Subtitled Films

Paddy Samurai

Mentioned at work I rented a great DVD (Mesrine-L'instinct de mort ) at xtravision the weekend , everyone asked about it, said the story sounded great and that they would like to see it themselves.
As soon as i mentioned subtitles only two said they were going to get it out.Everyone else bailed out.When i'm watching a subtitled film i don't even notice i'm reading it.
Can't understand people missing out on a great film because of subtitles.I have about 20+ subtitled films on DVD,mostly french & japanese.I feel the original language adds a lot to the athmosphere/setting of the film.

By the way L'instinct de mort is not to be missed ,its based on a true story and its top notch!.

http://www.mesrine-movie.co.uk/

johnny_ultimate

Working in a video store has drilled into me how stubborn people have become with regards to subtitles. Just this weekend some fool came in and complained - yes, complained - that the films that had foreign stickers on them weren't in English. They have subtitles, I tried to explain. He just made a few sarky comments, more or less demanding we get English versions, which probably don't exist. It boggles the mind how silly people are when it comes to this, and I'll genuinely call someone up on it next time I hear "If I wanted to read, I'd get a book".

There are going to be out there who can't read subtitles for various reasons, but people who don't because of their stubborness are genuinely missing out on a huge wealth of cinema. I've watched many hundreds of subtitled films; they blend into the film if you're paying enough attention, and I always forget they're even there after five minutes or so. The only time it annoys me is when the subtitles don't match whats on screen. I saw an Italian documentary called Videocracy the other day, and while a lot of it was in Italian, the English narration was subtitled too and it didn't exactly match the words being spoken. That was somewhat distracting. But subtitles are pretty much always better than dubs. Even in animated films, where the dubs aren't as noticable, it just sometimes doesn't fit the action on screen. If I'm watching an anime film with a Japanese setting, it was directed to be that way, not an American voice playing over the action. Subs sort that problem out.

Agree with you on Killer Instinct by the way. Mesrine: Public Enemy Number One isn't quite as impressive, but together they make one of the more entertaining and stylish crime thrillers in a while.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Some of the best films I've seen were subtitled and were recommended to me.

City of God changed a lot of peoples opinions on subtitled films I think.
I also loved Pans Labyrinth, Amores Perres and Y tu Mama Tambiens. Could anyone recommend some more from those selections?

Goodbye Lenin works. As does [REC], though I suppose you have Quarantine if you want to watch an english speaking version of [REC].

indough

Alexandria Nice Savannah wrote: »

Could anyone recommend some more from those selections?

Battle Royale and Infernal Affairs for starters, there are tonnes of great subtitled movies though

mike65

Anyone who moans about subtitles simply isn't worth listening to. They should stick with Hollywood trash.

DazMarz

I prefer to watch a film with the original soundtrack than listen to a bunch of badly-dubbed lines, tbh. Subtitles seem to add a certain je ne c'est quoi to a film too... Maybe they make me feel a bit brainier or something! Haha.

robby^5

mike65 wrote: »

Anyone who moans about subtitles simply isn't worth listening to. They should stick with Hollywood trash.

There are many legitimate reasons to dislike subtitles. Having an opinion either way about them does not make someone more or less cultured, as many people seem to think.

Latchy

Never had a problem with subtitled films . I remember watching a series of great black and white French B movies and (obiously ) unless one spoke French , would be be pointless watching without subtitles which never took away from the enjoyment at all

spurious

Subtitles are a useful filter when trying to avoid some of those with socialisation issues in cinemas.
Pora umierac (A time to die) - Beautiful film.
The range of really excellent subtitled films is huge.

indough

it depends on the movie though, some subtitles arent done very well at all and can be hard to make out

also when dialogue goes very fast in a film some people find it hard to keep up

ive never personally had a problem with it but id imagine as you get a bit older and the old eyesight starts to go it could be a problem as well

another thing to remember is that some people just arent that fanatically into movies and so its no bother to them to watch what might be considered a slightly inferior version rather than having to read, which always distracts from whats happening on screen to some degree

calex71

I have a collection of subtitled movies as long as my arm and even at that Id run out of space on that arm

Agree with comments so far, and movies mentioned. It's just about being open minded I guess, xtra vision cant be blamed when the have a huge 'subtitled' sticker on the boxes

My love of none english moves started when i saw la haine late one night on bbc2 years and years ago. That made me a fan of Vince Cassel, and his movies such as the shockingly brutal Irreversible, don't know anyone who wasn't shocked by that.

