Depraved or socially responsible ?

zod

Chinas one child policy enforced by imprisoning family members!

Thousands of people in one county of southern China have been sterilized in just days as part of a crackdown on violations of the country’s controversial one-child policy.

A 20-day campaign was begun on 7 April to sterilize 9,559 adults in Puning county, which with a population of 2.24 million is the most populous area of Guangdong Province. On 12 April local officials said they had already achieved about half their goal.

Doctors have been working 20 hour days to complete the massive round of surgeries. Local officials are so determined to reach their target they have been detaining relatives of those who resist the operation, potentially in violation of Chinese law.

Some 1,300 people are being held in cramped conditions around the county and forced to listen to lectures about the one-child policy while their relatives refuse to submit to the surgery.


http://www.weirdasianews.com/2010/04/19/thousands-sterilized-china-population-crackdown/?ref=rss

Have to say I find the whole thing repulsive.

SLUSK

You will find out that this is a policy many greens are advocating.

Boxoffrogs

Greens here in Ireland?

Not very palatable, but with world population growing exponentially, surely controlling birth rates is a practice which will be adopted widely in the future.

Macha

SLUSK wrote: »

You will find out that this is a policy many greens are advocating.

Can you back that up?

Pete M.

Depraved and socially responsible, in China.

Mahatma coat

I Dunno, How mental would it really get if the Chinese started having more than one Child Each??

Surely we could just revert to the tried and tested methods of population control like War

maninasia

Start a war in the Chinese..suicide.
Anyway...it is a difficult question, population rates will drop there anyway due to better economic circumstances soon...they will abandon the 1 child rule.

Mahatma coat

maninasia wrote: »

Start a war in the Chinese..suicide.
Anyway...it is a difficult question, population rates will drop there anyway due to better economic circumstances soon...they will abandon the 1 child rule.

Well if we were clever enough about it we could get the Chinese to turn on themselves ina Civil war, otherwise we pit them against the other population problem India

djpbarry

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Well if we were clever enough about it we could get the Chinese to turn on themselves ina Civil war, otherwise we pit them against the other population problem India

Surely we in 'The West' are the 'problem population'?

Cookie_Monster

China are the only country facing up to the issue of global overpopulation. The rules they have are sensible and I commend them for it. I also 100% agree with what they are doing to those that break them, sterilisation makes more sense then throwing them in jail or other punishments.

The rest of the world, particularly those countries with larger populations need to look at doing something similar rather than simply ignoring it.

Cookie_Monster

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Well if we were clever enough about it we could get the Chinese to turn on themselves ina Civil war, otherwise we pit them against the other population problem India

and the nuclear fallout from that?

zod

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The rest of the world, particularly those countries with larger populations need to look at doing something similar rather than simply ignoring it.

Countries with larger populations should be culled .. why do you pick that artificial classification ?

So by your analysis say the following top 5 should be culled

China 1.3 Billion
India
United States
Indonesia
Brazil - 192 Million

The old Russia(USSR) used to have about 290 million, but luckily broke up and escapes the list..

Europe has 730 Million but obviously not a country .. if we got too united like the States .. maybe we would be in danger of culling though ?

Cookie_Monster

zod wrote: »

Countries with larger populations should be culled .. why do you pick that artificial classification ?

So by your analysis say the following top 5 should be culled

China 1.3 Billion
India
United States
Indonesia
Brazil - 192 Million

The old Russia(USSR) used to have about 290 million, but luckily broke up and escapes the list..

Europe has 730 Million but obviously not a country .. if we got too united like the States .. maybe we would be in danger of culling though ?

what are you talking about, I never mentioned culling!
Laws for population control is what I was taking about

zod

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what are you talking about, I never mentioned culling!
Laws for population control is what I was taking about

You said "need to do something similar" ( to enforced sterilization while imprisoning family members ).


But more importantly you said "particularly those countries with larger populations".

Why countries with larger populations ?

Cookie_Monster

zod wrote: »

You said "need to do something similar" ( to enforced sterilization while imprisoning family members ).

yes, but thats not quite the same as culling is it, stop trying to twist what I said

zod wrote: »

But more importantly you said "particularly those countries with larger populations".

Why countries with larger populations ?

because they are obviously more of an issue than those that have small populations :rolleyes:

India and China alone make up over a third of the world pop.

AngryHippie

zod wrote: »

Why countries with larger populations ?

Mathematics, laws of multiplication, human nature.....
The same reasons culling isn't practical, same reason widespread sterilisation isn't practical, (unless some of the more recognisable branded food outlets and drink providiers got on board)

Its the elephant in the corner, and no society (country, union or federation)has come up with answers to how to provide a stable age demograph, sufficient workforce and employment, food, healthcare and education. What is currently in place is merely all the individual systems trying in an inconsistent, inefficient but politically mandated fashion ( some dictatorships, communes, Religious states and the little neutral one excepted) to bodge together enough results to keep their jobs and their sneaky little arses in gucci.

Its a bit of a generalisation, but the day they come at me with sterilizers will be the day I (or they) die.

zod

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because they are obviously more of an issue than those that have small populations :rolleyes:

India and China alone make up over a third of the world pop.

