The A/R/T Marathon Training Bible

RacoonQueen

I mentioned this to a couple of people after the race on Sunday and all agreed it would be a good thread. We have a few posters who've run some cracking marathons lately and PB'd, so, I was hoping to just get a thread started where the likes of Krusty, Misty Floyd, Abhainn etc could sum up what they did in training, training tips etc in one post and we can keep everything together in one thread. I know most of us would happily trawl through all your training logs to get all the info but having it all in one thread will be good and it can be added to and dipped into as the rest of use the training methods of A/R/T's greatest to break our own records and all that jazz.

aero2k

Hi RQ,

Yes, this will become a very useful thread. Rather than go into the specifics of my training which I've mentioned elswhere on this forum, I'll make some general points which might be helpful in designing your own training program.

You need a certain amount of self-awareness. Are you a morning person or night owl? Do you tend to jump into things with 150% enthusiasm only to give up disheartened when you hit the first major obstacle? Do you like a very rigid routine, or are you more flexible? If you're already a runner, do you tend naturally towards speed or endurance? What other interests / demands on your time do you need to take into account, and how will you manage the balance between work, rest, personal life and other interests? If you have a very demanding life can you set up a support system to ensure you have time to train? And last but not least, why are you doing it, and what are your goals? It's worthwhile considering all of this before lashing out on the latest trainers, an entry fee to some marathon in an exotic location, and diving into a P&D program.

Set some goals - races are ideal, but for starters it might be just "run 4 days per week".

Decide how much time you need in the week, and block off that time.

Keep some sort of log. I don't publish mine, mainly because it's scribbled in pencil and barely intelligible to me. Thanks to the miracles of technology, my Garmin has recorded all my runs, so I might distill it down and try to explain why I do what I do, and what works for me.

Here are a few remarks aimed at more addicted experienced runners:

Be patient. Be prepared for the fact that while you'll get big improvements at the beginning, further gains will be more incremental. If you do persist, however, consistent training over years rather than months will be reflected in your results.

Be determined, but not stupidly rigid - if you're worn out or injured, juggle your training accordingly. Remember rest periods are not essential just because you're tired from training; the improvments you are seeking in speed and strength take place inside your body while you are at rest, so you need to be as fastidious about this as you are at knocking out 6 min miles in training.

Consider psychological factors. One of my interests is studying peak performance in all sorts of areas. Top performers have a lot of common factors in their thought processes. The way we think influences our behaviour, which in turn determines our results in all areas of life. It's worth spending some time doing your own research in this area. Suffice it to say that just as your body can be trained to run faster over a period of months and years, so your mind can be trained to make you behave in a way that improves outcomes.

For your training plan, keep it simple. I would say 3 hard sessions max per week (I restrict it to two) and definitely no hard sessions on successive days (the ultra runners can disagree here, though I think even they take it easy on one of the days.) Make sure it's specific to your target event. Probably one fast day and one relatively long slower day. Lots of easy enjoyable miles, and a variety of routes. Throw in regular races to give you a goal and get a bit of excitement going, as well as to measure your progress. Whether it's going well or badly, review it regularly so you get to understand what works and what doesn't.

A certain amount of bloddy-mindedness or even stubbornness is needed to succeed, however it's good to keep an open mind. Remember, if you're not happy with your results to date, then you will have to change something if the outcome is going to be different.

Husavik

aero2k wrote: »

Hi RQ,


Be patient. Be prepared for the fact that while you'll get big improvements at the beginning, further gains will be more incremental. If you do persist, however, consistent training over years rather than months will be reflected in your results.

Be determined, but not stupidly rigid - if you're worn out or injured, juggle your training accordingly. Remember rest periods are not essential just because you're tired from training; the improvments you are seeking in speed and strength take place inside your body while you are at rest, so you need to be as fastidious about this as you are at knocking out 6 min miles in training.

Consider psychological factors. One of my interests is studying peak performance in all sorts of areas. Top performers have a lot of common factors in their thought processes. The way we think influences our behaviour, which in turn determines our results in all areas of life. It's worth spending some time doing your own research in this area. Suffice it to say that just as your body can be trained to run faster over a period of months and years, so your mind can be trained to make you behave in a way that improves outcomes.

