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Public v Private Sector

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Moved to Irish economy- not a taxation matter.

    Also before you go off on your rant
    The data excludes the effect of the public sector pension levy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭murf313


    MCannon wrote: »
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/official-figures-show-disparity-between-public-and-private-sector-wage-growth-454888.html

    Check this link. Look at the difference in theaverage wages. I can't beleive that public sector workers can complain in the slightest about their situation. The most overpaid useless t*ssers the world has ever known
    oh great another bashing thread......

    at least get your facts right before you go off on your little childish rant :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭aoboa


    What's the % of third level qualified people in the the public and private sectors?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    930 eur per week average? I think not. The average wage in the PS is about 35k a year which is NOT 930 per week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    aoboa wrote: »
    What's the % of third level qualified people in the the public and private sectors?

    That really shouldn't be an indicator. You cannot remain competitive by paying people based on their qualification, if a job/skill does not require those qualifications. An admin job should be paid an admin competitive wage irrespective of whether or not you have a doctorate :)

    A skill set/requirement breakdown would be very interesting though... but then of course the problem is matching across varied sectors..

    I suspect any data produced could as usual be spun to prove whatever point someone was trying to make.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    On average, public sector workers tend to be better qualified, with 59 per cent holding some type of third-level qualification compared to 33 per cent of workers in the private sector. Public sector workers also have more work experience, an average of 20 years compared to 16 years for private sector workers. In addition, a higher proportion of public sector workers are in professional and associate professional occupations. All these factors would support public sector workers having higher earnings.

    http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/2262/27906/1/WP270.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭aoboa


    EF wrote: »


    So the public sector are approx 150% more qualified than the private sector.
    Interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    930 eur per week average? I think not. The average wage in the PS is about 35k a year which is NOT 930 per week.

    Really, where you get the figure of 35k being the average? the official figures say otherwise, so where do you get your figures from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Ae but the fact of the matter is that the private sector drives the economy while the public sector are nothing but leeches on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭aoboa


    Ae but the fact of the matter is that the private sector drives the economy while the public sector are nothing but leeches on it.


    Both are necessary.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    <i didnt read the report>

    But thats what I meant .. the PS will have proportionally more higher qualified positions by virtue of the type of work it does.. The PrS include retail, restaurants and a plethora of other positions that would generally not require a 3rd level education.

    In order to understand the equality of compensation, you need to look at the comparative pay for similar qualified positions. In that respect the often quoted (I'll try and dig up a link, but I can neither vouch for or refute the correctness), is that the ESRI (iirc) put PS pay at a 23% premium over PrS pay (not including pension which recent studies suggest adding another 25-30%)..

    True or not.. I have no idea..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭aoboa


    Welease wrote: »
    <i didnt read the report>

    But thats what I meant .. the PS will have proportionally more higher qualified positions by virtue of the type of work it does.. The PrS include retail, restaurants and a plethora of other positions that would generally not require a 3rd level education.

    In order to understand the equality of compensation, you need to look at the comparative pay for similar qualified positions. In that respect the often quoted (I'll try and dig up a link, but I can neither vouch for or refute the correctness), is that the ESRI (iirc) put PS pay at a 23% premium over PrS pay (not including pension which recent studies suggest adding another 25-30%)..

    True or not.. I have no idea..

    Exactly - the average wage isn't comparable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    930 eur per week average? I think not. The average wage in the PS is about 35k a year which is NOT 930 per week.

    I think the unions stated below 35K was low paid, not that it was the average pay in the PS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    aoboa wrote: »
    Exactly - the average wage isn't comparable.

    Oh absolutely.. it can't possibly be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Really, where you get the figure of 35k being the average? the official figures say otherwise, so where do you get your figures from?


