Fine want to steal from your pocket

NUIG_FiannaFail

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person. Do you have €1200 spare cash in the current climate? Ok the unemployed or very low paid will get it for free but people on 35k a year can't afford private health care if they have a mortgage and a car loan.

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me. And it wouldn't suprise me if Fine Gael constantly reduced the income level for free health insurance once they get their grubby hands on power. People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

steof1984

Any links ?

danbohan

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person. Do you have €1200 spare cash in the current climate? Ok the unemployed or very low paid will get it for free but people on 35k a year can't afford private health care if they have a mortgage and a car loan.

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me. And it wouldn't suprise me if Fine Gael constantly reduced the income level for free health insurance once they get their grubby hands on power. People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

its so reassuring to know that the socialist party of bertie are not in to profit and big business, the must have had a road to Damascus moment in last few hours

phkk

Cant believe what Im after reading-have you no shame being a member of Fianna FAIL-a party that looks after the big boys and screws the ordinary workers whom you are so worried about...every thing they do stinks of injustice,unfairness,hypocrisy...

Seth Brundle

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person. Do you have €1200 spare cash in the current climate? Ok the unemployed or very low paid will get it for free but people on 35k a year can't afford private health care if they have a mortgage and a car loan.

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me. And it wouldn't suprise me if Fine Gael constantly reduced the income level for free health insurance once they get their grubby hands on power. People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

Pot, kettle, black!

smellslikeshoes

Where are you getting this or is that just what you think is going to happen?

steof1984

It is his opinion, and a skewed one at that. OP is just trying to scare people away from voting for FG.

FF must be starting their negative campaigning early this time.


Actually OP, rather then asking you to discuss FG proposals (as i can only assume as a FF supporter you have not read FG Health proposals) ill ask you something you should be able to answer

What are FF ideas to fix our broken health service ?

dvpower

Links or GTFO.

PeakOutput

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person. Do you have €1200 spare cash in the current climate? Ok the unemployed or very low paid will get it for free but people on 35k a year can't afford private health care if they have a mortgage and a car loan.

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me. And it wouldn't suprise me if Fine Gael constantly reduced the income level for free health insurance once they get their grubby hands on power. People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

ha ha ha funny stuff

srsly tho any links?

population

Now now

Just think of all the incredible things Harney has done for the health service.

First there was the......

Oh

Scofflaw

dvpower wrote: »

Links or GTFO.

Heck, let's upgrade that a bit, since I'm tired of what is increasingly obviously just party-political trolling - links or ban. You have until midnight.

moderately,
Scofflaw

fontanalis

The story of the three billy goats gruff.

CoalBucket

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person.

The actual figure is 1200 per couple earning 35,000 each. That equates to 600 per person. In Holland, each adult pays a premium of around €1,100 per year, and contributes a further 6.5 per cent of their salary, up to a maximum of €2,000. With annual income running at €53,000 per household, the annual cost of health insurance is somewhere between €4,525 and €5,625, or 8.6 to 10.7 per cent of household income.

In Ireland, we spend in the region of €3,800 per person per annum on public health services, or somewhere between 6 per cent and 12 per cent of household income.
In other words, the two countries spend similarly on health but deliver remarkably different service entitlements.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyojmhsncwoj/

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me.

http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2010/03/is_going_dutch_our_best_health.html

How exactly does that sound like the US system. It clearly is a carbon copy of the dutch model. As previously outlined by The Labour Party 9 years ago. It is recognised as the dutch sytem by the IMO and even referred to as the dutch sytem by FF.

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/the-big-f-deal-and-progressive-healthcare-proposals-in-ireland/

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

This is rich coming from someone with FF in their name.