Agree re: dubbing, it totally ruins the movie makes it like it's out of sync and hard to focus on.

If some of these folks actually sat down and watched the eye candy that is day watch or similar they might reconsider ignoring these jems.

Also there japanese and more so the koreans truely know how to scare the bejesus out me with their horror movies , that get badly remade for the US.

Are tartan or Optimum still releasing these kind of movies on dvd? I had to go cold turkey on them due to the recession / ridiculous money i was spending on them

Oh forgot to mention one of my favorites ..... Man Bites Dog!!!! excellent movie.


Edit: One thing against sub's though, I will not go to see a subtitled movie in the cinema for me it has to be on dvd at home. I agree in some cases that dialogue can be too fast for the subs. Oh got the dvd's of the milenium trilogy (girl with the dragon tattoo etc) they are to be avoided until they get a proper release here as the sub's are absolutely awful

Schism

Alexandria Nice Savannah wrote: »

Could anyone recommend some more from those selections?

Try Brotherhood of the Wolf

calex71

Schism wrote: »

Try Brotherhood of the Wolf

That's nothing like the movies he mentioned
Still a very good movie though

Any preference for genre Slasher? Any movie mentioned so far here is a win.
Since you mentioned 2 mexican movies I'll suggest Battle in Heaven

Galvasean

Schism wrote: »

Try Brotherhood of the Wolf

First time I watched it was with subtitles. I tried watching it dubbed, but it just felt wrong. Everything felt so forced. Since then I've watched it a few times subtitld and enjoyed it tremendously.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Schism wrote: »

Try Brotherhood of the Wolf

I actually saw this in the cinema but wasn't for me, not really into stories like that. But it did look quite good and may be worth a rewatch (my opinons on films can change depending on my mood when watching)

calex71 wrote: »

Any preference for genre Slasher? Any movie mentioned so far here is a win.
Since you mentioned 2 mexican movies I'll suggest Battle in Heaven

I'm not very good at genre defining tbh, I'm no buff, it would be just easier to say I'm not really into sci-fi or romance or fantasy. Anything else is gereally fine, it's all about the story really.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely check that out, I think they are the only two mexican films that I've seen and I had to buy both after they were that good

L'prof

Alexandria Nice Savannah wrote: »

Some of the best films I've seen were subtitled and were recommended to me.

City of God changed a lot of peoples opinions on subtitled films I think.
I also loved Pans Labyrinth, Amores Perres and Y tu Mama Tambiens. Could anyone recommend some more from those selections?

Not really based on the ones you've mentioned but, El secreto de sus ojos is great!

sink

I don't mind subtitles, in fact I prefer them over English when portraying non English speakers. For instance English speaking Nazis really breaks the immersion for me. 'Das Boot' and 'Der Untergang' are two of the best war films ever made.

Skinfull

robby^5 wrote: »

There are many legitimate reasons to dislike subtitles. Having an opinion either way about them does not make someone more or less cultured, as many people seem to think.

I dont mind subtitles for some movies but for others I find that it takes me away from the total immersion I'm looking for. It can be hit and miss for me.

Paddy Samurai

Schism wrote: »

Try Brotherhood of the Wolf

There is a couple of versions out.If your going to watch it ,its worth going to the trouble of getting the full version.I got my copy from Canada.

Paddy Samurai

sink wrote: »

I don't mind subtitles, in fact I prefer them over English when portraying non English speakers. For instance English speaking Nazis really breaks the immersion for me. 'Das Boot' and 'Der Untergang' are two of the best war films ever made.

