Are vendors keeping prices high as a buffer against expected haggling?

pburns

I could have sworn I saw this apt offered for less within the last week or so. Also, it's more expensive than higher apts currently advertised by the developer!

www.daft.ie/1519280

More to the point, one bedrooms (ONE bedroom!) in this complex are still guided at anything from 249,000 to 289,000! I know it's a decent enough area but :eek:...Now here's the thing - I know of someone who bought a similar 1 bed apt in the same area (not sure same development) and claims to have paid under 200 only a few months ago.

Is there a hype machine trying to create another mini-bubble (saw a headline in the Indo last weekend saying a good time to buy - with the caveat 'if you have the money:rolleyes:) Is the amount shaved off from asking prices really that big (by my reckoning up to 20% and more...) Or are they hoping for the odd fool to come along and pay full or almost asking price and balance out the ones they have to let go cheaper (cos I bet it happens).

It just seems that there is a big gulf generally between asking prices and what you hear anecdotally...

testicle

If the first that they could think of on the feature list was friendly neighbours, i'd knock a hundred grand off straight away!

You didn't search much!

1 beds - 172k - http://www.daft.ie/1469152
2 beds - 236k - http://www.daft.ie/1469151
3 beds - 300k - http://www.daft.ie/1469153

Yes, I know they're "afffordable housing" but it's the same appartment after all! Its where you should be aiming for.

SoupyNorman

We cannot yet determine a 'high' or 'low' price as we are in the middle of a correction of the market.

The market may stabilize in the next few months and the guide price for that apt could turn out to be it's true market value. Is this likely?.... Of course not. We are not in a freefall of property prices but we are in a fall, a gradual gradient down.

EA's are vultures, just like vultures in the wild would swoop on a vulnerable calf in the wild EA's will try to exploit any opportunity to swoop on you.

They will always operate at the very upper limits of the market, after all the higher the Sale agreed price the higher the commission and lets not forget the vendor they are working on behalf of, they are looking for the highest possible price.

€380k for a 2bed in Dundrum, even the dumbest of folk out there would not part with that kind of cash for an apartment. A bout of location snobbery (on a side note, you could'nt pay me to live in Dundrum), patience is the key here as a watched pot never boils to used a classic phrase.

Vendors and EA's cannot control what the upper price limit is, this is determined by market movements and right now the market is moving down so we are seeing the guide prices caressing the cheekiest asking prices possible.

No matter the market condition the seller in question will always add in a haggling buffer, well that is why it is called a guide price si I do not believe that the kind of buffer you speak of relates directly to the current market. People were haggling pre-boom.

In general, just sit tight and you'll see prices fall on a natural course as it is unstoppable.

Oliver1985

Of course they are I got 25k off when i bought my apartment, but you do have people who wont even try get money off!!

johndaman66

SoupyNorman wrote: »

They will always operate at the very upper limits of the market, after all the higher the Sale agreed price the higher the commission and lets not forget the vendor they are working on behalf of, they are looking for the highest possible price.

I hear and appreciate what you are saying SoupyNorman. No doubt Estate Agents are vultures generally but would add that there is an element of lazyiness there too quite often. The higher the sale price the higher the commission but I'd be shocked and surprised if there are situations where they won't advise a vendor to accept a lower selling price in order to close a sale quickly and have their commission in the bank. I am talking about situations where they genuinely believe the property could command a higher price if left on the market for longer. Lets face it, in the scheme of things their commission won't change dramatically if they sell for 280k as oppossed to 300k. They will save on further advertising costs too I'm sure in such situations. Although these guys have the interests of the vendor in mind or at least are meant to, no doubt their own interests are higher up the pecking order to them

pburns

testicle wrote: »

If the first that they could think of on the feature list was friendly neighbours, i'd knock a hundred grand off straight away!

You didn't search much!

1 beds - 172k - http://www.daft.ie/1469152
2 beds - 236k - http://www.daft.ie/1469151
3 beds - 300k - http://www.daft.ie/1469153

Yes, I know they're "afffordable housing" but it's the same appartment after all! Its where you should be aiming for.

