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Armed Gardai?

  • 20-04-2010 11:43PM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭


    Should we adopt an English policing system? Armed Gardai at every inner street corner?

    There is already an armed response unit, perhaps it should be enlarged to have more units in troublespots in Limerick and Dublin. Or perhaps it would be a bad precedent to establish in this relatively gun free country.

    Thoughts?


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    Usually when this issue comes up the quote "taking the gun out of Irish politics" is mentioned. Unfortunately the gangsters and criminals in our cities have put the gun back into Irish politics, and that is something we can't avoid.

    An armed policy might raise the peoples' respect for the Gardaí. This argument is especially relevant given that one of the original reasons the Gardaí were unarmed was for community respect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    Not a chance in hell, they're already negligent enough


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    If you manage to get Gardaí at every street corner, armed, unarmed or no arms, you're doing well!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    If you're sending gardaí into gangland areas I don't see why they should not be armed. In fact, they should be encouraged to be armed so long as they have the correct training.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I'd welcome it.

    That said, I'd prefer if the scummy drug dealers and thugs weren't on the streets, which is the fault of the courts and PC brigade and the parents who don't look after their kids and teach them the basics of right and wrong.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    In fact, they should be encouraged to be armed so long as they have the correct training.
    Correct training being the crucial wording. You want armed Gardaí who still remember how to be a Garda, and not use the gun to solve the incident. Also, some sort of psych test before they are given a gun.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    I would be all in favour of armed Gardai. The times have changed and these days thugs, gangs etc all routinely carry weapons, how are the Gardai supposed to be effective if you have unarmed Gardai coming face to face with armed criminals. Also I think it would send out a clear message to criminals that there is the chance of them being shot and killed, which may make them reconsider their actions. I know some people will say then the criminals will just arm themselves, but the truth is they already have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭johnnyjb


    I really really really think that would be a bad idea.I have never come across a guard that i would deem responsible enough to mind a dog never mind a loaded gun.Its only a cushy job to most of them.

    They wouldnt pull it on a drug dealer,it would be put against the heads of people stopped in yellow boxes and the likes :cool:. Face it its not a proper police force compared to other countries imho


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    It's one step - and not a central one either - among many needed to reinvent our justice system, crucial to which is the discovery of a vast, untapped reservoir of Nazi gold, so yeah, pipe dream for now, but the principle is sound.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭A_Border_Bandit


    Garda Síochána - Guardians of Peace

    With a name that cool, perhaps they should be equipped with a four foot sword and a longbow, Aragorn style... :D

    Nah, I think they should get more Gardai out on the streets which in itself would be a deterrant rather than using guns.

    Plus a zero tollerance approach to any scumbags carrying such weapons.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,556 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    I have no problem with arming the Gardaì, they have a tough and dangerous job and I think it would just be better for them to have some protection whens sh!t goes down.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    I really really really think that would be a bad idea.I have never come across a guard that i would deem responsible enough to mind a dog never mind a loaded gun.Its only a cushy job to most of them.

    They wouldnt pull it on a drug dealer,it would be put against the heads of people stopped in yellow boxes and the likes :cool:. Face it its not a proper police force compared to other countries imho

    Come on, thats unfair. Not nice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Plus a zero tollerance approach to any scumbags carrying such weapons.

    Ok a scumbag is carrying a weapon

    A Gardai is not

    please illustrate how the Gardai can show "zero tolerance" in such a situation


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 67 ✭✭McNulty32


    It has being proven at this stage that the Gardai are incapable of using firearms be it through poor training or malice, there are ample amount of cases that prove the Gardai are nothing but a gang of gun toting mavericks when arms are involved, god help us all if they ever get their hands on guns


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    There are other forms of arms than gun which should be explored as a first step I think

    Tazer guns would be a good example of an effective non lethal device. Ok so not as effective in all situations, such as gang activity, but give the average guard on the street these and the more senior & specialist teams "real" firearms & appropriate training


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    McNulty32 wrote: »
    It has being proven at this stage that the Gardai are incapable of using firearms be it through poor training or malice, there are ample amount of cases that prove the Gardai are nothing but a gang of gun toting mavericks when arms are involved, god help us all if they ever get their hands on guns

    Has it been proven? Oh, by whom and where some facts please rather than a rant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Has it been proven? Oh, by whom and where some facts please rather than a rant.

    Abbylara
    Abbeyleix.

    But aside from that, when was the last time a gun got pulled on a Garda?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 202 ✭✭Dannyboy1987


    Abbylara
    Abbeyleix.