For your training plan, keep it simple. I would say 3 hard sessions max per week (I restrict it to two) and definitely no hard sessions on successive days (the ultra runners can disagree here, though I think even they take it easy on one of the days.) Make sure it's specific to your target event. Probably one fast day and one relatively long slower day. Lots of easy enjoyable miles, and a variety of routes. Throw in regular races to give you a goal and get a bit of excitement going, as well as to measure your progress. Whether it's going well or badly, review it regularly so you get to understand what works and what doesn't.

A certain amount of bloddy-mindedness or even stubbornness is needed to succeed, however it's good to keep an open mind. Remember, if you're not happy with your results to date, then you will have to change something if the outcome is going to be different.

All very good advice, especially the bit about rest.

I am an average runner trying to break 3.15 for my second marathon in October. I am not making any progress in intervals, tempos or long runs times lately and I put this down to overtraining. It is very difficult to tell yourself to drop scheduled run days from time to time so as to get fitter.

misty floyd

RacoonQueen wrote: »

...... could sum up what they did in training, training tips etc in one post and we can keep everything together in one thread. ......

Thats a great idea RQ. I'd love to see what worked for Krusty, Trunner, Abhainn etc and others might like to know what worked for the likes of me (3hr marathoner)* or Oisin etc. So I'll post from a person that moved from a 3:25 marathon to a 3hr marathon. 'Bible' is perhaps not the right way to descirbe the idea of the thread but I get what you mean.....a summary of recent successful training.

*Feels good posting that

Oisin11178

misty floyd wrote: »

Thats a great idea RQ. I'd love to see what worked for Krusty, Trunner, Abhainn etc and others might like to know what worked for the likes of me (3hr marathoner)* or Oisin etc. So I'll post from a person that moved from a 3:25 marathon to a 3hr marathon. 'Bible' is perhaps not the right way to descirbe the idea of the thread but I get what you mean.....a summary of recent successful training.

*Feels good posting that

Yeah i could not agree more misty. If you read all the logs of people who achived their goals recently i think you will find alot of simularities and some differences. I for example was told by alot of people not to exceed 10-12 miles at pace but went to 15 lower than pmp a few times. Also have enough easy miles in your program.

misty floyd

3:25 to 3:00hr marathon

What worked out for me. The point of this is to help someone. Its not bible, its not out of a book (that I read anyway) but I had sucess by making these changes. I hope it helps someone.

• Read Tergats posts
• Increasing weekly mileage (~43 to ~55mpw). My max week was 68 and I hit lots of 60m weeks.
• Two big workouts per week:
  1) LSR with PMP miles on a Saturday.
  
  2) Tergat Long interval session with easy miles e.g. 2m warm up/4x2m @ HMP/2min jog in between/5x100m strides at 5km pace with 100m jog in between/2mile cool down. Others here from Tergats previous post on 'Want to increase speed for DCM'
• I hit lots of 20 milers. I've attached my training again.
• I reduced racing and track work. I only did one 5m and one 10m race in 18 weeks. I found racing messes up training for the following week and it also made me reduce mileage during the week of the race.
• Easy effort miles in between the two big workouts I did. For me ~8:00min/miles but if 7:45 felt easy then thats what it was.
• Experience. I'm still a novice but having added another few months of consistant running under the belt I know how I feel. I know when to run easy or when to put a hard workout off until the next day. On the point about hard sessions on consecutive days: That doesn't work for me....an example of getting to know how my body reacts/feels.....learn what works for you.
• Loosing weight. This just happened due to the long weekly mileage, all of those slow miles too.....a great benefit over 26.2 miles. Knocking the binge drinking on the head. Everything in moderation.
• Consistancy
• Having a log on boards and find other people that are near you or have similar methods or people that seem to enjoy it. Also getting advice from same and from mates in the club.
• Running with someone slower on the odd easy session (I'm such a user) for something different and to enjoy running. Its nice to run and not give a damn how fast you are going. Enjoy it.
• The right gear for running through the Winter
• Learn from your mistakes.

I posted this in my log:

If I had to pick one thing (even though it was a combination of all) I'd pick the easy running in between big workouts. I only had to do two hard workouts a week so I'd pysche myself up for them no bother. Because they were hard the rest of the sessions felt so easy in comparisson and they were like a reward. They also added up the weekly mileage so reaching a Sunday with 60miles in the bag was good for the confidence, especially when you're feeling ok. They were also good for keeping injuries at bay and I had a lot more (more than for DCM) energy/motivation in work replacing quicker sessions with easy ones. Having said all of that I wouldn't have run many easy miles if I wasn't running the big workouts and without the big workouts, I don't think I would have addressed the endurance issues I had.