*Blinks*

China has a population density of less than Germany, the UK, the Netherlands .. in fact it comes in number 78 in the list of countries ranked by population density.

So they in actual fact have less of an issue than other countries.

And the other reason that going by outright population size to cull "do something similar to enforced sterilisation while imprisoning family members" is the country in question could simply break up into smaller entities.

Merch

zod wrote: »

*Blinks*

China has a population density of less than Germany, the UK, the Netherlands .. in fact it comes in number 78 in the list of countries ranked by population density.

So they in actual fact have less of an issue than other countries.

And the other reason that going by outright population size to cull "do something similar to enforced sterilisation while imprisoning family members" is the country in question could simply break up into smaller entities.

It depends on how you look at it, population density doesn't really work for me, a billion plus people are going to have much more impact than 16.5 million people, they still need fuel for heating and cooking and the impact that has on plant/animal habitat and the environment. But at least the Chinese are thinking about it and actually doing something.
It may seem unpalatable, but what happens if there wasn't a one child policy, what happens when the demands of the populace for food and fuel cant be met? starvation? unrest? Also I dont believe inproved economic circumstances necessarily mean lower birth rates, after the Soviet Union disintegrated Russia experienced a fall off in birth rates, whereas Ireland still has high rates through the celtic tiger up until 07 anyway

maninasia

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yes, but thats not quite the same as culling is it, stop trying to twist what I said



because they are obviously more of an issue than those that have small populations :rolleyes:

India and China alone make up over a third of the world pop.

Eh you are a number just like every other Chinese or Indian, I vote for you to be culled first.

djpbarry

maninasia wrote: »

...I vote for you to be culled first.

Less of the personal remarks please.

Capt'n Midnight

educate women about contraception
provide old age pensions so people don't need to have kids as a pension plan
make it expensive to have kids like in the OECD countries, loosing second income, school fees that sort of thing and watch populations fall

some EU countries already have negative population growth, and apart from Africa / India population growth is slowing down , we may peak at 11Bn in the foreseeable future

forced sterilisation is not needed

in the old days in the states you needed a marriage license, here you need a license for a dog, but anyone can have a child - if someone can figure out a way to stop unsuitable parents having children... first problem is who decides if someone is suitable :pac:

Macha

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

educate women about contraception

It isn't just about education women about contraception, it's about giving women control over their fertility.

Capt'n Midnight

taconnol wrote: »

It isn't just about education women about contraception, it's about giving women control over their fertility.

How are you going to do that without educating them ?

There was a TED talk a while back wasn't there with a graph of family size vs. life expectancy or wealth and it change with time , if anyone could post a link it would give a good background.

piby

I always get torn on this issue because as a liberal I always think how can you tell somebody that they can't have more than one child. It's impinging on the very essence of our existence whch is to procreate so I just don't like the idea of playing with that freedom. But the other reality is that there are simply too many people on this planet. It cannot sustain out population or an increase in population past the next century as I see it. We need to reduce our population and change our lifestyles. We can go on all we want about India and China but the West has by far the highest consumption of natural resources. I accept the 'Total' arguement (i.e. that 1 American living a luxurious, gas sussling life may still be more environmentally friendly that a 1,000 Chinese people) but that's overlooking the point. Population control/reduction on its own won't be sufficient (unless we're talking less than a billion worldwide I reckon) so we need to make it part of a much broader strategy for sustainability including MAJOR lifestyle and industry changes.

So I think that it's one of the few things that China has the intellectual high ground on and is taking a leadership role on. It may sound dark but it's a reality that we must face. Of course you then have objections from religious fgroups etc. but we must still forge ahead. Ignoring a problem because it's sensitive is all well and good but it's going to be an issue sooner or later as resources run dry so why not forge ahead now?

Macha

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How are you going to do that without educating them ?

I didn't say that you don't educate them, I said that in addition, you have to give them rights to control their fertility. There's no point an NGO going in and educating women on contraception if the laws of the country don't give them access to them.

Capt'n Midnight

taconnol wrote: »

I didn't say that you don't educate them, I said that in addition, you have to give them rights to control their fertility. There's no point an NGO going in and educating women on contraception if the laws of the country don't give them access to them.

The NGO can educate
The NGO can't get the law changed
The women may be able to get the law changed

Capt'n Midnight

zod wrote: »

Chinas one child policy enforced by imprisoning family members!

One could argue the same for the USA

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=11

* In 2008, over 7.3 million people were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole at yearend — 3.2% of all U.S. adult residents or 1 in every 31 adults.
* About 70 percent of the persons under correctional supervision at yearend 2008 were supervised in the community, either on probation or parole, while 30 percent were incarcerated in the nation’s prisons or jails.
* At yearend 2008 a total of 4,270,917 adult men and women were on probation and 828,169 were on parole or mandatory conditional release following a prison term.
* State and federal prison authorities had jurisdiction over 1,610,446 prisoners at midyear 2008: 1,409,166 in state jurisdiction and 201,280 in federal jurisdiction.
* Local jails held 785,556 persons awaiting trial or serving a sentence at midyear 2008. An additional 72,852 persons under jail supervision were serving their sentence in the community.

Don't forget that most of the prison population is male which further skews the stats.