Question

Tender Hoop

Do you find the word 'fruit' offensive or harmless when referring to homosexuals?

I'm bisexual and used this word as a joke and seem to have offended someone recently.

Annasopra

was the 'joke' offensive?

and also we're not going to discuss why you got banned from the PI forum so I might lock the thread

Dwn Wth Vwls

Even when "fruit" is being used jokingly, it's still in a derogatory way I think. If you used it with someone you didn't know really well I wouldn't be surprised if they were offended.

crotalus667

it does not offend me but then i dont get offended easly:D

Chuchoter

I'd find it offensive no matter what the context.

rainbow kirby

For me, it depends on context really, if a friend is using it in a joking manner I wouldn't find it offensive but if it's being used as an insult then it would be offensive.

Tricity Bendix

If someone called me a fruit I'd likely hit them a box.

Nebit

tbh it depends on the context 'fruit' to me would me cowardly
so if someone said "ah stop being a fruit" because i didnt get on a motorcycle or something i wouldnt be offended.

if i told someone im gay/bi whatever and they said ah so your a 'fruit' i still wouldnt be offended because it would be a joke like response (although i could see others getting offended)

but if a person was walking down the street, didnt know you, and you said "look at the fruit" then its offencive.

Now im rambling but you get the picture:rolleyes:

crotalus667

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

If someone called me a fruit I'd likely hit them a box.

That seems a bit extreem what if it was some thing like "I love you, you fruity git" would you still find it offensive???

Boston

Thread = "Is the offensive thing, offensive". I don't normally do pictures, but, meh.

crotalus667 wrote: »

That seems a bit extreem what if it was some thing like "I love you fruity git" would you still find it offensive???

He'd definitely hit me if I said that to him.

Tricity Bendix

crotalus667 wrote: »

That seems a bit extreem what if it was some thing like "I love you, you fruity git" would you still find it offensive???

Yes, actually.

Iwasfrozen

Tender Hoop wrote: »

Do you find the word 'fruit' offensive or harmless when referring to homosexuals?

I'm bisexual and used this word as a joke and seem to have offended someone recently.

Sure it's offensive to some gay people, just as chink or sambo is offensive to some chinese or black people. But in my opinion these people are just being too sensitive.

So use it anyway, if someone gets offended tell them not to take things to heart.

Dwn Wth Vwls

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sure it's offensive to some gay people, just as chink or sambo is offensive to some chinese or black people. But in my opinion these people are just being too sensitive.

So use it anyway, if someone gets offended tell them not to take things to heart.

Are you taking the piss? People who are offended by racial slurs towards them are just "too sensitive"?

Boston

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sure it's offensive to some gay people, just as chink or sambo is offensive to some chinese or black people. But in my opinion these people are just being too sensitive.

So use it anyway, if someone gets offended tell them not to take things to heart.

It's all part of a process through which the majority dehumanises minorities. When you segregate society and give the undesirable sections labels like chink, fag, sambo etc, you make it easier to discriminate against them at a later stage. You make it easier to see them as something less then human. I'm not a fruit, I'm a person. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then you can just go die in a fire.

Iwasfrozen

Dwn Wth Vwls wrote: »

Are you taking the piss? People who are offended by racial slurs towards them are just "too sensitive"?

No, I'm not taking the piss. People should not be so quick to shout down such terms. For example I have no problem with an English person calling me "paddy" or a black person calling me "crack" as long as I can call them names back.

Any name as long as it is said in good humour is fine by me.

Boston wrote:

It's all part of a process through which the majority dehumanises minorities. When you segregate society and give the undesirable sections labels like chink, fag, sambo etc, you make it easier to discriminate against them at a later stage. You make it easier to see them as something less then human. I'm not a fruit, I'm a person. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then you can just go die in a fire.

You're missing out on what I'm trying to say. Nobody is trying to dehumanise you by calling you "fruit" rather it is doing the opposite, taking down social barriers and making minorities more approachable for the majority.

I mean is the gay term for hetros "breeder" an attempt to dehumanise straight people ?

Nebit

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No, I'm not taking the piss. People should not be so quick to shout down such terms. For example I have no problem with an English person calling me "paddy" or a black person calling me "crack" as long as I can call them names back.