There are many ways to skin a cat but this is what worked for me.

misty floyd

misty floyd wrote: »

'Bible' is perhaps not the right way to descirbe the idea of the thread but I get what you mean....

I wrote that because of a comment that was made and then deleted.

aero2k

I mentioned in my post above I could be more specific about the exact training I did & continue to do, but it would be a close copy of Misty's post above.

For the poster who subsequently removed their post, the OP wasn't asking us for conventional research, peer reviewed studies etc, but what worked for us. I'd love to try out 10 different training methods, keep a careful log of each and then stick with the best one, but that would take me 5 years by which time I'd be in my 50's and maybe ageing would distort the "scientific" results. I'm not laying out my posts as hard facts, just my own opinions and experience, and I welcome any other viewpoints, no matter how opposed.
My comments on hard sessions on consecutive days seemed to be the most controversial. I've no doubt that world class athletes can do tough sessions day after day, and maybe even multiple hard sessions on the same day, but they have great natural recovery, top-class back-up systems, the best medical attention, and so on. Even so, many of them spend a lot of time injured.
Another interest of mine is the concept of risk, or more specifically risk vs. potential reward. At my age, with the various demands I want to balance in my life, I err on the side of caution, and I suspect many others will also.
Oh, if you want something that's not just a matter of my opinion, then try this:

aero2k DCM '08 3:22:19
aero2k DCM '09 2:58:55

MaroonTam

Hi aero2K,

If you don't mind, could I ask, how much your training differed between DCM08 and DCM09?

I ask, because to me the improvement over the year is impressive!
I am hoping my first marathon will be sub 3:30 and I feel I am training hard to reach this goal. But for subsequent marathons, is "miles in the legs & experience" enough to produce this kind of improvement, or radically improved training techniques?

Thanks

donothoponpop

aero2k wrote: »

For the poster who subsequently removed their post, the OP wasn't asking us for conventional research, peer reviewed studies etc, but what worked for us.

Which I misunderstood, so I removed my post. I wasn't trying to negate anything you are saying- given your times, what you are doing works.

aero2k

MaroonTam,

Ask as much as you like, the more questions and answers the better on a thread like this.
Just a small bit of background, I'm 45, I cycled competitively in my teens and in my mid 30's, and ran one other marathon, DCM '83.
I've been a casual runner, 3-4 times per week, 10-30 miles total, since about '05 or '06.
In '08 I decided to run DCM. I followed the First program for 18 weeks I think. This has 3 days running and 2 or 3 days cross training. I cycled on the non-running days, but I took it a bit easy - I think the cross training was meant to be hard according to the program. I ran 35-40 miles per week I think - I didn't have a good log then.
For '09 I increased the running to 7 days per week from mid June, and gradually up to a peak of 65 miles, though most weeks were about 55. I did one interval session and one long run (or a long run with some marathon paced miles) and the other days were whatever distance and pace I felt like on the day - typically MP +60-75 sec per mile.
I also had a Garmin which I found invaluable, both in training and in racing.
I think it is important to point out that the 23 min improvement is a bit deceptive - I decided to go for sub-3 on the day in '08 when realistically 3:10, or maybe 3:08 would have been a better target. I suppose I can only claim a "real" 10 min improvement, if you understand what I mean. I've just analysed the splits and despite walking a bit after 16 miles, my average pace up to 30k was consistent. It all fell apart after that. With the help of boards.ie and in particular tergat's posts, I analysed what went wrong and concluded that my training hadn't been specific enough. I designed a program as per Misty's post above, and it all came right on the day. Here's the splits from the two races, expressed in average pace /km up to that point:

10k 1/2 30k full
'08 4:26 4:23 4:26 4:48
'09 4:15 4:15 4:14 4:15

With regard to miles in the legs and experience, both will help get you to the point where more targeted training will be beneficial. It doesn't have to be radical - I was already doing some long and some fast miles for '08, but designing my hard sessions to reflect the demands of my target race definitely made a big difference for me. I had a race plan too, which I was able to stick to.

I hope this information is helpful, best of luck in reaching your goal.

Woddle

Great idea RQ, reading Aeros and mistys really hits home to me in paticular the psychological factors. I also often fall at the first hurdle, after being in great form around xmas I've used more than one excuse to take the easy life. So what I've taken is I need a practical plan of action that will actually suit me. Thanks

aero2k

Woddle, your posts on here were a big factor in my "getting back on the horse" after DCM '08.
Don't overthink it, just set a goal of x times per week, for maybe 4 or 5 weeks, then maybe start making it a bit more structured.
Someone said to me in the pub one night "where do you get the motivation to go out every day?" I replied "It's the other way around. I go out every day, and when I see the improvements I get motivated."