I saw those prices and the real valuation I would put on an apt in the SoCoDub (as a non-qualifier) would be only slightly north of that.

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Of course they are I got 25k off when i bought my apartment, but you do have people who wont even try get money off!!

Good for you - there ARE dumb people out there - I've seen it play out before my eyes (and I wasn't the one who benefited);). At this level though I'd be expecting more than 25k off.

johndaman66 wrote: »

No doubt Estate Agents are vultures generally but would add that there is an element of lazyiness there too quite often. The higher the sale price the higher the commission but I'd be shocked and surprised if there are situations where they won't advise a vendor to accept a lower selling price in order to close a sale quickly and have their commission in the bank.

Have you been reading Malcolm Gladwell:)?

johndaman66

pburns wrote: »

Have you been reading Malcolm Gladwell:)?

Can't say I have pburns. Does it make for good reading?

Freddie59

SoupyNorman wrote: »

we are in the middle of a correction of the market.

Funny one that. Some people see it for what it actually is - a full-blown property crash. Some new builds have 'relaunched' recently, looking for 2007 prices. Fat chance. Thank God. When will they learn. Hopefully OUR banks won't be stupid enough this time around to fund it. And hopefully buyers will also get a grip.

pburns

johndaman66 wrote: »

Can't say I have pburns. Does it make for good reading?

Actually now that I think of it, not sure whether it was Gladwell or one of those 'freakonomic' type books. Anyway, statistics in US showed that real estate agents - on average - received considerably better prices when selling their own home than when selling for clients. It makes relatively little difference to the EA's commission if he/she has to wait a month for another 20 grand. They're focus is on closing, getting their cut and moving on. Of course, it can make a big difference to the seller. Very obvious, common sense stuff but interesting to see it developed...

Idbatterim

I currently live in an apartment in dundrum and lived in beacon court in sandyford, prior to that I lived in the family home in churchtown pretty much all my life. In relation to the affordable housing scheme, apartments bought through this scheme on a 30 year mortgage are about half the cost of renting the same apartment AT THE MOMENT. But regardless of the argument of whether they are over or undervalued, I couldnt care less about that. Is there a good chance, they will be cheaper in 1,2 or 3 years time? yes. Do i know for certain no. For me currently renting and paying even double the cost of buying is a good strategy, as god knows how much I am actually saving myself in the short - medium term. I mention where I am from because I know the area very well, monitor rent and sale prices frequently and keep an eye on boards.ie the property pin etc. Take a read of the below from todays independent!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/councils-face-bankruptcy-over-deals-struck-on-housing-during-the-boom-2151717.html

Buying now is moronic in my opinion! Anyone who keeps an eye on current affairs etc will know just how volatile things in this country are right now!

Idbatterim

in relation to the apartment going for 380k LOL! LOL! Id hazard a guess it was bought off the plans in 05,06 etc, the investor paid way more than it is worth and is now trying to offload it without taking any or too much of a hit! well tough **** to whoever it is! In my honest opinion a decent 1 bed apartment in a decent area is worth up to 150k, that in my opinion is a figure I would say in semi sane. Dont forget by the time you pay that off with interest it will be in and around double that figure! I think people need to think long and hard about what they are getting themselves into!

pburns

OK - here's one:
www.daft.ie/1524476
:eek:

Candidate for worst value property in Ireland? Owner after returning in a time machine from 2006? Dead cat bounce?

Eglinton

pburns wrote: »

OK - here's one:
www.daft.ie/1524476
:eek:

Candidate for worst value property in Ireland? Owner after returning in a time machine from 2006? Dead cat bounce?

You should check out this one!

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=417363&search=1

I'm sure anyone familiar with Sandyford Industrial Estate will certainly agree with this description...

Beacon South Quarter is the first development to be designed for how life is really lived. The development contains stunning architecturally designed apartments finished to the highest of standards and located beside designer shops, buzzing bars, upmarket restaurants and a dynamic cultural centre.