Come and see (Idi i smotri ) and Black Book (aka: Zwartboek) are also well worth a look .

Schism

calex71 wrote: »

That's nothing like the movies he mentioned
Still a very good movie though

Yeah probably not, I watched it years ago and remembered liking it :P Thought there was some fantasty elements involved ala Pan's Labirynth.

pixelburp

I have no problems with subtitles, and when they're for French movies, I take a particular pleasure in attempting to spot mistranslated sentences (ie, the actor says one thing in French, and the subtitle is just a little bit different). I'd be like Galvasean in that after watching the "proper" version, dubbing just seem so wrong

It's sad that people are either too ignorant, stubborn or just plain lazy to bother experiencing some quality movies because - god forbid - they might have to read a little. I wouldn't even classify it as reading because a good subtitle should just subconsciously filter into your mind without trying (maybe this is why sometimes the translation isn't word-for-word exact).

Beruthiel

There is no point watching a film if you are not hearing the actors voice and the film as it is meant to sound.
Dubbing a film is sacrilege.

Slasher, if you like Gael Garcia Bernal, have you seen the Motorcycle Diaries?

L'prof

Beruthiel wrote: »

There is no point watching a film if you are not hearing the actors voice and the film as it is meant to sound.
Dubbing a film is sacrilege.

Haha, just reminded me of when I got my Dad and brother to watch Låt den rätte komma in. I came home and they were about 20-30 minutes into it so, I sat down. Next thing I knew it was bloody dubbed! I had it on Bluray and there were different audio and subtitle tracks with it. No idea why the dubbed version started up. As soon as I fixed it, they lost interest and turned it off because they didn't want to read the subtitles! I was a bit annoyed with them but, I'm not always in the mood for subtitles either!

jaykhunter

Ignorant people that instantly dismiss subtitled films really angers me, but i've learnt to just try and put it out of my head. I don't agree in principle with American remakes of a foreign film, but at least it gets some people to enjoy the story and raises awareness of the original film; so it does do good. I try my best not to begrudge those to won't watch subtitled films (as a few of my friends are of they persuasion)

That said I enjoyed the American version of the Ring more so than Ringu 1,2,3 and 0. And there have been a few foreign films I hadn't seen before hearing of the remake, so I went and saw the original (good times!)

I'm not always in the mood for subtitles (ie I won't watch 5 subtitled movies in succession) but to denounce them completely....Grrrr!!

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Beruthiel wrote: »

There is no point watching a film if you are not hearing the actors voice and the film as it is meant to sound.
Dubbing a film is sacrilege.

Slasher, if you like Gael Garcia Bernal, have you seen the Motorcycle Diaries?

Absolutely right, sure part of the acting is in the tone of voice. If thats lost so is a lot of the performance.

Saw the Motorcycle diaries, very good.
On that note has anyone seen Che with Benecio del Toro? I think it worked better for educational purposes rather than entertainment

Corkfeen

Love subtitled movies.... But this year with exams and all I really don't have the energy to watch anything foreign.

calex71

On this subject, a pet hate of mine is people who think subtitled movies = being cultured :mad: If you where that bloody cultured you wouldn't need the subtitles now would you

jaykhunter

calex71 wrote: »

On this subject, a pet hate of mine is people who think subtitled movies = being cultured :mad: If you where that bloody cultured you wouldn't need the subtitles now would you

ha ha ha ha!!:pac::pac:

HalloweenJack

I love subtitled films.

Tbh, it means that I pay more attention to what is going on plot-wise as opposed to merely gawking at the screen and absent-mindedly listening to every few words.

I've seen a few dubbed films before and it just seems so bad, though most of them were martial arts ones done with really bad American accents, like Fist of Fury.