T runner

Id agree with a lot of the sentiment here. You do need to get out and do the miles. Thats not easy

I trained for last years DCM with twice weekly sessions like

long intervals 6-9 by 2k
and 40 - 60 hard pace (+wu,wd)
easy long run and easy between.

Autumn marathon and was able to train with the club.



I couldnt run due to illness. A mistake I made was not to do an alternate race (any race) to reward my traing. No reward after several weeks training completely demoralised me.

After a few months of 20-40k weeks I entered the Paris marathon to try and get the show on the road. Didnt work I couldnt get out the door. I entered the 1000 mile challenge to try and motivate me out the door. I can be competitve so that worked.

I had 14 weeks to the race and I needed to grealy up my mileage. An aerobic approach made more sense this time. I thought the two heavy sessions and the long run didnt quite suit me the last time.

With trying to get the miles in for the challenge I became good at just that.
Plenty of doubles etc but not ideal textbook marathon training.

The miles were quite easy so as to avoid fatigue (and get as many in as possible)

I did do strides after every 3 runs which was important in keeping my running form good for all the aerobic runs.

I used BHAA CC races early for speed/strenght and eventually started adding faster paced longer runs (within 1 min of race pace). None of my longer runs were finished at pace. I didnt have many bites of the cherry and this was a failing.

So before Paris I had:

PLUS:
strong legs/good economy due to high average mileage.
Some race pace-ish rythm due to the fast long/medium runs.

NEGATIVE:

Lack of race specific endurance developed at race pace. ie No long runs finished at race pace.

No long reps to develop average speed

No core training.

No stretching.

My race was predictable. I kept a good rythm and pace for 21-2 miles. My legs (and mind) had not being trained to run fast when very tired (by finishing some long runs at race pace).
Therfore I faded for the last 4 miles. Not disastrously - I didnt hit the wall or run out of energy- but by about 20-30s per mile which is what youd expect with the training.

For Berlin my key sessions might be as follows: (other days all easy)

WK1 Long run eg 21 miles within 1 min of race pace.
Medium Long run eg 16 miles within 1 min of race pace.
7-8 by 2k

WK2 Long run 10miles easy 10 miles Predicted Marathon Pace.*
Medium Long run within 1 min of race pace.
30 min easy 45 min Half marathon pace 30 min easy

Hopefully 2-3 strenght sessions per week inc yoga.
Plenty of stretching and strides.

From my two marathon training cycles I feel this would suit me best.
Everyone is different though. Leg turnover is easy for me, strenght is not.


PMP. One for a different thread but thought Id mention it. It relates to PMPs and GPS's.

My MP from my GPS's was faster than MP for a 2.45 marathon.
It was more like 2.42.5 pace. GPS's record long in marathons. Paris was 26.7

This means that someone going for a 2.45 marathon would need to train at 2.42.5 PMP on their GPS. Or does it?

Krusty_Clown

T runner wrote: »

This means that someone going for a 2.45 marathon would need to train at 2.42.5 PMP on their GPS. Or does it?

Yes, it does. It's down to a poor racing line (crowds, water stops etc.) and GPS inaccuracy (which is typically out by about 0.5%). In Berlin last year, I made a spur of the moment decision to try and get in under three hours, so I set the watch to show average pace, and stuck to a pace around 6:51 (6:53 would be sub-3 pace). I finished my marathon-distance nicely under the three hour mark. But I was still a couple of hundred metres away from the finish line.

I reckon one of the big mistakes of hitting a marathon target is to pick a milestone and train to that target. Look at the number of people on this forum alone who finished a marathon last year between 3:00:00 and 3:00:59. Quite a few of us (and Misty just joined the ranks!). If you want to go sub 3:15, then train for a 3:10 race. If you want to go sub-3, then aim for 2:55. Someone should tell Gebrselassie to train for 1:55 ).

On your average long run, you're not going to have to fumble at the water-stations. You're not going to be faced with a cattle crush as you leave your front door. You won't be faced with the challenge of randomly positioned walkers, who appear out of the blue (well, ok, you might face this one). When you're on your training run, you probably stop your watch to go for a pee. This is why, if you want to break four hours, you need to train for 3:55. One the day, you might not break 3:55, but you'll be a damn site closer to 3:55 then you will be to 4 fours.

