Rapeseed oil in desiel motor

gazzaman22

Lads, Anyone know if this is a good idea....i've a 2 litre td 1998 toyota avensis....
Would it be advisable to use this stuff in it....

I Know the main benefits would be price compared to deisel, But anybody know cons for this....
Thanks in advance

Matt Simis

gazzaman22 wrote: »

Lads, Anyone know if this is a good idea....i've a 2 litre td 1998 toyota avensis....
Would it be advisable to use this stuff in it....

I Know the main benefits would be price compared to deisel, But anybody know cons for this....
Thanks in advance

Do a search for SVO in Diesel and you will get lots of info. Try to find someone with the same engine who has tried it.

Whats the cost of the Rapeseed Oil (aka Canola Oil) anyhow?

Andrew33

gazzaman22 wrote: »

Lads, Anyone know if this is a good idea....i've a 2 litre td 1998 toyota avensis....
Would it be advisable to use this stuff in it....

I Know the main benefits would be price compared to deisel, But anybody know cons for this....
Thanks in advance

I certainly wouldn't run it 100% on rapeseed oil, maybe mix it 10-15% with reg diesel. Diesel has lubricating properties which the rapeseed might not.

JHMEG

Also, don't confuse biodiesel with rapeseed oil. Biodiesel can safely be used as a replacement for diesel, and may be made from rapeseed oil.

alias no.9

The biggest question is what kind of injector pump you have, would you be able to identify this yourself under the bonnet? If it's a mechanically controlled Bosch, then you've got the best chance of getting it to run ok. An electroincally controlled Bosch (is there an engine management light on the dashboard?) gets trickier. A Lucas pump needs significant modifications to ensure that there is sufficient lubrication. There is an outside chance that it is a Nippon Denso pump but I'm not sure how these operate on SVO.

alias no.9

alias no.9 wrote: »

The biggest question is what kind of injector pump you have, would you be able to identify this yourself under the bonnet? If it's a mechanically controlled Bosch, then you've got the best chance of getting it to run ok. An electroincally controlled Bosch (is there an engine management light on the dashboard?) gets trickier. A Lucas pump needs significant modifications to ensure that there is sufficient lubrication. There is an outside chance that it is a Nippon Denso pump but I'm not sure how these operate on SVO.

this and if its indirect injection or direct

Gregor Samsa

gazzaman22 wrote: »

I Know the main benefits would be price compared to diesel, But anybody know cons for this....

Just remember, that any fuel you use in a vehicle has to have duty paid on it. So even if you can buy cooking oil in the supermarket cheap, or old oil from a chipper, technically you'd have to pay extra duty on it if you stick it in your car.

If you were dipped by Customs, you'd have to show that you paid the duty. Probably still cheaper than diesel, but it's up to you to do the calculations (both regarding the price, and the likelihood of getting caught if you didn't comply).

gazzaman22

JHMEG wrote: »

Also, don't confuse biodiesel with rapeseed oil. Biodiesel can safely be used as a replacement for diesel, and may be made from rapeseed oil.

Hi Thanks for reply,

I've since found out its Biodeisel
So it should be just a straight swap should it?
Any reg's to comply with for customs?
I see now that i would have to pay duty...how would or where would i do this?
The price i've found it at in culloville(northern Ireland) is about 90 cent a litre

JHMEG

Biodiesel is meant to be used in standard diesel engines and is thus distinct from the vegetable and waste oils.

You are free to buy fuels in NI.

peasant

JHMEG wrote: »

Biodiesel is meant to be used in standard diesel engines

Not in all of them though.

"biodiesel" is RME (RapeseedMethylEster) and as such it is fairly aggressive stuff with a habit of attacking rubbers and silicones.
If you have an old diesel, make sure that the manufacturer has cleared it for RME use, if not, the biodiesel will eat the fuel lines and seals in your injection pump in a pretty short time and that'll cost you dearly in the end.

alias no.9

Deleted User wrote: »

this and if its indirect injection or direct

A 1998 Toyota is indirect injection. They skipped a couple of generations of diesel technology when they launched the D4D.

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

Not in all of them though.

Biodiesel has to be approved to EN 14214. If it is it can be used in any diesel engine. If it's not approved to that it can't be called biodiesel.

While biodiesel can contain rapeseed oil, it can also be made for a variety of other oils. There is no guarantee that it will contain rapeseed oil.

peasant

JHMEG wrote: »

Biodiesel has to be approved to EN 14214. If it is it can be used in any diesel engine. If it's not approved to that it can't be called biodiesel.

Doesn't change the fact though that your engine (or rather the rubbers used in it) has to be biodiesel approved in the first place (all newer ones are)

I know for sure that mine isn't and I also know for sure that if I were to use pure biodiesel it would be non operational to broken within about two tankfulls of the stuff.

245

peasant wrote: »

Doesn't change the fact though that your engine (or rather the rubbers used in it) has to be biodiesel approved in the first place (all newer ones are)

I dunno - Subaru expressly forbid the use of biodiesel in their diesel.