I think I wouldn't have enjoyed films like Downfall or Rashomon as much if they'd had one of those fake American accents. The native language adds to the authenticity of the film, imo.

ultain

Schism wrote: »

Try Brotherhood of the Wolf

That is a great flick. 'Das boot' is another goody

Diddler82

City of God already mentioned...not too sure though about Casshern. Absolutely quality film ... only behind the Matrix in its genre IMO

JohnMearsheimer

I don't mind watching subtitled movies. I spent a year living with Erasmus students from Spain, Germany and France that were learning English so I got the opportunity to watch movies in their languages that I may otherwise never have seen. Das Boot from Germany is one of the finest movies I have ever seen.

Whenever we did watch movies in English together we would always watch them with the English subtitles on. It always kinda annoyed me that I couldn't stop myself reading the subtitles even though I knew perfectly well what was being said

L'prof

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Whenever we did watch movies in English together we would always watch them with the English subtitles on. It always kinda annoyed me that I couln't stop myself reading the subtitles even though I knew perfectly well what was being said

That would drive me absolutely insane!!!

JohnMearsheimer

Ha ya, it drove me mad sometimes! I would always start out watching a movie trying my best to ignore them but when its right in your face you cannot help but read them.

jpm4

jasonorr wrote: »

Haha, just reminded me of when I got my Dad and brother to watch Låt den rätte komma in. I came home and they were about 20-30 minutes into it so, I sat down. Next thing I knew it was bloody dubbed! I had it on Bluray and there were different audio and subtitle tracks with it. No idea why the dubbed version started up. As soon as I fixed it, they lost interest and turned it off because they didn't want to read the subtitles! I was a bit annoyed with them but, I'm not always in the mood for subtitles either!

In that film I believe the entire part of Eli was dubbed in the original Swedish so her character would appear older. I would never have known (even though of course I don't speak Swedish). But the point is I think it is possible to do a good, convincing dub in this day and age but I think there is no incentive to do it when a crappy one will do.

I am perfectly happy with subtitles but they can distract from some of the subtlies on screen, plus also there is no garuantee the translation is any better than a dub. So when it is possible to do a good dub - say in animation - am happy to go with it.

L'prof

jpm4 wrote: »

In that film I believe the entire part of Eli was dubbed in the original Swedish so her character would appear older. I would never have known (even though of course I don't speak Swedish). But the point is I think it is possible to do a good, convincing dub in this day and age but I think there is no incentive to do it when a crappy one will do.

I've heard that, but its completely different when you're dubbing in a different language, it just doesn't work!

Jagera

The Lives of Others

And you can't go far without Seven Samurai, and many others by Akira Kurosawa (Ran, Yojimbo, Rashomon are the ones I've also seen)

actuallylike

Never had a problem with subtitles, I would never consider reading a 'grind'. Sometimes they are hard to follow though, like City of Life and Death. Japanese and Chinese been spoken, sometimes difficult to know who's who, sure they don't look the same *joke* (on a side note, one of the best films I've seen in many a year, feels hard walking back out into the real world afterwards).

Un Prophete, as amazing as it was, took me around about an hour in before I realised there were 3 different languages been spoken. Some people I know who saw it didn't even cop this!

And regarding subtitles vs dubbed, it reminds me of a story from when I was in Argentina. My hostel had a tv which showed a lot of English movies either subtitled in Spanish or dubbed. I would only watch the subtitiled ones so I turned it on to see that 28 Days Later had just started so I sat there watching C Murphy wandering the streets in silence, waiting for him to say something so I'd know. It's amazing how long it goes before any words are spoken and then finally, he looks around, opens his mouth and then...
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6573/28dayslaterv.jpg
...I turned it off.

jaykhunter

^^^ that's hilarious! The only bad instances i've had with subtitles is either when the subtitles are out of sync with the film, or when I watched Soi Cheang's Accident in the cinema a few months ago; the subtitles were so small and at the very bottom of the picture, I (and many others) were forced to sit up really straight and move your head to actually read the subtitles! That and you could tell that the subtle nuances in it's native language were probably lost with the translation.

Paddy Samurai

bw wrote: »

The Lives of Others

And you can't go far without Seven Samurai, and many others by Akira Kurosawa (Ran, Yojimbo, Rashomon are the ones I've also seen)

Yeah........ love those films, seven samurai is one of my favourites.