Krusty_Clown

Training programs: There is no killer training program (not even Pfitzinger and Douglas!), there is only the program that is right for you. The programs that tend to work for the vast majority of people contains the same essential elements, so for the largest section of people, a more general program will work (like those prescribed in the books, or those prescribed by knowledgeable posters). That doesn't make them the ideal program, just a program that gets you working in the right direction.

Why does a program work for me? I'm relatively new to running, and don't have a running background, so knowing what to do and when to do it doesn't come naturally to me. That's why a program works for me. It's tells me when to go hard, when to go easy. It increases my mileage gradually so I don't over-extend myself, and forces me to rest, even when I feel I don't need it. I don't treat a program as black and white, more of a template or a guiding hand.

Training program mileage: It's easier to add miles on to a training program, than it is to take them away. I think you're better off starting a 55mpw program and tagging on extra mileage when you feel comfortable doing it (like extra miles on a long run, or an extra recovery run), than you are trying to do a 70mpw program, and not being able to cope with the mileage. We're all burdened with busy stressful lives, and trying to make mileage targets can be hard. Not hitting your targets can be demoralizing and can create doubt. So before you commit to a program, make sure you can run the mileage. Otherwise, step down, and build up.

Commitment: Commit 100%. Don't ever let weather be a reason to skip a training session (with obvious health and safety considerations in mind). The first day you quit, you're creating options for the future. If you get wet, you will dry. If you get cold, you will warm-up. Embrace the wind and the rain. Keep thinking about the 4,000 people in the same race who decided to hit the treadmill or the sofa instead. They're the people who will be behind you on race day. For this same reason, never quit out of a race, if it's not going your way. Walk to he finish line if you have to. It will make you train even harder the next time.

Choices: When you come to a split in the road, and you don't know which way to go, take the one that points uphill. The pain is short term, the benefits are long term, and the views are better.

<Krusty's motivational posters are available from all major retail stores. Order now, to guarantee your copy.>

aero2k

Hopefully easier to get the main points in this format:



'08

• 2-3 years casual running background
• 18 week FIRST program
• 3 days running per week
• 30 miles per week
• 2 runs of 20 miles, rest 16 or less
• No PMP runs
• Unrealistic sub 3 target - 5, 10 and 1/2 M times of 32:11, 66:28 and 1:28:48 gave a best McMillan Marathon time of 3:06:10
• Desperately wanted to run sub 3
• Wore DS Racer shoes
• No foot pain, blisters, sore lower leg or joints
• temperature approx 5 deg C, drank approx 600ml energy drink
• Fairly consistent pace up to 19 miles(despite walking) and fell apart thereafter
• Lots of short walk breaks
• Not excessively fatigued but upper leg muscles refused to work
• Loads of pain
• Extreme difficulty walking immediately after the race and for several days afterwards

'09

• Training background as per '08 plus 3 mths casual running, 3 months more structured, then approx 18 weeks of tergat style program (one day intervals, one day long with PMP miles, 5 days easy)
• 6 days increasing to 7 days per week
• 55 miles per week, with a few 60 milers
• 7 runs 20 miles or over
• 5 PMP runs
• realistic target - 5, 10 and 1/2 M times of 31:30, 64:50 and 1:25:00 gave a best McMillan Marathon time of 2:59:16
• Had resolved to do everything I could to run sub 3, but to accept whatever time I got
• Wore DS Trainer shoes
• temperature approx 15 deg C, drank approx 1600ml (energy drink, water and 5 gels)
• consistent pace for the whole race
• Ran every step
• Probably more fatigue over the last 5 miles than '08, but a lot less pain
• Ran relatively smoothly throughout
• No difficulty walking immediately after the race and back running (easy) the following day

aero2k

Just giving this a bump.

My Edinburgh program is here; it's also well worth looking at the logs of the three most recent boardsies to go sub-3 - Gringo78, Sosa, tisnotover.

It's best to make your own program, however it seems most people who have made big improvements have one interval session and one PMP session per week.

RacoonQueen

What's interesting about that actually Aero is that you put in your diet aswell. Nutrition is a massive part of the marathon yet it's something a lot of people with decent goals don't take seriously enough. Really showed me on Monday in Cork how important diet is or at least sticking to your normal diet, had a pizza on the Sunday evening which I would NEVER do before a race - had it because I was under no pressure for Monday and felt I could eat what I wanted for breakfast I had a fry, again I would never have a fry before a race and I definitely felt that fry about 5 miles in.

aero2k

Yeah RQ,

I'd be wary of posting a detailed look at my diet on other forums, I doubt if I'd live to run another marathon. The main thing for me was not to do anything risky in the last few days, I've had to make Sosa-like pitstops on a lot of recent long runs and I really didn't want that on the big day.