    I can't quote figures unfortunately as this one came from a mix of experience and connections I have in the PS. From what I know about public sector wages, 930 a week just sounds way, WAY off. You can disbelieve me if you wish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭SpodoKamodo


    Adjusting the 930 euro to include the pension levy, what would the net figure be? Don't know the %.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    I can't quote figures unfortunately as this one came from a mix of experience and connections I have in the PS. From what I know about public sector wages, 930 a week just sounds way, WAY off. You can disbelieve me if you wish.

    These are the official figures compiled by the CSO, of course I will believe them and not you just because you know some people in the PS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    These are the official figures compiled by the CSO, of course I will believe them and not you just because you know some people in the PS.


    I don't particularly care what you choose to believe but you would do well to take figures with a pinch of salt. A good statistician can skew numbers to say alot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    Average don't tell you alot.

    2 cleaners, 2 engineers and 2 senior managers..... what would presenting the average of these really tell you (apart from the average;))?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    changes wrote: »
    Average don't tell you alot.

    2 cleaners, 2 engineers and 2 senior managers..... what would presenting the average of these really tell you (apart from the average;))?

    That its the HSE? 1/3 being managers :p (sorry couldnt resist)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭SpodoKamodo


    changes wrote: »
    Average don't tell you alot.

    2 cleaners, 2 engineers and 2 senior managers..... what would presenting the average of these really tell you (apart from the average;))?

    This is true in the fact that it won't tell you too much about individuals in the sample (due to outliers).

    However, I would believe that the presence of outliers that would skew the average would be more prominent in the private sector (the uber wealthy that the people in the PS unions seem to want to be taxed more heavily so that they don't have to take cuts).

    So the only reason I could see for the higher average wage in the PS would be too many working at management level and above, or maybe remuneration levels being too high across the board.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    aoboa wrote: »
    So the public sector are approx 150% more qualified than the private sector.
    Interesting.

    Pretty much yes and while we could get away with such a situation during a period of full employment during the celtic tiger era, higher skilled jobs are only slowly coming on stream in the private sector, while workers with various skill profiles compete for the jobs that are there at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    EF wrote: »
    Pretty much yes and while we could get away with such a situation during a period of full employment during the celtic tiger era, higher skilled jobs are only slowly coming on stream in the private sector, while workers with various skill profiles compete for the jobs that are there at the moment.

    With respect people may be reading more into that data than actually exists..

    PS people are not 150% more "qualified", they may have higher qualifications per capita given the smaller more specific workforce (i.e. no retail/restaurant segments which in general don't require 3rd level qualifications). They would in general be equally qualified to their PrS counterparts when comparing equivalent roles, i.e. an accountant/IT/management role will require similar qualifications in both the PrS and PS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭ParkRunner



    So the only reason I could see for the higher average wage in the PS would be too many working at management level and above, or maybe remuneration levels being too high across the board.

    I think the lower paid would definitely skew the figures downwards for the private sector a lot more than the few who are raking it in.

    KeenaTable.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Averages mean very little as a hard piece of data.
    To really understand the data, you need the amount of people the average was taken over and probably a rough idea of how many people were earning certain amounts within the overall number of people.
    Otherwise it's not telling you even half the story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭SpodoKamodo


    EF wrote: »
    I think the lower paid would definitely skew the figures downwards for the private sector a lot more than the few who are raking it in.

    KeenaTable.jpg

    Which shows that the PS is existing in an artificial economic environment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Really, where you get the figure of 35k being the average? the official figures say otherwise, so where do you get your figures from?

    thats the average industrial wage

    In regards to that graph; the lowest group really needs to be brought more into the tax net (be in public or private)

    50% of pop accounting for 2% of tax, totally unsustainable


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    Just be aware the graphs above are for the year 2008, the figures released today were for the year 2009


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    aoboa wrote: »
    So the public sector are approx 150% more qualified than the private sector.
    Interesting.

    of course , you mean you did not know ?. look at the brilliant intelligent service you get from all our public servants , not alone do 60% have third level qualifications but 9 out 10 are members of mensa , we are not paying them what they are worth at all!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    but 9 out 10 are members of mensa

    Do you have a source for this or did you just make it up?


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