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Greece Finally Call the IMF

  • 23-04-2010 04:16PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0423/greece.html

    Eu / IMF rescue package for greece has been set in motion. As we see our own debt crisis spiralling out of control I wonder how long we will be able to hold off before we have to cry for help too. Angela Merkel said there will be alot of strings attached to the bailout, it will be interesting to see what these are, given that we may be going down this route eventually.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    mickeyk wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0423/greece.html

    Eu / IMF rescue package for greece has been set in motion. As we see our own debt crisis spiralling out of control I wonder how long we will be able to hold off before we have to cry for help too. Angela Merkel said there will be alot of strings attached to the bailout, it will be interesting to see what these are, given that we may be going down this route eventually.

    IMF strings tend to be more like shackles and chains.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Sandvich


    Greece as a country is now finished.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Sandvich wrote: »
    Greece as a country is now finished.
    I'd like to think that if we call the IMF we won't be finished, UK called them in the 70's. Lets hope it doesn't come to that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    mickeyk wrote: »
    I'd like to think that if we call the IMF we won't be finished, UK called them in the 70's. Lets hope it doesn't come to that.

    Greece is now paying the price for decades of rampant corruption then again who are we in Ireland to lecture others about corruption.

    Greece should also be kicked out of the Euro and the EU, they deliberately falsfied the state of the public finances back in 2001 in order to get into the Eurozone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Erren Music


    mickeyk wrote: »
    I'd like to think that if we call the IMF we won't be finished, UK called them in the 70's. Lets hope it doesn't come to that.

    We are finished. Biffo and his ship of fools are still borrowing 60 to 70 million a day. They seem to overlook that debt will have to be paid back.

    We need to see the 3 and 6 month mortgage default numbers, not just over 1 year and the credit card debt figures. We also need honest unemployment figures.


    This gov just continues to ignore what is actually happening.

    In 2 years our debt will be over 150 billion excluding the joke Nama is.

    Whats this place gonna be like when 20% + of GDP is paying interest only, and 1 million are unemployed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    We are finished. Biffo and his ship of fools are still borrowing 60 to 70 million a day. They seem to overlook that debt will have to be paid back.

    We need to see the 3 and 6 month mortgage default numbers, not just over 1 year and the credit card debt figures. We also need honest unemployment figures.


    This gov just continues to ignore what is actually happening.

    In 2 years our debt will be over 150 billion excluding the joke Nama is.

    Whats this place gonna be like when 20% + of GDP is paying interest only, and 1 million are unemployed.

    The sooner the IMF come into this country the better, the political establishment in Ireland doesn't have the guts to take the necessary financial measures in order to save this country from ruin so therefore a short shock financial therappy coutesy of the IMF is what's needed to save this country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    The sooner the IMF come into this country the better, the political establishment in Ireland doesn't have the guts to take the necessary financial measures in order to save this country from ruin so therefore a short shock financial therappy coutesy of the IMF is what's needed to save this country.

    "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

    The IMF coming in is nothing to look forward to, at all.

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

    The IMF coming in is nothing to look forward to, at all.

    Nate

    Agreed the IMF are ruthless bastards but it may be whats required from a long term perspective in order to teach our politicians how to run a country properly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Of course it's the events leading up to the IMF being called in that's the problem. A worse situation for Greece would be the IMF not agreeing to a bailout having been requested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    Agreed the IMF are ruthless bastards but it may be whats required from a long term perspective in order to teach our politicians how to run a country properly.

    You can bet that the one group of people that will least affected by the IMF rolling into town, will be the politicians. It'll be you and me getting in the rear, not them.

    That said their arrival is all but inevitable.

    Nate


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    You can bet that the one group of people that will least affected by the IMF rolling into town, will be the politicians. It'll be you and me getting in the rear, not them.

    That said their arrival is all but inevitable.

    Nate

    Agreed our selfish politicians will do anything to save their own skin, your absolutely right It would be absolutely brutal for all of us if the IMF are called into the country but it is necessary from a long term perspective, sure our politicians will be thought lessons in how to run a conuntry and how to put aside money for a rainy day.

    We are going to have to make huge sacrifices if future generations are to have to chance here in Ireland. On Greece I can only imagine on what draconian measures the IMF will impose, the Greek public sector will go on strike but ultimately it will be futile as large pay cuts will be brutally imposed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Aaah nice one.

    The auld Greeks thinking they could survive without producing stuff that people want!!

    Countries survive by selling stuff that other people pay for, and keep their costs down, and not lie back in the sun and tan your hole.

    Greeks thought they could lie back ,produce nothing, pay themselves megabucks, take huge salaries to run the public service.Fantastic conditions.


    Heh heh... doesn't work like that.


    Europe won't pay for you to sit on your hole and do nothing.


    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Greece should also be kicked out of the Euro and the EU, they deliberately falsfied the state of the public finances back in 2001 in order to get into the Eurozone.
    It's highly unlikely that they'll be kicked out of the eurozone - the EU and ECB will know the crisis of confidence in the currency that would cause (perversely one might say, but that's what would happen). In four years time I suspect they'll be busy with inflationary matters anyway but that's just my current gut feeling.