I haven't really figured out what my next move is regarding marathons, but I really feel I could get a significant improvement from better nutrition. For a start, I eat way too much refined sugar, but I'm hungry all the time, and while I take the time to cook reasonably okay dinners, snacking during the day (not to mention 3am on a regular basis) is a disaster, with biscuits, muesli bars, chocolate, bread and peanut butter....I'll stop because I know some people will find it distressing!:)

TakeaBowSon

some really great reading here and thanks to all the sub 3 legends for sharing their wisdom!

For me, I have ran 2 marathons. DCM 09 3.57 and most recently Edinburgh in 4.01. On both occasions I have hit the dreaded wall at circa 19 miles, complete with nausea, dizzyness and heavy legs.

For Edinburgh especially I felt I had trained well. I did an LSR every weekend (incl. 1*20 miles, 1*19, 1*18 and several 15 & 16 milers) and I also did an interval session most Wednesdays (2 miles warm up, 4*1000m @10k pace/600m recovery, 2 miles warm down). All other sessions were easy and my average over the 18 weeks was 30mpw.

On both marathons I hit the 30k mark in around 2.35 so its really the last 6 miles where it is all falling apart. (I did the Connemara half in 1.37 this year)

My question is how do I tame this feckin' wall??!

Its probably worth pointing out that previous to taking up running a year ago I played football for many years where all the training would have been "short and sharp" stuff with no real endurance work except in pre season. I think this is playing a big factor in my dying the last 6 miles...

Any advice would be great - thanks folks!

Krusty_Clown

I think some of the reasons you hit the wall are in your post. specifically:

incl. 1*20 miles, 1*19, 1*18 and several 15 & 16 milers
my average over the 18 weeks was 30mpw.
I also did an interval session most Wednesdays

I think that until you get the endurance right, your speed-work sessions are probably wasted opportunities and would be better served as medium long runs to increase your mileage. A training plan that builds to a single 20 mile run is typically going to get you to 20 miles comfortably, and allow you to plough your way/struggle across the finish line. It's a finishers strategy, rather than a 'run a marathon comfortably strategy'. I think you need to follow a plan that will have you running at least 3x20 mile runs. 15 and 16 mile runs don't serve any purpose other than building up to longer distances. If you're doing too many of these and not enough runs at the higher end of the spectrum, you're losing out.

Additionally your marathon pacing strategy is possibly flawed. You're setting out at 8 minute mile, and hitting the wall before the 20 mile mark. If you set out at 8:30/mile you might finish closer to 3:45 without visiting the dizzy wall!

Some other thoughts:
Did you follow a particular training plan, or did you put it together yourself (link to the plan if you can)?
How long (time) do you spend on your feet for your long runs?
Are you taking on sufficient nutrition for your needs (water/energy)?

TakeaBowSon

Sound advice Krusty and backs up what I have read in the P&D book and elsewhere..

For Edinburgh I roughly followed the HH Intermediate plan (but I fell a bit short on the mileage)

For my long runs I'm on my feet for between 2 and 3 hours. The 20 mile LSR took 3 hours wiith the 19 miler 2.51.

On hydration/nutrition I think I am ok..always have a fuel belt with me.

I'm going to focus on endurance base between now and August 2nd and start the 12 week P&D programme for DCM then and add a couple of miles to the LSRs so that I have 3 x 20 milers.

RayCun

How fast were you running those LSRs, and how fast did you start in the marathons?

TakeaBowSon

RayCun wrote: »

How fast were you running those LSRs, and how fast did you start in the marathons?

LSR's were about 9min/mile and in the marathon I went out at 8min/mile..obviously in hindsight I should have went out easier!

Krusty_Clown

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

I'm going to focus on endurance base between now and August 2nd and start the 12 week P&D programme for DCM then and add a couple of miles to the LSRs so that I have 3 x 20 milers.

I followed that plan recently, but included 1x20, 1x21, and 1x22. I'm not saying that this strategy is really necessary, but by the end of my goal marathon, I reckon I could have continued on for another couple of miles.

The important thing with these runs is to pace them correctly, but at 9 min/mile, you seem to be in the right range.