If you are gonna spout pro-ff tripe you might do a bit of research first.

donkey balls

hey op why dont you ask the current minister for health her ideas is she not the one pushing people towards private health care? afaik while she was in NZ for paddys day she had a look at their health system.(read it in the sindo 34k on the trip to NZ)
i mean how long has she been in that portfolio and she still is looking for idea:rolleyes:s,

flutered

donkey balls wrote: »

hey op why dont you ask the current minister for health her ideas is she not the one pushing people towards private health care? afaik while she was in NZ for paddys day she had a look at their health system.(read it in the sindo 34k on the trip to NZ)
i mean how long has she been in that portfolio and she still is looking for idea:rolleyes:s,

and here was i thinking all she wanted was the salery plus the perks, oh the pensions.

zootroid

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person. Do you have €1200 spare cash in the current climate? Ok the unemployed or very low paid will get it for free but people on 35k a year can't afford private health care if they have a mortgage and a car loan.

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me. And it wouldn't suprise me if Fine Gael constantly reduced the income level for free health insurance once they get their grubby hands on power. People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

Whereas Bertie, Cowen, et al are genuinely concerned with the welfare of the citizens of the state. :rolleyes:

I also think you should change the thread title

dlofnep

I read about FG's healthcare proposals a while back, but I was unable to find reflective figures of who will be obliged to take out mandatory health care, and who won't. In fairness to the OP - they are entitled to have their views on the issue, without their character being attacked. It deflects from the topic at hand. If Fine Gael wants to enter Government, then they need to start answering these questions.

My qualm with mandatory healthcare, is that a cut-off point for those deemed below the poverty line isn't always a real reflection on what's really happening.

For example, I need to move to Dublin this September for university, but I cannot avail of a grant. This is based on my parent's income, despite the fact that I am a mature student, who does not receive any funds from them. So even though, I'll be living 100 miles away from home - I'll still be means tested based on the total income of my family. It's these scenarios that demonstrate a real problem with means testing of wealth and income.

I could very well envisage a scenario where someone who cannot afford private health insurance, will be required to do so.

If someone here from Fine Gael is versed on their Faircare proposals, could they answer the following questions for me.

1) On what basis will families be means tested, and could you provide me with very clear figures on who will avail of state-supported healthcare, and who will be required to sign up to private health insurance?

2) If a person is viewed by the Government as being above the cut-off point - What penalty will be incurred on them if they do not take out private healthcare, if any?

Seth Brundle

zootroid wrote: »

I also think you should change the thread title

The title does suggest a lot about the next crop of FFers!

PeakOutput

dlofnep wrote: »

For example, I need to move to Dublin this September for university, but I cannot avail of a grant. This is based on my parent's income, despite the fact that I am a mature student,

completely off topic and i assume you have looked into it yourself but when i was looking into grants i was one year away from being a mature student and was told if i waited it would be based on my income not my parents. i didnt wait though

back on topic

dlofnep

PeakOutput wrote: »

completely off topic and i assume you have looked into it yourself but when i was looking into grants i was one year away from being a mature student and was told if i waited it would be based on my income not my parents. i didnt wait though

back on topic

It's based on my parents income. It's called a dependant-mature student. You need to be living out of your house for a year or so prior to starting college for you to be classed as a non-dependant mature student - which does make much sense, considering most students don't move away until they start college.

In any case Back on topic

CoalBucket

dlofnep wrote: »

I read about FG's healthcare proposals a while back, but I was unable to find reflective figures of who will be obliged to take out mandatory health care, and who won't. In fairness to the OP - they are entitled to have their views on the issue, without their character being attacked. It deflects from the topic at hand. If Fine Gael wants to enter Government, then they need to start answering these questions.

I agree everybody is entitled to their express their views without their character being attacked.
The OP has not had their character attacked but their views challenged.
The OP have expressed not only their views but also statements of fact regarding costs without providing any link to any source.
IMO if a member decides to issue a statement of fact on a political thread they should at least provide a link and it is reasonable for other members to look for a source.

thebman

NUIG_FiannaFail wrote: »

If Fine Gael get into power they are going to force people to take out private health insurance. This could cost up to €1200 a year per person. Do you have €1200 spare cash in the current climate? Ok the unemployed or very low paid will get it for free but people on 35k a year can't afford private health care if they have a mortgage and a car loan.

Fine Gael also need to make it clear how much profit the private health companies will make. Fine Gael are saying this is the Dutch model but it sounds more like the US model to me. And it wouldn't suprise me if Fine Gael constantly reduced the income level for free health insurance once they get their grubby hands on power. People like Richard Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, O'Reilly, Coveney, Creighton etc only care about profits for big business.

