. Also, are you absolutely sure she's getting all this additional money from SW? It's extremely tight at the moment. I'd be surprised to be honest. Are you sure she's not just putting up a facade to mask her financial problems? Some of what you say doesn't add up...

If as the OP says this person is running a business entirely out of the tax net and doesn't declare all income from her other job then surely theres a problem anyway? Even if it transpires there isn't a problem welfare wise in terms of rent, if the person is investigated and comes up clean then theres no problem surely?

What happens if your partner finds out you ratted out her cousin? This person could end up being your family some day. I'd personally cut all ties with you if i found this out. Fair enough ratting out a stranger, but someone who is the family of your partner? Not cool at all.

As not cool as this potential fraudster having our tax pay for their rent? Not much question as to who'd have the moral high ground on this one imo.

tenchi-fan

why is there a stigma of shopping welfare cheats?

Simple example.

I earn €100 and pay €30 tax. I'm left with €70.

A welfare cheat earns €100, does not pay tax, claims say €20 social welfare and €10 housing benefit. Where did that extra €30 come from??

Not only that, but I pay the health levy and private healthcare, yet they benefit from the medical card, free GP, dental, opticians, legal aid, and anything else going.

The social welfare system is already stretched to the limit without cheating it to get more. Tax evasion is just as bad because the wider the tax net the less taxpayers would have to pay.

Andy-Pandy

aquascrotum wrote: »

As not cool as this potential fraudster having our tax pay for their rent? Not much question as to who'd have the moral high ground on this one imo.

What the cousin is doing isnt right. Thats not under any doubt. But this is the family of the person i presume he loves. He will be partly responsable for causing her family lots of stress and even harder times. Would he do this to his own cousin? Stuff like this is what tears families apart, there just best left alone to be honest.

Neyite

implications if caught/reported:

an accountant has a professional obligation to act ethically in business. that means that the person will get struck off as an accountant and will not be able to practice accountancy. so their career is over.

refunding any benefits that they are not entitled to back to the Social Welfare.

imprisonment /fines or criminal conviction for tax evasion.

however, you might double check that the person is legit - for example, Revenue allow secondary income from your own business up to a certain limit (hazy on the exact details at the mo) to be tax free, also, there are certain rent/mortgage reliefs that are allowable.

to arrange your affairs in a certain way to reduce tax liablility (tax avoidance) is legal, evasion is not. a good accountant knows how to reduce tax liability legally - is it possible that this is what the person is doing?

i dont like system cheats either, but i find it unbelievable a qualified accountant would risk their livelihood both by doing it, and more stupidly, bragging about it, especially since it takes so many years to qualifiy.