Any name as long as it is said in good humour is fine by me.


You're missing out on what I'm trying to say. Nobody is trying to dehumanise you by calling you "fruit" rather it is doing the opposite, taking down social barriers and making minorities more approachable for the majority.


I mean is the gay term for hetros "breeder" an attempt to dehumanise straight people ?

Iwasfrozen

<SNIP>

No images with inappropriate language. Infracted.

Nebit

Nebit

rainbow kirby

Iwasfrozen, Nebit - lay off the image war please.

Nebit

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Iwasfrozen, Nebit - lay off the image war please.

apologies

Dr. Baltar

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No, I'm not taking the piss. People should not be so quick to shout down such terms. For example I have no problem with an English person calling me "paddy" or a black person calling me "crack" as long as I can call them names back.

Any name as long as it is said in good humour is fine by me.


You're missing out on what I'm trying to say. Nobody is trying to dehumanise you by calling you "fruit" rather it is doing the opposite, taking down social barriers and making minorities more approachable for the majority.

I mean is the gay term for hetros "breeder" an attempt to dehumanise straight people ?

I'm bisexual and I completely agree with you. "Sticks and Stones".
Words like "fag" do not bother me at all. It is only when they are intentionally used to offend me that I do find them offensive.
Me and my lgb friends in college often do not say "i'm bi/gay" we often say "i'm a fag". It's a way of breaking down barriers.
Words like queer and even gay were at a time offensive but were reclaimed just like black people were ****, then they were negroes, then they were coloured and now they are black.

Words change, and people's perspective of them change too. If we are forever offended by simple words we can never move forward, and more importantly, we can never have the craic with our friends!

Sir Ophiuchus

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No, I'm not taking the piss. People should not be so quick to shout down such terms. For example I have no problem with an English person calling me "paddy" or a black person calling me "crack" as long as I can call them names back.

You're missing out on what I'm trying to say. Nobody is trying to dehumanise you by calling you "fruit" rather it is doing the opposite, taking down social barriers and making minorities more approachable for the majority.

Here's the rule, and it's a simple one. People who belong to a specific minority group may use whatever termnology about themselves they wish. This is for a variety of reasons, including the constructed nature of identity and a desire to repossess derogatory terms to remove their power.

You may not do this. Whatever your motivations, you can not (repeat: can not) bring down the boundaries in the way you're trying to do it. You will either come across as naive and privileged or rude and ignorant.

Also, FYI: it is not an obligation of minorities to be approachable for the majority.

I mean is the gay term for hetros "breeder" an attempt to dehumanise straight people ?

No, it's a combination of humour, occasional anger, and an attempt at power reversal. Again, minority groups can "discriminate" like that and it's okay because it's by definition not a threat (traditionally powerless groups aren't).

This video clip (perfectly fine, but maybe not for work) explains it well: http://www.logotv.com/video/misc/162948/kirsten-and-dana-on-straight-jokes-bonus-video-from-rick-steve.jhtml?id=1585574

Dr. Baltar

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

You may not do this. Whatever your motivations, you can not (repeat: can not) bring down the boundaries in the way you're trying to do it. You will either come across as naive and privileged or rude and ignorant.

I disagree. My Muslim friend is 'the terrorist', at times my philipino friend is told to "shut up you chink" and the same applies to myself.
Everyone is ok with it.

Words are not property of anyone and so long as they are not used in an intentionally harmful way I see absolutely no problem.

Aard

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Here's the rule, and it's a simple one. People who belong to a specific minority group may use whatever termnology about themselves they wish. This is for a variety of reasons, including the constructed nature of identity and a desire to repossess derogatory terms to remove their power.

This reminds me of the unspoken "only family may criticise family" rule. For ex., I can bitch and moan about my mother til the cows come home, but it's part of our social mores that nobody else can do so and expect for me to keep listening and talking to them.

Boston

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're missing out on what I'm trying to say. Nobody is trying to dehumanise you by calling you "fruit" rather it is doing the opposite, taking down social barriers and making minorities more approachable for the majority.