You consistently try to steal my time with threads like these

Seth Brundle

CoalBucket wrote: »

The OP have expressed not only their views but also statements of fact regarding costs without providing any link to any source.

Maybe they can't provide references for the same reason that FF won't give us the reasons behind the bank guarantee decision, etc.

SkepticOne

Scofflaw wrote: »

Heck, let's upgrade that a bit, since I'm tired of what is increasingly obviously just party-political trolling - links or ban. You have until midnight.

moderately,
Scofflaw

i think most likely he is referring to this: Speech by Fine Gael Leader Enda Kenny TD to the Adelaide Hospital Society Conference on 14th April 2010

The final phase will introduce a Dutch style Universal Health Insurance system.

In the Dutch system you are required to purchase health insurance unless your employer does it for you as part of a group scheme. From another source:

If you are living in the Netherlands or you are paying income-tax in the Netherlands you are required to purchase a health insurance at a Dutch insurance company. In the past there was a difference between public and private healthcare in the Netherlands. This however has been changed and everybody is now required to purchase basic health insurance. URL="http://www.justlanded.com/english/Netherlands/Netherlands-Guide/Health/Healthcare"]source[/URL

Though, of course, income tax itself, if this scheme were introduced, could be reduced.

I think this is a good idea and would give Fine Geal my vote if I thought they were serious about it.

dlofnep

CoalBucket wrote: »

The OP has not had their character attacked but their views challenged.

Their character was attacked.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65517488&postcount=4

It's not in my interests to defend a member of Fianna Fáil. But I do think this topic warrants a serious discussion, providing that Fine Gael want to run for our next Government.

I'd certainly like to know what Fine Gael has in store before any elections. They need to provide a transparent paper on their proposals.

Evolute

Every single politican should be thrown out of the dail and get new people in simple (well not simple but it should happen)
That and they should get minimum wage because lets face it they dont deserve six figure salaries and expenses to get fat on

Seth Brundle

dlofnep wrote: »

Their character was attacked.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65517488&postcount=4

Asking why someone would want to be a member of a party with a track record like FFs isn't attacking their character IMO.

dlofnep

kbannon wrote: »

Asking why someone would want to be a member of a party with a track record like FFs isn't attacking their character IMO.

Asking someone if they have "no shame" for posing a question, is attacking their character. We'll agree to disagree. I don't want to take the thread totally off-topic.

Now, if anyone can answer any of my questions - I have a few more. If any Fine Gael representatives on here want to discuss their Faircare proposals, I'd like to discuss it.

Seth Brundle

FG's Faircare is probably better off in its own thread IMO.

Anyhow, lets keep this one going as it is - I don't see the OP returning before midnight so I'm getting my popcorn ready

dlofnep

This thread is about Faircare, is it not?

Seth Brundle

In fairness, I think this thread is a bit of a car crash.
I'd start a new thread for a serious discussion.

CoalBucket

dlofnep wrote: »

Their character was attacked.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65517488&postcount=4

Hardly an attack on a persons character asking why they support a particular party.

dlofnep wrote: »

It's not in my interests to defend a member of Fianna Fáil. But I do think this topic warrants a serious discussion, providing that Fine Gael want to run for our next Government.

I agree that a topic warrants serious discussion, not just random bias baseless opinions provided by the OP.

dlofnep wrote: »

I'd certainly like to know what Fine Gael has in store before any elections. They need to provide a transparent paper on their proposals.

I also agree that FG need to provide a transparent paper for any proposal prior to an election.

dlofnep

kbannon wrote: »

In fairness, I think this thread is a bit of a car crash.
I'd start a new thread for a serious discussion.

I agree, it was probably started with intentions of it being doomed to fail. I'll create a new thread

Scofflaw

dlofnep wrote: »

I agree, it was probably started with intentions of it being doomed to fail. I'll create a new thread

Good. OP has failed troll test elsewhere in the meantime in any case. New thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055890736

moderately,
Scofflaw