As far as I remember, Peugeot don't allow straight biodiesel in their HDi engines - a mix up to a certain percentage is ok (maybe 20%, I can't remember exactly) but straight biodiesel is a no no.

tubsy78

The Rapeseed oil used in the indirect injection engine should be fine in summer however it thickens in winter and shouldn,t be used if not pre-heated.In newer common rail high pressure diesels however ,they cannot be used AND ARE NOT COVERED UNDER MANUFACTURERS WARRA:pac::pac:NTY

dunsandin

Veggie oil is great in old merc diesels. Thats about it on that topic. If you mix it 10% in a vw 1.9, you might get away with it for a while. Back when I was an impoverished starter upper, I ran my vans on whatever was cheapest. That splendid mix included a lot of green diesel(A visit from 5 large customs men forced all sorts of hidden tank shenanigans), a great deal of kerosene mixed with 10% veggie, (apparently when Isuzu offered a 3 year warranty on its troopers sales shot up in monaghan as the boys realised they could run on straight kero/veg mix, and if it died, Isuzu would pick up the tab!) A lot of stations up there sold more veggie oil than any Tesco! And then, growing tired of the pain in the head of working out what was running on what, and what to mix with what, and large fines from Customs and Excise, I decided to run on Road diesel. And claim the Vat back. And guess what, it was a lot less hassle, great peace of mind, and probably cheaper. Have you seen the price of veggie in the shops these days? Not to mention the hassle of getting rid of the hundreds of bl00dy plastic veg oil bottles. Burn diesel, its better for your engine, and better for your peace of mind. And you dont smell like a chippers.

Stinicker

The Diesel engine as originally designed by Rudolf Diesel in Germany was to run off several fuel types, including Vegetable oil and even coal dust. Coal ground to tiny micron size and mixed with either Water or another liquid will fire in the chamber of a diesel engine due to the high pressure and enormous heat generated. Obviously pourn coal dust into any normal car engineer and you will brick it as they are designed for Diesel only.

However large ship engines and mega excavators like found in mines will soon in the future be running their diesel engines on coal particles due to the heavy costs of Diesel for excavatars and bunker fuel for steam turbine fueled ships. The mega cargo carriers of tomorrow will be be fueled by either coal in Diesel engine or mini Nuclear reactors but the future of petroleum as a fuel is limited due to its enormous cost and poor energy security and sheer volatility of supply from hostile countries where the Oil reserves are located.

dunsandin

Stinicker wrote: »

The Diesel engine as originally designed by Rudolf Diesel in Germany was to run off several fuel types, including Vegetable oil and even coal dust. Coal ground to tiny micron size and mixed with either Water or another liquid will fire in the chamber of a diesel engine due to the high pressure and enormous heat generated. Obviously pourn coal dust into any normal car engineer and you will brick it as they are designed for Diesel only.

However large ship engines and mega excavators like found in mines will soon in the future be running their diesel engines on coal particles due to the heavy costs of Diesel for excavatars and bunker fuel for steam turbine fueled ships. The mega cargo carriers of tomorrow will be be fueled by either coal in Diesel engine or mini Nuclear reactors but the future of petroleum as a fuel is limited due to its enormous cost and poor energy security and sheer volatility of supply from hostile countries where the Oil reserves are located.

So Now! There you have it. I'm off to run a lump or two of Polish slack through me kenco machine as we speak. I think it will work fine, probably need a change of filters a bit sooner than before, but no other problems that I can see. A WINNER METHINKS. This time next year Rodney.........

Stinicker

dunsandin wrote: »

So Now! There you have it. I'm off to run a lump or two of Polish slack through me kenco machine as we speak. I think it will work fine, probably need a change of filters a bit sooner than before, but no other problems that I can see. A WINNER METHINKS. This time next year Rodney.........

You shouldn't be so quick to criticise poor old Rodney you know:D

http://theoildrum.com/node/2249

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

Doesn't change the fact though that your engine (or rather the rubbers used in it) has to be biodiesel approved in the first place (all newer ones are)

I know for sure that mine isn't and I also know for sure that if I were to use pure biodiesel it would be non operational to broken within about two tankfulls of the stuff.

Including biodiesel that doesn't contain rapeseed oil?

peasant

JHMEG wrote: »

Including biodiesel that doesn't contain rapeseed oil?

That I'm not 100% sure of ...for my engine I wouldn't risk it though.

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

That I'm not 100% sure of ...for my engine I wouldn't risk it though.

I think like with E85 there are a lot of myths and urban legends going around, esp in relation to rubber hoses being eaten. Petrol is more corrosive than ethanol, and I would imagine the same is true for diesel vs biodiesel.

My only concerns about biodiesel would be all viscosity related. I'd like to actually see a rubber hose that has been allegedly eaten by biodiesel (or E85 for that matter).

louis346789

I have being using 100 % biodiesel in a 2004 volvo v70 since aug september. about 20000 miles and i dont see any adverse reactions YET !!!!. only problem was in Dec Jan due to low temp of -5 the biodiesel gelled. Solution was to put lamp under car until temp rose and it got going. thereafter i put 10 l of normal diesel every two fills.

CJhaughey

JHMEG wrote: »

Petrol is more corrosive than ethanol, and I would imagine the same is true for diesel vs biodiesel.

Ethanol is hygroscopic in nature and in a climate such as Irelands the risk of ethanol absorbing large amounts of water and the consequent corrosive effects have yet to be felt.

kinvara64

I am also thinking of going the bio route . I would like to know what ratio to use . Also does the bio diesel have yo be pre heated. Have access to some free bio from time to time !! legally !! Thanks