I mean is the gay term for hetros "breeder" an attempt to dehumanise straight people ?

Thats just twisted. So calling people fruits,fags,sabbo and chink are all attempts at social inclusion?

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

I'm bisexual and I completely agree with you. "Sticks and Stones".
Words like "fag" do not bother me at all. It is only when they are intentionally used to offend me that I do find them offensive.
Me and my lgb friends in college often do not say "i'm bi/gay" we often say "i'm a fag". It's a way of breaking down barriers.
Words like queer and even gay were at a time offensive but were reclaimed just like black people were ****, then they were negroes, then they were coloured and now they are black.

I think this sort of thing is pathetic. You're an apologist for bigoted hateful people. When someone says "I'm a fag" or "we're fags" my internal monologue says "No, you're a tool". It doesn't impress me, it doesn't make me think you're clever.

Annasopra

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

I disagree. My Muslim friend is 'the terrorist', at times my philipino friend is told to "shut up you chink" and the same applies to myself.
Everyone is ok with it.

Words are not property of anyone and so long as they are not used in an intentionally harmful way I see absolutely no problem.

If I was that Muslim or that Filipino you would no longer be my friend

Iwasfrozen

Boston wrote: »

Thats just twisted. So calling people fruits,fags,sabbo and chink are all attempts at social inclusion?

Yep, by using these words we take away their ability to hurt the person on the receiving end.

Rainbow Kirby wrote:

Iwasfrozen, Nebit - lay off the image war please.

Apologies also. But I really can't stand that face palm picture.

Iwasfrozen

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Here's the rule, and it's a simple one. People who belong to a specific minority group may use whatever termnology about themselves they wish. This is for a variety of reasons, including the constructed nature of identity and a desire to repossess derogatory terms to remove their power.

You may not do this. Whatever your motivations, you can not (repeat: can not) bring down the boundaries in the way you're trying to do it. You will either come across as naive and privileged or rude and ignorant.

Also, FYI: it is not an obligation of minorities to be approachable for the majority.

So it's one rule for a minority such as black people and another for a majority such as white people ? Excuse my ignorance but don't we call that racism ?

Also what about in an area where balck people are in the majority ? Is it alright to then call a black person nigger ?

Boston

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yep, by using these words we take away their ability to hurt the person on the receiving end.

You know this how? From all your years living as an out and proud gay man? Call yourself a fag, call your friends fags and chinks, but don't pretend you're helping anyone. It will only make you feel more the fool when people threat you like a fag, like something sub-human.

Nevyn

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

I disagree. My Muslim friend is 'the terrorist', at times my philipino friend is told to "shut up you chink" and the same applies to myself.
Everyone is ok with it.

Words are not property of anyone and so long as they are not used in an intentionally harmful way I see absolutely no problem.

Would you call a complete stranger who was a Muslim from the middle east a terrorist?

Would you call a complete stranger from the Philippians a chink?

Nevyn

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

I mean is the gay term for hetros "breeder" an attempt to dehumanise straight people ?

No, it's a combination of humour, occasional anger, and an attempt at power reversal. Again, minority groups can "discriminate" like that and it's okay because it's by definition not a threat (traditionally powerless groups aren't).

I disagree with that summation, when that term was flung at me it was certainly being used to belittle and castigate me and given it was screamed in my face while I was with my kids I found it threatening.

Also minority groups do discriminate, they have their down screwed up pecking order.

Annasopra

calling people fruits,fags,sabbo and chink are all attempts at social inclusion?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yep, by using these words we take away their ability to hurt the person on the receiving end.

What planet are you living on? Calling people abusive, offensive and derogatory names is an attempt to include them within society?

Nevyn

I think it's planet troll tbh.

Iwasfrozen

Johnnymcg wrote: »

What planet are you living on? Calling people abusive, offensive and derogatory names is an attempt to include them within society?

Essentially yes. As I've wrote in my last post:

Iwasfrozen wrote:

You're missing out on what I'm trying to say. Nobody is trying to dehumanise you by calling you "fruit" rather it is doing the opposite, taking down social barriers and making minorities more approachable for the majority.

Annasopra

Thread locked - IWF stop behaving like a troll