    But aside from that, when was the last time a gun got pulled on a Garda?

    very rarely because of the they don't go in to some areas where this does happen, Also young guard getting attacked comes to mind in ballymun . Maybe if he was armed this might not of happened "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    Well I got stopped at checkpoints a few times by guards with automatic weapons. Think it was the time there were a lot of drugs finds in North Kildare. I assume that was the ERU? But if they can set up a checkpoint and put in a gun across the front of my car while checking my tax, then I would consider the Gardai as already being armed when they choose to be.

    The problem is not with giving the guards more firepower, it's with prosecuting, convicting, and properly sentencing those who are the scum of society. I heard during the week that a girl who was doing a Masters was arrested and thrown in jail as she was an illegal immigrant. This from the same legal system that gave that psycho (dont think I'm allowed name the guy) in the ongoing "screwdriver" case bail??

    In cases of armed robbery, where the guards come in armed as it is, I wish they would be a bit more strong armed. As they were that time in Lusk. Scum who put a gun in your face and try to steal what you have worked for need to know that their lives are ALSO on the line if they engage in this sort of behaviour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭gerire


    Abbylara
    Abbeyleix.

    But aside from that, when was the last time a gun got pulled on a Garda?

    2007 Garda Paul Sherlock was shot

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shot-garda-lured-into-trap-by-evil-crime-gang-1088808.html

    COURAGEOUS Garda Paul Sherlock was lured into a trap by armed thugs who shot him yesterday because his prompt action prevented them from carrying out an armed robbery.

    As President Mary McAleese led tributes to the brave traffic officer last night, the 34-year-old father of two was in a stable condition in hospital after being hit in the left side and arm.

    A crime gang from Dublin's north inner city is believed to have been responsible for the shooting.

    The attack on the unarmed and uniformed garda prompted calls from some of his rank and file colleagues for a fresh look at arming the force. Deputy general secretary of the Garda Representative Association John Healy said: "My preference would be that uniformed gardai remain unarmed but we can't be sending people out to deal with this type of cowardly, despicable act on a daily basis and give them no protection."

    A major hunt for the gunmen was under way last night as garda forensic experts looked for vital clues to their identity from their abandoned silver Nissan Almera car.

    The Almera had been stolen from Charleville Avenue in Ballybough on May 22 last and was probably kept in storage since then.

    Senior officers appealed to anybody with information about its whereabouts since then to contact them immediately.

    Garda Sherlock, from Portmarnock, Co Dublin, is one of three brothers in the force. He is attached to the regional traffic unit based at Dublin Castle, while his brothers are stationed in Store Street. One of his two children was born earlier this year.

    He was on routine traffic duties on his motorcycle in the north city as part of Operation Artery, which monitors traffic flow through the capital.

    Around 9am a friend of the owner of the Almera spotted the car on North Strand and the gardai were alerted. A description of the car, registration number 02 D 68111, was flashed to all personnel on patrol in the area.

    Garda Sherlock was on North Strand when he picked up the message and almost immediately noticed the Almera in the traffic.

    He followed the Almera at a safe distance as it was being driven towards the city centre and radioed for back up.

    The Almera turned left into Ossory Road and when Garda Sherlock continue to tail it he was spotted by the two men in the car.

    The Almera driver waited until he turned around a bend in the road and then pulled into the side. Garda Sherlock slowed down as he saw the car stopping and began to park behind it. A gunman suddenly jumped out of the front passenger seat and fired one blast from a sawn-off shotgun as the officer was still sitting on the motorcycle.

    He was struck in the left side and arm while pellets also lodged in the motorcycle.

    The gunman ran back to the car which sped away along West Road in the East Wall area.

    It was discovered shortly afterwards at St Barnabas Gardens and gardai think the gunmen might have switched to a white van.

    Gardai said the gunmen were likely to have been high on cocaine and were planning a robbery in the area, probably from a post office at the junction of North Strand and Ossory Road where the gang believed a cash shipment had been delivered earlier.

    They were wearing high visibility builders bibs and one also had what was described as a fisherman's cap.

    Garda Sherlock was rushed to the Mater Hospital but his condition stabilised during the morning and he was visited by his wife and mother.
    It has being proven at this stage that the Gardai are incapable of using firearms be it through poor training or malice, there are ample amount of cases that prove the Gardai are nothing but a gang of gun toting mavericks when arms are involved, god help us all if they ever get their hands on guns
    ORLY? By whom, Anyone I know who has acess to a weapon are level headed and they would tell you that the number of times they draw their weapon is, thankfully, negligible.