Buzzing bars? - The only buzzing you'll hear around there on a Saturday night is from the sound of the unfinished electricity transformers.

Duckjob

My personal favorite:
www.daft.ie/1457113

Always gives me a chuckle when I see it. There's 3 bed houses going for nearly half that in the area, so you would think common sense might prevail, but no:

I WILL get my bubble price for you !!! <shakes fist at screen> SELL DAMN YOU!!!

:pac:

mathie

Saw a house where the EA told us that they recommended they list at 400K.
The vendors decided to list at 430K in order to get closer to 'what they wanted' (this wasn't divulged)

markpb

Eglinton wrote: »

You should check out this one! http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=417363&search=1

I'm crying with laughter into my corn flakes here.

Beacon South Quarter is as lively at night as it is impressive by day

Never a truer word was spoken!

astrofool

Salesperson prices a good higher to leave greater room for haggling.

What's the issue here?

Duckjob

astrofool wrote: »

Salesperson prices a good higher to leave greater room for haggling.

What's the issue here?

The issue is a lot of potential buyers will be turned off and not want to waste time with a seller who is so far out of touch with the market in which they wish to engage.

For example with the property I quoted previously, the seller would want to cut his price in half before I would consider haggling with him. Not a hope in hell I would haggle from 480K.

ToxicPaddy

I have to agree, if you're a first time buyer and you have a mortgage approved for say €320-€350k, do you honestly think they are going to even consider an apt at €400k+ when there are probably 5 or 6 places in the same area, possible same block for 20% less?? And even then I think those ones are overpriced!!

Those sellers are so out of touch with reality that they need professional help!!

pburns

OK, here's what I was talking about when I started this thread (from another thread - 'Signed for house - Today')
Asking price was 325k - he got it for...
270k.

Now I'm not saying that's the bottomed-out price but it's kinda where I'd be aiming for with guide prices (i.e. knock off at least 20% and bargain from there).

Fair dues to the OP of the other thread for sharing this.:)

Now could anyone who MUST buy in the current climate please follow this guideline? 'Cos I know of two 'fools' who unecessarily paid close to guide for a property recently. One was a (naive) fried of mine who paid €245k for a single-bed in Dundrum.:eek:

- 'Did you not bargain' says I?
- 'But she said she wouldn't take less'::rolleyes::mad:

Another was a woman who bidded against me for a house. The EA arranged it so we were viewing it at the same time and she paniced. See there are eejits out there - keeping the guide price high works for the odd gob****e who comes along.

So people BARGIN HARD!!! 'Cos if you don't it just keeps prices high for the rest of us...

Eglinton

pburns wrote: »

One was a (naive) fried of mine who paid €245k for a single-bed in Dundrum.:eek:

- 'Did you not bargain' says I?
- 'But she said she wouldn't take less'::rolleyes::mad:

Ouch, ouch, ouch. As much as I don't like apartments, there are 2 and possibly 3 bed apartments not far from Dundrum advertised at that same price. Naiive is an understatement. I almost feel pity for her.

Tell me this, does she drive a Mini or Peugeot? (out of pure nosiness on my part )

pburns

Eglinton wrote: »

Ouch, ouch, ouch. As much as I don't like apartments, there are 2 and possibly 3 bed apartments not far from Dundrum advertised at that same price. Naiive is an understatement. I almost feel pity for her.

Tell me this, does she drive a Mini or Peugeot? (out of pure nosiness on my part )

It's a bloke actually (although his taste in cars is a bit girly!)

In fairness, the apts I'm talking about are still guide-priced in the same range (Wyckham Point) but TBH, even with 20% off they'd be a bit on the dear side. To add insult to injury there's a whole new block 90% finished, unsold and abandoned.

I rang to put a bid on the house mentioned above. I could almost hear the glee in the EA's voice as he said he had a bid for almost full-asking. He couldn't believe it himself - it was on the market a few weeks and a complete anomoly because it stands out like a sore thumb in his window as the only 'Sale Agreed'. He told me the lady in question was 'recently seperated' so I reckon she was...vulnerable...

EAs eh:rolleyes:?