    In 1997 my considered view on eurozone admittance was that the EU should let into the eurozone any EU member states that wanted to join, except for Greece. I called this the modified hippy approach to membership; it's a shame it wasn't followed. That and the difficulties with potential asymmetric economic shocks and a lack of a formal transfer system via the ECB compared to the Federal Reserve system which allows for it. People rarely listen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    This post has been deleted.


    I'm already terrified of the prospect of Labour in government, one can only imagine the stupid policies that Gilmore will come out with in government.

    Things that need to happen in Ireland.

    1) Welfare cuts of 20-25% including the OAP, one parent family payment, job seekers allowance, fuel allowance, rent allowance, back to school allowance, it has to be done lets be honest here. welfare is far too generous here in Ireland.

    2) Mass privatisation of semi state companies, government should not be in the business of running business, the public sector couldn't organise a piss up in a pub let alone run a business.

    3) Public sector pay cuts of between 20-35%, at least 70,000 possibily 100,000 public sector redundancies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    This post has been deleted.

    Don't get me wrong, I know the changes that will be imposed are necessary and that out government haven't got the balls to implement them. But I do not for a second believe they will be easy, or that the impact will be confined to the public sector, for you to suggest such is naive.

    The IMF may deliver a short sharp correction to spending, but the impact of this will be horrific, for everybody.

    It also seems unavoidable......

    Nate


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    sceptre wrote: »

    In 1997 my considered view on eurozone admittance was that the EU should let into the eurozone any EU member states that wanted to join, except for Greece. I called this the modified hippy approach to membership; it's a shame it wasn't followed. That and the difficulties with potential asymmetric economic shocks and a lack of a formal transfer system via the ECB compared to the Federal Reserve system which allows for it. People rarely listen.


    :eek::eek:


    Legend !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Don't get me wrong, I know the changes that will be imposed are necessary and that out government haven't got the balls to implement them. But I do not for a second believe they will be easy, or that the impact will be confined to the public sector, for you to suggest such is naive.

    The IMF may deliver a short sharp correction to spending, but the impact of this will be horrific, for everybody.

    It also seems unavoidable......

    Nate


    Agreed. Put 100k Public workers out of work and slash the salary of the remainder and there will be a huge knock on effect. There will be thousands of people not spending money and that will cause job losses in the private sector. I'm not saying it can't be done, but no one should believe for a moment that this will be easy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

    The IMF coming in is nothing to look forward to, at all.

    Nate
    certainly not if you are one of the highest paid public servants in the world , and your friends in fianna fail / fine gael / labour not able to screw the private sector any more on your behalf


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    This post has been deleted.

    For a libertarian you're leaning a bit heavily towards a controlled and heavily regulated market there, don't you think?

    Don't fall over ... :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I'm already terrified of the prospect of Labour in government, one can only imagine the stupid policies that Gilmore will come out with in government.

    Is the phrase "can't be any worse" still regarded as "populist rubbish", or can we finally admit that it's a fact ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    This post has been deleted.

    Because... click


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭strathspey


    This post has been deleted.
    To be quite honest, this argument of 'could you trust FG/LP to do any better than FF' is total croc. In the realm of meritocracy, FF have completely failed and in a private organisation would be demoted, therefore the next encumbents, being FG or LP should be promoted. You either believe in the concept of meritocracy or if you belong to the civil service, then you probably don't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    This paper is interesting. Just skip past the technical stuff.
    IMF Programs: Who Is Chosen and What Are the Effects?

    Robert J. Barro, Harvard University

    Abstract:

    IMF loans react to economic conditions but are also sensitive to political-economy variables. Loans tend to be larger and more frequent when a country has a bigger quota and more professional staff at the IMF and when a country is more connected politically and economically to the United States and other major shareholding countries of the IMF. These results are of considerable interest for their own sake. More importantly for present purposes, the results provide instrumental variables for estimating the effects of IMF loan programs on economic growth and other variables. This instrumental estimation allows us to sort out the economic effects of the loan programs from the responses of IMF lending to economic conditions. The estimates show that a higher IMF loan participation rate reduces economic growth. IMF lending also lowers investment but raises international openness. In addition, greater involvement in IMF programs tends to lower the rule of law and democracy. We conclude that the typical country would be better off economically if it committed itself not to be involved with IMF loan programs.

    http://dspace.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/40130/2/wp-econ-2003-09.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Because... click

    Does this come in a synopsis for normal people (i.e. non-economists) as well?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    peasant wrote: »
    Does this come in a synopsis for normal people (i.e. non-economists) as well?

    I'm afraid not, however, if I just want to get the gist of an economic paper I read the abstract, the introduction and the conclusion. Give that a try.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    This post has been deleted.

    The alternative is a national governement of competent people (i.e very few of the current politicians) who will make IMF style cuts and re-organise the country.
    Difference to IMF intervention would be that these cuts could be shaped to suit us and not just cut for cuts sake.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    peasant wrote: »
    Does this come in a synopsis for normal people (i.e. non-economists) as well?

    +1

    I didn't get far past the first line of the abstract
    Using a bivariate, dynamic version of the Heckman selection model....


This discussion has been closed.
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