    The arming of officers is a debate which routinely draws up its head. I too believe that moving onto the taser is a necisity for officer safety. I dont believe that having all rank and file walking aroung with a gun is required.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    very rarely because of the they don't go in to some areas where this does happen, Also young guard getting attacked comes to mind in ballymun . Maybe if he was armed this might not of happened "
    But then again, he may get his weapon taken from him and shot with it, or it may add a gun to the arms cache of the underworld and you can be sure if that gun was used to kill someone a while later there would be quite an issue made out of it.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭jayteecork


    I remember being in a Madrid when the cop passed.

    He was sporting full stubble, bleached hair, the top of his shirt opened revelling a very hairy chest.

    He was also packing heat.

    Didn't exactly fill me with confidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    jayteecork wrote: »
    I remember being in a Madrid when the cop passed.

    He was sporting full stubble, bleached hair, the top of his shirt opened revelling a very hairy chest.

    He was also packing heat.

    Didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

    why?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    jayteecork wrote: »
    I remember being in a Madrid when the cop passed.

    He was sporting full stubble, bleached hair, the top of his shirt opened revelling a very hairy chest.

    He was also packing heat.

    Didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

    Looking like that and carrying a girly magazine, just as well he wasn't armed eh?
    :pac::pac::pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    gerire wrote: »

    So the last incident was 3 years ago and he revieved minor wounds and even if he was armed would have happened regardless. Terrible, but hardly justifies the hysterics on this thread.

    If anyone can come up with any operational reason that would require the beat Garda to be armed, please share with us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    johnnyjb wrote: »
    I really really really think that would be a bad idea.I have never come across a guard that i would deem responsible enough to mind a dog never mind a loaded gun.Its only a cushy job to most of them.

    They wouldnt pull it on a drug dealer,it would be put against the heads of people stopped in yellow boxes and the likes :cool:. Face it its not a proper police force compared to other countries imho

    What a load of bull. Before you talk crap I think you should go to another country for a while and see how you get on. Gardaí have a much higher tolerance for taking crap from people than most european police forces.
    McNulty32 wrote: »
    It has being proven at this stage that the Gardai are incapable of using firearms be it through poor training or malice, there are ample amount of cases that prove the Gardai are nothing but a gang of gun toting mavericks when arms are involved, god help us all if they ever get their hands on guns

    I see no proof of that at all. Most Gardaí don't even want to be armed.
    Abbylara
    Abbeyleix.

    But aside from that, when was the last time a gun got pulled on a Garda?

    Two incidents in ten years. There have been a lot more times when weapons have been used and everything goes fine. They just don't get reported in the papers. As this seems to be the extent of your research you might not be aware of them.

    I know of two Gardaí who have been shot in the last three years. If you read the paper you will see that gardaí in Donegal had a gun pulled on them last week. And a few months ago an off duty garda wrestled a gun from a man in Wetmanstown who has trying to shoot someone. Guns get pulled on Gardaí a lot more than you would think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    So the last incident was 3 years ago and he revieved minor wounds and even if he was armed would have happened regardless. Terrible, but hardly justifies the hysterics on this thread.

    If anyone can come up with any operational reason that would require the beat Garda to be armed, please share with us.

    hysterics?? oh please, re read the posts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Abbylara
    Abbeyleix.

    But aside from that, when was the last time a gun got pulled on a Garda?

    was that man in abbeylara not firing at the gardai? if so what were they expected to do?

    jerry mccabe is a very high profile incident.

    i'd be all in favour of arming the gardai. i also like the notion of tazers as a non lethal approach


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    So the last incident was 3 years ago and he revieved minor wounds and even if he was armed would have happened regardless. Terrible, but hardly justifies the hysterics on this thread.

    If anyone can come up with any operational reason that would require the beat Garda to be armed, please share with us.

    Many more gardaí are injured by knives and other weapons. Being armed, even with a taser, would allow them to keep their distance from someone armed with these weapons.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    aDeener wrote: »
    was that man in abbeylara not firing at the gardai? if so what were they expected to do?

    jerry mccabe is a very high profile incident.

    i'd be all in favour of arming the gardai. i also like the notion of tazers as a non lethal approach

    They should have shot him in the finger. I don't think the shooting in abbeylara was in question. It was the events leading up to the shooting that were reviewed.


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