Another that i seen a while back was Battle for algiers,don't have a copy myself but hope to get one when i can afford it.


By coincidence ,both of these films are black and white,another point of dispute with mates.

LOL they won't watch black and white films.....so two reasons that they are missing out on some great films.

Hank_Jones

I don't mind watching subtiltled films, but the thing is that I generally watch a lot of my films very late at night and don't want to have to concentrate the whole of the time on what I'm watching.

I truly love French film though and think it is the best country in the world for producing films and subtitles obviously come with them.

blackiebest

'The beat that my heart skipped" De battre mon coeur s'est arrêté, by Jacques Audiart, same guy as Une Prophet, is a brilliant watch, IMO. Really have enjoyed some subtitled movies recently, 4 months 3 weeks 2 days, another fantastic movie (Romanian).

Just my 0.02c

ultain

blackiebest wrote: »

'The beat that my heart skipped" De battre mon coeur s'est arrêté, by Jacques Audiart.

Just my 0.02c

very good film..I thought the relationship he had with the Japanese piano teacher was very good. Music, the universal language an all that.

Hearvee

I spent a few weeks working in Switzerland a couple of years ago, where they show films in their original language with German AND French subtitles. Worst ones were:
The Last Samuraii : at times there were German AND French AND Japanese subtitles onscreen at the same time.
Lost in La Mancha : when some of the cast spoke French there were only German subtitles. When they spoke English there was French and German. When they spoke Spanish there was only French and German (ie no English).

Generally though, I'd much prefer subtitled versions to dubbed, it just feels like the sound is out of sync if a film is dubbed in a different language. Plus sometimes the voices used to dub films are totally wrong for the parts.

Jagera

another one I liked a while back - In This World

LittleBook

We watched Le diner de cons last night. First time for my Dad, 50th time for me and I was chuffed at how well the subtitles reflected the comedy of the film, not just literally what they were saying. They didn't just translate the language, they translated the humour too.

Check out Nochnoy dozor for how subtitles CAN be done.

LittleBook

One more thing, as much as we love French cinema in it's original language, I have to say they dub EVERYTHING ... TV, cinema. But the upside of that is that dubbing is seen as an art and a career in it's own right there ... I think they even have awards for it.

The same French actor dubs the same "foreign" actor (more or less) every time. So if you see Tom Hanks in several films, he always sounds the same in French. Conversely, it's problematic if the same actors are used again and again for different roles ... imagine watching a film about Richard III where he's dubbed by the same actor who plays Columbo!

ztoical

There are cinemas in several countries were they don't dub the film but have someone reading the script out live while the film is playing. I know they do it in some cinemas in Thailand with two or more actors sitting in a booth in the pack pretty much acting out the film in Thai while it's playing...it's considered a dieing art forum that some are trying to save. My dad saw a german film in Kevi several years ago and someone stood at the front of the screen with a mic translating as the film went along into Ukrainian [should point out my dad didn't speak german or Ukrainian so it was a pretty interesting cinema trip for him lol]

I honestly don't notice if a film is subititled or not unless it's a very bad job like the black and white film I saw several years ago where the white text was unreadable in a lot of sections due to the very white background...like seriously did you not look at it after you added the text to check spelling and what not?

Posy

I remember seeing Jean de Florette in school and thinking 'eeew, French' and 'ugh, subtitles' but I ended up really enjoying it, thus realising that subtitles do not affect the enjoyment of a film. My favourite foreign film is 'La vita è bella' and I think Italian is such a beautiful language that to watch it dubbed would be criminal.
Ztoical, I agree- bad subtitles are so annoying- how did somebody not check that they were legible before releasing a film?!

Someone in my family is hard of hearing so I'm now used to subtitles at this stage as I watch them on soaps, films, Family Guy etc etc.. When you always have them switched on you stop 'reading' them and more subconsciously 'ingest' them, if that makes any sense.